He actually left....now what!

[bentnotbroken]

Nope, nothing she could do. Mr. Messy wasn't the first and I doubt he will be the last, among other things. Just not the kind of person I want around my kids.

[sugarmomma]

You say that you told him to come back when he got a new address? That is what he did. You didn't tell him to come back when he was divorced and maybe you should have. He would be divorced by now and not just "moved out".

 

I would have told him to come back with a divorce decree. Separation doesn't really add up to a pile of beans since legally he is still married.

 

I would not invest another minute in him if I were you. I think you set the standard/expectation too low. Low enough for him to meet it with no problem.

 

He separated and is probably telling his W that he needs time to figure things out and for her to give him at least a year.

 

In the interim he will spend a year actually "with you" to kind of test the waters.

 

If he gets tired of you after that year he can go back to his W with no problem. I'm sure she is foolish enough to wait for him.

 

Not good. I smell a rat!

 

Be careful with this one. HE IS STILL MARRIED.

 

And just think, you were out and moved on and went back.

[Mino]

Hi , I can understand your fears, its good that you have them. Moving out really means nothing. I was the ow for almost 5 years, my mm moved out 3 times. This last time was almost a year. But I warn you that its even harder then an A. His ic told us to go NC for a good 6 months, allowing him time to heal and deal with his own issues. He said the A must die, and only when we have done at least 6 months of nc, and the feelings are still there, to slowly start dating again, building a new R. We did not listen. There were many situations I was not prepared for, situations we never had to deal with before., At the end of the road, I couldnt do another day. It was draining, and painful to be with him during this time. looking back, I would advise anyone to take the time to go through the nc period. Had we listened we might have had a chance,I also recommend that he goes to ic, he needs to deal with his own issues first, needs to learn to love himself again, before he can give his love to you. Good Luck

[GreenEyedLady]

But holy, how do you get past your past? The trust issues. The feelings of abandonment, all still come back to me. I am trying to be rational but I keep falling back into those old patterns.

 

He keeps reassuring me by telling me that he left his W to be with me. That should be a pretty strong sign! But the doubt, the insecurity, the fear just ebbs back in...

 

He told his W, by the way when he left her. Even though I was the one to break it off, I get the label. He has somehow come out of this smelling like a rose.

 

...does anyone have some insight? Words of advice? Is a cheater always a cheater? Can this really work? What to do with the emotional baggage from our past?

 

Ok, first off, YOU are labeling yourself. If you THINK you are the OW, then you always will be.

 

I will tell you this, if you live in the past, you have no future. Continue building your R, be each other's support. You two have never gone through this. It is tough, but you can get it through and emerge stronger. You need to communicate, you need to not be afraid to have feelings and you need to support each other and lean on each other.

 

If you're insecure and fearful, it will show in your interactions and it will hurt your R. If you feel he is trustworthy, then let go and trust.

 

Honestly, this is a turbulent time. There are so many things going on, such high stakes that it feels like chaos all around you. What helped me was knowing that we were in it together, we were in it for the long haul and I was with not only my lover, but my best friend. Unless someone has actually gone through this, they don't know what it's like. And I'm pretty out-spoken. I am reasonable and loving but out-spoken. And it didn't scare off my now H. So make sure and talk about what you're going through. It helps if you are a united front.

 

All the focusing on the why he left: he left. There are probably a million reasons why and he's trying to help ease your insecurity, recognize that. He's trying.

 

I personally think stupid that he told her but what's done is done. You're not the OW now, you're his girlfriend. Stop labeling yourself. Or everyone will only consider you the OW. And expendable. He's not smelling like a rose. I'm willing to bet money that their are lots of people that think what he did stinks. He'll lose acquaintances for it.

 

It can work. It's working for me and my H. But you have to see actions with words. And you can't operate under the "well he left so now I'm a doormat with no voice" assumption.

