Not Crossing the Line

[oysterman]

I'm married and early 50's, she's married and late 30's and we're close friends...we both care deeply for one another but have vowed to not 'cross the line'...we have long, intense talks and have the whole "chemistry" thing going (when our eyes meet it's like we can see each other's soul)...biggest challenge is not crossing the line into physical terriotory. Have tried the NC route...way too painful and never works for either of us. Maybe this is just an explosion waiting to happen?

[norajane]

As a man in your 50's, you ought to understand by now that things don't "just happen". It requires choices and actions to make things happen.

 

Take responsibility for your choices - it's not an inevitable explosion. Every call, every conversation, every glance - these are all choices you are making that are bringing you closer and closer to crossing the line.

 

You are in control of your own life and your own decisions. You can stop this, but you don't WANT to. You're already cheating on your wife in an emotional affair. I'm sure it must be flattering to have a young woman so into you, but do you really want to further damage your marriage?

 

If you choose not to cross the line, then the next thing you need to do is to back away from the line, farther and farther away. It's a choice. It's not out of your control.

[LucreziaBorgia]

The physical part doesn't really matter at this point. You are already so far over the line that you can't even pull back at this point. What would it matter if penis A slipped into vagina B? It may as well already be there.

 

Explosion is a good way to put it. The fireworks might be nice, but when you are standing in the blasted fallout looking at all you and she irrevocably destroyed around you you may wish you hadn't struck that match.

 

People always think about the pros of affairs - the high points, and rarely about how what they are going to do will affect everyone else.

 

If you are going to go into the affair, at least the two of you should sit down and acknowledge that you and she are going to hurt a lot of people, let down a lot of people, and eventually let down each other (unless your spouses kick the two of you out and then you'll be stuck with each other). Figure out what to do if one of you decides to stay married, while the other leaves or is cast out. Make sure that you and she talk about how you are going to handle it when your spouses find out (and they will, they always do). Make a plan for when your spouses expose your affair to your family, your coworkers, each other's spouse, the kids, etc. Understand that you and she will have to be consummate liars, and that your affair will only be as strong as the strongest lie. Learn to gaslight and lie to your wife and family, and she will need to learn to lie and gaslight her husband and family.

 

Hone the worst and most deceitful parts of yourself so that your affair will thrive.

 

When you and she crash, are you going to hold each other up or throw each other under the bus? Are you or she going to beg to stay married if you get busted? What if she gets pregnant, or either of you pick up an STD?

 

You gotta peel back that rug you and she are standing on and look at the scum underneath closely - because when it comes right down to it, that is what you will be dealing with eventually.

 

I know it sounds like a buzzkill - but seriously, you really shouldn't go into something like this without fully understanding exactly what it is you are doing besides finding a way to each other's genitals, and the fallout that will occur as a result.

 

I'm saying this not as a betrayed person, but as someone who cheated repeatedly in nearly every relationship. I never considered the ugly stuff, though one or two times it caught up with me and I found myself wishing I had just kept my mouth shut and jerked off quietly instead.

[Awesome84]

Are you sure the 'intense chemistry' isn't just two friends waiting to have sex?? Trust me... I've been there.

 

This friendship will never work if the two of you are attracted to each other. And to make matters worse...you are both married. It would be different if you guys were single and then you could see where things could go....

 

This isn't an explosion waiting to happen... It's a disaster waiting to happen.

 

I think as much as it hurts... you NEED to go NC. Even if you two vow to just be friends... it still won't take away the intense desire.

 

Unless both of you plan on divorcing in order to be together.... there's no need to continue this type of friendship.

 

I know it's hard... but take it from me.... this won't lead to anywhere good. Sorry... Life just isn't fair sometimes (I know...I've been down this road before and it causes alot of heartache in the end).

[TaraMaiden]

Yup.

Sorry, but I agree with the others.

You've already strayed into forbidden territory and are indulging in an affair, albeit emotional.

if you really don't think this is true, tell your respective spouses all about it.

 

See?

You wouldn't - couldn't - dare.

 

So now what are you going to do, huh?

[oysterman]

Thanks all who chipped in...what's sad is that we both know that it's wrong but with each other, we find what's missing in our respective 'deficient' marriages (isn't that always the case, huh). The grass always looks greener, I know...and I have tried to both rationalize the EA and create a plan to back away from the line...she is better at attempting NC but we both ultimately give in when we try. The pain goes on...

[TaraMaiden]

And the pain is self-inflicted.

There's something oddly 'pleasurable' about it, because it adds a frisson of excitement to your days.

Balance this up with the hurt your respective partners would feel, and it's not such a pleasant feeling.

You really owe it to yourselves and to your spouses to come to a decision:

 

Clean break.

