Plan H (healing)...

[Reggie]

Shocked, I am happy you are getting support. Many cheaters are very messed up people and others that are more objective than the BS, having no "love' for them, are often wondering WTF the BS ever saw in him/her to begin with.

See, cheating is just the tip of the iceberg, a symptom of a greater disorder.

DNUI, I will bet that once you have some distance, temporally and geographically, from your WW, your blinders will come off and you will remember other forms of abuse. You've alluded to these, the lack of committment to family, the placing herself and her career advancement at the forefront(in effect , letting you know she views you and the kids as less"entitled((entitlement is a huge issue with the disordered)).

Others have already seen this but you, being her spouse and in love, rationalized it.

4 OM, whew, she is a serious case of personality disorder.

[DNU1]

But if your STBX is continuing her coaching with Dr Harley, she'll have a golden oppor2nity 2 figure out why she did the things she did, and how she can improve herself and maybe be qualified 2 have healthy relationship at some point in the fu2re

 

-ol' 2long

 

 

I really hope she continues with Dr. Harley. If I could waive my magic wand just one time for her, I would wish that she figure out herself, improve herself and never have to walk down the affair road again (on either side -- as a WS or BS). And continue to be a good mother to our DDs. And heal. And help me heal...

 

Okay, I need a magic lamp with three wishes + a few...not just one

[jmargel]

Just why do you need her to help you heal? She is the reason and the cause for all your pain. Yes she cheated on you but it's not her job to get you past all of this.

 

Also I haven't read one post where you talked about your own faults, things that you could have done better to not only improved the marriage but your own self well-being and that of your children. Now is the time to do this reflecting. Take something positive out of this.

 

And trying to get more information out of her would be nothing but pure pain. You are already divorcing her, so finding out she's been with 3 or 4 more men is not going to do anything but aggrivate the situation even more. What i'm trying to say is to not loathe in the self-pity. Part of the healing is making goals and accomplishing them to move on with your life. What have you set up for yourself in regards to that?

 

Do you have any work lined up? What do you have planned in the short term for your future?

[DNU1]

Just why do you need her to help you heal? She is the reason and the cause for all your pain. Yes she cheated on you but it's not her job to get you past all of this.

 

Even though we are in divorce, I truely want her to help herself and learn from this. She's counseled with Dr. Harley and it seems to have had a big impact on her. I counseled with him also and he believes, as I do, that if she can figure out how/why these affairs happened, it can help BOTH of us heal.

 

Also I haven't read one post where you talked about your own faults, things that you could have done better to not only improved the marriage but your own self well-being and that of your children. Now is the time to do this reflecting. Take something positive out of this.

 

Very good point. I'm stubborn and when my STBx asked me to do things I really wasn't on board with, I would stall, make excuses, drag things out. I know that was a love buster. I'm a natural helper and would often drop everything I was doing to help out my brother, family members, or friends. I know at times that bothered my STBx, cause it seemed like I was more interested in helping them then her.

 

A strange note tied to this one...even though we are in divorce, I continue to help her (with computer, software, picking up furniture from store, doing laundry when she was still living here, etc.) I believe "helping" is a strong EN for me. My IC says I really need to stop doing this...and I'm working on it. She is the mother of our children and will always have a special place in my heart...I do wish her well, and I hope that we can remain civil after this is all over.

 

I could be a better communicator. I tend to hold in my feelings so as not to hurt others.

 

I let people walk all over me and need to stand up for myself more.

 

I'm a neat freak and I know that irked my STBx at times. I leave the toilet seat up.

 

I think the majority of things that irked my STBx was that she felt she was expressing her concerns and I didn't hear her, or wouldn't listen fully. Issues relating to domestic support, helping kiddos with things like homework, baths, etc. I just didn't see the problems she was trying to express to me. I beat myself up on those things to this day.

 

 

Part of the healing is making goals and accomplishing them to move on with your life. What have you set up for yourself in regards to that?

 

That's one of the things Dr. Harley talks about in his steps to healing...coming completely clean with all affair related information that the BS may not know. Coming clean will help both the WS and the BS heal.

 

Do you have any work lined up? What do you have planned in the short term for your future?

