Plan H (healing)...

[Darth Vader]

(Note: after talking to Dr. Harley she takes full responsibility for her actions and the affairs. She doesn't blame me for the affairs.)

 

 

Too little, too late! The damage is done to your mind and your heart! She can't ever take back blaming you for her affairs!

 

Sounds like Dr. Harley can see through much of the Bullcrap that WW's use in attempting to justify their actions/affairs.

[DNU1]

I've dealt with this exct same issue and have had a lot ot therapy addressing it. Like most things, it often goes back to childhood stuff. I was raised in an abusive, alcoholic home where expressing anger or standing up for oneself resulted in being brutalized.

 

My home life was pretty good. Never saw my parents fight...but that could be a bad thing. Sure they disagreed, but Dad didn't talk much, still doesn't. Mom's pretty talkative. Seemed like an all-american family to me growing up.

 

I think my childhood baggags comes from being the fat kid who had to wear ortho shoes in a time when tennis shoes were booming. Club foot and needed corrective shoes. Being the fat kid wasn't fun.

 

So to get accpeted i became the kid that helped out as much as I could. Mr. nice guy.

 

Never really had girls interested in me until college. I remember meeting three other girls at about same time I met STBx. One had been raped and pretty much told me when we were just getting to know one another (ran from that one), another was a crazy/talkative/drive-you-nuts kind of gal (Hmmmm, no), and another had dated my brother (deal breaker for me...don't date anyone who has dated your relatives). The winner was this beautiful blue eyed shy, quiet girl whom I thought I might be able to help. Started dating, rest is history...now the STBx.

 

So, a couple things were going on.

First, I was drawn to an abuser, as it was familiar to me.

 

My mom, sister and brother are all "helper" type people...they still want to help my STBx to this day! I'm the "giver" and "helper" in the truest sense of the words.

 

Second, I avoided the much needed conflict and just sucked it up and took it.

 

I've learned I'm not great with conflicts. Get nervous and forget my arguments easily...get flustered. Want to be the "nice guy" who finds a compromise, who works with people, not against them. Want to be the guy everyone likes.

 

Additionally, there were kids to consider. I noticed that my XW's would not hold back onmeeting out abuse and anger even in front of the kids. They simply raged regardless and I was not willing to engage in front of the kids. I withdrew and slept seperately.

 

STBx never really abused me in the literal sense. It was more silent treatment and belittling me in subtle ways, nit-picking, guilt trips kinds of things.

 

She pointed out on her mb.com thread that there are times when she's on a high and she's wonderful to be around. She will light up a room. But when she's on a low, it's short one word answers, drags the whole room down with her. When she's on a low, watch out. Her mom can be similar...and STBx realizes that.

 

With distance and time you will see that you put up with way too much for way too long. Then , you need to figure out why and start practicing not letting folks do this type of thing to you. You have to get comfortable with accepting that you need to walk away and lose the relationship if the person is nuts.

 

I know that I need to concentrate on me now. I can't help her any more. I really need to look deep inside myself for answers to why I took her back 15 years ago...and 6 months ago.

 

I think I'm still to close to the situation. It's still a rollercoaster. One day she can be saying how sorry she is...and I feel like she's healing...then a few days later she snaps at me over a something small...and I feel bad.

 

I've just got to keep taking this one day at a time...

 

Keep telling myself to remember the words of Chuck Noland (Tom Hanks) in Castaway..."I've got to keep breathing...cause you never know what the tide might bring in..."

[Reggie]

DNUI, the silent treatment is considered a very severe form of emotional abuse and many disordered folks substitute it for the raging. It is just as brutal.

[Culthbert]

DNU1,

 

Hi - I was a long-time poster at mb.com (under the name CuthbertCalculus), and I was following your situation over there.

 

I think that a lot of your own issues can have a lot to do simply with your type of personality. I am very much like you - I am also a "giver". In my case, I actually have an emotional need to help people and provide for my loved ones.

