A little moral support

[crookedsoul]

I emailed my friend, and he says he knew nothing, which my husband confirmed, saying also that 'he's your friend, not mine'...there is so much I don't understand here. My friend has just called on the phone, wanting to come and bash in my husband's skull. Not sure how to feel about that response.

 

My wonderful nanny has taken my daughter to stay at our apartment in town for a few days' 'girls only adventure', to give me time to sort this out, bless her heart. I don't know what will happen, but I do know that it will be alright eventually, one way or another.

 

Thanks to everyone who took the time to listen and advise me. I hope you all find peace and love and someone to share it with.

[Athena]

 

Thanks to everyone who took the time to listen and advise me. I hope you all find peace and love and someone to share it with.

 

Crooked, you are still in Shock. Please don't think you have to write this thread off... you are able to come back at any time and update and/or vent, ask for advice, etc

 

I think you are going to need a lot of support.

 

And, please don't be embarrassed to tell your friends and a few family members what is going on with you. This is not a reflection of your failure, this is about your needing help. Reach out for it.

[crookedsoul]

Wise and kind as ever, Athena, thank you once again.

 

I have spoken with my parents and brothers, and their reaction has been rather similar to yours. I still don't know how I feel about it all, although everyone else seems quite sure that I should get a divorce in short order.

I certainly cannot imagine tolerating an 'open marriage', one is either committed or not. It might be difficult to maintain a comitted relationship by myself, though. I am beginning to want to laugh at the absurdity of this situation, but am constantly brought up short by the thought of how utterly devastating the trauma of divorce would be for my daughter, and for my husband, who currently relies upon me for so much, despite his apparent resentment of it.

 

I am taking some time away from my business, so that I won't see or need to speak to my friend at all, while I attempt to sort through this quagmire. All will be well, eventually, although I can't imagine quite how that might come to pass, at this juncture.

 

I will let you know what happens, and will ask if I need further advice. Thank you all so much, especially you, Athena.

[Athena]

Wise and kind as ever, Athena, thank you once again.

 

I have spoken with my parents and brothers, and their reaction has been rather similar to yours. I still don't know how I feel about it all, although everyone else seems quite sure that I should get a divorce in short order.

I certainly cannot imagine tolerating an 'open marriage', one is either committed or not. It might be difficult to maintain a comitted relationship by myself, though. I am beginning to want to laugh at the absurdity of this situation, but am constantly brought up short by the thought of how utterly devastating the trauma of divorce would be for my daughter, and for my husband, who currently relies upon me for so much, despite his apparent resentment of it.

 

I am taking some time away from my business, so that I won't see or need to speak to my friend at all, while I attempt to sort through this quagmire. All will be well, eventually, although I can't imagine quite how that might come to pass, at this juncture.

 

I will let you know what happens, and will ask if I need further advice. Thank you all so much, especially you, Athena.

 

You are most welcome, Crookedsoul

 

I sense you are feeling Guilt... this may be holding you tethered to your H, who appears disabled, yet well abled enough to be having an affair with another woman... perhaps he is just milking it for all it's worth.

You are going to have to reach your Anger, before striking out to doing what's best for you and your daughter.

I cannot imagine that you will be able to hold your M together, carrying a dead weight like this -- as you know, the saying goes, "It takes Two to make a Marriage, but only One to end it"

[PhoenixRise]

Crookedsoul

 

I am so sorry for this pain that you must be feeling.

 

I hope the next emotion you feel is extreme anger.

 

You have suffered for 5 years in a sexless, emotionless marriage. You have done everything in your power to support and take care of your husband because you are the kind of woman who takes her vows seriously. Your husband deliberately withheld intimacy and sex from you to punish you for being a good woman and wife. He took what you have been starving for and blithely gave it away to someone else, another woman who has NOT been breaking her neck to take care of him. He also deliberately pushed you to the point where you would inflict harm on yourself by breaking the vows that mean so much to you.

 

Your husband WANTED to hurt you and he did. Your husband wanted and expected to see you suffer when you gave up your morals to reach out for the affection that you need and deserve and that HE deliberately withheld from you.

 

When you saw that you were in an emotional entanglement that was inappropriate for a married woman you felt tremendous guilt and took steps to try to make it right. You deserve far better treatment than you have recieved from your husband.

