Taking a break from physical contact but...

[NoIDidn't]

You affair is continuining if you continue to interact with him in ANY way besides 'work'. The fact that you two are discussing where to live and all --- when he hasn't even DECIDED if he is leaving his wife?

 

I can't believe you are standing there waiting in the wings to see what decision he makes....

 

I agree. Just because you've cut out the physical part doesn't end it. The A is over when you aren't hoping for him to end up with you and you aren't engaged in his life in any way.

 

I'm sorry, but this guy is not high on the list of respectable humans. What he is doing and you are encouraging him to do to his W is awful.

[jj33]

MWC I have given this a lot of thought. You have intimated that there are exentuating circumstances. Fine. If he is a decent human being he will not be part of the "me" generation and walk away from whatever that is in 2 weeks when some minor portion of whatever is happening is past.

 

He will put his personal desires aside and be there for his wife. People expect that when their world is crashing down around them, their spouse will be there. Not that when 15 things go wrong, their spouse will say wow this is not a great time to tell you, but I cant wait any longer, by the way, I am out of here. best of luck to you, you can always call on me as a friend.

 

I think you, for your own karma and self respect, may need to walk away. Not to punish him or to hurry him up but to say look, if I were her, I would hope you wouldnt leave me now. I dont want to be that person and I dont want you to be that person.

 

Be there for whatever is holding you for the next little while. Be there for 2 or 3 years if you need to be. Do the right thing. And if we are meant to be together we will be. If we arent, we wont.

 

Dont be a party to him ditching his W if she needs him now. Whatever the problem is, 2 weeks is not enough time to fix it. He needs to put himself aside for the moment and think of the woman he married.

 

Excuse me for being harsh but the more I think about it, the more it seems to be the right thing to do.

 

Either that or go on being the OW while he does what he needs to do.

But dont pull him from his family at a time when he is needed.

 

It may be that it is right for him to be there for 2 or 3 years. She is his W. She is not someone he has dated for a few months.

 

If you go along as planned, you have blood on your hands. Its not clean. And its not the way you should start your future together.

[PhoenixRise]

Total NC is impossible because we work very closely together. He's not a monster guys, jeez. Even his wife sees through his phoney a-holeism because that's just not who he is.

 

Anyway he did explain the house. I live in a different city (45 min away) and closer to work. He gave lots of reasons why staying in that house was better for us. It worked for me, and we had talked about the possibility of moving in together in a year, in my town. If he bought a house here now, it would be alot of pressure on our relationship to flourish at a time where we really need to take things slowly. He still considers moving - so he was not adamant about staying in that house (as long as he gets his dog )

 

I had been thinking if he stayed there, and she left, it would be easier for him to let her come back. He assured me she is very stubborn and for both of them, when it's over it's over. And know what? I left my H, he stayed in the house, and I NEVER had the urge to go back.

 

Our affair is not continuing. When they are living apart we will reassess our feelings and see if we can have a relationship.

 

 

MWC how do you KNOW what his wife sees through? MM is intentionally and cruely messing with her head. Are you in contact with her and she said to you she is not falling for his act?

 

Seriously MWC,

 

Your MM thinks it is OK and you condone it, Him Messing with this woman's head because it is more convienant for HIM to be able to keep the house? Seriously?

 

AND you talk about the wife like she is some kind of persistant panhandler regarding her ease at coming back if SHE left. Right now, MM is giving her every reason to think he wants the marriage, that is, when he is not deliberately being a a$$ to drive her away. At one time he evidently loved her. At one time he evidently made promises to love, honor and cherish her. If his feelings have changed.....fine. But she does NOT deserve to be treated as less than human just because MM changed his mind.

 

I am sure that if you let the wife know about your existance and that MM has been actively and maliciously gaslighting her so you and he can have the house and the dog you will not have to worry that she will ever want to come back.

 

 

You are condoning some evil acts here MWC.

[jj33]

The thing is by saying if you dont act in 2 weeks I am leaving, you are urging him to leave so as not to lose you.

 

If something is very wrong in his family, then this is not the right action for you to take.