 

In your case, you may have taken that to an unhealthy extreme - but on the other hand, your giving nature is likely hard-wired into your personality and is simply a part of who you are. It isn't necessarily a dysfunction, or the result of a dysfunction. It just is.

 

I am an INFP - if you're familiar with Myers-Briggs Type Indicators. From reading your posts, I wonder if you might also be one. My personality type is driven to meet other's needs - and it is supposedly very difficult for my type to leave a bad relationship. I don't have personal experience with trying to leave a bad relationship, as the only relationship I've ever been in is with my wife - and I lucked out when I found her. (Edited to add): INFP's also HATE conflict.

 

Anyway, I think you will simply by nature have a difficult time disengaging yourself from your WW. Leaving her may be the right thing to do - only you will know that - but even as the right thing to do, you may well find it difficult just because of the way you are hard-wired. And being a giver may always be a part of you, even as you strive to balance it out with making sure you take care of yourself.

 

In short, I don't see any dysfunction on your part - you've simply married someone who is broken, and that situation is what is at the root of your pain. I think you won't have much trouble once things settle down into a new life, and I think your only worry for future relationships will be to make sure you choose someone who is mature and emotionally stable.

[DNU1]

In your case, you may have taken that to an unhealthy extreme - but on the other hand, your giving nature is likely hard-wired into your personality and is simply a part of who you are. It isn't necessarily a dysfunction, or the result of a dysfunction. It just is.

 

It's like the scorpion and frog tale...It just is who I am.

 

I am an INFP - if you're familiar with Myers-Briggs Type Indicators. From reading your posts, I wonder if you might also be one. My personality type is driven to meet other's needs - and it is supposedly very difficult for my type to leave a bad relationship. INFP's also HATE conflict.

 

It's been years since I took MBTI...and it's strange in that if I took at work, with work attitude in my mind I was an extrovert. When I took once at home i was introvert (?). Can't for life of me remember what I was, but meet others needs, hate conflict...YEP! That's me.

 

Anyway, I think you will simply by nature have a difficult time disengaging yourself from your WW.

 

Yep. Even with her living elsewhere it's hard for me to disengage. I still find myself naturally drawn to helping her, to being nice and, well, helping her.

 

Leaving her may be the right thing to do - only you will know that - but even as the right thing to do, you may well find it difficult just because of the way you are hard-wired. And being a giver may always be a part of you, even as you strive to balance it out with making sure you take care of yourself.

 

That's so very hard right now. I truely think one of my top ENs is to "help others." My career path backs up that claim...never really worried about $$$, but really worried about what effect I could have on people -- helping them develop, helping them grow, etc.

 

It's hard for me to be selfish. Just not wired that way. When a neighbor asks for a hand I'm quick to drop everything and help out. Friends, family, etc., same deal. I'll help out.

 

Going to take time to adjust. One day at a time. One day at a time.

 

Thanks culthbert. Appreciate the words. D.

[Culthbert]

It's like the scorpion and frog tale...It just is who I am.

 

You need to make sure, next time, that you don't end up with a scorpion.

 

Look, plenty of women out there appreciate guys like you and I. I am extremely fortunate in that my wife truly appreciates me, and while I enjoy giving and giving to her, she takes care to give back. And when she had the motive and the opportunity to stray, she stayed faithful, even though she couldn't stand me and wanted to divorce me at the time.

 

The girl I carried a torch for in college, she was another story. She knew how I felt about her, and liked having me around while she went out with guy after guy. She knew how to push my buttons and seemed to think it was funny to get me all upset. I'd have jumped at the chance to be with her, but circumstances pushed us apart after college, and I'm much better off for it.

 

It's been years since I took MBTI...and it's strange in that if I took at work, with work attitude in my mind I was an extrovert. When I took once at home i was introvert (?). Can't for life of me remember what I was, but meet others needs, hate conflict...YEP! That's me.

 

There are places online where you can take the test... and I've learned an awful lot about how I tick. It's really helped me understand my strengths and weaknesses, so I know what to emphasize and what needs compensating for. And it's really helped me to understand how my wife thinks, and how my kids think. (My son is exactly the same as I am, and my daughter is so different it's fascinating.)

