Why many men in the west are reluctant to get married

[Woggle]

Except for the fact that this does not explain why a man in his later years who does not plan to have any more children is so scared of getting married.

 

No, not on purpose. But if women are so heartless like some people on this forum are making them out to be, then all they need to do is get pregnant without the man's consent. After all, how many men are still using condoms when they are in a long-term relationship and not relying on the women to use birth control?

 

And it happened to my current boyfriend. He was dating a woman whose biological clock was ticking and decided to stop using birth control without his knowledge. She kept the baby, and he is paying child support.

 

He has probably seen many men he knows get burned and he is afraid. Women like what I describe are making it hard for the few good and loving women that are out there because men are afraid to take the gamble.

[BUENG1]

This thread cracks me up even more now.

 

Two days ago I watched an interview of the man who made other men irrelevant.

 

Here is what I mean:

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-511391/Death-father-British-scientists-discover-turn-womens-bone-marrow-sperm.html

 

This is scary stuff. Nature shows an all female population would cause population numers to sky rocket and the species that have had this happen starve for lack of enough food to go around.

 

Will women still choose to marry and procreate the normal way?

 

The same reason they marry and procreate today? A non anonymous father isn't necessary to have a child. I'd guess the roughly the same percentage who choose to get artificial insemination and raise children by themselves. I don't see in the article where you come to conclusion that men will become extinct either. It mentions in the article that gay men can have their own children this way.

[sally4sara]

The same reason they marry and procreate today? A non anonymous father isn't necessary to have a child. I'd guess the roughly the same percentage who choose to get artificial insemination and raise children by themselves. I don't see in the article where you come to conclusion that men will become extinct either. It mentions in the article that gay men can have their own children this way.

 

Gay men will still need a female to carry the child.

[Taramere]

If a man's deeply cynical about women and marriage, it takes a special kind of woman to talk him around. That is, the kind of woman who will say and do whatever it takes, however unethical and dishonest, to win a challenge. The same is probably true regarding cynical women and the men who manage to talk them round.

[Trialbyfire]

What if we believe in the social contract but not the legal one? Can we get married too?

No, you're not allowed if you don't believe in the concept in its sunshine and lollipops entirety.

[clv0116]

A guy I'm very close to got married 20 years ago, he was 24, she was 40. He was just finishing up his education as a budding professional, she was working part time as a janitor. They were married 18 years, he was 42 and she was 58 when they divorced. There were no kids, and she quit working and never worked for the entire duration of the marriage. Instead she took up her lifetime hobby full time while he earned their living.

 

He claims she lost interest in sex. She claims all he wanted was sex all the time. He says 4-6 times a week is not 'all the time'. Whatever.

 

In the divorce he gave her the vast majority of their investments (over $300,000) so he wouldn't have to pay Spousal Support to her for the rest of her life. He kept $65,000 in employee stock options and all the marital debt, then promptly filed bankruptcy.

 

Maybe he's crazy but I don't believe he finds his life was enriched by this experience.

[clv0116]

No, you're not allowed if you don't believe in the concept in its sunshine and lollipops entirety.

 

Well, I do believe in sunshine and lollipops. Is there some sort of class I can take or waiver that can be signed?

[Thaddeus]

No, you're not allowed if you don't believe in the concept in its sunshine and lollipops entirety.

Recently on the BBC web site there was an article which outlined the British Conservative Party's plan to introduce a three-month waiting period for separated couples to give them some time to "cool off" before starting legal divorce proceedings.

 

In the article, it was stated that young people (in the UK where the research was done) have unreasonably high expectations of marriage.

 

If I can find the link I'll post it. But the point is that we in the west are sold on this idea of marriage being all "sunshine and lollipops," an eternal series of blissful moments and mutual orgasms when the reality is far, far different.

 

*edited to add*

 

Found the link: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/8146487.stm

 

Mr Duncan Smith told the BBC that compared to their grandparents, young people had "very high" expectations of marriage "far beyond actually what it will deliver".

[Taramere]

If I can find the link I'll post it. But the point is that we in the west are sold on this idea of marriage being all "sunshine and lollipops," an eternal series of blissful moments and mutual orgasms when the reality is far, far different.

 

I don't doubt it....but the fact that people don't always behave like adults or have adult expectations doesn't justify introducing a more oppressive, nannyish legal system to control them.

[Thaddeus]

I don't doubt it....but the fact that people don't always behave like adults or have adult expectations doesn't justify introducing a more oppressive, nannyish legal system to control them.

I don't disagree with anything you've written here. But you know what conservatives are like - they're all for smaller government and getting government out of people's personal lives, except sometimes...

[Trialbyfire]

I was being facetious to an extent although from personal anecdoetal experiences with my relationships and the marriages around me, the more people love each other and are compatible, the better and longer term, the marriage.

 

Business contracts and forms of settling, appear to have a shelf-life.

[clv0116]

I don't disagree with anything you've written here. But you know what conservatives are like - they're all for smaller government and getting government out of people's personal lives, except sometimes...

 

I don't think the government needs to be in the love-licensing business at all, but that's a different thread I guess.

[Thaddeus]

I don't think the government needs to be in the love-licensing business at all, but that's a different thread I guess.

If you're referring to marriage contracts (are you? I can't be sure), that's a legal and financial contract and has precious little to do with love. But the wedding industry uses the whole notion of romance and love as a cash cow, and it's working. The wedding industry is a HUGE money-maker.

