My MW just filed for divorce today...

[tami-chan]

What did chrome add? The guy admitted to cheating in the past and his relationship did start as lies.

 

Hmmm...check this out. :

 

What tami was reffering to was what I said, I got this guy confused with some other poster, my mistake it rarely happens to me...

 

whoops!

 

How about this?

 

That's the only reason you want a divorce, is because she lied to you about wanting to have a threesome!?!?

Seriously, Chrome...where are you getting your facts? You make up stories as you go along? this is what OP said:

 

...and I’m not going to leave her[/Quote]

 

<sigh>

[lkjh]

Tami, I was asking the question because the quote of chromes you had was the one you have up now. The quote you had up didn't have anything about the threesome

[tami-chan]

Tami, I was asking the question because the quote of chromes you had was the one you have up now. The quote you had up didn't have anything about the threesome

 

Maybe...BEFORE you jump on my case....you should've read the preceding posts, but you were so quick to "set me straight"...but I forgive you.

[Lyssa]

*Sigh*

 

It's everywhere.

[tami-chan]

*Sigh*

 

It's everywhere.

 

"It" is...LOL!!!!

[lkjh]

Maybe...BEFORE you jump on my case....you should've read the preceding posts, but you were so quick to "set me straight"...but I forgive you.

 

I was jumping on your case, I was asking a question because I didn't know what was going on.

[Tsuki no Michi]

Ya cheating on their mom is going to make the kids super duper in the long run

 

As I recall he said his kids were grown. He also said he had already gotten his divorce and broke it off with his MW, but then she chose to pursue divorce anyway. While the relationship may have started on poor footing, the solutions they both chose appear to be the correct ones if they wished to continue the relationship, i.e. terminate and move on.

 

Besides, in my opinion people place too high a value on only one possible lesson ("stay for the kids") that is taught to children and not enough on others. The reason kids are hurt in divorce is not because people cheat. It's because of the bitterness they witness between their two parents and the uncertainty and fear about what will happen to them. This happens in divorce regardless whether there is infidelity involved. When two parents who divorce actively work to make sure their kids are protected from such negative reenforcement children do indeed show considerable resilience.

 

TNM

[bentnotbroken]

As I recall he said his kids were grown. He also said he had already gotten his divorce and broke it off with his MW, but then she chose to pursue divorce anyway. While the relationship may have started on poor footing, the solutions they both chose appear to be the correct ones if they wished to continue the relationship, i.e. terminate and move on.

 

Besides, in my opinion people place too high a value on only one possible lesson ("stay for the kids") that is taught to children and not enough on others. The reason kids are hurt in divorce is not because people cheat. It's because of the bitterness they witness between their two parents and the uncertainty and fear about what will happen to them. This happens in divorce regardless whether there is infidelity involved. When two parents who divorce actively work to make sure their kids are protected from such negative reenforcement children do indeed show considerable resilience.

 

TNM

 

 

I am sure this is true in some cases, not all. Some children are deeply hurt no matter what the parents do. Some children witness their parents cheating, others are asked to help cover or used as cover. And this does happen in a lot of cases. Cheating spouses have even been known to introduce their children to the affair partner while still married and even living in the same home w/ the spouse and kids. Though an extreme situation, what about the kids of Steve McNair or the Gov. of S.C.? It won't matter what the parents do, it is a public issue that kids will have to deal with until the public forgets. Did we forget the cases where a BS or CS decides to kill the other, Betty Broderick anyone?

 

Your sentiment is a nice thought, and even possible in some situations. But to believe that is the case for all or even half is wishful thinking at best and foolish at worse. The pain that children feel is minimized by so many and discounted by others. Go to a school and see how it affects them. Some act out, other withdraw, still others bottle it up and put on a brave face, then years down the road when they are married and trying to have a healthy relationship....it comes out. Read NotSure7 thread. There is a shining example of a child that was affected and now so many others are paying for it.

[tami-chan]

As I recall he said his kids were grown. He also said he had already gotten his divorce and broke it off with his MW, but then she chose to pursue divorce anyway. While the relationship may have started on poor footing, the solutions they both chose appear to be the correct ones if they wished to continue the relationship, i.e. terminate and move on.

 

Besides, in my opinion people place too high a value on only one possible lesson ("stay for the kids") that is taught to children and not enough on others. The reason kids are hurt in divorce is not because people cheat. It's because of the bitterness they witness between their two parents and the uncertainty and fear about what will happen to them. This happens in divorce regardless whether there is infidelity involved. When two parents who divorce actively work to make sure their kids are protected from such negative reenforcement children do indeed show considerable resilience.

