Kamille Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 I agree Lishy. If she isn't ready she isn't ready. I just wonder, like Touche, why she's so adamant that she isn't ready when, in all other ways, she seems to feel that he is the man for her. Like I said in that post, I feel like this hasn't got much to do with him or this communication snag, but more to do with residual issues from her past, more perticularly from her absent father. I suspect that had any of my exes asked me to marry them, I would have dismissed it much the same way Star did, in spite of the fact that I do want to marry one day - and even if one of them had actually been compatible with me. And, I am curious to know why she dismissed it. I know the reasons I would have dismissed it is because a part of me still 'believes' I am not worthy of love. Or rather, a part of me still has a hard time believing a man could love me that way, unconditionnally, wanting me to be a part of his life so much that he wants to discuss marriage. As a result, a man would need to prove he really really really wants to be with me before I even allowed him to talk marriage. As a result, I might have reacted like SG, being somewhat flabbergasted that he could throw marriage around so casually because in my mind, marriage is a huge deal. It means someone chooses to be with me, wants to be with me and I struggle to accept that. (Not that anyone is proposing to me anytime soon !) Link to post Share on other sites
Touche Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 I didn't attack anyone. Sheesh. Nor am I being defensive. I merely made a comment in response to your comment. Kamille gave SG food for thought but nowhere did I see her "encouraging" her to become engaged. I guess we read that differently. I agreed with her. No matter. I'm sure SG will handle this and have a positive outcome. Link to post Share on other sites
Lishy Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 Thanks for not taking offence to my comment Kamille. Maybe she is not ready because it is only 8 months ago that she met him and wants to get to know him even more. 8 months and this is their first fight, that is cool but also shows that she does not know him or how he reacts to conflict, that that there was much conflict and now she knows he is actually quite cool in a semi quarrel. She still has so much to find out about him and him about her! I feel just like you do about finding love Kamille, I feel all of those insecurities and I would have to be so sure before I could agree to marry someone as I think it is a very serious commitment. Some people just view it as a good day out in a fancy dress but I see it as a life sentence that would be heaven with the right person but hell with the wrong one! I have picked too many wrong ones that seemed to great at the beginning to take a chance. I have a feeling this will all turn out good for Star, I think she has met her (in Phoebe's words) Lobster!!!!!!!! Link to post Share on other sites
sugarmomma Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 Personally, I don't believe in shacking up before an engagement!!! If he has money and owns a business, why isn't there a wireless internet set up in his home? Doesn't make sense. Didn't sound like a real proposal. He may want to marry you but was just feeling you out. He sounds like a great guy. You said "However, in saying that, I didn't think he really understood what I was upset about, so I just said, "No, that's not a solution to my concern that you disregarded my needs, because my needs exist regardless." Here is the problem. In relationships we start to try and hold the other person responsible for meeting our needs (mostly women). Sounded like you both had a need. His was to spend time with his family and yours was to get your work done. He did what he needed to to get his need met but you started to hold him responsible for your need which I think was unfair to him. It is an easy solution. Whatever way you chose to get your need met whether it be getting internet at your own place, his place, his brothers place or whatever, do what you need to do to take care of yourself. Now you may want to find a solution that will be more conmfortable than sweating in an office. Whatever it is just no that you should not hold him responsible. Yea it would have been nice for himto kick his brother to the curb for you but hey they are twins and he is going nowhere. The twins come as a package deal!! He sounds like a great catch! Don't blow it!! Iwish you guys the best!! Link to post Share on other sites
Touche Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 I don't get this whole "real proposal" thing. A proposal consists of a man expressing his desire to marry you asking you to marry him and nothing more. That's a REAL proposal in my book. Sure the whole bended knee, hide the ring in the cake thing is nice but that's NOT what makes it a proposal people. Also I'm still baffled by this twin as a "packaged deal" thing. I mean they're not Siamese twins. They each have a SO and their loyalty should be with them FIRST. I don't get why people aren't seeing that. Link to post Share on other sites
Lishy Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 Family should not be thrown away because of a relationship, family is forever, bf's/gf's come and go! I would never put my sister on the backburner for any guy. She is the one who gets me over him! lol Link to post Share on other sites
Touche Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 Do not put words in my mouth. I never said family should be "thrown away." But yes, your SO should come FIRST. I think they're a little more than just a b/f g/f relationship since there's talk of marriage on the table. Sorry, but as much as I love my sis and mom, my H will always come first...as would my son of course. A life partner trumps family in my world. I'm not very religious but even the Bible spells that out pretty clearly. Link to post Share on other sites
