The rest of MY STORY (also long)

[tojaz]

I really believe that as hard as it is you need to go total NC. It's tough, I'm not denying it, but it really does start to make you look at things differently. You have talked a lot about your part in the breakdown of your marriage, what about her part in it? Have you looked at her behaviours in light of her current ones? Have you thought about how she was in your relationship, maybe things that bothered you on a sub-concious level, now is the time to bring these to the forefront of your mind. Do some research about her behaviours on the web, you may be surprised what you learn about your wife?

 

No one is perfect, none of us, you loved your wife deeply, just as I loved my ex deeply, turns out on closer reflection my love for my ex allowed me to look past a lot of his behaviours and they were a lot bigger and shocking in some cases, than I thought. You remember something they did/said that at the time you felt a bit uncomfortable with, on closer inspection you may just find there was much more to it than you were willing to allow yourself to beleive when it was occuring.

 

Thats kind of the sticking point. She made no outward indications that she was unhappy. The more I read, the more I look back, the more confused I become. She must have been one hell of an actress. She was a very compassionate woman. We had a very young type of love, that really never lost spark or spontanaity (<<spelled way wrong I'm sure) we couldn't keep our hands off of each other for 12 years! I truly want to find it, the thing that connects, the turning point where she started to withdraw. I cannot find it until that day.

I've done plenty of looking into her issues and have discussed them with my counselor. She apparently has a hard time dealing with negative emotions and tends to bury them down and keep them hidden. This makes her passive to avoid conflict and those negative emotions. She then reached a point where she wanted control over her life, to be able to make decisions and shake the passivity. Unfortunately rather then become more assertive, she shifted out of the marriage to avoid the problem. If there is no one to consider, then there is no conflict and she does what she wants. An intact and formerly loving marriage, tossed to avoid possible conflict over things that I wanted for her anyways, things she was afraid to ask for in the first place.

TOJAZ

[myway4077]

Read your thread and i see some of the things that happened in my relationship. I too just asked to help but when told "no i got" left it alone. I think to all the times i heard that wish i would have got up off my lazy ass and helped anyway.

[LisaUk]

Thats kind of the sticking point. She made no outward indications that she was unhappy. The more I read, the more I look back, the more confused I become. She must have been one hell of an actress. She was a very compassionate woman. We had a very young type of love, that really never lost spark or spontanaity (<<spelled way wrong I'm sure) we couldn't keep our hands off of each other for 12 years! I truly want to find it, the thing that connects, the turning point where she started to withdraw. I cannot find it until that day.

I've done plenty of looking into her issues and have discussed them with my counselor. She apparently has a hard time dealing with negative emotions and tends to bury them down and keep them hidden. This makes her passive to avoid conflict and those negative emotions. She then reached a point where she wanted control over her life, to be able to make decisions and shake the passivity. Unfortunately rather then become more assertive, she shifted out of the marriage to avoid the problem. If there is no one to consider, then there is no conflict and she does what she wants. An intact and formerly loving marriage, tossed to avoid possible conflict over things that I wanted for her anyways, things she was afraid to ask for in the first place.

TOJAZ

 

I think I know where you are coming from to an extent. You already know my ex and I were also together from high school. There was no loss of affection or sex at any point, in fact the sex INCREASED in the last year. His leaving came as a shock to me also, certainly there were none of the signs of gradual deteriation of long term relationships.

 

This passivity you describe, avoidance of conflict, why do you think this is so? I'm not suggesting it is the same in her case but certainly my ex appeared passive, one of the things he said after he left was that he smoothed things over to avoid conflict, he said after his first counselling session he had discovered he smoothed things over due to how his parents had raised him.

 

I have since looked at his other behaviours, say we had a discussion about something or even an argument, at the end of the disaggreement we would reach a compromise. He led me to believe we had reached a compromise. Actually he was building resentment. On closer reflection though I remembered other behaviours I had previously discounted. For example, if we agreed on something, I would later discover he had gone behind my back, been underhanded and done it anyway. When I questionned him, he would lie, deny, pretend we hadn't had the conversation in the first place, argue he had never agreed that we compromised and he had never said what he had said.

 

I have since been pointed in the direction of passive aggressive behaviours. So, what appeared passive was in fact not, he was going to go against our agreement anyway and do it in a sneaky way. Since, I have remembered lots more, and a lot of it fits the passive/aggressive behaviour patterns. (If you want more examples have a look at my thread).