 

Crookedsoul, if you stay with your H what will you do? You have done everything a wife should do when her husband is ill and more. Will you stop being a good wife? Stop taking care of him? Stop being the breadwinner? He punished and deliberately hurt you for doing the right thing.

 

Are you being completely honest with yourself when you say that he has always been respectful and treated you well?

 

He deliberately made you suffer and be lonely in the marriage for over a year while he made damn sure HIS needs were taken care of. I don't think this kind of behavior can be a one time thing.

 

Whatever you decide to to I wish you the best of luck.

[Mr. Lucky]

I'm sorry, Adunaphel, that sounded as if I were attacking you, please forgive me. Thank you for your support. I do indeed need to take some time and work out how I ought to feel about al of this. I am going to email the other man and ask him about it. I have to know. I will not sneak around about it though, I will let my husband see what I have written, and any response that folows, if he cares enough to want to read them. There has been far too much dishonesty on both sides here, already.

I think you're overlapping two unconnected things - the state of your marriage and your outside relationship. You'll have much more success and avoid a ton of drama if you go NC with your co-worker until you sort things out. You've had alot dropped on you in the last 24 hours and have some life-changing decisions ahead that affect you, your H and child. Go or stay? Work on your M or bail? How do you tell your child? If one of you moves out, who and where? If you start MC, when and where?

 

You don't want or need another relationship on your plate while you go through this. And if your co-worker has been through this in his own marriage and divorce, he'll understand and back off. One thing at a time...

 

Mr. Lucky

[crookedsoul]

You're right, Mr Lucky, and I'm already doing that. I still don't know quite what I'm going to do, all I do know that my daughter's welfare is what's most important now. Thanks.

 

I am taking some time away from my business, so that I won't see or need to speak to my friend at all, while I attempt to sort through this quagmire. All will be well, eventually, although I can't imagine quite how that might come to pass, at this juncture.

[crookedsoul]

My husband says he is not prepared to engage with a counsellor and I doubt there is anything to be gained from it if he were, considering that he was seeing another woman during the last year of therapy we embarked upon together.

 

It is beginning to look to me as if divorce might be the only realistic option at this point. I feel like a comlete failure.

[Athena]

My husband says he is not prepared to engage with a counsellor and I doubt there is anything to be gained from it if he were, considering that he was seeing another woman during the last year of therapy we embarked upon together.

 

It is beginning to look to me as if divorce might be the only realistic option at this point. I feel like a comlete failure.

 

I had assumed he would not go the course of a counselor since he had been lying through his teeth to the last one for so long. Tell me, have YOU contacted the same old counselor? I do think you should, for yourself. Go in and get them up to speed, I think it might be revealing for you.

 

So, if you cannot force your H to do marital counseling, and he is the way he is, and not remorseful or regretful, then yes, I do think divorce is the only option he leaves open to you.

He appears not to be as attached and emotionally committed to you as you have been to him. He also seems to be a conflict avoider -- having just passive-aggressively kept his distance from you without getting involved. I do feel for you. You seem to have no other choice -- its the one he's been grooming you for the last couple of years.

 

You need to start seeing him for the person he really is. That's how you will help yourself to detach and emotionally disconnect from him. How can you possibly go through a divorce if your heart is still entangled in his?

 

Please seek strong legal counsel, and do not 'give' more than the lawyer suggests... protect your future. Your H has turned out to be more of a stranger to you than the man you thought he was. Be careful he is not still a con man to you. Sorry to be blunt. Hope you are doing okay, as well as can be expected. Are you managing to eat/sleep?

[Athena]

copied and pasted from: http://www.heartrelationships.com/ARTICLES/ClosureAndLoss/breakingup.htm

 

<<<<BREAKING UP REQUIRES EFFECTIVE CLOSURE

 

Dear Neil: I was in a two year relationship with a fifty year old man who asked me to marry him. But Bob had both second thoughts and anxiety attacks, and eventually he ended the relationship saying: "I don't want to talk anymore, and I don't have to tell you why I don't want to marry you."

 

I had no feedback from him about what happened, and subsequently there was no closure for me. It's now been eleven months, and I still don't understand what happened. Not only do I want closure for myself, but I want some closure for my two, three and four year old nieces who visited us frequently when we were living together.

