Why many men in the west are reluctant to get married

[Woggle]

I don't view men as enemies. I view ignorance as a detriment and anyone who seems content to stay so a detriment.

I actually do like men and I am a feminist. I will never soundly reject that label because my beliefs are my beliefs because I believe they benefit everyone.

 

I know all women that call themselves feminists are not anti-male but the stigma that follows that word can be layed squarely at the feet of the misandists. If feminists groups stopped calling anybody who opposes the militant types some refer to as feminazis misogynists or part of the backlash maybe that word have a positive image again. Feminism is yet another movement that was hijacked by extremists who wanted no part of fairness or equality.

[FleshNBones]

I was in a choir in high school. I'm not now. Choirs?

 

As for responsibilities? I spoke about them much. I don't feel I said anything untoward. I simply said an equal partner to me would be a man who is just as capable as myself. If he ends up being at home with the domestic end OR if he ends up out earning money, we would be best suited to be interchangeble to be able to field what changes life might bring.

 

I simply said there is no "man's work" or "woman's work". It works well for us thanks.

Getting married huh. Whatever he was attracted to, it certainly wasn't your attitude.

 

I wonder if it is a bad attitude in regard to the more menial tasks. These tasks (scoff) are beneath you.

[sally4sara]

Getting married huh. Whatever he was attracted to, it certainly wasn't your attitude.

 

I wonder if it is a bad attitude in regard to the more menial tasks. These tasks (scoff) are beneath you.

 

What attitude?

 

I make a post talking about accepting all roles as needed when they arise with no regard to the gender of the person doing it. I posted saying the rigid rules don't fit every situation. I haven't said anything derogatory about men or even implied they are unable to fill any role as easily as a woman. I never said any task is beneath me or anyone else. I said the exact opposite. I said anyone desiring to get married should seek their equal in any task so either of them (they or their partner) can step in when life changes.

 

Somehow you still think I'm giving out attitude.

 

I am NOW, to YOU because you're acting like I did something to you. So tell me who it is that effed you over because I'd like to know who's face I'm wearing when you read my posts.

[FleshNBones]

What attitude?

 

I make a post talking about accepting all roles as needed when they arise with no regard to the gender of the person doing it. I posted saying the rigid rules don't fit every situation. I haven't said anything derogatory about men or even implied they are unable to fill any role as easily as a woman. I never said any task is beneath me or anyone else. I said the exact opposite. I said anyone desiring to get married should seek their equal in any task so either of them (they or their partner) can step in when life changes.

 

Somehow you still think I'm giving out attitude.

 

I am NOW, to YOU because you're acting like I did something to you. So tell me who it is that effed you over because I'd like to know who's face I'm wearing when you read my posts.

I don't care about roles. I care about RESPONSIBILITY.

If you want to live a scripted life, be my guest. I would prefer carving my own path in life.

 

Your belittling reeks of attitude. I wouldn't recommend it especially with something trivial.

 

In keeping with the main topic, I also brought up "bad attitude" because it seems to be another obstacle for men, and another reason why they would be reluctant to get married.

[sally4sara]

I don't care about roles. I care about RESPONSIBILITY.

If you want to live a scripted life, be my guest. I would prefer carving my own path in life.

 

Your belittling reeks of attitude. I wouldn't recommend it especially with something trivial.

 

In keeping with the main topic, I also brought up "bad attitude" because it seems to be another obstacle for men, and another reason why they would be reluctant to get married.

 

Well how about you don't bother quoting me without reading what I post and then I won't have to belittle you with my attempt to spell it out for you. In fact, you might just want to stick with not bothering to quote me at all.

 

I'll give you a clue: when I say roles, I AM talking about responsibilities! I'm talking about the responsibilities that traditional males seem to think have a gender assignment.

 

I think you've done a bang up job of illustrating how and why men struggle with bad attitudes. :lmao: A woman shares her views respectfully and you take offense and berate her till she gets fed up DOES dish you some crap. All so you can can conveniently say

"SEE! WIMMIN'S GOTS ATTITUDE!"