 

But you're right... that's a topic for another thread entirely.

 

[/hijack]

[subdued]

Why would a man who doesn't want kids GET married?

 

For the same reason my mom and her second husband got married, and my grandmother and her second husband got married, and my grandfather and his second wife got married. Because they love each other.

[clv0116]

For the same reason my mom and her second husband got married, and my grandmother and her second husband got married, and my grandfather and his second wife got married. Because they love each other.

 

I love my brothers and my sister, but I'm not marrying them either.

[subdued]

I love my brothers and my sister, but I'm not marrying them either.

 

Love between siblings is very different than love between a husband and wife, or have you never experienced such love; so you don't know this.

 

You really don't know what you are missing out on. I have seen many wonderful marriages. My grandfather was so in love with his second wife that he quit drinking for her. He used to be a drunk that slept on park benches. He went to AA, stopped drinking, and they got married. This was something like 50 years ago when AA was brand new. They were very much in love for the remainder of their days. He ended up committing suicide after he lost his wife to Alzheimer's. He was so in love with her that he didn't want to live without her.

 

But you will never understand such love because you are too wrapped up in fear that your spouse is going to take your money that you will not allow yourself to fall so deeply in love.

 

And no, living together is not the same as being married. Living together lacks commitment. It lacks the passion that only a marriage can bring of two people who are committed to be united for life.

 

I feel sorry for you.

[Trialbyfire]

subdued, don't feel sorry for anyone. This is the life they choose. Also, not everyone is capable of deep emotion, whether it's because they're afraid of being hurt or that they don't know how to love deeply. It is what it is.

[carhill]

Also, not everyone is capable of deep emotion, whether it's because they're afraid of being hurt or that they don't know how to love deeply. It is what it is.

 

Echo that, with the relatively recent understanding (life-time wise) that such wasn't confined to the male gender. Really good perspective. Acceptance.

[clv0116]

And no, living together is not the same as being married. Living together lacks commitment. It lacks the passion that only a marriage can bring of two people who are committed to be united for life.

 

I feel sorry for you.

 

That I agree with. Not the sorry part, the first part. If you want to argue that there are plenty of other people here who will argue it, I know they argued with me when I said it.

[Darkrunner]

Marriage has always been a sham for men. After two or three years of dating someone the hinting, pressuring and whining about marriage starts. I'm quite frankly amazed at the number of men that give in to their significant other and go through with it. You (men) gain nothing, so why do it? You're odds of financial destruction are amazing. Sure, you could sign a pre-nup, but again, what are you getting out of it?

 

And don't give me the "Oh she's the greatest thing ever and we love each other and it'll be amazing!" tripe. That's the same **** all the ruined men said on their wedding day, and now they live in their parents basement. Fortunately I didn't fall for that bull****.

 

And no, it's NOT a sign of commitment. Far from it. Take a look at the divorce industry in this country and look at all the "commitment". People who have a piece of paper are no more committed than two people living together.

[stillafool]

Can you explain your comment? I'd like to understand what your debate point might be, that would be beneficial to this thread, beyond promoting more bitterness and a lack of personal responsibility for choices.

 

 

My point is this: If I were a man I would not marry and I would have a vasectomy. I as a woman do not want children and if I were a man I would be responsible enough to protect myself against unwanted "child support". I don't see anything about my comment that promotes bitterness or a lack of personal responsibility for choices. Just the opposite! More men should not marry or have kids they do not want. Just get a vasectomy and stay single. Seems pretty simple to me!

[Taramere]

Marriage has always been a sham for men. After two or three years of dating someone the hinting, pressuring and whining about marriage starts. I'm quite frankly amazed at the number of men that give in to their significant other and go through with it. You (men) gain nothing, so why do it? You're odds of financial destruction are amazing. Sure, you could sign a pre-nup, but again, what are you getting out of it?

 

And don't give me the "Oh she's the greatest thing ever and we love each other and it'll be amazing!" tripe. That's the same **** all the ruined men said on their wedding day, and now they live in their parents basement. Fortunately I didn't fall for that bull****.

 

And no, it's NOT a sign of commitment. Far from it. Take a look at the divorce industry in this country and look at all the "commitment". People who have a piece of paper are no more committed than two people living together.

 

How do you feel when you look at another man who's married and who seems very happily so? Do you regard him as a fool and a liar to himself? Do you think that it's impossible for anyone who selects a different path from the one you've chosen to be genuinely happy?

 

I ask, because the tone of your post sounds bitter and angry, rather than happy. Whereas a lot of the married men who post on this forum have a laid back and cheerful sound in their tone. As do, of course, the single ones who are content that their decision to be single is the correct one for them personally.

[Woggle]

When I see a happily married man I see a man who is in denial about how his wife really feels about him. He thinks he has a great thing while she resents the hell out of him and is plotting to leave him.

[Woggle]

So this is how you see yourself then?

 

I am one of the rare exceptions but I admit I do assume the worst when it comes to male/female relationships until proven otherwise.

[Taramere]

I am one of the rare exceptions but I admit I do assume the worst when it comes to male/female relationships until proven otherwise.

 

It's black and white thinking, but nonetheless kind of sweet that you see your wife as one of the few worthwhile women left on earth. I just keep my fingers crossed for you that it does keep working out - because I rather dread to think what we'd see on this board from you if it ever went belly up.