Why Does The OW.....

[NoIDidn't]

....judge the BW for suspecting an affair when she (the OW) knows one is going on?

 

It doesn't make any sense to me and the more I read it, the more puzzled I am by this.

 

"She treated me badly when she suspected but didn't know" (a paraphrase)

 

"She never had any proof but she suspected and didn't trust him for it" (a paraphrase)

 

I don't understand this nonsense. If the OW knows the the woman has a reason to not trust her wandering H, why does she judge her for it?

 

It makes absolutely no sense at all. Saying that a woman should trust her H all while knowing the woman has a very good reason to NOT trust him.

[northernsun]

I think I am the one who wrote the first paraphrase. But I wasn't judging her for suspecting or knowing. I was judging her for the false defamatory rumours she was spreading about me and saying to her H about me to try to undermine our relationship. That was just bad form.

 

When women suspect an affair is going on...when those spidey senses go off...they are often right. I think the OW in the second case might just be expressing surprise that the W had an incling in the first place since she may have falsely felt that the A was undetectable.... Just a possibility.

[2sure]

You cannot figure it out because it truly makes no sense.

 

Think of it this way. Your H is cheating, you have a gut feeling, but no tangible proof.

 

Its easy for your H to explain it all away by saying you are paranoid, controlling, or imagining things. This creates a rift between the two of you. It doesnt make your gut feeling go away and now he has questioned your sanity, and further - made you doubt it yourself. Gaslighting. Goes on for years, is done whether the wife has proof or not. He tells you that what you see is not there. THIS betrayal - this madness - this making me doubt my own senses, myself...is FAR FAR worse that his having sex or long conversations with another woman. Sleepless nights. The nagging anxiety that interferes with your health, your children , and your job.

 

For a person to take part in THAT...to justify it by saying "the wife suspected but didnt know"....

 

I would not hold OW responsible for banging my husband. I'd blame him for that. But for taking part , even passively, in destroying me emotionally and physically by knowing I "suspected, but didn't know"...

 

To be honest, THAT I would take personally. I would handle my husband's part in the abuse privately between he and I.

 

But I would handle the abuse from OW the same, I'd take that issue alone - personally. And that would be handled between she and I.

[whichwayisup]

I think I am the one who wrote the first paraphrase. But I wasn't judging her for suspecting or knowing. I was judging her for the false defamatory rumours she was spreading about me and saying to her H about me to try to undermine our relationship. That was just bad form.

 

But weren't you sleeping with her husband? Isn't that bad form?

[OpenBook]

If the OW knows the the woman has a reason to not trust her wandering H' date=' why does she judge her for it?[/quote']

 

Well, the OW could certainly turn that question around and ask the same thing of the BW: If the BW knows that she has a reason not to trust her own wandering H, why does she judge the OW for it?

 

The question in my mind is: Why does the BW have a wandering H in the first place??????

[IfWishesWereHorses]

Why does the BW have a wandering H in the first place??????

 

Bad choice in men.

[northernsun]

But weren't you sleeping with her husband? Isn't that bad form?

 

Yes, both bad form. touche.

[2sure]

Absolutely. When my H cheated, the OW was not an issue for me. HE did this to me. And his infidelity was made of basically hit and runs several times over. So clearly, the OW was not part of the problem.

 

But I did call them and tell them I found out. I approached it as "My H has regrettably put us both in an uncomfortable position". I did go onto tell them that although I didnt blame, that any further contact with my H would now be taken as a personal insult to me. It worked and I was then able to address the real issue.

 

But really, if my H had a long term affair I would want to know that OW was as gaslighted as I was ...which is often the case. I would be more comfortable wrapping my head around it if I thought she had no idea I was suffering.

[Gamine]

I think I am the one who wrote the first paraphrase. But I wasn't judging her for suspecting or knowing. I was judging her for the false defamatory rumours she was spreading about me and saying to her H about me to try to undermine our relationship. That was just bad form.

 

When women suspect an affair is going on...when those spidey senses go off...they are often right. I think the OW in the second case might just be expressing surprise that the W had an incling in the first place since she may have falsely felt that the A was undetectable.... Just a possibility.

 

Now, this is where I get 'lost' in the thinking that goes behind it. The wife trying to 'undermine our relationship' as if she is out of line for objecting to it.

 

Up and until the last 20 years or so a wife was able to sue an OW in a court of law and obtain a judgment in damages for alienation of affection. The legal premise being that she violated a contract between the husband and wife and the husband/wife and the state (many states to this day view the marriage as a contract between the couple and the state).