 

With your spouses, or with each other.

 

It really does come down to that, because straddling the fence with a foot in both camps only destabilises everything.

Time for a bit of good ol' fashioned straight talking and crunch-time decision making.

[Awesome84]

The pain goes on...

 

I know it hurts Oyster... I've been in love with someone who was taken before and it's almost as if I can feel your heartache.

 

If she's better at NC, you need to be like her! It's going to hurt BAD... for awhile but in the long run... it's best.

 

Why not try and think of all the things that made you fall in love with your wife?? And try to get back to the point where the two of you were smitten. Marriages take work and if you are focusing your energy on someone else, then you are starving your marriage of what it could be.

 

If there's something your wife isn't doing for you... talk to her about it. There's a reason you married her right??? Try not to forget that.

 

On the other hand, if you really do not love your wife than that is another issue that you need to deal with (w/o resorting to an EA).

[norajane]

Marriages take work and if you are focusing your energy on someone else, then you are starving your marriage of what it could be.

 

Yes, please consider how much more intimate and loving your marriage could be if you were to share all your thoughts and feelings with your wife in the way you do with your "friend". Consider how much more fun your marriage could be if you flirted with your wife and looked at her like you do your "friend".

 

If you make no effort in your marriage, and put all your efforts into this other relationship, you are creating more and more distance between you and your wife. You can reverse that. Believe me, if you were to treat your wife like she was your soul mate, you'd be surprised how she will respond to that and can actually become your soul mate.

 

Yeah, of course you get a little bored after many years of marriage. Same thing would happen if you were to magically be with your friend. In a few years, you'd be a little bored with her, too. Marriage takes effort, a lot of it, to keep the relationship strong. Turning your attention elsewhere just weakens it.

[oysterman]

All of the advice is greatly appreciated...have tried getting excitement back into marriage SO many times before...she just doesn't seem to want to talk...and more than one female friend has said it isn't me (no, I'm not a serial adulturer)_...so, I am going to try NC - tried starting today and friend emails me within 3 hrs...it hurts not to respond. We'll see how long I can do it...taking wife on nice vacation to Italy in mid-July - maybe I can get a spark back and re-live what caused us to marry to begin with (did I mention we've been married 30 yrs!). Thanks again for support and advice...

[Stark]

An emotional affair is just as bad as a physical one.

 

If I found out my partner was emotionally involved with someone and saying things that should only be said to me I'd be just as hurt as if she screwed someone else, there's really no difference at all.

 

she is better at attempting NC but we both ultimately give in when we try. The pain goes on...

 

Every time you go NC and think about the pain involved.........think instead about how your wife would feel when she finds out, your kids hating you, that your wife goes into a state of depression and turns into an alcoholic, contemplating suicide, everyone you've ever known will look at you a different way were they to find out

 

Yeah, might not be true, infact I made them be unpleasant just for the train of thought might not be nice thoughts, but sure as hell will take any pain or temptation away from the other thoughts, if you have any shred of decency (like it seems you do, only you shouldn't even be in this position), the thoughts over the things I mentioned will wake you the hell up every time.

[Awesome84]

I am going to try NC - tried starting today and friend emails me within 3 hrs...it hurts not to respond. We'll see how long I can do it...taking wife on nice vacation to Italy in mid-July - maybe I can get a spark back and re-live what caused us to marry to begin with (did I mention we've been married 30 yrs!). Thanks again for support and advice...

 

Good job on trying NC and taking wife on a vacation. Also, if the NC gets too hard, just polietly tell your friend that this friendship isn't healthy and you need to not talk anymore. She should understand since you say she's better at NC anyway.

[Mary3]

I think this goes much deeper than being attracted to her. It sounds like you love her.

 

That explains the misery and pain you both go through not talking to one another .

 

I do know this. Chemistry is usually forever. If this woman is the true deep love soul mate , then nothing , even time , will change the draw to one another. I had not seen an old bf in 10 years and the chemistry was still there. Never imagined that would be possible.

 

I know many here advocate saving your marraige. But what kind of marriage do you have ?

Is your wife still interested in the physical ? Does she communicate with you ? If the answer is NO , then you are ripe to branch out and fall very deeply in love with this other women.

 

Its a spark in the dry forrest ready to ignite.

 

Do you really still want to be married knowing the real true soul mate could be the other woman ?

 

Not advocating divorce here . Just know the power of chemistry . I do not think chemistry is all sexual...