 

Would you want to be in her shoes?

 

I know its painful being the OW, and I know you thought and hoped for a long time that you two would be together and the prospect of only having to wait 2 more weeks for it to happen is tantalising, but its not the right way for this to happen.

 

its not right. And you going along with him is not right.

 

There is no easy answer here but clearly his heart is pulled in the direction of doing the right thing. If you werent in the picture he would continue doing hte right thing.

 

Dont be that person pulling hinm away when he should be at home.

 

Yes sometimes people marry the wrong person. Yes sometimes people find their true love later in life, but sometimes we have to put ourselves second and respect our committments.

[Reggie]

it's the emotional connection we share that is going to be hard to let go of.

 

After MM's mc session the other night he told me it sounds like BS is leaving. But then he told me some things in their conversation that went back and forth, like she made a list of what she wants and needs to do, like splitting bank accounts and stuff, but then made more demands on him, and ended up staying. He's not sure if she meant she was staying that night, or for good.

 

Some of those demands he is already doing as part of keeping the peace. So basically the only thing she knows of that he won't do is quit his job. I think she is going to realize that is too much to ask and then keep clinging to this marriage. He will never admit to being unfaithful, so she will continue distrusting him one minute and living in denial the next.

 

I told him I have to start thinking of me now. We are stopping the physical part of our affair outside of work. In a week, if she hasn't made final plans to leave then I will stop all contact outside of work. Even if their M ends, we aren't going to run to each other. So this way, I am still prepared to give him the time and space he needs if they separate.

 

None of the NC will change our feelings about each other, we both know that. Time will not change that until I decide to move on. If things haven't changed a month from now, or if they don't look like they'll change by the end of summer, then obviously he feels there is still something left in his marriage and that is the reason he can't end it. He doesn't want to move out of the house, but if things are still up in the air in a couple of months, he will have to decide whether to stay or give up the house and leave. If he stays, and she won't move out, then I am done.

 

I think this stopping the PA will help me. btw he has no kids, m for 9 yrs.

 

I'd give him at least 9 or 10 years to make the decison. He sounds very courageous and honorable and you owe him that. We all have only one soulmate, right? So, why not wait?

[SidLyon]

Eeeww

 

This situation is disgusting.

[whichwayisup]

Your MM thinks it is OK and you condone it, Him Messing with this woman's head because it is more convienant for HIM to be able to keep the house? Seriously?

And you're OK moving into their house once she moves out and they're divorced? You're not concerned with what their neighbours will think? Honestly, if I were in your shoes, last place I would want to move into is their house.

 

Anyway, a-hole or not, this guy is gaslighting his wife and he's acting passively, hoping she'll be the bad guy and get things moving along. This sounds like most MM and MW who say "they will leave" but don't actually leave, or end up divorcing.

 

I mean, how great will YOU feel knowing she kicked him out, she divorced him and he didn't intiate it and atleast be honest, end it correctly and honestly.

[MWC_LifeBeginsAt40]

JJ you have some very welcome thoughts. Some of you are expressing unwelcome opinions. The "affair" is over. There is no pressure on him to leave in two weeks, two months, or two years.

 

I am not having any contact with him outside of work. The only way I will be with him romantically in the future is when I feel comfortable that his actions match his words that his M has ended. He emailed this to me:

 

"I made up my mind a while ago on what I want for myself, and what I need to do to make me happy. I just need to find the right plan to make it all happen, and I will be making that happen in the very near future.

 

I can promise you this. I never want to go back to being in limbo ever again. I like what you said today. The affair is over, and the next time we make love will be the start of our new relationship. If that happens next week, or next month, or next year I know it'll be worth waiting for. "

[MWC_LifeBeginsAt40]

And you're OK moving into their house once she moves out and they're divorced? You're not concerned with what their neighbours will think? Honestly, if I were in your shoes, last place I would want to move into is their house.

 

Anyway, a-hole or not, this guy is gaslighting his wife and he's acting passively, hoping she'll be the bad guy and get things moving along. This sounds like most MM and MW who say "they will leave" but don't actually leave, or end up divorcing.