TNM

 

I agree with you, Tsuki-san...But anybody who has this view will be vilified by many here as someone who lives in "lalaland". I have always said that if adults can put aside their anger and bitterness to each other and just make sure that the kids know they are loved and that nothing in the divorce is about them(kids) the kids will be alright--not all but I wager, most would be.

 

But no, some of them think that because it IS(?) justified anger and bitterness, the scorned gets to carry that for as long as s/he wants at the expense of the children. Yes, it IS not fair because "making nice" requires a lot from the betrayed, but I would say, who cares? if it IS for the benefit of the children?

[fooled once]

I agree with you, Tsuki-san...But anybody who has this view will be vilified by many here as someone who lives in "lalaland". I have always said that if adults can put aside their anger and bitterness to each other and just make sure that the kids know they are loved and that nothing in the divorce is about them(kids) the kids will be alright--not all but I wager, most would be.

 

But no, some of them think that because it IS(?) justified anger and bitterness, the scorned gets to carry that for as long as s/he wants at the expense of the children. Yes, it IS not fair because "making nice" requires a lot from the betrayed, but I would say, who cares? if it IS for the benefit of the children?

 

Wow Tam - you sure do jump to conclusions and make sweeping generalizations

 

I agree with this

 

. When two parents who divorce actively work to make sure their kids are protected from such negative reenforcement children do indeed show considerable resilience.

But often you don't find 2 adults, especially one who has been lied to, cheated on, humiliated and disrespected - be able to work together for the kids.

 

And more often than not, the new person who either was the OM/OW, decides to get involved in the divorce by digging up dirt on the STB EX, pushing their new mate to stick it to the STB EX, etc.

 

It would be WONDERFUL if 2 parents who are divorcing CAN put aside ALL the hurt and anger in the blink of an eye on focus soley on making sure the kids are okay. But, since emotions and feelings are involved, that can't and usually doesn't happen right away. Especially if one of the parents was gaslighted and led to believe that their spouse was honorable (as in not a cheating a**). Kinda hard to put those emotions aside as quickly as we would want them to.

 

But IN TIME, I believe it CAN be done.

 

Especially if the new girlfriend/boyfriend STAY OUT of the parental relationship (because even though the parents divorce, they will forever be tied to each other because of the children and the new SO's (especially new girlfriends) have a very hard time with that.

 

I have never ever met a parent who purposefully hurts or wants their children to hurt in an divorce.

[tami-chan]

Wow Tam - you sure do jump to conclusions and make sweeping generalizations

 

How did I do that?

[tami-chan]

But IN TIME, I believe it CAN be done.

 

Yes, in time...except that many take too long...they just wallow in it and revel in their "victim status"...

 

I have never ever met a parent who purposefully hurts or wants their children to hurt in an divorce.

 

Well...maybe not directly...there are warring couples who USE their children to hurt each other and in effect hurt the kids....like trashing and continually talking bad about the former SO...

[Tsuki no Michi]

there are warring couples who USE their children to hurt each other and in effect hurt the kids...

 

As one of those children I can attest to that fact. Angry adults are often so absorbed in their own emotional breakdown that they revert in many ways to a childlike state themselves. My own mother was so convinced that she was the only one who cared about her kids that she manufactured lies about our father in order to try and insure we were "on her side." If we said anything positive about our Dad then we obviously did not love her. Believe me when I say the majority of the problems myself and my brothers experienced were because of our parent's inability to see how their personal war affected us. The trauma of divorce is often so devastating to one or both adults that it blinds them to the effects of their actions. This is what I mean when I said if parents work together to insure the children are considered first that they will often come through the process of divorce quite well. In short, in a divorce adults don't act very much like adults much of the time.

 

TNM

[tami-chan]

Wow Tam - you sure do jump to conclusions and make sweeping generalizations

 

 

Oh i didn't see the bolded "ANYBODY"...maybe you should focus on the part that said "by many" which means, not all...

 

At any rate....I actually expressed this opinion on a different post and most of the people who responded, like you, disagreed but not only that, they called me.."pollyana-ish and living in lalaland"...

 

At d-day with my H's first affair...the devastation was great..it took me about six months to get my life together-BUT it was a conscious decision on MY part not to expose my child to fights and arguments in the house...I chose to be civil and friendly to my husband-it took a LOT from me, albeit, it was NOT business as usual in our bedroom between H and I.