 

Short term right this minute is to take care of our DDs and make sure this transition of their Mom leaving the house goes as smoothly as possible. They are priority #1! And #1a...

 

I've had resume out there for people to make changes / suggestions for a few weeks now. IC, judge, atty, family, friends, and even me...we all know that I need to get back in the work force. I've contemplated this for a while being a stay-at-home, but I didn't want to force my DDs in to daycare/afterschool care. I really felt that me being there for them was whats best for our family.

 

Now that I'm going to be a single Dad I need to be a good role model for them and get a job, be as self-sufficient as I can.

 

And it will help me have more a sense of self-worth, help me grow, heal and become a better person.

 

Ideally I would like to land a job at a University in administration. Realistically I know that is a long-shot at best. I will do ANYTHING I can to support my DDs. I will continue to pursue web design and photography work, but as secondary jobs. I enjoy them, but the income stream in these areas is inconsistent, and my DDs need solid, stable income from their dad.

 

I hope I have answered your questions.

[DNU1]

Strange day today. Felt okay yesterday...but today something just doesn't seem right. I dunno...

 

My support systems continue to amaze me. People calling just to see how I'm doing. No one really bangs on STBx...just ask how I'm handling things.

 

It's easy to focus on the DDs...they are handling this with grace and poise well beyond their years. The hard thing is focusing on me. More later...fish to catch!

[Darth Vader]

Strange day today. Felt okay yesterday...but today something just doesn't seem right. I dunno...

 

My support systems continue to amaze me. People calling just to see how I'm doing. No one really bangs on STBx...just ask how I'm handling things.

 

It's easy to focus on the DDs...they are handling this with grace and poise well beyond their years. The hard thing is focusing on me. More later...fish to catch!

 

 

The Calm before a possible storm? Is it a feeling of like some trouble is coming your way, or that something is missing?

[Reggie]

Hang in. Lots of ups and doowns the first year out. You did the right thing. She is a serial cheater. Very poor prognosis and you and the kids do not need to be exposed to this any longer. It must have been a helluva couple years with all the lying and abuse.

[DNU1]

The Calm before a possible storm? Is it a feeling of like some trouble is coming your way, or that something is missing?

 

I'm not sure what storm could be coming? Doesn't feel like trouble coming my way...just feels like something is missing. Namely, her.

 

It honestly felt like a long weekend with her on-call this past week. When she was on-calls she would spend the weekend in other town, in the company apartment (had to be close to the hospital).

 

Last night she had kiddos at her apartment. I will have them all weekend. Got lots of fun stuff planned. Not sure what she's doing, but that's none of my business any more. She had originally talked about coming to neighbors pool on 4th, but later said she wouldn't be attending.

[DNU1]

Hang in. Lots of ups and doowns the first year out. You did the right thing. She is a serial cheater. Very poor prognosis and you and the kids do not need to be exposed to this any longer. It must have been a helluva couple years with all the lying and abuse.

 

Thanks Reggie: Ups and downs for sure. It's almost daily that I swing up and down. I know I'm doing the right thing for me.

 

Looking back on last two years I honestly didn't see a lot of intentional abuse. It was more like passive...not quite as touchy-feely as earlier in our marriage, not a lot of compliments from her towards me, just small things I dismissed at the time. Looking back with 20/20 hindsight allows me to nit-pick each and every little thing. Honestly, it's only been the past year, since our family vacation where she met OM#3 that I've really noticed problems in our marriage.

 

I think that's why it's soo hard for me to wrap my head around DrX/OM#4...since that happened two years ago. I had no clue we were even in dangerous water back then.

 

Hard. So many unanswered questions. I will probably never get the answers I'm longing for...

[In Like Flynn]

I see on the other site that your wife seems to be taking a closer look at herself and the why's. The timeline of events I think was also helpful for her to actually see it in writing. I would also direct her to survivinginfidelity.com due to there helpful and active wayward section. Just a thought.

[DNU1]

I see on the other site that your wife seems to be taking a closer look at herself and the why's. The timeline of events I think was also helpful for her to actually see it in writing. I would also direct her to survivinginfidelity.com due to there helpful and active wayward section. Just a thought.

