Helter_Skelter Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 I have been married for 2 years and this is my story. Before-marriage: My wife and I met 9 years ago, dated for almost 2 years and then she broke up with me because I broke her heart by going away on a trip and was cold to her when I came back among other reasons. I was a certified wreck after that. Fast forward almost 2 years later and she comes back to me. We get back together but I was feeling queasy and really scared she would leave me. Eventually the feeling passed but I was always had wandering eyes even if I didn't act. She then put the pressure on for marriage which I delayed repeatedly citing numerous reasons such as she's too young to get engaged (she was still in university) and then it was that we fought too much. During that whole second time together I was playing off of her passive and passive aggressive but always giving in except for getting engaged. Then my mother got very sick and passed away and the tables turned - I became the 'strong' one. Eventually, though, I gave in and we got married shortly after my mother passed away but I was very nervous and anxious about it. The Marriage: Since we got married I have been very indecisive as if we didn't really get married and have one foot in and one foot out of it. We live in an apartment and she wanted us to buy a house and start a family but I again delayed and delayed citing real estate prices then marriage problems. She stuck through all of this but with no surprise lots of resentment. Then she put the pressure on 6 months ago about kids again and I agreed even though on an emotional level I was not whole the decision. I became super anxious and then I couldn't get it up with her. we ended up putting the kids thing on hold but the 'issue' remained even after trying many things. Sine then I agreed to buy a house but also felt not good about it. A week and half ago she left the apartment and went to her parents and this time I didn't fight it - I just let her go and even said to her maybe its the best thing right now. I did not contact her since I was confused emotionally of what I wanted but this broke her in some way and gave her time to reflect on the crappy marriage that remained. Today she told me she wants a legal separation immediately so she could get her own place. She says I need to work on myself and she can't wait around but if I come around and she is still available and ready then maybe there is a chance. I convinced her to wait a week before initiating legal separation so that I could digest this and so could she. I fear she has moved on internally. I don't know what kind of advice I am looking for except maybe someone can help with what I can do to not push her away? Sorry for the long post... Link to post Share on other sites
LakesideDream Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 You already have pushed her away. Both of you are young, and probably should not have married. If there are no children involved the best thing may be to end it. Who knows, someday it may work out between in a different way, with different rules. Good Luck, Link to post Share on other sites
Pradajunkie Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 I don't know what kind of advice I am looking for except maybe someone can help with what I can do to not push her away? Sorry for the long post... You already pushed her away when you didn't commit to being in your relationship with her. You can't have your cake and eat it too, you either have to commit to her 100% or set her free. This partial commiting isn't going to work for either of you. I would suggest a visit with an IC, and maybe eventually if she sees you trying to resolve these issues she'll go into some type of marriage or couples couseling with you. I would also suggest some serious soul searching, you need to figure out if you really want to be in this realtionship with her... or if you're just afraid of losing her. Good luck to you PJ Link to post Share on other sites
LisaUk Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 What was it that you were afraid of? You say you were anxious to get married, then anxious to buy a house, then anxious to have children. Ask yourself, WHY the anxiety, what is at the root of it? Link to post Share on other sites
Author Helter_Skelter Posted June 30, 2009 Author Share Posted June 30, 2009 I know I have been pushing her away. I realize now that I have been afraid of commitment - I thought all along it was her that was the problem. I finally realize and accept that it has been me and that I have been afraid of getting hurt. So tragic that I set this up and ended up getting myself hurt even though it was what I was afraid of. I just hope it's not too late. Her asking for a legal separation seems quite definitive. I would much prefer a trial separation to give it some time. Link to post Share on other sites
Pradajunkie Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 I know I have been pushing her away. I realize now that I have been afraid of commitment - I thought all along it was her that was the problem. I finally realize and accept that it has been me and that I have been afraid of getting hurt. So tragic that I set this up and ended up getting myself hurt even though it was what I was afraid of. I just hope it's not too late. Her asking for a legal separation seems quite definitive. I would much prefer a trial separation to give it some time. You need to take the bull by the horns here, time is running short, YOU need to fix your issues, she's given you time and now that she's making steps away you realize your about to lose her for good...TODAY you need to get in the game, you need to tell her you are willing to do whatever it takes to keep your marriage and repair your issues, and you need to mean it. Sit with her ask her what she would like you to do to make your relationship work and eventually become the best husband she could ever need. Tell her that you are in this heart and soul because you love her and want to be there for her every step of the way. Mean it! Then take all the steps, she needs you to make, make a list if you need too. If you don't start acting soon she's going to go through with the legal seperation and eventually file. Keep us posted! You made a step in the right direction, Good luck to you PJ Link to post Share on other sites