 

I'm not suggesting that your wife was passive/aggressive, but I do not believe that there is no explanation for her passivity, you are right, no one is that good an actress! (Kind of how I felt about my ex also). I just think if you take a closer look, you may find more than you first thought was there. Of course I could be completely wrong, just because I have discovered things about my ex that I was blinded to before, doesn't mean the same will be true for you. It was just a thought and suggestion born out of my experiences.

 

A good place to start exploring this possibility if you want to, is to think about the reasons she gave for leaving, her behaviours since leaving and then things that annoyed you a bit about her when you were together.

[tojaz]

Well, theres the dilema. The thing that annoyed me most about her, was her passivity, her unwillingness to share opinions. The reason she left, Her need for power in the relationship and the fact that she couldn't express her opinions. :confused: She left me to try and recapture.... what i was trying to help her recapture...and I'm a controlling person because I pushed her to share her thoughts and opinions???:confused: To be honest, that was the only thing I ever would have changed about her. CONFUSION!!!

TOJAZ

[LisaUk]

Ok, so what about how she hid her e-mails and texts to her ex?

How about the lie she told you on the phone the other day, when she said she had just woken up, you said I drove by your car wasn't there, then silence, then I stayed at a friends, i had to much to drink?

 

Was lying a regular pattern for her?

[tojaz]

No, that was just a result of this situation. She had been completely transparent the whole time, all passwords and account numbers where out there to be had. We shared everything.

TOJAZ

[tojaz]

Read your thread and i see some of the things that happened in my relationship. I too just asked to help but when told "no i got" left it alone. I think to all the times i heard that wish i would have got up off my lazy ass and helped anyway.

 

Sorry MyWay, i didn't see you the first time around, me and the lovely Lisa kind of have a thing going on. (It's the accent I think, love the Brits!)

Don't beat yourself up with hindsight, what if you had done that and she was angry because you thought she couldn't handle it?? I could have done this and I could have done that will kill you, I will do this and I can do that is what you need right now.

TOJAZ

[LisaUk]

Sorry MyWay, i didn't see you the first time around, me and the lovely Lisa kind of have a thing going on. (It's the accent I think, love the Brits!)

TOJAZ

 

LOL

Missed your joke the first time round on helters thread, sorry can be a bit slow sometimes! Doh.

 

Ok so she wasn't a constant liar, like mine! Dunno then, will keep thinking, she never did anything to p**s you off, honestly?

[tojaz]

LOL

Missed your joke the first time round on helters thread, sorry can be a bit slow sometimes! Doh.

 

Ok so she wasn't a constant liar, like mine! Dunno then, will keep thinking, she never did anything to p**s you off, honestly?

 

Well, every relationship has it's pet peeves and such, but nothing I would see as relevant, just little annoyances end such, the passivity always made me uncomfortable, felt like I was controlling her but against my will. Controlling by default I guess.

TOJAZ

[LisaUk]

Fair enough. How are you doing today?

[tojaz]

Getting better. I was pretty bad off the last couple of days, and this morning. Just trying to keep busy before going to my aunts for the 4th. (you know, celebrating kicking the snot out of jolly ole England O.K. that was a bad joke, but i couldnt resist, in a funny mood now. You know I love ya.)

 

Still kind of bugs me that I haven't heard from her after she made such a big deal about worrying about me, but I'm in a pretty good state of mind right now and it dosen't hurt so bad. Looking forward to being with family i guess.

TOJAZ

[LisaUk]

Getting better. I was pretty bad off the last couple of days, and this morning. Just trying to keep busy before going to my aunts for the 4th. (you know, celebrating kicking the snot out of jolly ole England O.K. that was a bad joke, but i couldnt resist, in a funny mood now. You know I love ya.)

 

Still kind of bugs me that I haven't heard from her after she made such a big deal about worrying about me, but I'm in a pretty good state of mind right now and it dosen't hurt so bad. Looking forward to being with family i guess.

TOJAZ

 

You do seem in a funny mood, I did wonder if you had been drinking?

God only knows what goes through their minds Tojaz, God only knows!

[Gunny376]

Sorry MyWay, i didn't see you the first time around, me and the lovely Lisa kind of have a thing going on. (It's the accent I think, love the Brits!)