 

So you see, one has to make the choice--to go beyond the hurt...difficult, yes and perhaps one would need professional help to do it..but it IS doable..

[spiraling downward]

As one of those children I can attest to that fact. Angry adults are often so absorbed in their own emotional breakdown that they revert in many ways to a childlike state themselves. My own mother was so convinced that she was the only one who cared about her kids that she manufactured lies about our father in order to try and insure we were "on her side." If we said anything positive about our Dad then we obviously did not love her. Believe me when I say the majority of the problems myself and my brothers experienced were because of our parent's inability to see how their personal war affected us. The trauma of divorce is often so devastating to one or both adults that it blinds them to the effects of their actions. This is what I mean when I said if parents work together to insure the children are considered first that they will often come through the process of divorce quite well. In short, in a divorce adults don't act very much like adults much of the time.

 

TNM

 

I realize my MW kids are going to need a lot of time to adjust to the new surroundings and our plan is to introduce me to her kids very gradually. We understand that. My children are grown, but I am an experienced parent. I will never try to be a replacement father for her kids... only another caring adult. Discipline well be the choice of MW... I will only back up and support her judgement in these matters.

 

The thing with her kids is, is it better for them to deal with the marriage breakup of their parents or have their parents together and watch their father drink a gallon and a half of rum a week?

 

And before anyone runs with this.... yes, I do know that my MW was co-dependent and an enabler with this man... that doesn't matter to me. I have shown her a way out. We seem to be able to discuss all of this very rationally and I think we will do fine in the future.

[tami-chan]

I realize my MW kids are going to need a lot of time to adjust to the new surroundings and our plan is to introduce me to her kids very gradually. We understand that. My children are grown, but I am an experienced parent. I will never try to be a replacement father for her kids... only another caring adult. Discipline well be the choice of MW... I will only back up and support her judgement in these matters.

 

The thing with her kids is, is it better for them to deal with the marriage breakup of their parents or have their parents together and watch their father drink a gallon and a half of rum a week?

 

And before anyone runs with this.... yes, I do know that my MW was co-dependent and an enabler with this man... that doesn't matter to me. I have shown her a way out. We seem to be able to discuss all of this very rationally and I think we will do fine in the future.

 

You seem to have your stuff taken care of. How old are the kids? I am sure the kids will be fine...for all you know this is also the way out they want. I mean, who really wants to live with an alcoholic parent? I think though, that no one should paint the stbxH of your MW as a villain to the kids. One has to tread carefully because while you want the kids to know the truth you want to present the truth in a way that they will not hate or be bitter about their father-after all he makes up 50% of their genetic make-up.

[JamesM]

 

The thing with her kids is, is it better for them to deal with the marriage breakup of their parents or have their parents together and watch their father drink a gallon and a half of rum a week?

 

I have shown her a way out. We seem to be able to discuss all of this very rationally and I think we will do fine in the future.

 

The assumption is that these are the only two alternatives. There are others that are better for the children. While setting the options up as you did rationalizes her cheating on him, it is not an honest appraisal.

 

The assumption is that he will never quit drinking. My experiences with alcoholics is that when faced with the loss of marriage and family many do quit drinking. For many this is the rock bottom.

 

Yes, you have shown her a way out, but your way out may not be the best thing for her future even though it seems so now. And you brush over that she is an enabler, but I don't think you really understand the ramifications of marrying someone who has lived with an alcoholic. She may think you are the way out because you appear to be so different than her previous guy, but when the affair is over and reality strikes, your new relationship may not seem to her "the way out."

 

You cannot discuss this rationally because you have too many connections to her that make you a very non-objective party.

 

Do a search on ratingsguy here. He was the OM who thought for certain that when his MW left her husband than she would stay with him. This did not happen. Once she moved out, she realized that her new found freedom meant more to her than being tied down with a guy...even though she professed her love to him. And no, she did not appear to feel this way before her divorce.

 

I know that nothing anyone says will deter you from your set course, but I think as I stated before, keeping us updated on how it turns out may be a revelation to all. And yes, I am fully (and hoping) prepared to be wrong.

[tami-chan]

The assumption is that these are the only two alternatives. There are others that are better for the children. While setting the options up as you did rationalizes her cheating on him, it is not an honest appraisal.

 

Of course there are other options, she could just leave and be a single parent. But somebody loves her and is willing to help her out with the kids, so why not? What makes you think that the alcoholic husband has not been given chances after chances to clean up?