LisaUk Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 I know I have been pushing her away. I realize now that I have been afraid of commitment - I thought all along it was her that was the problem. I finally realize and accept that it has been me and that I have been afraid of getting hurt. So tragic that I set this up and ended up getting myself hurt even though it was what I was afraid of. I just hope it's not too late. Her asking for a legal separation seems quite definitive. I would much prefer a trial separation to give it some time. Yes, I recognised the signs from what I have just been through with my ex. He won't or doesn't know he has a commitment phobia though! (Perhaps you can help me understand him?) My understanding is that someone with commitment phobia feels a constant push/pull. They desire intimacy and a healthy relationship, to be loved, but then when they get that, they pull away from it. Something you said in your post "so tragic that I set this up and ended up getting hurt, EVEN THOUGH THAT WAS WHAT I WAS AFRAID OF". It's great that you are able to admit this and shows that you really do love your wife, you are willing to deal with your own problem rather than blame her and lose her. That takes tremendous courage. You need to get professional help if this truely is a commitment phobia, (and not just a problem in this relationship), you will not be able to have a healthy functioning relationship with your wife or anyone else, for that matter, until you get into therapy to deal with the root cause of this. Go see a therapist, ask their advice and also how to explain this/approach your wife. You may want to also have a look at a book called He's Scared, She's Scared by Stephen Carter. I'm also trying to find a website I was on yesterday that had a fantastic checklist of feelings commitment phobes have, I cant find it at the moment, but I'll keep looking and post if I do. Keep posting. Link to post Share on other sites
SRV Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 I know I have been pushing her away. I realize now that I have been afraid of commitment - I thought all along it was her that was the problem. I finally realize and accept that it has been me and that I have been afraid of getting hurt. So tragic that I set this up and ended up getting myself hurt even though it was what I was afraid of. I just hope it's not too late. Her asking for a legal separation seems quite definitive. I would much prefer a trial separation to give it some time. The mere fact that you had doubts about marrying her in the first place is a sign that you should never have got married. On the house issue, yet again you had doubts, those are red flags that you two were not compartible or had different goals and desires. If you have no kids together, I would let this one go. You both need an opportunity to find someone that will be entirely dedicated to the other without the second guessing. Someone that you share the same goals and aspirations with and most importantly, someone that you can communicate and compromise with. Always remember, whenever there is a doubt, there is a doubt. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Helter_Skelter Posted June 30, 2009 Author Share Posted June 30, 2009 Yes, I recognised the signs from what I have just been through with my ex. He won't or doesn't know he has a commitment phobia though! (Perhaps you can help me understand him?) My understanding is that someone with commitment phobia feels a constant push/pull. They desire intimacy and a healthy relationship, to be loved, but then when they get that, they pull away from it. Something you said in your post "so tragic that I set this up and ended up getting hurt, EVEN THOUGH THAT WAS WHAT I WAS AFRAID OF". It's great that you are able to admit this and shows that you really do love your wife, you are willing to deal with your own problem rather than blame her and lose her. That takes tremendous courage. You need to get professional help if this truely is a commitment phobia, (and not just a problem in this relationship), you will not be able to have a healthy functioning relationship with your wife or anyone else, for that matter, until you get into therapy to deal with the root cause of this. Go see a therapist, ask their advice and also how to explain this/approach your wife. You may want to also have a look at a book called He's Scared, She's Scared by Stephen Carter. I'm also trying to find a website I was on yesterday that had a fantastic checklist of feelings commitment phobes have, I cant find it at the moment, but I'll keep looking and post if I do. Keep posting. Thank you. I actually have been seeing someone for a few years actually but it didn't help me enough. Now I am re-evaluating to see someone else because I don't think she guided me enough - she comes from the type of psychotherapy that believes you should find the answers within you...I think she could have led me to this much earlier. I am not so familiar with commitment phobia in a clinical sense but I can strongly relate to the push/pull dynamic. It's amazing how when I had her I didn't appreciate her and always dreamed of being with someone else or being single which is not what I really want. I really don't want to go back to that and I am solid in my desire to feel through the pain of my past that has been holding me back. I really believe she helped me get there by dropping that bomb on me yesterday. I am staying focused on it but man it hurts like hell. Link to post Share on other sites