 

That's so very hard right now. I truely think one of my top ENs is to "help others." My career path backs up that claim...never really worried about $$$, but really worried about what effect I could have on people -- helping them develop, helping them grow, etc.

 

You have GOT to be an INFP. INFPs generally don't care about money, and put great emphasis on helping others grow! I listen to my wife, and I let her push me into my current job, which is higher $$$ than my last one. I'm glad I did, because it is a great, challenging job, but the money is incidental to me. And one of the things I really enjoy about the job is helping my assistant develop the skills and mindset to succeed in the field.

 

It's hard for me to be selfish. Just not wired that way. When a neighbor asks for a hand I'm quick to drop everything and help out. Friends, family, etc., same deal. I'll help out.

 

There's nothing wrong with that - by doing so, you are not only fulfilling an EN of your own, but you are also making a real impact on other people's lives. You just need to make sure you aren't taken advantage of.

 

By the way, if I am right and you are an INFP, than it is likely that you don't give yourself enough credit for all the positive things you do and for the impact you have on those around you. That's another characteristic trait.

[DNU1]

By the way, if I am right and you are an INFP, than it is likely that you don't give yourself enough credit for all the positive things you do and for the impact you have on those around you. That's another characteristic trait.

 

Yep, spot on!

 

I'm off to take that darn MBTI again....

 

It got shoved down our throats so many times when I worked in University that I really got sick of people talking about it. Time to re-visit...

 

Thanks C!

[DNU1]

ISFJ.

 

Hmmmm...More later. Need to get kiddos up and running for bkfast.

[Culthbert]

ISFJ makes sense. One of my wife's friends is ISFJ, and I've noticed a lot of similarities in the way ISFJs and INFPs behave, although the underlying thought processes and motivations are very different.

 

ISFJs are very, very loyal... and despite that loyalty (or maybe because of it), they tend to be taken for granted. Which is what your wife did to you all those years. And now that she's lost you, she is realizing just what kind of a man you are and how irreplacable you will be.

 

Like you, I hope she can get her act together. I've seen her MB thread, and I think she is sincere, but I don't know if she will have the strength of character to keep working through it when the going gets tough. I'm hoping she will, and I hope she gets the kind of encouragement she needs... but I know some MBers are fond of the "2x4", and those kind of confrontational methods don't always work for everyone.

 

I still stand by everything I said about your giving nature - that's a feature, not a bug, but your challenge is to not allow yourself to be taken advantage or... or taken for granted. And, yes, these are qualities that many people CAN and DO value and appreciate.

[taylor]

I took the test last year at a marriage recovery seminar and discovered that I am an INFP..the giver.

 

And it's true. My top emotional need is to FEEL NEEDED. My self-esteem and sense of purpose sky-rockets when I feel we have been able to make a positive impact on someone else's life. I need that to feel good about myself. Material things mean little to me.

 

But it was this kind of personality that resulted in problems in my marriage and got me into trouble (EA).

 

My husband is a very strong, independent man. His self-esteem is driven by his ability to be self-sufficient. To him, weakness is having to reach out to someone for help.

 

So, you see, our personalities definately collide.

 

At times when I would try to help him in some small way...pamper him when he was sick...try to get him to open up to me after the death of his father...even try to help figure out an error in balancing our checkbook...he would push me away (or so it felt that way).

 

I used to tell him all the time, "I feel like I could get up and walk out the door and you would never even notice I was gone. Your life would go on as usual, not even skipping a beat."

 

When our MC asked me what hurt me the most about our marriage I told her, "I don't feel needed." She asked why that hurt. I told her that when I don't feel needed, I don't feel loved.

 

I got into trouble when I met the OM because he was the poster child of NEEDINESS and he was quick to latch on to me..the GIVER. I thrived on helping him in any way I could. The problem with that is I ended up forming an inappropriate attachment to him (weak marriage, weak boundaries)..and the rest is history.

 

Being an INFP has its good points and its bad points...