 

I don't believe in the always a cheater motto. I believe that people make mistakes, that people change and people grow. If you're wanting a guarantee though, you're not going to get one. Life is full of twists and turns.

 

Everyone has emotional baggage from their past. I think if it's not helping, then get rid of it. Get over it. Too many people waste the present worrying and brooding over the past. Your past is in stone; make your present worth it.

 

GEL

[Awesome84]

"I left her to be with YOU" is the WORST reason to stay with this guy.

 

 

Agreed. The fact that he said that will always make you feel responsible for the break up of his marriage. It would be different if he left because he didn't love his wife anymore. That still could be true but the fact that he said he left to be with you just screams problems down the road.

 

I'd wait to see his divorce papers.... and even THEN... continue to date other people. Why should you stop living your life and your quest to find 'the one' just because he said he left his wife for you... such a big burden to put on someone's shoulders.... what a selfish thing to say.

[Awesome84]

I just read GEL's post.... she always puts a positive spin on things. Everytime I post something.... I read her post... and I'm like... well... I agree with her too. LOL.

 

So I don't know. All I know is that Trust is a big issue in any relationship. I'd say give him a chance but don't dive right in. I'd date other people still until I know that this is for real. Thats just me tho.... I have trust issues with people in general because I've had a turbulent past.

[jasminetea]

Hmmmm.... a man who can't make a decision without being forced to.... A man who can't do the right thing without being forced into it. Doesn't sound ideal.

 

I suppose many men and even many women won't make a choice in certain situations unless they are made to, but it doesn't endear them to me. Infact I think I'd not trust anyone, never mind like them, who wouldn't do the right thing unless they were forced to.

 

Actually, I say the 'right' thing, but he's not yet doing that, is he? He's still married and he's putting the responsibility for your relationship on your shoulders, that's not great and certainly not honourable or right.

[Lyssa]

FFS! I replied and something came up so had to relog-in and the post disappeared! Bloody hell!

 

I know how you feel cause I was once in your place. My story is all over the forum but what I did was (from some of the advice I received from GEL and a few others that don't come here that often anymore[not sure if I should mention their names ]) I gave him time and asked him to come back with the papers. His M was irrepairable so he left for the right reasons - that was something I told him to do. Make sure it was for the right reasons only then I can see our R working.

 

It was hard in the beginning as I couldn't trust him seeing how we started but we worked through it - whatever he said, he has always backed them up with actions. I'm not so much of a risk-taker but I knew I had to take this one cause this is the man that loves me for who and what I am. I can't see any other man that can make me very happy the way he does. If ever things don't work out the way I wanted it to, it's alright - I just have to pick myself up and start over.

 

Follow your instincts, if you feel that you can trust him - give him that. If you don't feel good about the whole thing, then get out of it.

 

GEL said that people waste so much time thinking/worrying about the past - I agree with this. No one can ever move on with a new life if one keeps worrying about the past.

[OWoman]

I suppose the question I'd ask is, what do you need to trust him on - and how important is that to you? What is the underlying issue that concerns you - that he may fall in love with someone else? that he may have sex with someone else? that he may realise your R is one of convenience rather than love? "Trust" seems like an awfully big thing - are you going to feel you can't "trust" him if he neglects to mention the coffee he shared with a female colleague at work, or if he doesn't voice his concerns with how much time you spend chatting to your ex-husband on the phone about your kids (say, as hypothetical examples) until he drags it up in an argument one day?

 

I think it's all about emotional lliteracies, the kind of stuff that needs to be negotiated in any R but especially when people have baggage from previous Rs or Ms as so many of us do. You need to be upfront at the outset about what your expectations are - do you want to know the minutiae of his day, or just the significant headlines? And what do you consider significant - would coffee with a female colleague count? Do you want him to share his every feeling - even passing niggles that may evaporate once his blood-sugar stabilises? Or do you want him to reflect and discuss things rationally only once he's thought them through?