LisaUk Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 SRV, although that may be true in some cases, Helter Skelter is describing servere anxiety here, anxiety attacks, loss of sexual function, that seems indicative of more than just your average doubts? He also stated that if thought the problem was her, now she's gone he can see it isn't, the problem is his. In other words, he knows he has a psychological problem and this problem would exist with any women. I'm still looking for the website for you, in the mean time ask yourself the following Do you fear feeling dependant or having someone else be dependant on you? Do you fear losing your independance? Do you think there is someone PERFECT out there for you? Do you leave quickly after sex? Do you work long hours or have hobbies that keep you away from your loved ones? Do you have trouble holding down a job? Is it difficult for you to buy a large purchase, such as a house or car? I'm still trying to find it! Link to post Share on other sites
LisaUk Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Thank you. I actually have been seeing someone for a few years actually but it didn't help me enough. Now I am re-evaluating to see someone else because I don't think she guided me enough - she comes from the type of psychotherapy that believes you should find the answers within you...I think she could have led me to this much earlier. I am not so familiar with commitment phobia in a clinical sense but I can strongly relate to the push/pull dynamic. It's amazing how when I had her I didn't appreciate her and always dreamed of being with someone else or being single which is not what I really want. I really don't want to go back to that and I am solid in my desire to feel through the pain of my past that has been holding me back. I really believe she helped me get there by dropping that bomb on me yesterday. I am staying focused on it but man it hurts like hell. We just crossed posts, am still looking for you, a lot of what is on the internet is pop psychology, but the site I am trying to find is really helpful in identifying a true phobia. Link to post Share on other sites
LisaUk Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Ø I’m afraid that no one will want me because I’m not perfect enough Ø I’m afraid that any partner I choose won’t be perfect enough Ø I’m afraid people will judge me by the partner I choose Ø I’m afraid of losing the freedom to do what I want, when I want Ø I’m afraid of losing my sexual freedom Ø I’m afraid of being bored Ø I’m afraid I’ll change my mind and therefore feel stuck Ø I’m afraid I’ll end up feeling limited and constrained by the compromises and obligations of commitment Ø I’m afraid of losing my individuality and my sense of self Ø I’m afraid of being controlled Ø I’m afraid of losing control Ø I’m afraid that I won’t have that magic feeling—and won’t end up with the mate that fate had intended for me Ø I’m afraid of growing older Ø I’m afraid that my life will narrow and I’ll die without ever having lived—or having done everything I want to do Ø I’m afraid that I’ll love so much that something awful will happen to me Ø I’m afraid that all the things I’m ashamed of will be found out by the person I care about, and s/he will therefore reject me Ø I’m afraid of being dependent on someone else Ø I’m afraid of having someone dependent on me Ø I’m afraid of making another romantic mistake Ø I’m afraid I’ll make my life more complicated and create more problems for myself Ø I’m afraid I’ll be giving up the life I enjoy just the way it is Ø I’m afraid of sharing my money Ø I’m afraid that the circumstances of my life are such that there is no room for another person Ø I’m afraid of the responsibilities that come with marriage and commitment Scoring: 0 points for seldom. 1 for sometimes. 2 for often. Although this is not scientific, the rule of thumb I would recommend you use is that if you have a score of 10 or more, you have problems with commitment. The higher the total, the more likely it is that you are afraid of commitment. Ok, found the site, the quiz above is from it, but there are further articles on there as well. It's http://www.heartrelationships.com/ARTICLES/article.htm Hope it helps. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Helter_Skelter Posted June 30, 2009 Author Share Posted June 30, 2009 SRV, although that may be true in some cases, Helter Skelter is describing servere anxiety here, anxiety attacks, loss of sexual function, that seems indicative of more than just your average doubts? He also stated that if thought the problem was her, now she's gone he can see it isn't, the problem is his. In other words, he knows he has a psychological problem and this problem would exist with any women. I'm still looking for the website for you, in the mean time ask yourself the following Do you fear feeling dependant or having someone else be dependant on you? Do you fear losing your independance? Do you think there is someone PERFECT out there for you? Do you leave quickly after sex? Do you work long hours or have hobbies that keep you away from your loved ones? Do you have trouble holding down a job? Is it difficult for you to buy a large purchase, such as a house or car? I'm still trying to find it! Answers to the questions: YES (Big fear the first time we went out - she was very dependent on me) YES YES (I did anyway, I try not to think like that now) Yes (for the most part) YES (Work, I have a consulting business and I work longer hours than I need to) No YES Link to post Share on other sites