 

Hope all is going as well as can be expected for you, DNU. Still following your posts.

[imagine]

 

Like you, I hope she can get her act together. I've seen her MB thread, and I think she is sincere, but I don't know if she will have the strength of character to keep working through it when the going gets tough. I'm hoping she will, and I hope she gets the kind of encouragement she needs... but I know some MBers are fond of the "2x4", and those kind of confrontational methods don't always work for everyone.

 

Hi DNU my PC is briefly working.

 

Nice to hear from you again Culthbert. I would like to agree especially with the part of injecting 2x4's unnecessarily into the post.

 

DNU are you still plump or did gym fix that?

[Culthbert]

Hi imagine!

 

I don't post on MB anymore because of the over-prevalence of 2x4s, but I did see your post naming me as a "vet" - that made my day!

[DNU1]

For some reason today is a hard day...today is a sad day. Emotions today.

[Culthbert]

Did you see her today?

[Reggie]

What is the timetable on finalizing the divorce, DNUI? It gets easier, once that oredeal is over. Still tough, but easier. You've got the kids, right? That can help.

You've been put through the wringer and it will take a good long time to heal. You are normal.

[DNU1]

Culthbert: No, did not see her today. She has kiddos this weekend, so I will see her on Friday.

 

Reggie: Timetable, well, my atty says for the next 30-60 days both attys will do the discovery thing (am i using right words?) They will spend our $$ trying to find out things about us. Says they will ask where I have applied for jobs, interviews, etc. I think we have a long, long way to go. Hopefully we can move through with mimimal expense and hassle.

 

I was impressed with STBx this week...STBx and I found a common ground regarding health care expenses and wording on temp order. That was good.

 

Yes, kiddos are with me in the house. STBx living in apt.

 

Note: I wonder if I'm on the BFF's "don't talk to" list. Wife's BFF lives up street and is normally pretty chatty and social, stop when she drives by to chat. Just small talk stuff. For about past two weeks all I get now is a smile and a wave as she drives by.

[Reggie]

Yeah, I got the cold shoulder from some of XWW's good friends who had always liked me. Not sure why, but I suspect they got a different version of what transpired.

[seibert253]

Yeah, mine fed her friends and family load of crap and they bought it hook, line, and sinker.

 

Two of our "mutual friends", would never believe she would do anything to hurt me. Until I showed them copies of the emails. Yeah, Yeah, I know, I know, but at the time it worked well. They became valuable allies. One still won't talk to my wife. Oh well, that's the price you pay.

[DNU1]

The thing is I considered wife's BFF to be a good friend of mine. I had long talks with her during our recovery (Dec to May), about the affair, about STBx, about me, etc. I even had some talks with STBx co-worker. I bared my soul to them in hopes that it might help our recovery, help save our marraige.

 

And right after I handed my wife d-papers her BFF was the FIRST person I talked to. I knew wife would need her friendship for this long, difficult journey. And I knew right then that my friendship with BFF was going to have to end. BFF needed to pick sides and she needed to be my STBx's friend, not mine. So I distanced myself gradually.

 

And I did my best to vent my frustrations, my feelings on the annonomyous message boards. I didn't want to vent my true feelings to family and friends for fear that some how, some day my DDs might hear how horribly hurt I was. Yes, I was trying to protect her (STBx).

 

Then my wife found mb.com and saw my feelings, my posts, and I'm sure she was angry, upset, hurt. And I'm sure she showed or told BFF and co-worker what I was saying. Those were my true feelings at the time. I'm pretty sure my STBx said some things she's not very proud of...but I have no way of seeing those things. I have no way of knowing. I feel she's got me at a disadvantage...she's looked inside my soul and seen my feelings written on an annon message board.

 

Part of me wants to talk with BFF and co-worker and explain to them my rationale for posting on annon forums and not talking to friends/family. But part of my knows that will fall on deaf ears. They are her friends and what I say will be viewed in a certain way just because I'm divorcing her...and I'm the enemy.