 

The girls still ask about him and why he's not around. I've answered these questions as best I can, but finally I asked Bob to talk to them. His response was "just distract them."

 

Can you write about the importance of closure in a relationship and how to achieve it?

 

Ruth

Milwaukee, Wisconsin

 

Dear Ruth: Putting closure to an intimate relationship which has ended is essential if you are wanting to move on. Closure consists of four components: figuring out what happened or what went wrong between the two of you; making peace with the relationship ending; figuring out what you can learn from the experience so you don't repeat the same scenario, and visioning a positive future for yourself with someone else.

 

The following questions are designed to assist you in gaining greater awareness of what happened, and how to make sense of your experience. On paper write:

 

* What you will miss about the relationship and about the person you are involved with

* What you will not miss

* Acknowledge what your role was in causing the problems in the relationship, or in assisting the relationship to fail.

* Lessons this experience has taught you

* Concerning this relationship, what are you sad about?

* Concerning this relationship, what would you do differently if you had to do it over again?

* What relationship skills do you need to develop or perfect in the future?

* Explore each of the following emotions carefully: anger, passion, loneliness, happiness, grief, pain, joy, guilt, shame, fear, terror, love, hate, resistance, depression, blame.

* What did you gain from the relationship? How are you richer, deeper or wiser because of the experience? What did the relationship give you that you are grateful for?

* What did your "ex" give you that you are grateful for?

* Concerning the relationship with your former mate, what are you willing to forgive?

* What are you wanting to be forgiven for?

* What are you willing to forgive yourself for?

 

Breaking up destroys the idea that if you only try hard enough--or love more--you will be able to fix or solve the problems so that things will get better again.

 

Letting go of the dream we create about a relationship--and about the future--is a whole lot harder than letting go of the person. Be willing to do this unfinished business of the heart.

 

"Seldom, or perhaps never, does a marriage develop into an individual relationship smoothly and without crisis; there is no coming to consciousness without pain."

 

Carl Jung

 

"When you're in love, you put up with things that, when you're out of love, you cite."

Miss Manners (Judith Martin)>>>>>>

[Reggie]

I didn't 'consider' anything. I didn't plan it. I deeply regret it and know that it must end. I'm guessing you must have been very badly hurt by someone, to assume that I might have intentionally and deliberately set out to hurt my husband as much as I possibly could. I would also have to be some kind of fool to come and post it here, if that was the case. You have my deepest sympathy, I hope you are happier now.

 

You are deeply in denial if you beleive the decision to cheat and your choice of a partner was not a choice. You are abdicating alll responsibility, something that will not serve you well in fixing what is broken within you.

Look, in its simplest terms, of course the decison to have a relationship with someone outside your marriage was your choice. You have free will, don't you?

And, again, you elected to do this with your H's friend. You cultivated that relationship with this particular person. The fact that I have expierienced a lot of pain has nothing to do with this analysis.

I challenge you to make a case for this not being a choice. If you are hinest, you will not try to do so.

[Reggie]

Well, I posted the above before reading the revelation about your H's despicable treatment. Does not mean the decison was a good one. But, he was subjecting you to the cruelest of abuses and I can see why you were desperate. Sorry about the above post.

Sounds like he is a Narcissisist and those folks are absolutely brutal.

[jnj express]

hey CSoul---Have you ever had an appointment with your H's Dr., just you, not with your H., to find out exactly how handicapped your H. actually is---Your situation seems strange to me, for many have heart problems, and still conduct normal lives. Your friend is not a friend to your daughter, for, even tho neither of you knew of your H.'s in fidelities, he by continuing toward a more passionate EA with you, was putting your family, and especially your daughter at risk. Also he doesn't have any right to even think about committing violence on your H. You and he are not tied together, and doesn't belong in your life while you are still married. IMHO you should step back and get away from both of these men. Seperate take your daughter with you, and just see how all of this plays out, with you going NC, on both your H, and AP. Take some time get away continue to conduct your business and calmly think about everything BY YOURSELF ALONE.

[Dexter Morgan]

I think you may be right, but I'm afraid. I'm afraid that telling my husband will cause all the pain that I so desperately want to avoid causing him, and that he will feel so betrayed that it might even cause the end of our marriage.