[FleshNBones]

I'll give you a clue: when I say roles, I AM talking about responsibilities! I'm talking about the responsibilities that traditional males seem to think have a gender assignment.

So you don't know what RESPONSIBILITY is. I sure hope this isn't a rampant problem.

 

Being a cheerleader (something you can relate to) is a role, and a cheerleader can have responsibilities.

 

Role is related to identity.

Responsibility is more like a required task. For example, feminists have neglected many responsibilities in their quest for a better role in society.

[sally4sara]

So you don't know what RESPONSIBILITY is. I sure hope this isn't a rampant problem.

 

Being a cheerleader (something you can relate to) is a role, and a cheerleader can have responsibilities.

 

Role is related to identity.

Responsibility is more like a required task. For example, feminists have neglected many responsibilities in their quest for a better role in society.

 

You're a silly little fella with nothing to do but play with semantics. Is that your only responsibility?

 

I won't entertain you any further.

[stillafool]

What attitude?

 

I make a post talking about accepting all roles as needed when they arise with no regard to the gender of the person doing it. I posted saying the rigid rules don't fit every situation. I haven't said anything derogatory about men or even implied they are unable to fill any role as easily as a woman. I never said any task is beneath me or anyone else. I said the exact opposite. I said anyone desiring to get married should seek their equal in any task so either of them (they or their partner) can step in when life changes.

 

Yes exactly! These are the points I took from your posts. I don't understand why you guys are picking on her. All she is saying is "equality" for all! Isn't that what you men want????? Gosh, you guys are so confusing. You say you are tired of golddiggers and lazy women who want to wait on their husband's paychecks and Sally is saying let every one make a ton of money and then if one of you loses your job the bills can still be paid. When a marriage is set up like this you don't have to worry about who does the dishes or mows the lawn ( the chores), you can hire someone to do those things.

[frankie881388]

If you don't like women, don't spend all your time hanging around pink websites that you know are frequented by a lot of women. If the other sex repels you to that extent, why the f*ck do you need to hang around all these cyber-women like a little lost puppy growling and yapping impotently? If you can't get a girlfriend, go to prostitutes for sex - and deal with the fact that contractually the prostitutes have a right to be paid for services rendered. And to charge double if the recipient of those services is as sad, desperate and most probably physically off-putting a character as you.

 

Hang on though. I'm guessing you're one of these who has a "love/hate" relationship with women. As in you love and need us. We hate you for your incessant whining and your endless need for attention from the very gender you profess to despise so much. At those rare times we're moved to anything other than complete indifference by you. And that's why you have to spend so much time either on here, trying to get any kind of female response you can.... or snivelling noisily on some website for half-men who had the sh*t kicked out of them by other guys all through school, and believe that misogynistic howling at the moon is a valid way of learning to bond with other men and get back the balls they never had to begin with.

 

Is that enough feminine bitchiness and OTT misandry to keep you yanking on your two inches for the next two hours? Or do you need some more negative attention? Presuming you've never been capable of garnering positive attention from women, and that's why you're so thirsty for the next best thing. You might be in luck. I'm sure I won't be the only woman on this board nursing a Sunday morning headache and looking for an easy target to vent it on.

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You really spelled it out didn't you? The website was made for women? In other words, when a man disagrees with you, he is wrong and should not speak his mind. Am I suppose to take a woman's word that women are for equality when we clearly is seeing an example of this type of attitude here?

[stillafool]

 

If women were denied access to their children the way men are in divorces there would be fewer women wanting divorces.

 

 

Says who?

[Taramere]

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You really spelled it out didn't you? The website was made for women?

 

Sure. The fact that it's pink would suggest to me that it was designed to appeal primarily to the female gender.

 

Naturally the fact that a lot of women gravitate towards it brings in men. Many of them men who actually like and enjoy talking to women. A few who have an almighty chip on their shoulder about women and think "splendid. A site with lots of women on it. Ideal stomping ground for me to vent some of my frustration."