 

If he's meeting your communication needs, and you're meeting his, why would there be "trust" issues, unless one (or the other) deliberately sets out to deceive?

 

On the "xOW" issue, I agree with GEL that that's up to you - wear it heavily and it will weigh you down; wear it lightly and it will give you wings. All my H's friends, colleagues and family knew the origins of our R, and knew me (as his GF) during the A. It's never been an issue for them because it's never been one for us, and their only response has been pleasure at seeing him happy.

[2sure]

Yes, it was a bad start. But not something that cannot be overcome between the two of you. Yes, it was a bad start but both of you have done the best you can to do the right thing and move on. You broke off the affair telling him he had to make a decision, and you left him. He made the decision, even with you gone, and left his wife. I mean these are difficult things but they are the right things to do. Some marriages dont work out. At the end, one partner may find someone else. A bad situation ,made worse...and then rectified as best as one can. Beats staying and cheating.

 

If you really know you were the only OW in his life...then I would not think of him as a "serial cheater."

 

Go slow, see his divorce thru, communicate ...the risk is there, but love is a risk.

 

BUT:

 

She has been pretty nasty toward me in our small community over the past 2 years even before she knew but just suspected.

 

She suspected?? She knew. Her suspicions were correct. Not only was she being cheated on - she was told she was crazy for believing something she KNEW. That makes people nasty. It makes people crazy and nasty even more than the infidelity itself. And you participated in this.

 

....I will not tolerate abuse, verbal or otherwise. I recently established those boundaries.

 

Dont expect his wife, who was gaslighted for so long by both of you to not feel as though she was verbally and emotionally abused in both her private life and the community . I would feel confident that she will show the same respect for your "boundaries " as you did for hers.

 

I mean, I do feel for you. I realize you are trying to do the right thing, and making hard choices. I have been OW .

 

Just be realistic.

[northernsun]

what do I need to trust him...hmmm. I have asked myself this over and over. I am not the type of person that needs a blow by blow on his day and I don't want to be checking up on him...not my style, I am too busy and if I did, it would drive me nuts!

 

I just want him to be consistent. What he sais and what he does are the same. He is a good talker and that is a heads up for me. Also, I have been between his sheets when he has made calls home in the past. That is something I wish I had never heard, like a horror film you just can't get out of your head.

 

I used to think that if you were smart enough, pretty enough, successful enough, blah blah blah that no man would f*ck that up. But I was wrong. My exH did exactly that. I realize that worrying if my separated MM is out there with another woman in the past or in the future will only drive ME crazy and does nothing to prevent such an event from happening.

 

At the same token, I have weak days too!

 

So, when he says that he cant be with me because he wants to spend every moment that he can when he is in town which precludes me many times in his schedule, I am OK with that. But when he tells me that he can't see me because he has his kids from 8pm onward tonight and then enlightens me later that he is golfing in the afternoon and picking his kids up at the babysitters because thier mom is out of town and dropped them off there at 2pm...well, I have a hard time swallowing that one!

 

Consistency means that I am not the one on the film editing floor when it suits him. And consistency means that you are where you say you are. And I don't have to question you because it is straight forward. Say what you do and do what you say.

 

An earlier post suggested that I might be vulnerable, which is why I ended up in an A in the first place. That might be true. Although significantly less true today than 3 years ago.

 

I talked to him about taking it slow and maybe not being together until he gets his stuff together and has some patterns with his children that work for him and their mom. But he is adimate that he wants to be in my life now. Waiting would only be more pain. That we could work this together and build our relationship now.

 

My focus over the near term is to keep even keeled, to do a lot of soul searching and make sure I am good with ME and clear about what I want. Keep positive and keep the doors of communication open. Slowly.... Sounds like a plan...(famous last words!)

[northernsun]

 

She has been pretty nasty toward me in our small community over the past 2 years even before she knew but just suspected.