 

I mean, how great will YOU feel knowing she kicked him out, she divorced him and he didn't intiate it and atleast be honest, end it correctly and honestly.

 

I never said anything about moving into their house. I would only move in with him if we bought a new house in my town. If they never split up then that's life. We ended our affair so that he could end it honestly.

 

I know alot of you don't condone affairs period but it's not like this has been going on for years and we have to do something because we got caught. The only reason we are taking action is because we decided we want to explore our feelings without him having to live a double life and without me having to share him. Neither of us has felt this close to anyone before. Not even me! For me to say that, and feel this way.... wow....

[whichwayisup]

He will never admit to being unfaithful, so she will continue distrusting him one minute and living in denial the next

.

 

How is she living in denial if he is gaslighting her?

 

I do think, no matter how much you love him, you certainly are only seeing this from his side. You are aware that he more than likely is omitting certain things about what is truly going on, probably to protect you..Kind of like what he is doing to her, lying/omitting to protect her. Problem is, HE needs to STOP that dynamtic all together, so IF he does actually divorce, give him alot of time ALONE to change his daily thought process and dynamtic, get out of affair mode thinking etc -

 

The thing is, if he is wanting to hang onto the house, that probably means he's not going to sell it either. So, he'll have two houses? that is if you two end up living together later into the future?

[MWC_LifeBeginsAt40]

No, the house isn't an issue. He will sell the house.

 

The denial I spoke of is her denying that their marriage is in serious trouble, and he is seriously thinking of leaving, and she acts like all he needs to do is follow her rules to show her that he is committed.

 

In an ideal world, yeah people should take a year of being all alone after separation. I don't know very many people who do. I also know several people who are still with the person they started dating right after the M ended or shortly thereafter and in some cases before.

 

There is soooo much more to this than I can post here. How much he and I have shared, how deep our thoughts go.

[whichwayisup]

But obviously HE isn't communicating this TO her. See my point as in him gaslighting her and not being totally honest? If he were to tell her "I'm completely miserable in this marriage and I don't see this working out, even if we try MC, I need to leave." then maybe she would 'get it'. But it sounds like he's being passive and hoping she'll figure it out herself.

[SidLyon]

...

 

The denial I spoke of is her denying that their marriage is in serious trouble, and he is seriously thinking of leaving, and she acts like all he needs to do is follow her rules to show her that he is committed.

 

...

 

Sorry if my opinion is unwelcome to you. You seem very critical of the BW saying she is clinging to the marriage and in denial about how bad the marriage is and you seem contemptuous of her because she doesn't even know her H is being unfaithful.

 

I think you are being very unfair and particularly disrespectful of her. For goodness sake she is not in denial about her H's infidelity; she is being seriously deceived and manipulated and you are complicit in it.

 

I don't wish you all the best but I do wish the best outcome for her - and no I don't think it's your place to determine what that is.

 

S

[Reggie]

Dollars to doughnuts these two cases of arrested development are at each others soulmate throats in no time once they see each other in the light of day.

[fooled once]

Anyway he did explain the house. I live in a different city (45 min away) and closer to work. He gave lots of reasons why staying in that house was better for us. It worked for me, and we had talked about the possibility of moving in together in a year, in my town. If he bought a house here now, it would be alot of pressure on our relationship to flourish at a time where we really need to take things slowly. He still considers moving - so he was not adamant about staying in that house (as long as he gets his dog )

You did say you would live in HIS house; the house he and his wife shared.

 

And you are taking this LIARS word for what his wife is SAYING or FEELING. You are deciding things for her without even KNOWING her.

 

The denial I spoke of is her denying that their marriage is in serious trouble, and he is seriously thinking of leaving, and she acts like all he needs to do is follow her rules to show her that he is committed.

Maybe she doesn't KNOW her marriage is in serious trouble. How would she know that when her HUSBAND is still there? Sure, he has some apartment which YOU even said isn't a HOME, it is a place to put his head.

 

And HOW have you stopped the affair when you two continue to discuss what you two will be doing in the future?