tanbark813 Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 Coming from a man, it sounds like SG's bf brought up marriage more to assuage her fears and to let her know it's in the cards. A lot of women (and probably some men) like or need that kind of assurance. I haven't asked my gf to marry me but she knows it's a future possibility. I think SG's bf's mention of marriage was more about letting her know his stance rather than officially proposing an engagement. As for the twins, they are closer than non-twin siblings. Anyone who has dated a twin knows this. Ideally an SO should come before a sibling (twin or not) but when does that happen? After one date? Of course not. After a month? Unlikely. After 6 months? I don't know. After 8 months? I don't know. After 1 year? I don't know. After 25 years? In all likelihood. I'd say it happens somewhere between a month and 25 years. Link to post Share on other sites
Lishy Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 Your SO should come first in some circumstances but who is helping you pick up the pieces when your SO is shagging his secretary or when he leaves you or you decide you do not want the relationship anymore? Family is for life ... SO's are not! Children first, bio fam second and SO 3rd in my world, but I have a great family, if you do not have such a solid family I guess it changes things! Link to post Share on other sites
Lishy Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 Touche are you saying that SG should come before her guys bro after 8 months together? Do you think that is right? Link to post Share on other sites
Touche Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 Your SO should come first in some circumstances but who is helping you pick up the pieces when your SO is shagging his secretary or when he leaves you or you decide you do not want the relationship anymore? Family is for life ... SO's are not! Children first, bio fam second and SO 3rd in my world, but I have a great family, if you do not have such a solid family I guess it changes things! Look, i get what you're saying but if you go into a relationship and it's getting serious and you still think like that, well you don't stand much of a chance of it ever working out. You see my point? Some part of you has to have some trust there and you have to really give of yourself. You mean to tell me you go into a relationship thinking like that? "Oh I better not make him a priority in case he dumps me for his secretary." Besides, I never said to just forget your family or shove them in the background. Never. But you don't put your SO second if you want it to work. You have to strike a proper balance. I think SG is being reasonable in her wants/needs. She's more than willing to spend time with the bro and the fiancee. But at what price should she be so accommodating...at the expense of their previously planned evening and time together? No. That's not right on his part. I said earlier, it would have pissed me off too. Fortunately, he hasn't made a habit of it. So I advised SG to cut him some slack here. And to answer your question...YES SG should come before her bro after 8 months. Yes. If he wants a serious relationship and marriage, YES. At some point in our lives our family of origin becomes less of a priority than the family we make. That's always FIRST. Ever heard of "forsaking all others." I believe in that. When my H was in the hospital sure his siblings came and visited and he was happy to see them. He's very close to them. But he was able to relax when they left. He had me to help feed him and help him with his basic needs (if you know what i mean.) Do you see where I'm going with this? I know you didn't have the best marriage so maybe you don't know what I'm talking about. But your spouse should come FIRST above all else in this world. Then children. Then your family of origin. Works for me. I wish Moose was still around. This is basic stuff. I don't even believe this is a topic of debate but apparently it is. Link to post Share on other sites
Lishy Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 yeah, maybe my experiences have jaded me and maybe knowing that men leave as quick as they come and yet my family remain through everything makes me feel the way I do Maybe you are right, maybe I am right ... It is a personal choice I guess and different things work for different people. I think in stars case in this example, star wanted quite to work and her BF had nothing to do so when his bro called he got excited at having company and didnt think about how it would affect her. I think he was justified in what he did to a degree as it is his house and he was not the one who wanted peace and quiet. In the same sense I can see why star got upset but I think in her case she will have to get used to having the bro and his wife and swimming dog around. They seem close and IMO that is a good thing. Link to post Share on other sites
Touche Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 yeah, maybe my experiences have jaded me and maybe knowing that men leave as quick as they come and yet my family remain through everything makes me feel the way I do Maybe you are right, maybe I am right ... It is a personal choice I guess and different things work for different people. I think in stars case in this example, star wanted quite to work and her BF had nothing to do so when his bro called he got excited at having company and didnt think about how it would affect her. I think he was justified in what he did to a degree as it is his house and he was not the one who wanted peace and quiet. In the same sense I can see why star got upset but I think in her case she will have to get used to having the bro and his wife and swimming dog around. They seem close and IMO that is a good thing. Sure. Nothing to disagree with there. (The swimming dog thing makes me laugh for some reason. Like they have a kid.) I do understand your point of view even if I don't agree with it. I think how this is resolved will really set the tone for this relationship. I say that because in a marriage or any long-term relationship this kind of thing comes up a lot. The his/her needs vs. his/her wants. Whether you come before all else MOST of the time..etc. etc. After awhile, the