I think we're having our first fight.

[Lauriebell82]

Give SG a break

 

She doesn't ever give me one...

[blind_otter]

There are no different ways in my book to see it though. You either put your SO first above all others..or you don't. It's that simple, really.

 

I'm not putting anyone first (except my child of course) unless we have agreed together to make a solid commitment to each other. If I, or my partner, is dragging their feet, why would I bother to put them first? That wouldn't make any sense.

 

Where I am, once you are married - your spouse comes first. Family (parents, siblings) second. Not that that's a bad thing cause everything comes with a balance (or at least, my parents taught me that).

 

I put my child first. Then my partner. Dems da breaks. Anyone who thinks that they should come before a small child is mentally a small child themselves.

[carhill]

Anyone who thinks that they should come before a small child is mentally a small child themselves.

No, they have a different perspective. Witness women who complain about divorced men putting their children first. Agreement on such basic philosophies forms the essence of compatibility.

 

Personally, though off-topic completely, my perspective is that adults are the focus of the family, not children. Children do not have the tools, experience nor wisdom to accept such responsibility. They are to be cared for, nurtured and provided positive role models, but never to the exclusion of the adults.

 

One human, one perspective. Many potentials

[blind_otter]

Personally, though off-topic completely, my perspective is that adults are the focus of the family, not children. Children do not have the tools, experience nor wisdom to accept such responsibility. They are to be cared for, nurtured and provided positive role models, but never to the exclusion of the adults.

 

I do disagree. If someone does not have the ability to speak for themselves. If they cannot clean themselves, feed themselves, or go to the bathroom by themselves, then their needs come first. Period. I would hate to be a disabled, helpless person whose needs are ignored for periods of time because the adults are busy amongst themselves. Then again this is getting into parenting philosophy and deserves another thread.

 

Perhaps this is because I deal with an infant on a daily basis. If you're not really living with a small child, you can have a more tidy mental image of what raising a child involves. The reality is much messier. Children don't "fit" into an adult centered world very easily.

[carhill]

No worries. Incompatible. My parents were the center of my family when I was a child. When my mother became a mental child and I was forced to care for her (meaning wipe her ass and give her a bath), my wife and I were still the center of my family. Your experiences and perspective are different. Perhaps such things are good topics for discussion by S_G and her BF. IME, agreement on such matters is imperative for a positive and healthy relationship.

[Trialbyfire]

While each spouse comes first during the relationship and then, subsequently the marriage, after the children come, the children come first, for both spouses.

 

For example, when it comes to leisure activities, the children get shuttled to their assorted athletic/creative endeavors by the parents, who have to give up their leisure time for the children. Of course this is done because the parents want to do it, not because they sacrifice their time.

 

If a baby needs to be fed, bathed, etc., their needs come first.

 

I'm uncertain how it could be any other way.

[Lishy]

Children come first every time in my book, my son comes before even myself! My job is to raise him. He will come before any man who comes into my life and even if I got married one day he would come before my husband. He comes before my mother and my sister and he will until he is an adult and can do for himself and even then he will probably come first to some degree!

 

No man will ever be as important as my child

[carhill]

Great example.....a perfect one showing how spouses need to be in agreement. Remember, no right or wrong here.

 

My perspective - Babies, infants, toddlers and young children cleave to their parents and will often (mostly) try to be with them all the time, even in bed. My philosophy of the parents putting their relationship first would disallow me from allowing the child to share the adult bed and interfering with adult intimacy. The child is safe, fed, nappied and secure, in their own crib/bed/whatever. They are taught that there is no other option. Mom and dad have their private time. No discussion. The child is not the center of the family.

 

Since the OP's BF has strong family ties, it would be interesting to hear her take on such matters and how they agree or disagree. IMO, she's at that point where, if BF is floating the idea of marriage, such things should be discussed, if not already done.

 

BTW, my parents never (or nearly never, unless it required long distance travel) took me to any activities. I went with the group or found my own way (usually by walking or bicycle). Great early lessons in promoting independence and security with being alone, as well as finding a sense of accomplishment in the challenge rather than from the cheering section. One datapoint

[Trialbyfire]

carhill, putting the children first doesn't mean that the spouses aren't also priorities. Children don't "need" to sleep with their parents and won't die from not doing so. Children will die, if not fed and sheltered. Children can die of disease, if a reasonable level of hygiene and medical care, isn't provided. It's not as if the parents become invisible slaves, when they become parents.

 

Maybe I'm arguing a subjective definition. Who knows.

[Kamille]

My parents were so children focused, it never crossed my mind it could be any other way... And yet, I think I agree with Carhill.

 

Now that they are both retired, it seems like both my parents are going through identity crisis. My sister and I have been the centre of their lives for so long that it seems they have a hard time relating to each other and themselves.

 

Plus, while being coddled the way we were has led my sister and I to be successful career-wise, neither one of us knows how to sustain a healthy balanced relationship. And both of use are still trying to figure out whether my parents really love each other because, simply put, we never really saw it. They got so caught up in familiy and career that they forgot about themselves.

 

I just wonder how things would be different for us all had they made their relationship a priority.

[carhill]

Maybe I'm arguing a subjective definition. Who knows.

 

I actually feel you're onto an important subject, one worthy of consideration by the OP. How we feel about such matters, at the elemental psychological level, is critical to compatibility.

 

Their misunderstanding/lack of communication about space and time allocation wrt the twin brother underscores the dynamic of the formation of a team and how they achieve that goal in a positive way.

 

In past postings, you've often mentioned wants and needs. From the responses I've received here, I would opine that parenting philosophy would be an intrinsic setpoint or "need" to be in agreement. IOW, any significant bending at such an elemental level as progeny would likely be accompanied by substantial resentment, whether apparent or repressed.