 

In a week, if she hasn't made final plans to leave then I will stop all contact outside of work. Even if their M ends, we aren't going to run to each other. So this way, I am still prepared to give him the time and space he needs if they separate.

yet then you imply that you will get together right after he moves out

In an ideal world, yeah people should take a year of being all alone after separation. I don't know very many people who do. I also know several people who are still with the person they started dating right after the M ended or shortly thereafter and in some cases before.

Then

 

It's not her terms that he is deciding if he can live with and money isn't an issue. I think he is more afraid of being alone. I think NC is a great way to test that because if he keeps dragging his heels, and it's either laziness or his fear of being alone that keeps him there, then he's not the man I want to be with.

And

 

Maybe I need to choose my words more carefully. He wants to separate. He would "prefer" if she left because he likes his house and wants to stay in it. He doesn't want it to appear that he kicked her out.

So he wants to pretend he is this stand up guy? The guy who didn't kick his wife out? The guy who is more worried about a freaking HOUSE than supposedly being with his true soulmate? And of course, no one can know he had an affair; but since he is so afraid to be alone, how can he live on his own? Oh that's right, you are going to move into her home after he makes her so miserable she leaves. Real nice guy

 

I am the one he loves, and there are no guarantees so he is hanging onto his home, but he is just wishing his W wasn't there.

then

 

Okay, newsflash: I got an email today. He "figures" they will go for another counselling session in a couple of weeks, if they make it (his words) and things are still going according to planned (she is making demands, he is not meeting them) and all should be tied up by the end of summer.

So he loves YOU, but just in case you two don't work out, he wants the house. OH, and he is going to marriage counseling, but not really to work on his marriage, but to pretend to his wife that he is working on the marriage and then in weeks/months, he will announce the marriage isn't working, but since he doesn't want to "kick her out" ..... what if she says she wants more time to work on things? Will he then come clean and let her know he has been having an affair and he wants the house and you are ready to move in so can she pack her crap and get out?

 

In the last month he pretty much hasn't changed his story.... that being the BS realizing and accepting that it's over, and agreeing to move on... and having everything wrapped up by end of summer.

How is she realizing the marriage is over (his words) but still going to marriage counseling?

 

I am peeved that he can't take the first step. I'm pretty sure he has realized there is nothing left for him there. A month ago, he couldn't say that so I am going to ask him that. I don't want our future to depend on her decision... another good statement

So why are you deciding what is happening in his marriage? he doesn't even seem to know what is happening.

 

He knows you are pissed and now stopping having sex with him. Don't you think he is going to feed you all kinds of crap to keep you hanging on? He knows he can wear you down with the promises of the future.

 

THe words in his last email that upset me the most were "I think we'll be going back to a session in a couple of weeks, and if we last that long I'll be saying there that I can't give enough effort to try and that should be the end of things. So I think this will end up on track to be all wrapped up by the end of the summer, and there should even be some time to enjoy the summer with you and I :)" I

So again, instead of being a man and stopping this farse of a marriage, he is continuing to lead his wife to believe he is working on things. Then he is going to shock her by announcing in marriage counseling -- in a couple weeks -- that the marriage is over and then he will have to hope she is humiliated enough to move out; because he won't kick her out, because he wants the house.

 

I told him I need him to begin the process of moving on if he wants to be with me.

And again you are giving him ultimateums. He doesn't like those. He doesn't want to lose you, but he doesn't want to give up his wife. He knows you won't really stop the affair with him.

 

On June 28, you posted

 

No contact outside of work, and no talking about it at work.

Then the next day you posted:

As I said, I have stopped the affair until he ends his marriage and they are living apart. We had a series of long talks at work today.

How exactly are you stopping the affair?

 

And finally

 

I had been thinking if he stayed there, and she left, it would be easier for him to let her come back.

So which is it? He has to leave the house he loves or he needs to leave the house because he wouldn't be able to not let her come back if she wanted to? So he DOES love her because if you don't love someone, you wouldn't want them to come back. Yet.....