 

 

Yes, I was pretty impressed with her post today. The majority of the information I already knew. She had told me about kissing and whatnot with Dr.X in lounge, but not detail like that.

 

I will tell you as I read that post my gut was in knots...part of me was expecting some new information to surface. It was a relief that she posted pretty much what I knew of our history.

 

I do see her taking a closer look at herself and struggling to understand why. That's good. I do wish her well.

 

While I would like to guide her to another site, my IC, friends, family and even Dr. Harley said I must stop helping/rescuing her. She's got to do this on her own. THat's the only way she is truely going to understand herself and heal herself.

[Reggie]

Yeah, she has to do this on her own. I'd say she is a longshot. She has put you through enough. Her childhood sounds like a fairytale compared to many folks and they did not cheat like this. Big genetic component.

[DNU1]

Realized something the other day after reading my STBxs long history-of-relationship post on Mb.com

 

Little history: she's cited her resentment of me and my not meeting domestic support needs as a condition that lead to the affairs.

 

I was SAHD and not taking care of house, kids, etc., like she wanted. Said she confronted me about her feelings, but I'd see her as joking and blow it off, or I'd get defensive. Either way the issue never got resolved like she wanted. She stopped asking and grew resentful. I never realized that was a major lovebuster for her until Nov 08.

 

There were times in the past six months when I felt like she was partially blaming me for the affairs. That my not meeting her ENs for domestic support, etc., were partially responsible for her affairs.

 

(Note: after talking to Dr. Harley she takes full responsibility for her actions and the affairs. She doesn't blame me for the affairs.)

 

 

She mentioned in her thread about putting her job above all else and how that really bothered me. And how she never realized her work schedule and putting job 1st was an issue for me until recently.

 

I see striking similarities here: one spouse upset about a lovebuster, trying to communicate their feelings, the message not getting through, eventually communication breaks down and the issue never resolved.

 

How come I never resented her for putting her job first, above family? How come I never really even considered this a lovebuster until she pointed it out to me? Was I that afraid of her? Was I that much of a doormat?

 

This is something I need to explore more...

[Reggie]

Sounds like she is a poor communicator. the hallmark of a cheater.

[soserious1]

Realized something the other day after reading my STBxs long history-of-relationship post on Mb.com

 

Little history: she's cited her resentment of me and my not meeting domestic support needs as a condition that lead to the affairs.

 

I was SAHD and not taking care of house, kids, etc., like she wanted. Said she confronted me about her feelings, but I'd see her as joking and blow it off, or I'd get defensive. Either way the issue never got resolved like she wanted. She stopped asking and grew resentful. I never realized that was a major lovebuster for her until Nov 08.

 

There were times in the past six months when I felt like she was partially blaming me for the affairs. That my not meeting her ENs for domestic support, etc., were partially responsible for her affairs.

 

(Note: after talking to Dr. Harley she takes full responsibility for her actions and the affairs. She doesn't blame me for the affairs.)

 

 

She mentioned in her thread about putting her job above all else and how that really bothered me. And how she never realized her work schedule and putting job 1st was an issue for me until recently.

 

I see striking similarities here: one spouse upset about a lovebuster, trying to communicate their feelings, the message not getting through, eventually communication breaks down and the issue never resolved.

 

How come I never resented her for putting her job first, above family? How come I never really even considered this a lovebuster until she pointed it out to me? Was I that afraid of her? Was I that much of a doormat?

 

This is something I need to explore more...

 

A doormat over her career? You need to get real on this point DNU1, you knew going in, right at the start that this woman was going to be a Doctor and that her career choice would involve the job being put first for a considerable number of years.

 

Demonize her for affairs, don't demonize her for the consequence of life choices you guys made together.

In terms of the fiscal, breadwinning stuff your ex did what you guys agreed she's do.. she completed years of training and she became a successful MD and the courts will now require her to continue to support you and the children in the style to which you've been accustomed.

 

She's scum because she cheated.. but not because she went full throttle ahead to become a successful breadwinner. By your own admission, your Ex not only was the bread winner but she also helped upkeep the home and was involved with day to day matters there. Don't rewrite marital history, it won't serve you well in your recovery. Even the devil needs to be given his due and your wife did contribute around the house at least as much as a sole bread winner husband would have.