Don't beat yourself up with hindsight, what if you had done that and she was angry because you thought she couldn't handle it?? I could have done this and I could have done that will kill you, I will do this and I can do that is what you need right now.

TOJAZ

 

:lmao::lmao:

 

Get a room!

 

Made me laugh! Brought up an old memory!

 

Bangkok, Thailand ~ 1988

 

Shore leave on a South China Sea 'crusie"

 

My policy was to find a bar to hang out in during the duriation, first night

"in country" so my Marines could find me in case one of them got into trouble with the local police, or shore patroal? I could then get them back on ship (Soverign U.S. "soil" and deal with it from there?)

 

Had a Staff Sergeant who was kissing and eating each other's ears off with a local Thai girl.

 

He asked my permission to leave with her, (First night out? Everyone stays in the bar! Gunny's rule No. # 1)

 

Its half past dark, I've had myself a couple of San Miguels beers, WTF? He's a Marine SSgt!

 

Yea! Go For it!

 

Half an hour later?

 

He comes back declaring!

 

"That was a dude!

 

We all fell out about the place laughing and crying our eyes out! :lmao:

 

Somethings?

 

You just keep silent about and carry to the grave with you!

 

No referance?

 

Just wanted to give someone a laugh! :lmao:

[Gunny376]

My last post?

 

Made me realize?

 

I've lived a good and fun filled Life!

[tojaz]

You do seem in a funny mood, I did wonder if you had been drinking?

God only knows what goes through their minds Tojaz, God only knows!

 

Well, I wish I could be let in on the secret. No, wasn't drinking. Just seeing some humor for a change and wanted to enjoy it.:laugh: Sorry I didn't keep posting, my power went out.

TOJAZ

[LisaUk]

Well, I wish I could be let in on the secret. No, wasn't drinking. Just seeing some humor for a change and wanted to enjoy it.:laugh: Sorry I didn't keep posting, my power went out.

TOJAZ

 

No worries.

Was nice to see your sense of humour, a different side to you, hopefully a sign of more positive things to come?!

[tojaz]

Oh, it'll come back eventually. Just trying to find little moments where I am enjoying myself. Cracking a few dumb jokes helps with that. I had a decent time last nigh, just sat around watching movies because the rain washed the 4th out, but still a good time. The wife never called, but for the longest time I wasn't noticing until I realized the day had ended. It's just the false concern that bugs me more then anything else right now. That just bothers me to no end that she could seem to care so much one moment then shut it off the next.

Tojaz

[LisaUk]

Oh, it'll come back eventually. Just trying to find little moments where I am enjoying myself. Cracking a few dumb jokes helps with that. I had a decent time last nigh, just sat around watching movies because the rain washed the 4th out, but still a good time. The wife never called, but for the longest time I wasn't noticing until I realized the day had ended. It's just the false concern that bugs me more then anything else right now. That just bothers me to no end that she could seem to care so much one moment then shut it off the next.

Tojaz

 

I know that feeling, during the last few weeks before he left, I was a bit upset one afternoon after we had returned from shopping in town. The converstaion turned to the situation and I think I said something like, I hope we can get past this, I'm so worried about you calling a halt to the wedding plans. He replied "no, please don't worry, I thought just today, when I was walking round the shops with you, I can't end it with Lisa, I really can't, there's just no way". (Of course I said, oh so you have thought about it then, it's an option you are considering? He said, no it's just the counsellor makes me explore every eventuality, he only had 5, 5o min session by the way, hardly enough to make any major decisions). Looking back on this he was showing concern for me, now couldn't care less.

 

Another example, I suffered with panic attacks for years following a stomach illness I had, I was begining to get better anyway before the split, as I lost all the weight, I think my self esteem increased and my confidence, I think it had a knock on effect on my anxiety problems. So this one day I think I was moaning a bit about how lonely I had felt that day being at home alone, he said "oh, you really should think about going back to work." I wasn't ready at that point and said so, he kept on an on, in the end I asked why it was so important to him, I felt he was really pressuring me into something I just wasn't ready for. He said "I'm only saying it out of concern for you, I want you to have a full life, not be at home all day on your own." I said "oh ok, so it doesn't bother you then, it doesn't affect you in some way?" He said, no. After we split, he said you were so boring, you were too dependant on me, you had no life of your own, I want someone who is independant, so I can do what I want when I want and just see them when I want.