 

I will just have to live with that. My biggest fear is the impact on our DDs. They are good friends with BFFs children. I know BFF would never say bad words about me directly to her children or mine. I just hope that our DDs don't overhear some words that are not meant for their ears...

 

 

 

STBx and I talked today and I really get a sense that she's sincere in what she says. She is setting up times to counsel with Harley via phone and her IC here in town. That's good. She needs support and guidance in this journey.

 

Yesterday was hard. The rollercoaster was on the downward slope. Hopefully today it will rebound and move upwards. Going to catch a move and hang out with my brother tonight. Should be good. Tomorrw hanging out with a few friends who have been through divorce. They are good to talk to and keep reminding me to focus on DDs and taking care of myself.

[imagine]

DNU,

 

I agree with her that talking to another woman is disloyal. This does not live up to your name on the other board. But I also understand your situation and it does form part of exposure.

 

I'm glad that you understand the friendship dynamics. Hang with your brother and have good time. Leave the ladies right now. Continue to focus on your kids.

 

By the way, does your missus know about this thread? I wrote you about this post over there. I hope she did not pick it up!

[DNU1]

I agree with her that talking to another woman is disloyal. This does not live up to your name on the other board. But I also understand your situation and it does form part of exposure.

 

I'm a little confused here. Are you saying my talking to women can be disloyal? I'm just a little confused...please clarify. Thx.

 

I'm glad that you understand the friendship dynamics. Hang with your brother and have good time. Leave the ladies right now. Continue to focus on your kids.

 

Hanging with my brother is good...he and friends do a great job getting me out and helping me stay "lawfulgood." I want nothing to do with women-folk right now...and I'm still officially "married" in my book. Nuff said.

 

Although last nite probably put some doubt in STBxs mind. She stayed at house with kiddos (as part of our agreement, she can stay here Fri/Sat when it's her weekend with them...I got no problem with that). I was out with buddies and had some drinks...nothing too much, but no way am I even putting myself behind wheel with drinks in me. Absolutely no DUIs for this prairie dog.

 

Left my truck and had buddy drive me to brothers house, as it was close to bar and close to buddies house. Less driving that night and next morn when I retrieved truck. Scared the living chit out of my brother! Didn't call, just used my key and thought I could be quiet coming in. Was quiet, but his wife had bionic ears. Felt really bad, but we all got good laugh in morning.

 

Texted STBx @ 3:00 AM to say at brothers. Figured her phone would be off and she would see text next morn. WAsn't off and she texted me right back saying "ok." Woke her up...felt bad. SUCK.

 

 

By the way, does your missus know about this thread? I wrote you about this post over there. I hope she did not pick it up!

 

She's said nothing and gives no indication she knows about this thread. And even if she did, I got nothing to hide. The anger stage is going away...I don't feel that rage any more. I don't think there is anything here that her atty would want to use against me.

 

Still a little anger here and there, but now really it's sorrow. It's been a rough week. Lots of emotion. It was good, however, to get out last two nights, people watch and have a good time with friends.

[DNU1]

Difficult day again today. When does this end...

 

"I've got to keep breathing...cause you never know what the tide might bring in" Castaway.

[imagine]

I'm a little confused here. Are you saying my talking to women can be disloyal? I'm just a little confused...please clarify. Thx.

 

 

Talking to any woman about your problems in marriage - other than a hired councilor - is not a good idea. I could certainly understand it if you were exposing your missus, but hopefully her husband will be listening too.

 

This is another way to tell ladies that you " are available".

[Dexter Morgan]

Difficult day again today. When does this end...

 

 

when you are finally rid of her and are out there with other women, dating and having the time of your life!!

[DNU1]

I've posted that I am done with Mb.com for a while. I'm a helper and keep getting sucked in to others troubles, while at same time ignoring my own. It is paralyzing me.

 

I need to be done with that...and I need to focus on me and my needs! I need to focus on my DDs. So I will stop reading her posts, her thread and stop watching all the other drama there.

 

I may still post here occasionally, but in reality I need to move forward and focus on taking care of myself. I need to fix me. No one can fix me but me.

 

D.