[DNU1]

SS1: I hope I'm not coming across as trying to re-write our marital history. I don't think I'm trying to do that. Just looking back on our marriage with 20/20 hindsight...and maybe the rose colored glasses off.

 

It's interesting to note that after I handed her the divorce papers she found a lot of time during the ensuring work weeks to meet with attys, even re-arranged her work schedule to see her IC a few times. I really can't compare her dedication to work with other docs cause I don't know how they handled those things like sick kids, etc.

 

Yes, she did do her share and MORE of domestic support things. And she did work her tail off to become the success that she is today. I have a ton of respect for what she has accomplished.

 

Granted, when I was a SAHD that's my job...to take care of kiddos. But when I was full-time at university it was just expected that if a kid was sick that I would take off from work. But you know, my bosses were always, "family first...go home & take care of kiddos." Her's were not that way.

 

Maybe I am trying to re-write things a bit here. Maybe this is my way of saying look, "I didn't like the fact that you put your job as top priority...but I didn't grow to resent you and go out and have an affair."

 

I think you are right in that I need to stop trying to figure her out, trying to help her. I need to concentrate more on the DDs health and welfare and healing myself.

[soserious1]

SS1: I hope I'm not coming across as trying to re-write our marital history. I don't think I'm trying to do that. Just looking back on our marriage with 20/20 hindsight...and maybe the rose colored glasses off.

 

It's interesting to note that after I handed her the divorce papers she found a lot of time during the ensuring work weeks to meet with attys, even re-arranged her work schedule to see her IC a few times. I really can't compare her dedication to work with other docs cause I don't know how they handled those things like sick kids, etc.

 

Yes, she did do her share and MORE of domestic support things. And she did work her tail off to become the success that she is today. I have a ton of respect for what she has accomplished.

 

Granted, when I was a SAHD that's my job...to take care of kiddos. But when I was full-time at university it was just expected that if a kid was sick that I would take off from work. But you know, my bosses were always, "family first...go home & take care of kiddos." Her's were not that way.

 

Maybe I am trying to re-write things a bit here. Maybe this is my way of saying look, "I didn't like the fact that you put your job as top priority...but I didn't grow to resent you and go out and have an affair."

 

I think you are right in that I need to stop trying to figure her out, trying to help her. I need to concentrate more on the DDs health and welfare and healing myself.

 

My point to you is this.. as a couple you guys decided that her career path would be medicine.. now you're a sharp guy, at some point along the way it had to be at least mentioned that Doctors keep insane hours? Likewise you

chose a career in education.. a field more noted for being family friendly in terms of it's hours.

 

Basically, from the onset you guys agreed that she would be the big money earner.. to then sit around resenting and demonizing her because she didn't breadwin as well as perform like a stay at home mother just strikes me as revisionist history.

 

Btw, of course she's going to schedule time to meet with her lawyers and such, why wouldn't she, you've certainly met with yours.

 

She cheated on you multiple times and for that you're divorcing her and rightly so... you somehow though seem driven by a need to be perceived by people online and in real life as 100% the perfect husband and father and your wife as 100% horrible

 

Sitting around shiat talking her about all aspects of your marriage while also holding your hand out for an alimony check that's going to be produced via her hard work strikes me as sort of counter productive.

[DNU1]

My point to you is this.. as a couple you guys decided that her career path would be medicine.. now you're a sharp guy, at some point along the way it had to be at least mentioned that Doctors keep insane hours? Likewise you

chose a career in education.. a field more noted for being family friendly in terms of it's hours.

 

Yes, agreed. I knew going in that her hours were going to be crazy. And I knew my career would be more family friendly.

 

Basically, from the onset you guys agreed that she would be the big money earner.. to then sit around resenting and demonizing her because she didn't breadwin as well as perform like a stay at home mother just strikes me as revisionist history.

 

What not many people understand is this forum is pretty much the ONLY place where I can vent my true feelings about our marriage and relationship.

 

I do not vent 100% of my feelings to my family and friends. I do that to protect my kiddos and in some ways to protect my STBx.