 

See it was false concern, it was concern with a hidden agenda. That's how I think of it now, he was always out for himself. Don't know about your wife, it's weird the concern one min then disappearing when her dad comes in to town. Sorry for going on! Realised that was a long post.

 

What movies or as we say films, did you watch? Any good?

[tojaz]

Don't worry about the long post Lisa, I've dumped some novels on here myself. As a matter of fact, this just may be one of those.

 

You should realy read the book I told you about, "Uncoupling" it explains a lot of what was happening there. He was acting out of concern, trying to ease the transition and prepare you for what lied ahead, hence the suggestion of you going back to work. It is a subconcious thing, but it is there. The reason my wifes actions bug me so much, is because it is blatently false. She was concerned until it wasn't convenient for her anymore. She tried so hard to convince me that she was being genuine and once she had shown herself in a good light, she went on her way and never bothered to look back. I should not have expected anything from her, but I did because of her actions. She had a cat that lived for close to 25 years! When it finally became hill, we drove in the middle of the night to an emergency veteranarian. When they told her the cat had to be put down, she was extremely upset. I drove her home and sat up and cried with her all night, held her until she fell asleep. I stayed up all night just to be sure I would be available if she had a nightmare or woke up upset. I did this for several nights, working on caffiene and no sleep. I lost my best friend and she left me in a heap on the floor. I know she is different know, I know we are divorcing, but I expected more from her. I needed more from her. It's just very painful to have to face that any concern she has for me is dependent on when she can fit me in to her other plans. A very hard fact to cope with.:o:o

 

As for the films, just silly old american movies "Top Gun" and "Pet Sematary" Top gun, I remembered being in awe of as a child and just had to laugh at how ridiculous it was now, a very fun time. I have my nephews today, it kind of helps yet in some ways it hurts, they have a lot of questions that I'm not quite ready to answer. Have fun driving today, don't kill anybody.

TOJAZ

[LisaUk]

He was acting out of concern, trying to ease the transition and prepare you for what lied ahead, hence the suggestion of you going back to work.

TOJAZ

 

I can see why it would appear that way from my description, but this kind of conversation happened a lot over the years, way back in fact. I remember a one such conversation as long as 6 years before he left. I just don't think that's why he said it or that it was a sign of what was to come, this particular conversation occured before we set the date to marry, seems like an awful lot of effort if you know you are going already, what's the point? He had plenty of opportunity to say he didn't want to marry and he actually approached me to set the date. I have looked into signs of gradual deteriation and going back over our relationship, they just weren't there. In addition after he left I asked specifically if my panic problems were involved in his decision, he said definately not, then about 5 weeks after in another conversation he said they were. His reasons have changed direction more than the wind does, he is so contradictory, I just don't buy it, any of it, 8 years is way to long to be engaged if you are unhappy, it's way to long and just too much of a coincidence, for this to be anything other than commitment problems.

 

I'm glad you are having fun with your nephews, it must be a nice change for you.

[tojaz]

I can see why it would appear that way from my description, but this kind of conversation happened a lot over the years, way back in fact. I remember a one such conversation as long as 6 years before he left. I just don't think that's why he said it or that it was a sign of what was to come, this particular conversation occured before we set the date to marry, seems like an awful lot of effort if you know you are going already, what's the point? He had plenty of opportunity to say he didn't want to marry and he actually approached me to set the date. I have looked into signs of gradual deteriation and going back over our relationship, they just weren't there. In addition after he left I asked specifically if my panic problems were involved in his decision, he said definately not, then about 5 weeks after in another conversation he said they were. His reasons have changed direction more than the wind does, he is so contradictory, I just don't buy it, any of it, 8 years is way to long to be engaged if you are unhappy, it's way to long and just too much of a coincidence, for this to be anything other than commitment problems.

 

I'm glad you are having fun with your nephews, it must be a nice change for you.

 

Commitment problems are probably at the heart, but the process began long before he said anything. He just didn't know. He took the time to prepare himself and weigh his optons before he let you in on the secret. He may have been struggling with this for some time. Same with my wife, she says now that she was unhappy even before we married, yet we did! I don't understand everything that is at play, or the reasons why, but I think I see how the process works.