 

Interesting stuff

[Trialbyfire]

I couldn't agree with you more about how people view family, as a strong "need" from the list of compatibilities.

 

How they perceive and handle interaction with any and all family members, including future children, is key.

 

This was a big seller for me, with my fiance. He's a family first kind of guy who adores children. We also both believe that once you bond for life, you become part of the family.

[Touche]

Just wanted to say that your posts, Carhill, on this subject (child-centered vs. marriage centered family) were excellent. I agree wholeheartedly.

 

And yeah, Kamille you get it.

 

But really, it should be what's best for the couple involved. SG and her b/f (fiance'?) have to be on the same page when it comes to time spent with family (bro). And later, they'll have to decide the dynamics of their marriage vis-a-vis kids, etc.

 

As for this BO

 

I'm not putting anyone first (except my child of course) unless we have agreed together to make a solid commitment to each other. If I, or my partner, is dragging their feet, why would I bother to put them first? That wouldn't make any sense.

 

Of course. We've already established that. That should go without saying.

[Star Gazer]

She doesn't ever give me one...

 

Are you here only because you don't like what I have to say in your threads?

[Star Gazer]

SG and her b/f (fiance'?)....

 

Stop that!

[Trialbyfire]

I was thinking about this family thing a bit more. S's family is being consumed by mine, which is normal within our family unit. Whomever you bring into the family, their families become part of the unit so the family just keeps growing, like an amoeba.

 

I suspect that this would be extremely difficult, for some to handle.

[carhill]

like an amoeba

 

You will be assimilated; resistance is futile

[Touche]

Stop that!

 

:p

 

ahahaha, knew you were going to jump on me for that!

 

Have you/he started on that office yet? You have a long weekend coming up, no? Perfect opportunity to get it done.

[Touche]

I was thinking about this family thing a bit more. S's family is being consumed by mine, which is normal within our family unit. Whomever you bring into the family, their families become part of the unit so the family just keeps growing, like an amoeba.

 

I suspect that this would be extremely difficult, for some to handle.

 

So true. That's why I said earlier that SG is handling this WAY better than I would be.

 

Family is good as long as there's a certain amount of distance. Luckily for me, H is close to his sisters and I love them too but they're not TOO close for comfort.

[Star Gazer]

Have you/he started on that office yet? You have a long weekend coming up, no? Perfect opportunity to get it done.

 

No, not yet. I'll be in the office, or a hotel (it's about 75 miles away) all weekend preparing for trial. My holiday weekend isn't gonna be too fun.

[Touche]

No, not yet. I'll be in the office, or a hotel (it's about 75 miles away) all weekend preparing for trial. My holiday weekend isn't gonna be too fun.

 

Awww...that stinks. Maybe he'll work on it while you're gone.

[carhill]

Hotels have really good air conditioning

 

Try this with BF: "Honey, I'd really like a comfortable space to work when I'm at your place. All I really need is xxxx. Could you set that up for me this weekend? Thanks, you're a doll."

 

A man who's invested enough to float marriage proposals will respond positively to this kind of direct request, IMO.

 

Good luck!

[sb129]

Interesting turn this has taken- WB and I have been discussing this exact topic recently as a result of imminent parenthood. I know this should probably be a topic for another thread.

 

We have received varying advice from people and resources on whether you are "marriage focused parents" or "child focused parents" and I think we are leaning towards the former as a result of observations like Kamilles and Carhills. (well we will try)

 

My parents were great buddies long after my brother and I left home and had a very strong marriage. They enjoyed eachothers company and didn't focus everything on us- we turned out fine and they had a great R.

 

Just wanted to say that your posts, Carhill, on this subject (child-centered vs. marriage centered family) were excellent. I agree wholeheartedly.

 

Maybe we should start a new thread, I would be interested to read a few more opinions on this.

 

My parents were so children focused, it never crossed my mind it could be any other way... And yet, I think I agree with Carhill.

 

Now that they are both retired, it seems like both my parents are going through identity crisis. My sister and I have been the centre of their lives for so long that it seems they have a hard time relating to each other and themselves.

They got so caught up in familiy and career that they forgot about themselves.

 

I just wonder how things would be different for us all had they made their relationship a priority.

 

Thanks for sharing that Kamille- very interesting.

 

SG- Maybe the weekend away will prompt some more "action" on BFs part.

[Lauriebell82]

Are you here only because you don't like what I have to say in your threads?

 

No, this is actually an interesting thread.

 

The recent posts regarding child rearing: My parents put my sister and I ahead of themselves..not their relationship, with what they gave us. They saved every penny for us, bought us brand new cars when we graduated from college while they drive old, used ones.

 

The result is that they tend to not want to let us go now that we are adults. Especially me, since now I can support myself and don't need to call them for money. I think because they made us their center they don't know what to do with themselves now that we aren't there. It's an interesting dynamic, now they just have each other and have no clue how to handle that.

[Star Gazer]

No, this is actually an interesting thread.

 

The recent posts regarding child rearing: My parents put my sister and I ahead of themselves..not their relationship, with what they gave us. They saved every penny for us, bought us brand new cars when we graduated from college while they drive old, used ones.

 

The result is that they tend to not want to let us go now that we are adults. Especially me, since now I can support myself and don't need to call them for money. I think because they made us their center they don't know what to do with themselves now that we aren't there. It's an interesting dynamic, now they just have each other and have no clue how to handle that.

 

I find it interesting that you're focusing on the impact their spoiling of you had on them, and not yourself. But I'm really not surprised that they spoiled you like that.