 

I know that my STBx will always be the mother to my children. I know that at some point in time my family will have to be around my STBx and my children at the same time. I'm trying to make that transition as smooth as possible for my kids.

 

So I filter what I say about my STBx to my family. And I probably defend her still to this day to family and friends. My IC keeps telling me I need to stop this. I need to move forward. But shutting off 20 years of feelings is a hard thing to do in just 2+ short months since d-papers day.

 

Btw, of course she's going to schedule time to meet with her lawyers and such, why wouldn't she, you've certainly met with yours.

 

She cheated on you multiple times and for that you're divorcing her and rightly so... you somehow though seem driven by a need to be perceived by people online and in real life as 100% the perfect husband and father and your wife as 100% horrible

 

Oh, I'm no where near the perfect husband. I understand that, always have. I think someone here (might have been you) asked what my faults were...and I hopefully addressed that. And no, she was not 100% horrible.

 

I think that was why it was so hard for me to live under same roof as her for past 2 months...cause I would see all the nice/good things she did for kiddos, me and even our pup.

 

No, I would never call her a horrible person.

 

Sitting around shiat talking her about all aspects of your marriage while also holding your hand out for an alimony check that's going to be produced via her hard work strikes me as sort of counter productive.

 

Not trying to be counter-productive. I'm just trying to understand. I'm just trying to heal myself.

 

And I do not think I'm sitting around talking chit about her. I'm not here calling her names, bashing her every move, talking trash about her, saying I wish her a horrible future.

 

No, on the contraray...I wish her well. I want her to understand herself better, to continue to be a good mom to our DDs, to heal herself and never have to experience the pain of affiars in her future, from either BS or WS perspective. I would never wish that on ANYONE.

 

The easy thing would be to become a bitter-Bill (old co-worker who would bash his ex any time given the chance...). It would be very easy for me to surround myself with STBx-bashers, talk smack about her to drain my lovebank and fuel my fire in this divorce. That's the easy way out. Demonize her and hate her.

 

But that's not me. That's not who I am. I want her to heal...and I want to heal.

 

By examining my past I hope to understand it better. I hope to learn from my mistakes. This divorce is the hardest thing I have ever experienced in my life. More horrible than the pain of DDays...because my marriage of 18+ years is ending. My soul-mate, my best friend in the world will no longer be living with me, will no longer be my wife.

 

I'm just trying to heal. And I'm posting here to vent the feelings and thoughts that I cannot vent via other support outlets. I hope this makes sense to you. D.

[lostsunsets]

I don't think you portray her as a 100% horrible. And I can't see how anyone who has read multiple threads here and other sites could think that. In fact, I can't understand why you are so forgiving. This woman has destroyed your family. Just how exactly are you to feel about someone who was supposed to be as one with you? I think you have been the height of tolerance in your dealings with a cheating spouse. You did all the work in trying to save your marriage and she did everything to destroy it. I can't recall a single point (in the posts I've read, yours or hers), that would lead anyone to think that her actions have been anything less then atrocious.

[Chrome Barracuda]

Yeah I mean it's like she just acted like she had no conscious when making decisions, like sleeping with other men while your married made no difference.

 

What woman in that mindframe has that justification to just do what they want and not think of consequences and after 4 OM!! she finally realizes damn I ruined my family???

 

WTF you think! and even after all of this and during the divorce is she or is she not still talking to the Doc OM???

 

She hasnt learned anything!

[Reggie]

The logistics of the marriage, the work schedules, her absence etc have nothing to do with the infidelity. Doc don't work any harder or longer than folks in many other professions. You abided by the agreement, one you both decided would be of mutual benefit. Now, with alimony, you can reap some of the benefits of having sacrificed, as well.

Look, DNUI, your wife has a lengthy history of cheating to get the source of narcissistic supply her disorder demands. It predates the SAHD decision. If anything, your staying home made her life less stressful. I raised two boys, one severly disabled while practicing law full time and I would have loved to have had the type of support a stay at home parent provides. She had many other options to deal with any conflict that arose about your domestic duties, but she chose cheating. That is because it is a method that is well known to her. You could have been in line for homemaker of the year and it would not have meant a bit of difference. This is a serial cheater with deep issues, very broken.