 

In other words, when a man disagrees with you, he is wrong

 

Not always. I've encountered some very bright men who present a good intellectual challenge and who can beat me soundly in a debate. You won't be one of them.

 

and should not speak his mind.

 

Anyone can speak their mind. Whether it's a good idea for them to do so is another matter. The ones who are habitually outspoken and tough talking are often the ones who get the most steamed up and stressed out when others speak their mind.

 

Am I suppose to take a woman's word that women are for equality when we clearly is seeing an example of this type of attitude here?

 

How you interpret it is your affair. If you think I care enough to knock myself out trying to encourage you to see both sides, you're mistaken.

[Woggle]

I thought this was a relationship board for both genders and not for women? Nobody ever told me it was a woman only board.

[Taramere]

I thought this was a relationship board for both genders and not for women? Nobody ever told me it was a woman only board.

 

Given that it was started by a man, and that there's nothing in the rules stating "this is for wimmin only. Go away, men" I'm presuming both men and women are free to post on it. But as Frankie is already so steamed up, I thought it would be fun to watch him just completely explode. It gets a little tedious to keep trying to use reason and courtesy with people who are basically idiotic, frustrated wankers who are out to rant and argue about every bloody thing - regardless of how petty. That's one of the main reasons I can't really be bothered with this site lately.

 

Given that this site formatted in a pink, I'm guessing that the man who started it figured a higher proportion of women would be attracted to a support site dealing with relationship issues. You could always petition Tony to change the colours to, say, blue...or a striking fire engine red to make it look less feminine. If it's yet another burning issue on the site that needs to be addressed urgently.

[samspade]

I thought this was a relationship board for both genders and not for women? Nobody ever told me it was a woman only board.

 

It's for both, but you shouldn't come here looking for advice. Most of the women are bitter, angry, single, masculine Westerners, and most of the men are effeminate "nice guys" who fail with women.

 

I don't recommend marriage, but if you're going to do it, find a foreign woman form South America, Asia, or Africa. That is, unless you want a penis-less man.

[Thaddeus]

...most of the men are effeminate "nice guys" who fail with women.

Frankly, ss, I resent that.

[carhill]

LOL, I guess getting a divorce is 'fail' so guilty as charged

[Woggle]

Frankly, ss, I resent that.

 

It's the truth. There are men such as myself and Chrome Barracuda who give the uncensored male point of view and actually have a spine but most men on here seem like they have the deer on the headlights look while their women use and abuse them.

[Thaddeus]

It's the truth. There are men such as myself and Chrome Barracuda who give the uncensored male point of view and actually have a spine but most men on here seem like they have the deer on the headlights look while their women use and abuse them.

Maybe that's correct, but that's a judgement call and I have no desire to make it.

 

I just resent being lumped into a group that has no relationship to who I am based on someone else's biases.

 

Anyway, 'nuff said on that, from me anyhow.

[The Collector]

On-topic, I'd get married if I met the right girl.

[FleshNBones]

It's for both, but you shouldn't come here looking for advice. Most of the women are bitter, angry, single, masculine Westerners, and most of the men are effeminate "nice guys" who fail with women.

 

I don't recommend marriage, but if you're going to do it, find a foreign woman form South America, Asia, or Africa. That is, unless you want a penis-less man.

It seems like the women here want to role play while the men are left to deal with the responsibilities.

So who is goofing off now?

[bayouboi]

The advantages of marrying a feminist were covered in my previous posts where I talked about having a partner just as capable and willing to earn money as they are to care for children and home.

 

My mother is most certainly NOT a feminist. She always had a 40+hr/week job WHILE doing all of the cooking and cleaning. She also spent more time with us than our father did. In essence, she provided more than her share of the responsibilities in our home and a feminist she is NOT. She loathes the path our society is heading down with regard to the roles of women.

[bayouboi]

Given that this site formatted in a pink, I'm guessing that the man who started it figured a higher proportion of women would be attracted to a support site dealing with relationship issues.