 

Maybe his alcoholism is not a rationalization, maybe it is the reason why she sought solace in another man's arms. Love and marriage need to be nurtured and if only one is doing it, it will eventually die...yes, I know...where's the "for better or for worst"..indeed, does that mean take the abuse forever?

 

The assumption is that he will never quit drinking. My experiences with alcoholics is that when faced with the loss of marriage and family many do quit drinking. For many this is the rock bottom.

 

Well, maybe he has reached rock bottom and will change his ways. Too bad for him, he exhausted the marriage.

 

Yes, you have shown her a way out, but your way out may not be the best thing for her future even though it seems so now. And you brush over that she is an enabler, but I don't think you really understand the ramifications of marrying someone who has lived with an alcoholic. She may think you are the way out because you appear to be so different than her previous guy, but when the affair is over and reality strikes, your new relationship may not seem to her "the way out."

 

Only time will tell if the "way out" he has presented her is the best thing for her. I believe he stated that somewhere before that there are no guarantees. But anytime a person leaves an abuser is always a good thing, don't you think?

 

You cannot discuss this rationally because you have too many connections to her that make you a very non-objective party.

 

So he should not post here on LS?

[spiraling downward]

Do a search on ratingsguy here. He was the OM who thought for certain that when his MW left her husband than she would stay with him. This did not happen. Once she moved out, she realized that her new found freedom meant more to her than being tied down with a guy...even though she professed her love to him. And no, she did not appear to feel this way before her divorce.

 

I know that nothing anyone says will deter you from your set course, but I think as I stated before, keeping us updated on how it turns out may be a revelation to all. And yes, I am fully (and hoping) prepared to be wrong.

 

I've already considered that. We've even talked about it. I mean, subjects like that come up when two cheaters are trying to build trust. If she left me... it would break my heart, but I would move on. I really don't think she will though.

[JamesM]

Of course there are other options, she could just leave and be a single parent. But somebody loves her and is willing to help her out with the kids, so why not?

 

Because the way out and the love presented is being done while she is married. If she had left him and was divorced, then we would have a different situation. This man (SDW) is the rescuer and he may be heading for alot of heartache. She may be "loving" him because he has shown kindness to her while she is in an abusive situation.

 

What makes you think that the alcoholic husband has not been given chances after chances to clean up?

 

I don't know.

 

I hope you did not misunderstand me. I am trying to paint other options and reasons. I did not say that she should not leave the marriage. What I am saying is that there are other options for the children than the two presented. Dishonesty as a basis for a relationship...even if that relationship would have been a good one....is usually not considered a good option.

 

The children need a stable family and if it can be done with both parents, then this is most advisable. If the mother must leave, then it should be done openly and honestly. And who knows...this leaving may be the catalyst that drives the H into recovery...which will cause the marriage and family to be rebuilt.

 

With the entrance of another man and an affair, this is unlikely that the family will be rebuilt.

 

Maybe his alcoholism is not a rationalization, maybe it is the reason why she sought solace in another man's arms. Love and marriage need to be nurtured and if only one is doing it, it will eventually die...yes, I know...where's the "for better or for worst"..indeed, does that mean take the abuse forever?

 

IMO, this is a straw man argument. I did not say that she should ignore his alcoholism and stay in the marriage. I can understand why she would go into the arms of another man. But that does not mean that this is a good option.

 

As for love needing to be nurtured, I can say from experience that one person can persist and bring love back that seemed to be gone. One person CAN cause a marriage to thrive once again. And there are numerous examples where an alcoholic recovered his senses based on the persistent confrontations of his wife.

 

If my wife no longer wants sex with me, are the only two options available that are good for my children 1. having an affair or 2. sticking with the situation?

 

Of course not.

 

There are more options than taking the abuse forever or having an affair.

 

 

Well, maybe he has reached rock bottom and will change his ways. Too bad for him, he exhausted the marriage.

 

Actually, if he had a debilitating illness, would we all be sympathetic if his wife left for another man because he exhausted the marriage? Doe we realize that alcoholism is not something that can be changed easily?

 

And now if he changes his ways, will she have missed out on the opportunity to provide her children with a good family life with their father?

 

Should he be written off so easily?

 

And yes, I know there is much not being told. And no, I am not condemning her for her choice, because as a man in a sexless marriage (as defined by most), I can see why an affair is an attractive option.

 

But anytime a person leaves an abuser is always a good thing, don't you think?

 

Of course. But does leaving him means she has no choice but to have an affair?