[soserious1]

By examining my past I hope to understand it better. I hope to learn from my mistakes. This divorce is the hardest thing I have ever experienced in my life. More horrible than the pain of DDays...because my marriage of 18+ years is ending. My soul-mate, my best friend in the world will no longer be living with me, will no longer be my wife.

 

I'm just trying to heal. And I'm posting here to vent the feelings and thoughts that I cannot vent via other support outlets. I hope this makes sense to you. D.

 

 

From where I sit this is the heart of the matter, the very thing I also grapple with..

 

This woman wasn't your best friend DNU1, she wasn't/isn't capable of being truly a friend to anyone, even to herself. People can say she was broken or that she is simply evil but the fact is she isn't capable of being anybody's friend.

 

The more important question for you (and for me as I try to recover) is this, what need inside you allowed you to decide to put on blinders and allow this person into your inner circle of most trusted people?

 

As I move forward I'm coming to understand that my chances of recovery are better when I let my ex and his misdeeds fade into the background and focus more on why I bought into his act, why did I believe an illusion?

 

My Ex and yours for that matter could be any guy/gal, if I don't figure out, face and fix my own internal landscape I run the risk of just repeating my disaster of a marriage over and over again.

 

My ex showed me who he was many times along the way and your ex did the same, yet for some reason neither of us chose to believe them. IMHO, figuring out why we did that is probably the most productive option.

 

I wish you well in your recovery.

[Reggie]

Well said,soserious. Many of us dealing with the disordered need to address these issues. Clearly, a healthier person would have never tolerated this.

DNUI, the nice thing(if there is one) about the types of issues you face, the lack of a sense of entitlemnt, the denial etc , is that these issues are very amenable to therapy and they hurt you, vs other people as the intractable personality disorders do.

We all need to be aware that there are people like this, the NPDs or BPDs out there. Many of us had never heard of them before this venture into the infidelity world.

So, now you know. Look closely at any person you are interested in in the future. Beleive it whan they show you who they are, as your wife did many years ago.

[DNU1]

The more important question for you (and for me as I try to recover) is this, what need inside you allowed you to decide to put on blinders and allow this person into your inner circle of most trusted people?

 

 

Wow, that question hit me hard this morning. As did Reggie's comments. Oh, I've pondered that question repeatedly over the past six months...it just seems like today it's another little step forward.

 

I learned long ago that the easy thing is to examine others...the more difficult thing is to examine one's self (some Socrates quote that I'm sure I could have said better...)

 

It's easy to say, "she did this to me," or "she messed up this marriage / family / etc." or "she is to blame"...but you bring up a very good point. Why did I want to recover this marriage 15+ years ago...and again in December? Why didn't I walk after DDay#1, #2?

 

Why did it take DDay#3 for me to say, "enough."

 

I've got some idea. I'm going to journal more and explore this in my mind before posting my thoughts. Thanks SS1 and Reggie...and everyone, for your insight and feedback.

[Reggie]

I've dealt with this exct same issue and have had a lot ot therapy addressing it. Like most things, it often goes back to childhood stuff. I was raised in an abusive, alcoholic home where expressing anger or standing up for oneself resulted in being brutalized.

So, a couple things were going on.

First, I was drawn to an abuser, as it was familiar to me.

Second, I avoided the much needed conflict and just sucked it up and took it.

Additionally, there were kids to consider. I noticed that my XW's would not hold back onmeeting out abuse and anger even in front of the kids. They simply raged regardless and I was not willing to engage in front of the kids. I withdrew and slept seperately.

DNUI, in most cases, if a person stands up to an abuser that is personality disordered, it does not change their behavior. Rather, it causes the relationship to end sooner(which is often a good thing).

With your wife's disorder, there was nothing you could have done to have made her get help and change. But, you would have been out of the relationship sooner. Perhaps you felt, on some level, you did not desreve more.That is what you need to look at.

With distance and time you will see that you put up with way too much for way too long. Then , you need to figure out why and start practicing not letting folks do this type of thing to you. You have to get comfortable with accepting that you need to walk away and lose the relationship if the person is nuts.