 

Sorry, I more

 

I am not having any contact with him outside of work. The only way I will be with him romantically in the future is when I feel comfortable that his actions match his words that his M has ended. He emailed this to me:

How exactly again are you not continuing the affair? Since you said on June 27 that you were stopping the affair, how many times have you talked to him outside of work? How many times have you emailed with him? How many times at WORK did you discuss the affair?

 

I think you are in denial about it all. I think you want it to work so badly, you are turning a blind eye to it all.

 

I am not saying you are wrong or bad, but you aren't being honest with yourself.

 

He isn't being honest with anyone -- you, his wife, the therapist.... I am not sure if this immature 32 year old knows the truth anymore. I think he does care about you. I think he does care about his wife. You are telling him to pick on and I don't think he is ready to pick one. And you are telling him "if you don't pick me by the end of the summer, I am done".

[Mary3]

People who are a--holes are NEVER being phony.

 

 

 

Nope... I hope he doesn't get the dog. Dogs deserve to be around good people.

 

Wow !.....I've been reading this story and my stomach feels like its been kicked because of some of the things OP believes about this Married Man...

[whichwayisup]

All I can say, and (sorry stamps) read stampdaddy's threads.

 

No matter HOW MANY intimate and close conversations you've had with him, things can change very quickly and not in your favour.

 

It's your life, you're going to do what you're gonna do, but believing ALL that he's telling you is putting all your eggs in one basket. You've read enough on here to know that things do NOT go according to plan, let alone actually really happen (meaning divorce).

[Mary3]

JJ you have some very welcome thoughts. Some of you are expressing unwelcome opinions. The "affair" is over. There is no pressure on him to leave in two weeks, two months, or two years.

 

I am not having any contact with him outside of work. The only way I will be with him romantically in the future is when I feel comfortable that his actions match his words that his M has ended. He emailed this to me:

 

"I

made up my mind a while ago on what I want for myself, and what I need to do to make me happy. I just need to find the right plan to make it all happen, and I will be making that happen in the very near future.

 

I can promise you this. I never want to go back to being in limbo ever again. I like what you said today. The affair is over, and the next time we make love will be the start of our new relationship. If that happens next week, or next month, or next year I know it'll be worth waiting for. "

 

Thats another way of saying ( Translation ) : Everything I EVER did was for myself , the affair with you , the lying to my wife , the sex....

My happiness will ALWAYS come first. Its all about me .... me ,.... me ~

 

I have no real * plan * but make you think so but of course my real real PLAN is to make sure I don't end up without all my financial assets ; house , car . dog .ect.

 

I dont really have a plan * in the near future * thats a vague blanket term for seeing how long I can get you to hang on :

 

I don't know if you would ever put up with me in the future being that I am a major azzhole but just in case : whats a week . a month ,. a year ???

[jj33]

MWC - you misunderstood what I meant. When I said let him do what he needs to do, I thought he had serious family obligations to attend to. He doe not. You are blinded by affair fog. Obviously nothing we can say is going to change your mind. On the one hand you say you are out, on the other you talk about your plans with regard to the houses.

 

You say shes in denial and you wont even admit to yourself that he is gaslighting her.

 

Cheating aside, someone who would do that to her would do that to you. Its controlling, manipulative, passive aggressive, I dont have the time to list all the bad things it says about him. No matter what good things you have seen in him at work, these are bad things.

 

And for what? A dog? How old is he? 8? The mere fact that he holds onto the idea of the dog means he is still "in it". She isnt kicking him out the door so far as you know, so if he wants to leave, why isnt he just leaving. There is nothing real preventing him from getting out if he wants to other than the fact tha the is an azz, with no disrespect to the donkeys of this world.

 

You dont want to see it. But you have come this far in ending your own marriage. Why would you hook up with someone like this? There are lots of people who are superficially charming and who have loads of good qualities but when it comes down to it, they treat those they love badly. He is one of those men. He may not love her any more, but noone deserves what he is doing to her. He is wasting her time, wasting her emotions. He may tell you she is being unfair or she is giving him ultimatums, in her mind she is trying to save her marriage. You cant blame her for that.

 

You may think you love him. You may not care that he is passive agressive. You may not care that he is being cruel to her, thinking that the means justify the ends. But I have come full circle. this is a very very bad idea.