Author Helter_Skelter Posted June 30, 2009 Author Share Posted June 30, 2009 Ø I’m afraid that no one will want me because I’m not perfect enough Ø I’m afraid that any partner I choose won’t be perfect enough Ø I’m afraid people will judge me by the partner I choose Ø I’m afraid of losing the freedom to do what I want, when I want Ø I’m afraid of losing my sexual freedom Ø I’m afraid of being bored Ø I’m afraid I’ll change my mind and therefore feel stuck Ø I’m afraid I’ll end up feeling limited and constrained by the compromises and obligations of commitment Ø I’m afraid of losing my individuality and my sense of self Ø I’m afraid of being controlled Ø I’m afraid of losing control Ø I’m afraid that I won’t have that magic feeling—and won’t end up with the mate that fate had intended for me Ø I’m afraid of growing older Ø I’m afraid that my life will narrow and I’ll die without ever having lived—or having done everything I want to do Ø I’m afraid that I’ll love so much that something awful will happen to me Ø I’m afraid that all the things I’m ashamed of will be found out by the person I care about, and s/he will therefore reject me Ø I’m afraid of being dependent on someone else Ø I’m afraid of having someone dependent on me Ø I’m afraid of making another romantic mistake Ø I’m afraid I’ll make my life more complicated and create more problems for myself Ø I’m afraid I’ll be giving up the life I enjoy just the way it is Ø I’m afraid of sharing my money Ø I’m afraid that the circumstances of my life are such that there is no room for another person Ø I’m afraid of the responsibilities that come with marriage and commitment Scoring: 0 points for seldom. 1 for sometimes. 2 for often. Although this is not scientific, the rule of thumb I would recommend you use is that if you have a score of 10 or more, you have problems with commitment. The higher the total, the more likely it is that you are afraid of commitment. Ok, found the site, the quiz above is from it, but there are further articles on there as well. It's http://www.heartrelationships.com/ARTICLES/article.htm Hope it helps. For whatever it's worth I scored 39...yikes Link to post Share on other sites
LisaUk Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 For whatever it's worth I scored 39...yikes Ok then, so I think we can safely say a probable commitment phobia?! It is treatable, you just need to find a therapist who has dealt with it before and knows what they are doing. Ring round, ask them before you change therapists. You mentioned a painful past, I'm guessing, but commitment phobes usually have some sort of negative beliefs that stem from observing key relationships during childhood, like your parents marriage, parents divorcing etc. Sometimes though it can be the result of a bad experience in a previous relationship. Intially, when I read your first post I thought, she broke it off with him before, he was devastated, but actually reading it again, you said "Iwent away, when I came back, I went cold on her", so suggests was already present at that point? I know you have your own problems going on, but if you get chance at some point, could I ask you to have a look at my thread "I get it", think you might be able to help me out big time. Try and keep in mind that although you are in a pull feeling at the moment you may go back to a push one, so try and get an appointment asap! Keep posting. Link to post Share on other sites
NopeNah Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Thanks for that list, lisauk. I think!?!?! YIKES! Guess I also have commitment issues..I barely committed to finishing it. :-) Link to post Share on other sites
Author Helter_Skelter Posted July 2, 2009 Author Share Posted July 2, 2009 Update: I talked to her Tuesday evening and then she came back that night. We talked and she wanted to know if I was really ready and different. It's amazing how scared I am. The second she came back I was again phobic and stuck. From a feeling of deep isolation and despair to a feeling of deep fear and isolation. I told her that I am working to be better. I am worried. I again feel like I did before she left except I am trying so hard to stay with it. I agreed to move forward and buy a house together and that if she felt that I again cannot move forward that I would no make it hard for her to leave like I did before. I agreed. I so want to get over this fear of commitment. Maybe I should post somewhere but not sure. I have been seeing a therapist but my progress is so slow its killing me. I again catch myself dreaming of escaping and of other women. It really feels like a disease. If anyone has any insight into how I can get over this I would appreciate it. Link to post Share on other sites