 

Either my eyes or my browser is on the fritz because I see the site formatted in red. But I would agree with you that the fact that it deals with relationship issues would mean it's likely the population of women is higher than that of men.

[Phateless]

I read about a divorced guy who was earning $120k gross a year. After tax, alimony, and child support, guess what his take-home pay was?

 

I'll let you post your best guesses here, before I reveal the answer.

 

$40k.

 

Is the wife required to pay alimony if the children live with the husband?

[clv0116]

$40k.

 

Is the wife required to pay alimony if the children live with the husband?

 

As far as I know alimony and children are different issues, child support goes to a custodial parent.

[RickyAvon]

ChildSupport and Alimony are different issues. Working in finance, divorcees, and having a few family members already divorced I know these things all too well.

 

Alimony is income to a spouse (tax deductible to the payor) that is granted at the dissolution of a marriage. Calculating alimony depends on the two spouses, their respective careers, earnings potential, and income.

 

A woman who has earned nothing or very little may get a decent sum of money. An aunt and uncle of mine who divored lived a fairly lavish lifestyle. He earned between 300,000 and 750,000 during the boom years of the 90's, writing off much of their enjoyment through a business his family owned. They had a large house, 4 kids, a beautiful pool, took many trips, never held back on expenses, drove nice cars and always treated at family gatherings.

 

At the time they were filing for divorce, his business was also on the downturn and so his income declined resulting in adjustments to what her eventualy payments would be. The final divorce granted her 40% of everything OVER $100,000, UP to a cap of $220,000. So essentially she could only earn a MAX of about $40,000. She receives about $600 week, which is taxable. Another 'rub' is that for every 2 dollars of income OVER $20,000 she could earn doing PT work her alimony is reduced by 1 dollar.

 

The Child Support is factored in based on court estimated needs for the children AND the income of the family. It falls off as the children are emanicipated from the primary care-giving parent. Normally the parent paying the support takes the Child as dependents.

 

She can claim no one but herself. She receives $20,000 a year in alimony, potential 'bonus' alimony as he receives bonuses of another $20,000 (these are not guaranteed and are subject to his tinkering), and about $40,000 child alimony, upon which she loses 25% as each child is emancipated from the home.

 

Her alimony is TAX free, but is meant to be used entirely for the children and is not reliable for the LT. He's often behind in payments, so paid he's swindled her out of $10,000 already. To get this back she has to determine whether the cost of a lawyer is worth the hassle of bringing him in to recoup the lost funds.

 

-------------------------------

 

Divorce is messy. Rarely are people logical when blood and emotion are involved, particularly women. In this case, my jewish uncle is a real a-hole and has not done a good job of tending to his kids. When he divorced, it turned out that my cousins had a half brother, as he actually roomed with 2 women prior to marrying my aunt; he knocked up both women! One of them received an abortion, the other had the kid without telling him. At 25 years old he sought my uncle out just to know him and my cousins. It was rather awkward for the kids, as it added more fuel to the fire of what was actually going on.

 

Very few people remain happily married all the life long. Most that stick with it, do it because the hassle of separating is too much or they are just too poor to afford living alone. From the financial side of things, I see married couples jointly earning 60,000. If they separated, there is no way either could survive in this world, enjoy life, have a retirement account, have solid insurance, and eat. 30k after taxes is around 25k depending on the state.

 

I'm not saying I'm NOT for marriage, but the pressures of living in this country, our current economic recession, the expectations of marriage and modern women make the likelihood VERY unlikely that marriage will last. In fact, odds are good the % of relationships that suffer a fall out will INCREASE, simply because of the economy.

 

Many people, particularly women, buy a QUALITY or STANDARD of life from a man. We need to throw away the dreamy aspects of marriage and see reality for what it is so we can get back to having meaningful relationships. When people enter any relationship with lofty expectations akin to "Sex and the City" it is doomed to fail from the get go. In all my experiences, there are not shortages of women who feel much like Carrie or any of those dames.