 

Its not even a question of whether you are waiting. Its the fact that you dont see that the way he is handling this with his W is so bad.

 

I hope for you that it has a better outcome than we all think it will.

[whichwayisup]

My concern is too, his fear of being alone. So he is OK with staying in his marriage and losing you, and he's also OK with losing his wife, divorcing and starting a new relationship with you ASAP? Do you NOT see that each of you need time and space to heal and let go of the affair dynamtic, rebuild it into a real out in the open relationship? One cannot end a marriage and boom! Start a new relationship the next day.. Well, people can, but those aren't healthy relationships and they come with alot of emotional baggage.

 

This guy built a life with her, they have friends, family, inlaws, relatives.. That takes abit of time to grieve and let go of, even if he IS the one wanting out (though he is being passive and hoping she'll do the all dirty work so he won't be the bad guy) - DO you see that is a HUGE character flaw and something you need to be aware of? This is who he is, he isn't going to be someone "new" with you and change his ways, especially if he moves in with you so quickly and you two start a life together.

[MWC_LifeBeginsAt40]

I sat at my kitchen table and put my thoughts together for six hours on Sunday, and posted here.

 

I told him Sunday night of my plans and he panicked. So we talked at work on Monday and he said he realized his plan wasn't working and he needed to move on.

 

Monday night I was on here (last night) and I felt I was pressuring him. So when we talked today, I wanted to make it clear that the affair was over.

 

I don't want any control, or even to feel any control, over what he decides to do. If he never comes back to tell me things are great between them, if he never comes back to tell me they are still having problems, I am not going to think about what is going on at his home, that is between them while they are living together.

 

If he comes to me in six months after not a word of his situation, well, it's quite possible I won't feel the same way I do today, but it is quite possible I will. I don't know, you don't know.

 

Forget about the house people! He cleared that up. By saying it was better for "us" meant it was better if he lived there in his current house, and I live here in my house. I am not moving. I have children. I own and love my house.

 

It's barely been 48 hours since I made my decision. I have not wavered. I can understand some of your frustration if I have been back and forth for several months, and breaking NC, but please give me the benefit of the doubt that I can be strong enough to do this.

[Mary3]

If he is a serial cheater , this is just the everyday outcome of the cheating man who refuses to leave his wife and the other woman gets sick and tired of living this life. so the OW ends it....

 

He will get over this and likely repeat , skip , repeat again...

[MWC_LifeBeginsAt40]

It seems like alot of you are thinking this will crash and burn just because that is what usually happens in affairs, from reading posts here. Or at the very least that I will be devastated if it crashes, or if he doesn't "pick me". I can assure you I truly believe that is not the case here.

 

My decisions are to protect my heart if he stays with his wife.

 

If his M ends, and if we end up in a relationship, that is a whole other issue, because I won't get into a relationship, ANY relationship with ANYone with my walls up.

[MWC_LifeBeginsAt40]

If he is a serial cheater , this is just the everyday outcome of the cheating man who refuses to leave his wife and the other woman gets sick and tired of living this life. so the OW ends it....

 

He will get over this and likely repeat , skip , repeat again...

 

You seem to know him pretty well. fyi..He has been with a total of 4 women in his life to my 20 (including several affairs). I already know I'm the serial cheater, so maybe you can tell me right now I don't deserve to be in any relationship. I might as well give up on love and spend the rest of my life single. Oh wait, there's counselling, yes, I did make a call today to get started on that.

[bentnotbroken]

You seem to know him pretty well. fyi..He has been with a total of 4 women in his life to my 20 (including several affairs). I already know I'm the serial cheater, so maybe you can tell me right now I don't deserve to be in any relationship. I might as well give up on love and spend the rest of my life single. Oh wait, there's counselling, yes, I did make a call today to get started on that.

 

 

You seem proud of the fact of being in several affairs. Why? I don't know if you deserve a relationship or not. That's not a call that any of can make. It seems that you would be concerned that everything that you have put out there will come back to you. Do you believe that you will have a decent relationship and if so, do you deserve it?