LisaUk Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 Update: I talked to her Tuesday evening and then she came back that night. We talked and she wanted to know if I was really ready and different. It's amazing how scared I am. The second she came back I was again phobic and stuck. From a feeling of deep isolation and despair to a feeling of deep fear and isolation. I told her that I am working to be better. I am worried. I again feel like I did before she left except I am trying so hard to stay with it. I agreed to move forward and buy a house together and that if she felt that I again cannot move forward that I would no make it hard for her to leave like I did before. I agreed. I so want to get over this fear of commitment. Maybe I should post somewhere but not sure. I have been seeing a therapist but my progress is so slow its killing me. I again catch myself dreaming of escaping and of other women. It really feels like a disease. If anyone has any insight into how I can get over this I would appreciate it. Hi, I just replied to you on my thread and now I have read your most recent post I know I was right in thinking you were back in a push situation (you mentioned ego on my thread, you are already trying to come up with other possible explanations for your despair on her leaving, please try to remember you felt DESPAIR). Although you feel like this terrible, it is a phobia like any other phobia, just as with social phobia people feel an overwhelming fear of social situations and the need to flee, with commitment phobia you feel an overwhelming fear of committing. When you have a phobia, you are experincing a fear that is not in proportion to reality ie: you percieve it to be a bigger threat than it really is. Your body goes into a flight fight response and adrenilin pumps through your blood, causes anxiety. This fight/flight response was once necessary, it goes back to the time when we were hunters, when faced with a dangerous animal our body produced adrenilin to help us to either fight or run away (flight). Although, sometimes in modern life it is still useful (such as in an emergency, or steeping out o fthe way of a car), fo rthe post part it is redundant. Therefore when you experience an irrational fear the fight/flight response has no use, no escape, what can you fight? what can you flee? hence, anxiety (panic) attack, which can be so bad you can actually feel that you are going to die. One thing that will relieve an anxiety attack immediately is to flee the cause of it. However, when you do this repeadtedly you are actually making the situation much worse, because you start to avoid the cause of your anxiety and next time you have to face it the anxiety is increased and so on and so on. I understand panic attacks, I have personal experience of them, for many years, there is a treatment that works, it is hard work, but it does work. It is called Cognitive Behavioural Therapy (CBT) and is avialable from a registered Clinical Psychologist. Now, the problem you have is commitment and any such treatment, is going to require commitment. A conundrum! You also need to identify the cause of your phobia. Like I mentioned before, this is usually as a result of seeing a bad key relationship in childhood, you then form negative associations with commitment. Now you can explore this in therapy, or you can try hypnotherapy. The best course of action is to find a Clinical Psychologist that can provide all three aspects of the treatment you require. They do exist. Please try, as hard as it is to remember the pain you felt when your wife left you and how lucky you are that she has already returned to you. Try and get an appointment asap, if you don't deal with this you are doomes to keep repeating the experiences you are having now. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Helter_Skelter Posted July 3, 2009 Author Share Posted July 3, 2009 Thank you - so right you are. As an FYI - I am fighting through it as hard as I can and we are planning to go house shopping this weekend. I will look into the treatment option you speak of as well. Link to post Share on other sites
LisaUk Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 Thank you - so right you are. As an FYI - I am fighting through it as hard as I can and we are planning to go house shopping this weekend. I will look into the treatment option you speak of as well. Hi Helter, a good book that might help as well is He's Scared, She's Scared by Stephen Carter. This will not only help you, but also your wife to understand your phobia. It is essential that you let your wife in on your problem, she really does need to know and understand the problem if you are both going to be able to make your marriage work. I've left you a reply on my thread also, I'd really appreciate it if you have the time to read it, there's a couple of questions there that I wanted to ask you, to maybe help me answer some things about my situation that I'm unsure about. Thanks. Link to post Share on other sites
LisaUk Posted July 4, 2009 Share Posted July 4, 2009 Hi Helter, just wondering how you are doing? I found a commitment phobic forum but it only has 9 members and they don't seem to post much! Will keep looking for others for support for you. Any luck with the clinical psychologist yet? Hope all is going ok at home. Link to post Share on other sites
lupa Posted July 4, 2009 Share Posted July 4, 2009 Hi Helter, just wondering how you are doing? I found a commitment phobic forum but it only has 9 members and they don't seem to post much! I'm sorry, I'm not making light of anyone's problems...but a commitment-phobe forum with only 9 members is a touch of subtle irony that made me smile. Hope the humor isn't insulting, but c'mon... Link to post Share on other sites
LisaUk Posted July 4, 2009 Share Posted July 4, 2009 I'm sorry, I'm not making light of anyone's problems...but a commitment-phobe forum with only 9 members is a touch of subtle irony that made me smile. Hope the humor isn't insulting, but c'mon... Lupa, I know that was why the exclamation point. Link to post Share on other sites
LisaUk Posted July 4, 2009 Share Posted July 4, 2009 I think you are saying they can't commit to posting? Link to post Share on other sites
lupa Posted July 4, 2009 Share Posted July 4, 2009 They can't commit to anything. Link to post Share on other sites
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