way you handle this stuff becomes almost second nature. But it comes up time and time again in different forms. I mean to say that the situation is different maybe but the bottom line is the same..balancing each other's wants/needs. Like I said in another post here, it's a fine line between being accommodating and willing to negotiate and being a doormat. It's tough sometimes. Every couple has to go through that "learning curve" with each other until it is comfortable and easy and second nature. When each person gets MOST of their needs/wants met ('cause no one gets ALL their needs/wants met ALL of the time) then you're good. And there's no formula. It's very different from couple to couple. As it stands, from what I can see, SG is FAR more accommodating vis-a-vis this brother thing than I think I would be. But I'm kinda anti-social and can't tolerate being around other people very often. So in her case, I'd have a really tough time. But she seems more than willing to spend a lot of time with them. He needs to learn how to be in a relationship where his SO comes first. They're (the bros) are no longer little kids. They're adults now on their way to starting their OWN families. The b/f seems willing to adjust though and I'll give him that. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Star Gazer Posted June 30, 2009 Author Share Posted June 30, 2009 Coming from a man, it sounds like SG's bf brought up marriage more to assuage her fears and to let her know it's in the cards. A lot of women (and probably some men) like or need that kind of assurance. I haven't asked my gf to marry me but she knows it's a future possibility. I think SG's bf's mention of marriage was more about letting her know his stance rather than officially proposing an engagement. Yup. I'm convinced that's what it was... and PHEW! Such a relief! I was NOT ready for a "real" proposal!!! I'd say it happens somewhere between a month and 25 years. Ha! I agree. As for the rest, why I "dismissed" it and don't feel ready to move in, Kamille's last post was pretty much spot on... I think. Link to post Share on other sites
marlena Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 I agree with Lishy. Men may come and go but it is family that sticks with you through thick and thin. If a man comes along who will do the same, then, he is a keeper but they are few and far between. Link to post Share on other sites
Touche Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 I agree with Lishy. Men may come and go but it is family that sticks with you through thick and thin. If a man comes along who will do the same, then, he is a keeper but they are few and far between. My point was that you'll never really know if they're a "keeper" unless you make them a priority at the appropriate time. If you don't make your SO a priority you run the risk of losing them. Maybe there's a reason some women have men who "come and go" in and out of their lives. Just food for thought there. Link to post Share on other sites
marlena Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 My point was that you'll never really know if they're a "keeper" unless you make them a priority at the appropriate time. If you don't make your SO a priority you run the risk of losing them. Maybe there's a reason some women have men who "come and go" in and out of their lives. Just food for thought there. Yes, I agree but only if he/she does the same. It should be reciprocal. If it isn't, then, I'd say there's a problem. And this in my experience becomes evident very early on in a relationship. Link to post Share on other sites
Touche Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Yes, I agree but only if he/she does the same. It should be reciprocal. If it isn't, then, I'd say there's a problem. And this in my experience becomes evident very early on in a relationship. What can I say? You're one thousand percent correct on that score. Link to post Share on other sites
marlena Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 What can I say? You're one thousand percent correct on that score. I wish I had known this when I was younger. Link to post Share on other sites
Touche Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 I wish I had known this when I was younger. That makes two of us Marlena! I never could get it right...gave my whole heart to those who didn't deserve it and didn't give my heart to those who did. Live and learn. Link to post Share on other sites
Lishy Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 I wish I had known this when I was younger. That makes 3 of us! How do we know who to trust when we get burned by the ones we thought we could trust! I will stick by my rule and know that my family never let me down Link to post Share on other sites
marlena Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 I never could get it right...gave my whole heart to those who didn't deserve it and didn't give my heart to those who did. Live and learn. You got it right in the end, Touche, and that's all that matters. I will stick by my rule and know that my family never let me down Neither did mine - ever! But I am still hoping to find the man who will love me with the same loyalty. Fat chance! Link to post Share on other sites
Lishy Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Marlena I am hoping that one day I will find that love! I find it hard to believe it really exists to be honest I have one constant and its my family One day hopefully both of us will feel how Touche does Link to post Share on other sites
Touche Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 It was dumb luck mixed with a pinch of wisdom from lessons learned, in my case. I wish that for you guys too. Keep the faith, Marlena and Lishy! Link to post Share on other sites
marlena Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 It was dumb luck mixed with a pinch of wisdom from lessons learned, in my case. It's true that one needs both. Luck to have both your paths cross and the wisdom to recognize him/her when they do. Thanks,Touche. Link to post Share on other sites
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