 

but if it did cause the end of your marriage, then you could have the sex you want.

 

because here is what WILL happen, whether you or anyone here will admit it or not. You already crossed the line confiding in another man and the both of you admitting feelings for one another.

 

So maybe the best thing would be for the marriage to end. Because its only a matter of time before you end up physically cheating on your husband. and if you think he'd be hurt by you admitting that you had an emotional attachment to a friend....just imagine the hurt he'd feel if he knew another man had been inside you.

[HsMomma]

CSoul,

 

Let me start by saying how very sorry I am for the situation in which you find yourself. Though you have received some wonderful advice here on this board (especially from Athena, whom I believe to be a living bit of wisdom), the one thing I haven't seen really touched on, other than by you, is your daughter.

 

A lot of people here have heard a good deal of my history, so I won't bore other readers with it...suffice it to say, when I divorced my ex-H (due to his serial cheating), our daughter was 4 years old, and adored her father. Over the next few years, I bit my tongue 'til it practically bled in order to never denigrate him in her eyes. It was a B*TCH to do, but the right thing for our child.

 

I have said it before, will say it again & mean it til my last breath: a child is better off with two parents living apart, but who are individually happy, than in a house with two parents living together miserably. Your daughter will adjust no matter what your final decision is. If you want to really do what's best for her, set the example for her of the RIGHT way to live. In other words, when I finally divorced my ex, what I wanted was to show my daughter that I was a strong enough woman to get out of a really bad situation and not only live, but THRIVE! You, too, can do that. You need to decide what's best for the TWO of you, with or without your husband.

 

I wish you peace and contentment in your decision. It won't be easy, but trust me, in the end, it's worth doing what's right for you & your child.

[Dexter Morgan]

Ok, now I'm thoroughly confused. Its as if you are changing up the story here, or REALLY omitted some things from the first page of your posts.

 

How do you go from:

 

I am 38, and married to a man whom I have often described as a prince among men, because he truly is. He loves me and has never treated me disrepectfully or done anything to deserve betrayal, and we have a daughter, aged 8.

 

In addition to the other things you have said in the first page, to this:??

 

My whole life has been a sham for years. I don't even know who it is I'm married to. What an idiot I am. Husband says that my working and paying all the bills, collecting his meds and generally taking care of business (he doesn't work - hasn't since his heart attack, six years ago) has emasculated him and that he can't imagine having anything to do with me physcially.

 

He says he didn't want to hurt me, at first, but he has grown resentful over the last two years, because I 'don't seem to need him'. He said that withholding physical affection was the only part of our marriage where he still had any power or control, and that his own needs forced him to look elsewhere.

 

Did something just recently change? Did you have a talk with him and all of a sudden find out he was involved with someone else?

 

So was he withholding affection the whole while able to meet your needs? Or is it still thought that he is medically incapable of meeting your needs?

 

I think in light of this the answer might be fairly clear........divorce.

[HsMomma]

Ok, now I'm thoroughly confused. Its as if you are changing up the story here, or REALLY omitted some things from the first page of your posts.

 

 

 

 

Did something just recently change? Did you have a talk with him and all of a sudden find out he was involved with someone else?

 

So was he withholding affection the whole while able to meet your needs? Or is it still thought that he is medically incapable of meeting your needs?

 

I think in light of this the answer might be fairly clear........divorce.

 

 

Yep, Dex, something did just recently change...it's ugly...go back a couple of pages & you'll see how she went from one extreme to the other...

[crookedsoul]

Athena and PhoenixRise, thank you, but you are offering more forgiveness than I deserve. I believed that everything in my marriage was fine, apart from a lack of physical affection, and thinking so, I allowed myself to get caught up with a friend. I confided in him about matters that should have been private between me and my husband, and I reciprocated when he expressed strong feelings for me. I was wrong in all of that.

 

I deserve whatever comes my way. If I hadn't chosen to confess in an attempt to assuage my own guilt, I would still have everything I thought I had, just a few days ago. If I hadn't concentrated so much on my business after my husband said he felt too ill to work, if I had spent more time at home, I might have seen things more clearly. I could have employed someone else and spent less time at work, I am not the only dentist on the planet. This is all my own doing.