 

So if leaving the abuser involves adultery...this is good? Or is it much better to leave and then find someone else? And if the abuser changes his ways while his wife is having an affair, does this mean that the affair is no longer justified?

 

We have two separate situations...an alcoholic husband (which I missed where it stated that he was an abuser) and an affair. Neither are good, and the one is not justified because of the other.

 

 

So he should not post here on LS?

 

No, no , no. Please go reread what I responded to. I was saying that SDW cannot be an objective listener to the MW because he is too emotionally involved with her.

 

 

 

 

SDW, again, please believe me that I understand you, and my goal is not to sit here with an holier than thou attitude of condemnation. It is not. What I am trying to do is to give you an outsider perspective of what you may be setting yourself up for.

 

And I think you know that. As you have said, time will tell. And yes, I do truly hope I am wrong. There are always exceptions and you may be one.

[spiraling downward]

SDW, again, please believe me that I understand you, and my goal is not to sit here with an holier than thou attitude of condemnation. It is not. What I am trying to do is to give you an outsider perspective of what you may be setting yourself up for.

 

And I think you know that. As you have said, time will tell. And yes, I do truly hope I am wrong. There are always exceptions and you may be one.

 

JamesM... Yes, I do understand where you are coming from. I appreciate your opinion even though I plan to forge ahead in my pursuit. As little as a year ago... I would be with you 100%. That's why I'm currently... spiraling downward....

[Confused4Now]

JamesM... Yes, I do understand where you are coming from. I appreciate your opinion even though I plan to forge ahead in my pursuit. As little as a year ago... I would be with you 100%. That's why I'm currently... spiraling downward....

 

For what it's worth....I think she needs time to herself and for her to do it on her own. Plus how much better will you be with killing the affair piece of the relationship. Don't you really want to succeed. It just sounds like she has a lot of issues and baggage.

 

Which is why I let go of my MW....I didn't want any resentment and trust issues. Let her end things on her own you don't need to have her fall in your arms. Do listen the the veterans on this board.

[spiraling downward]

For what it's worth....I think she needs time to herself and for her to do it on her own. Plus how much better will you be with killing the affair piece of the relationship. Don't you really want to succeed. It just sounds like she has a lot of issues and baggage.

 

Which is why I let go of my MW....I didn't want any resentment and trust issues. Let her end things on her own you don't need to have her fall in your arms. Do listen the the veterans on this board.

 

She's really setting the pace for how much we see each other... in many respects, I'm setting back, watching things unfold. I do make sure that I make myself available to her though. I'm busy in my career so I really have to balance and budget my time. In the last 3 weeks we have seen each other more than we ever have before. Remember though, that I said we started this affair as 85% emotional, 15% physical. Since May we have taken a couple of trips together and spent the last two weekends together... things are heating up.

[Confused4Now]

She's really setting the pace for how much we see each other... in many respects, I'm setting back, watching things unfold. I do make sure that I make myself available to her though. I'm busy in my career so I really have to balance and budget my time. In the last 3 weeks we have seen each other more than we ever have before. Remember though, that I said we started this affair as 85% emotional, 15% physical. Since May we have taken a couple of trips together and spent the last two weekends together... things are heating up.

 

I know what you mean...just be careful I went on a Disneyland trip with my MW and we had a blast...We came home and I thought things would really get rollin and she was saying all the right things. Then BAMMMMM she pulled away and said she had to do this right. In the whole scheme of things she was right. She needed to do it for herself. Just guard yourself and yes you are busy at work but what happens when she pulls the carpet from under you. It's going to hurt. Take it slow!!! She has to grieve the end of her marraige or family. I'm pulling for you and I'm not harsh like some of the people on the board.

[spiraling downward]

I know what you mean...just be careful I went on a Disneyland trip with my MW and we had a blast...We came home and I thought things would really get rollin and she was saying all the right things. Then BAMMMMM she pulled away and said she had to do this right. In the whole scheme of things she was right. She needed to do it for herself. Just guard yourself and yes you are busy at work but what happens when she pulls the carpet from under you. It's going to hurt. Take it slow!!! She has to grieve the end of her marraige or family. I'm pulling for you and I'm not harsh like some of the people on the board.

 

Thanks. I understand what you are saying. If she did pull the rug out from under me... I would be hurt, for sure. What you describe about your trip has already happened to me... after our first trip together. She really pulled back afterwards... but that was before her D-Day with hubby and before I broke it off with her (although that turned out to be a very short break-up... about a week.) I think she is in a very different place right now than she was back then. I just keep reminding myself that there are no guarantees.