 

She suspected?? She knew. Her suspicions were correct. Not only was she being cheated on - she was told she was crazy for believing something she KNEW. That makes people nasty. It makes people crazy and nasty even more than the infidelity itself. And you participated in this.

 

....I will not tolerate abuse, verbal or otherwise. I recently established those boundaries.

 

Dont expect his wife, who was gaslighted for so long by both of you to not feel as though she was verbally and emotionally abused in both her private life and the community . I would feel confident that she will show the same respect for your "boundaries " as you did for hers.

 

I mean, I do feel for you. I realize you are trying to do the right thing, and making hard choices. I have been OW .

 

Just be realistic.

 

I can see what you are saying. And you are right. I 'get' angry/hurt and a bunch of other emotional superlatives. She has every right to that. Yes, my boundaries were way way out of wack. I regret that and I am sorry for it. I did try to make amends for that by ending the A but I know that I cannot undo what was done to her. It was just plain shatty how this all went down for her.

 

Nevertheless, making up crap and lies about me, spreading scathing and untrue rumours to try to defame me reflects more on her than on me. Despreate is something else in this I suppose.

 

I am trying to give her whatever latitude I can here but I am not going to willingly let certain things be said or done to me just because of it.

 

I presume that one of these days she will confront me. I am not sure what I will say specifically but every ounce of compassion I can muster up will be part of it. I can only guess that she will have a few choice words to say and I am prepared to listen but only to a limit. If it is just hurtful and non-productive, I don't see a lot of benefit to that. I deceived her as did her H but she already had a longstanding relationship with him. She will forgive him long before she will ever forgive (if ever) me.

[2sure]

I deceived her as did her H but she already had a longstanding relationship with him. She will forgive him long before she will ever forgive (if ever) me.

 

No. It will take some time. And you are going to have to grant her that. As to her accusations, just suck it up as "taking the high road". Defending yourself will only give them validity and bring poison into your life.

 

But eventually she is going to think of you in similar terms as you thought of the OW in your previous marriage. She is going to realize that SHE is still worthwhile even if her marriage and husband (to her) are not. This will make her more comfortable with herself and that alone will take away some of the venom toward both of you . At some point she will recognize that circumstances or no - she dodged a bullet. She may even be spitefully happy that you ended up saddled with him. Let her. At the very least , she will become indifferent. And thats a good enough place.

[northernsun]

Thanks to all of you for your insightful comments. I am new to this forum format and I am pleased that you have been willing to share your experience with me. Sometimes we feel like we are all alone in the world and it is nice to get some objective feedback.

 

I am away for a couple of weeks with my kids tomorrow but I look foward to checking in when I return.

[GreenEyedLady]

I just want him to be consistent. What he sais and what he does are the same.

 

So, when he says that he cant be with me because he wants to spend every moment that he can when he is in town which precludes me many times in his schedule, I am OK with that. But when he tells me that he can't see me because he has his kids from 8pm onward tonight and then enlightens me later that he is golfing in the afternoon and picking his kids up at the babysitters because thier mom is out of town and dropped them off there at 2pm...well, I have a hard time swallowing that one!

 

Consistency means that I am not the one on the film editing floor when it suits him. And consistency means that you are where you say you are. And I don't have to question you because it is straight forward. Say what you do and do what you say.

 

I talked to him about taking it slow and maybe not being together until he gets his stuff together and has some patterns with his children that work for him and their mom. But he is adimate that he wants to be in my life now. Waiting would only be more pain. That we could work this together and build our relationship now.

 

You need to tell him all this. That if he's not consistent you will not be able to continue your R. Your expectations are right on. If he cannot fulfill them, then you are not compatible as a couple.

 

As for the BS spreading rumors etc, ignore her. She will have her feelings, you will have yours. You can't control what she says or does. Just keep moving forward.

 

Decide if he's really the one you want. Him being adamant is great, except that YOU have a choice here too. He doesn't call all the shots.

 

If he is really serious, he'll listen to your concerns and make some changes.