 

My husband has said that if I divorce him, he will never admit adultery and that he will aim for sole custody of our daughter on the basis that he has been the more consistent parent, given the hours I have worked, over the past few years. He may be right. Perhaps I should just leave, but I would rather die than leave my daughter.

 

I think my choices are divorce and lose my daughter or stay married and move into our town apartment. My parents have arranged for me to see a lawyer the day after tomorrow, so I guess I should wait and see what he says...

 

On the plus side, my houesekeeper resigned this morning, as she said she wouldn't remain in my husband's employment. She says she'll consider taking up a similar position with me as her employer, if I do move into the apartment, not that I would need her there. I have some wonderful friends, like her, none of whom I deserve, and with their help, everything will be alright in the end.

 

I might not post here again, I think I just have to go and get on with what's left of my life now. Thanks, everyone.

[whichwayisup]

Hire a PI and get the info you need so you can have proof your husband actually is cheating on you. Write down his threats too and talk to a lawyer, but in the meantime, keep things at peace for a while at home so YOU can get strong and build a case against him. Just please stay away, far away from that other guy..

 

You won't lose your daughter, don't let him scare you.

[PhoenixRise]

Athena and PhoenixRise, thank you, but you are offering more forgiveness than I deserve. I believed that everything in my marriage was fine, apart from a lack of physical affection, and thinking so, I allowed myself to get caught up with a friend. I confided in him about matters that should have been private between me and my husband, and I reciprocated when he expressed strong feelings for me. I was wrong in all of that.

 

I think it is good that you want to take responsibility for your OWN actions. You got inappropriately attached to another man and that was wrong. You might not be able to face it right now, but what you husband did was emotionally abusive. Physical affection IS important. You accepted that you and your H couldn't have sex but HE witheld basic affection just to punish you.

 

I deserve whatever comes my way. If I hadn't chosen to confess in an attempt to assuage my own guilt, I would still have everything I thought I had, just a few days ago. If I hadn't concentrated so much on my business after my husband said he felt too ill to work, if I had spent more time at home, I might have seen things more clearly. I could have employed someone else and spent less time at work, I am not the only dentist on the planet. This is all my own doing.

 

Your H is not working and you are your family's breadwinner. It is normal under those circumstances foryou to concentrate on your work. The time you spent at work is not to blame for your H's affair or for the fact while he was starving you of affection he was getting his physical needs met with another woman. You did NOT deserve this.

 

My husband has said that if I divorce him, he will never admit adultery and that he will aim for sole custody of our daughter on the basis that he has been the more consistent parent, given the hours I have worked, over the past few years. He may be right. Perhaps I should just leave, but I would rather die than leave my daughter.

 

I think my choices are divorce and lose my daughter or stay married and move into our town apartment. My parents have arranged for me to see a lawyer the day after tomorrow, so I guess I should wait and see what he says...

 

Your husband sounds like a controlling bully. Hire a good PI to prove the adultery and find a good lawyer to advise you. Just because you H says he would get custody of your daughter does not make it so.

 

 

On the plus side, my houesekeeper resigned this morning, as she said she wouldn't remain in my husband's employment. She says she'll consider taking up a similar position with me as her employer, if I do move into the apartment, not that I would need her there. I have some wonderful friends, like her, none of whom I deserve, and with their help, everything will be alright in the end.

 

This makes me wonder if other people have seen your H more clearly than you have. Did your family even like him before they found out about all of this? You do deserve all the help and support you are getting. Your husband is blaming you for all his terrible and abusive behavior. You deserve better.

 

I might not post here again, I think I just have to go and get on with what's left of my life now. Thanks, everyone.

 

 

I hope eventually you get really angry about what your husband is doing. Yes it is good to take responsibility for ones own actions but it is also good to look at the whole picture and make sure you are not taking blame for someone else's actions.

 

There is no excuse for your husband deciding to win back his feelings of masculinity at your expense. He deliberately and intentionally starved you of the love and affection you needed and deserved and he did it because he wanted to break you. I hope he doesn't succeed.

 

Good Luck

[theBrokenMuse]

My husband has said that if I divorce him, he will never admit adultery and that he will aim for sole custody of our daughter on the basis that he has been the more consistent parent, given the hours I have worked, over the past few years. He may be right. Perhaps I should just leave, but I would rather die than leave my daughter.