[oysterman]

You're perceptive, Mary3...wife isn't really into physical and has never been very affectionate...and she doesn't seem to want to talk - I have tried so many ways to just communicate. The chemistry between me and the "OW" doesn't seem to be as much physical but is relationship...we talk for hours - literally - and share things we probably shouldn't. She is not in love with her husband anymore (he's cheated on her)...if we weren't both married, we'd probably be together. Haven't heard from her in 24 hrs and it's killing me!

[TaraMaiden]

Well, check my posts (#5 & #7) and act upon them. Decide what it is you want, stop prevaricating and do something.

Don't prolong the agony for everyone.

 

Come on tiger, show some backbone!

[Mary3]

You're perceptive, Mary3...wife isn't really into physical and has never been very affectionate...and she doesn't seem to want to talk - I have tried so many ways to just communicate. The chemistry between me and the "OW" doesn't seem to be as much physical but is relationship...we talk for hours - literally - and share things we probably shouldn't. She is not in love with her husband anymore (he's cheated on her)...if we weren't both married, we'd probably be together. Haven't heard from her in 24 hrs and it's killing me!

 

So the readers here understand that Oysterman is not get any of his needs met and is finding them amazingly with someone else. Everyone here may want him to work it out but it does not seem like his marriage is providing all this needs. His wife should be talked to but if she isnt giving these things then Oysterman feels slighted and is finding them somewhere else.

 

How long should Oysterman live without sex ? Love ? Affection ? Conversation ?

 

Why have you not heard from her ?

[oysterman]

I have maybe 20-25 years left here...will I spend them miserable or perhaps find some semblance of happiness for what little time I have left?

[mental_traveller]

I have maybe 20-25 years left here...will I spend them miserable or perhaps find some semblance of happiness for what little time I have left?

 

The latter. The way to do that is tell your wife your marriage sucks and you've had enough so it's divorce time. Get your paramour to do the same and then you can be together without all the crazy stupidity and lies of an affair. If it doesn't work out then you are single and can do what you want.

 

And don't forget your wife's interests - doesn't she deserve, in her limited time left, some semblance of honesty so she can choose whether she wants to be a betrayed wife or a divorcee free to find someone who loves being married to her?

[oysterman]

So, my friend is trying to work her marriage out - husband is controlling and jealous of any man she talks with...she feels guilty about our friendship but doesn't want it to end. I have asked if she wants me to "go away" - she does not. We want more alone time to talk. There is no physical aspect to our relationship (yet?). My marriage continues to stumble along...minus any meaningful emotional component. And my wife and my friend are acquaintances, which makes this worse.

 

The saga continues...

[kmm111]

Oysterman,

I am going thru a very similar situation as you and was wondering how things are going? I see it's been a month or so since you last posted. I know it's so hard

[oysterman]

kmm - things are the same; summer has brought vacations for both of us, so we haven't been able to talk as much as usual; when we can talk, we spend a lot of time; the talks become more intimate as we go. Will work with her next Saturday (just the 2 of us) and she is anxious to have time alone to talk. She has much more stress in her marriage than I - her husband has major work stress and has taken it out on her. What is your situation and are you the M or W? I am very interested in your perspective.

[carhill]

Having gone through this (read my journals), IMO, it's best to suspend the friendship and clarify whether you're going to remain in the M or leave. MC helped me with that process.

 

Think about this.... how will you feel if you, for reasons only applicable to your M, divorce, and your friend remains married? Interesting, isn't it.

 

Do the work and the answers will come. IMO, you're too bogged down in the rubber band and fog right now. Some professional help should work if you want clarity. If you don't, then continue and reconcile that choice. Best wishes

[oysterman]

We continue to become closer...her H didn't even get her a card for their anniversary...we talk or e-mail at least daily...this week we met for a walk in a secluded park...just to talk and walk...there is a chemistry between us I can't explain...almost electrical. Still "just friends", though...we're helping each other through the struggles of life. So, at this point, we have been disciplined enough to avoid a PA....but it is one hell of an EA.

[arcsigner]

You should tell your wife. Play it down if you have to but tell her if you want the marriage to work, tell her you have a crush and tell her who it is if she knows her. She will probally hate you for it, yes but it could bring you guys closer together. Admit to her you have a problem and that your struggling with this, maybe she will support you in getting marriage counciling or something, also it will make NC so much easier as your wife will be checking on you all the time to make sure becuase she knows who she is/you ahve feelings for her. And maybe it will re-kindle your marraige, maybe your wife might realise in some way she needs to try harder as your falling for other girls. Your wife could help you through this, if she loves you she will help you get over thsi girl and strengthen the marraige. Also if you tell her its no longer an exciting little thing between you and this girl, not not young and thrilling anymore, it would become something bad that you don't want. And it will mean your not keeping probally the msot important thing in your life at the moment from your wife, i mean trust is everything in a marraige. Thats my advice anyways.