TOJAZ

[LisaUk]

Commitment problems are probably at the heart, but the process began long before he said anything. He just didn't know. He took the time to prepare himself and weigh his optons before he let you in on the secret. He may have been struggling with this for some time. Same with my wife, she says now that she was unhappy even before we married, yet we did! I don't understand everything that is at play, or the reasons why, but I think I see how the process works.

TOJAZ

 

See, I just don't get this, the reasons he gave AFTER we split, kept changing. I really think he bailed due to commitment phobia and used any excuse he could to justify it to himself. Kind of like if I was commitment phobic and I suddenly decided that the fact he worked long hours now bothered me enough to leave when it hadn't before. See, the crux of his reasons is he felt we had always been incompatable, I just don't see how it can take anyone 18 years to figure that out. When I look at things in isolation of each other, I can see what you are getting at, but when I look at the whole picture, including the info I have on his childhood, it just doesn't add up.

 

Same with what you have described with your wife, I don't believe anyone would marry if they were really unhappy. There has to be more to this?

[LisaUk]

OK, so I'm thinking out what you said! Maybe? But that means both you and I needed to be mind readers right? Our other halfs must have been exceptional actors. Hmmm, I need to think about it more. I still think it's too long and too much of a coincidence with my ex.

 

I just had a look at the first chapter of "Divorce Busting" that you recommended on someone elses thread, very illuminating to say the least, I'm going to try and get a copy, although I'm guessing in my situation it's too late to make a difference with my ex? I will still get it though, for the future. I think it's about time I got myself more educated about relationships, I have a certain amount of non-lay person knowledge as I have a BSc in Psychology, but perhaps it is time for some more, I never want to go through this experience again.

 

Have you had a look at any info on mid life transition/crisis? I've just started to delve into it, it makes interesting reading.

[tojaz]

Early on i had suggested a possible midlife/transition crisis and it did seem to fit the bill. I even suggested that to her (paid dearly for that). I'm not sure there isn't something too that. She saw something she had missed and had to find a reason, to lay blame anywhere but herself. She was not open about discussing the subject and had panic attacks anytime we did, yet I had them when we where apart due to the stress. I still think it would be worth exploring, but she's not hearing it. I truly think she feels that her life will be instantly better as soon as she is rid of me. She couldn't tell me enough how good it felt to sign the papers when she filed. I had suicidal thoughts for the first time in my life that night, spent a long time just staring at my gun and believing that i had hurt her enough to feel that way. I'm glad I am a stronger person then I thought.

TOJAZ

[LisaUk]

Early on i had suggested a possible midlife/transition crisis and it did seem to fit the bill. I even suggested that to her (paid dearly for that). I'm not sure there isn't something too that. She saw something she had missed and had to find a reason, to lay blame anywhere but herself. She was not open about discussing the subject and had panic attacks anytime we did, yet I had them when we where apart due to the stress. I still think it would be worth exploring, but she's not hearing it. I truly think she feels that her life will be instantly better as soon as she is rid of me. She couldn't tell me enough how good it felt to sign the papers when she filed. I had suicidal thoughts for the first time in my life that night, spent a long time just staring at my gun and believing that i had hurt her enough to feel that way. I'm glad I am a stronger person then I thought.

TOJAZ

 

You're not alone, I freaked my best frined out when I was still in London, I was going under a train, I really thought about it, she stopped me, thank God, NOONE is worth that, remember that. It scares me how in the US you all own guns, no one has guns here.

 

It's strange how when you talked to her about midlife transistion she had panic attacks. My ex was having panic attacks also. He said a couple of things consistent with mid life issues, as well as stuff consistent with commitment issues. Mid life wise, he began the odd behaviours around his 31st b'day, really depressed, talked about getting older, not having achieved stuff. Then it continued over the next 2 years, the odd comment, then when it all went weird those last 5 weeks, he made comments about how he hated his job, he just wanted a change (he had been facing redundancy), he felt old, he felt he didn't want to get old, then I want a motorbike etc etc.

 

I think it may be benefical to you to continue your reading about it, it's strange that both of us have been with our high school sweathearts and there are some similarities to their behaviours.

 

I find it strange that if someone is really unhappy they would stay for so long and even more bizare that they would get married?