 

 

And how exactly does a man that's too ill to work supposed to manage getting a place of his own that would include a bedroom for his child? Oh, and he hasn't had his child all the time ether. He is doing nothing at home but playing with some hoochey momma while having a Nanny handle your child! Do you have any idea how bad that will look in court for him? Honestly, when all is said and done at best he can get shared custody and even that is extremely iffy given the details and I'd bet anything that he knows it. He knows that his chances are poor but he is going to threaten you withg whatever will silence you and remove you from his life while keeping his money coming. The man is a leech and a contemptible subhuman being.

 

I don't know if this beating up on yourself is from self-pity or if you genuinely think that you deserve being s**t on by your husband for putting a roof over your head and food on the table because he couldn't handle it but you are coming across as being completely stripped of your self-esteem and self-worth which would be par for the course for the victim of an emotionally abusive individual like your husband.

 

If you don't try and fight your hardest to get your act together for your child that big flaw in his personality can destroy her the same way one day as it has you. Please see your husband for who he really is: He doesn't give a crap about you or his family. He cares about you footing his bill while he goes off and plays on your dime. He sees you as a cash cow and he is using his own child as a bargaining chip to keep the money rolling in his direction! Do loving fathers do that?

 

Find a real shark lawyer and start show him the door. Whatever you do DON'T LEAVE THE HOUSE. If you are the one that moves out even if you were to stay married for now it gives him ammunition to use in a divorce. You moving out without your child is considered abandonment, legally.

[Dexter Morgan]

My husband has said that if I divorce him, he will never admit adultery

 

doesn't matter if he admits it or not. adultery doesn't have a bearing on custody or division of marital assets. It should, but it doesn't.

 

 

 

and that he will aim for sole custody of our daughter on the basis that he has been the more consistent parent, given the hours I have worked, over the past few years.

 

I think he is fighting a losing battle on that one. Unless he is a stay-at-home-dad, I think he has no chance of getting sole custody unless he can prove you unfit. so unless you are a drug user, or abuse your child, you will get custody for one simple fact......you are the mother. trust me, THIS I know all to well.

 

 

He may be right. Perhaps I should just leave, but I would rather die than leave my daughter.

 

I think my choices are divorce and lose my daughter or stay married and move into our town apartment. My parents have arranged for me to see a lawyer the day after tomorrow, so I guess I should wait and see what he says...

 

I'm sure your lawyer would agree that unless he has something on you to prove you unfit, he is fighting a losing battle at getting custody.

[2sure]

OK. Look. Someone has to say it.

 

You are WAAYY too comfortable being the villain, feeling guilt, being a martyr, and rolling over. NONE of these things is what is best for your daughter. Your marriage is the height of dysfunction. The victim status you have assigned your H has been refused so you no longer have the part of sacrificing hero.

 

I know this is relative to what country you reside in ...but unless you are literally committed to an institution it is against all odds you will not retain custody of your daughter.

 

You want to reclaim and repair your marriage? Your H has declined. And spitefully has been declining for years. He has admitted to withholding affection and resentment for you...caused by...nothing. Now he says he will take your child if you dont put up with it.

 

He is not the victim here and you know it.

[jnj express]

I don't think you'll lose custody---you, even tho working are the more stable parent. Your H., has major physical problems, and is unemployed---and in the eyes of the court an EA, is not the same as a PA. You will get custody, you might end up paying some alimony tho.----You did wrong so did your H., get your Divorce and go your own way.

[silktricks]

I deserve whatever comes my way. If I hadn't chosen to confess in an attempt to assuage my own guilt, I would still have everything I thought I had, just a few days ago. If I hadn't concentrated so much on my business after my husband said he felt too ill to work, if I had spent more time at home, I might have seen things more clearly. I could have employed someone else and spent less time at work, I am not the only dentist on the planet. This is all my own doing.

 

{snip}

I might not post here again, I think I just have to go and get on with what's left of my life now. Thanks, everyone.

 

No, this is all your husband's doing. You didn't really have anything before you confessed. You were simply being tricked.

 

I hope you come back and let us all know how you are doing. There is a good group of people here who really are quite helpful. Good luck in whatever you do, though.