 

The morning after I found out, I contacted her and basically told her I'd kick her ass if she ever came snooping around my home or husband again. I almost sent her an invoice for services rendered and was quite tempted to buy her a dildo to use in the event she couldn't get off in some other way... including utilizing her husband's own penis. Harsh, you bet. Crass? You bet. All's fair in love and war. The OW was such as coward she never responded to me. Simultaneously, I told my husband that if he wanted to be there I'd pack him up and drive him off to her. However, unless and until he is no longer my husband and living in our home no one will violate my home without my permission. Especially when he's free to go.

 

LaGazelle brought up a very interesting dynamic. It is called 'mate poaching'. Read up on it. Super interesting stuff.

 

Why would I kick her ass? Because no one drinks out of of alpha female's water bowl without her say so. And yes, I can be the most compassionate sweetie pie on the earth. Take in stray animals, work on a seriously damaged marriage, and have love for all women. However, punch a whole into my world and screw with me or mine and well, suffice to say, you've just picked a fight with me... personally. Not treating the man like a child... oh no. A fight with me and that's how I see it.

 

So, little if no compassion for someone who cries over getting a black eye when they try to steal a wallet out of my purse.

[OpenBook]

Why does the BW have a wandering H in the first place??????

 

Bad choice in men.

 

I completely agree... from both sides of the fence.

 

Brings a whole new meaning to the saying, "Good fences make good neighbors."

[eyeswide]

Having access to the correspondence of my H and his AP, I have often shaken my head over things the OW said about me as if they were unfair -- after D-day she once wrote that it was such bs that I was "giving him an ultimatum" even though I actually said I would tolerate his trying to figure out what he wanted as long as I could but that ultimately I might feel the need to leave/make him leave if it went on too long. More than fair, I'd say! But no, according to her that was "unfair pressure".

 

I've often imagined writing to her and saying "Really? That was hard and unfair of me? Would you have put up with more if your husband was having an affair?" (But then I'd be breaking NC and just bringing chaos back into my life...so I won't do that )

 

All I can say is that I know they were in a fog and willing to do or say anything to keep the fog overhead. My husband's willingness to give himself an ultimatum at that time is something for which I'm actually proud of him.

[herenow]

What I find interesting is when an OW questions a BW for staying with a man who cheated on her, but when the MM is cheating with the OW, theirs is a relationship to be trusted.

 

The OW will say that the MM didn't cheat on her, he cheated on his wife and he won't cheat on the OW. The fact is, he cheated and if OW thinks he will do it again to the BW, what will stop him from cheating on the OW? After all, he is the cheater right?

[Adunaphel]

....judge the BW for suspecting an affair when she (the OW) knows one is going on?

 

I would have thought it was more common for the OW to judge the BS for not suspecting an affair.

[Owl]

I completely agree... from both sides of the fence.

 

Brings a whole new meaning to the saying, "Good fences make good neighbors."

 

That got an out loud laugh from me for real, Openbook!!! :) :)

[herenow]

Many of them do that as well. It wouldn't matter WHAT it's about, providing it's a way to somehow put the BS in a bad light because, after all, THEN they would be "the better woman saving the poor MM from a horrible W."

 

Yet they still stay married to us bitter BW's even when they are free to go be with the OW.

[2sure]

Yep. Its not too many BS who dont say if you dont love me, then leave.

It is everything we can do to not push them out the door.

 

But MM explains it as "she is begging me", "she really knows but doesnt care", "she is unstable with the kids".

 

When they say they cant leave, trust me - most of their wives are saying "You cant stay".

[Adunaphel]

Many of them do that as well. It wouldn't matter WHAT it's about, providing it's a way to somehow put the BS in a bad light because, after all, THEN they would be "the better woman saving the poor MM from a horrible W."

 

It's not necessarily about putting the BS in a bad light.

There have been a few times where I've felt some anger/irritation towards the BS - not saying that it was a legitimate feeling, but I felt it nonetheless.

I could not understand her.

How could not she realize that her H was having an A? Why didn't she even ever ask him anything about it? Didn't she give a damn about her H?

If I heard a similar story about a friend of mine or about someone whose H I am not having an A with, I'd be equally puzzled and have a similar reaction.

[herenow]

It's not necessarily about putting the BS in a bad light.

There have been a few times where I've felt some anger/irritation towards the BS - not saying that it was a legitimate feeling, but I felt it nonetheless.

I could not understand her.

How could not she realize that her H was having an A? Why didn't she even ever ask him anything about it? Didn't she give a damn about her H?

If I heard a similar story about a friend of mine or about someone whose H I am not having an A with, I'd be equally puzzled and have a similar reaction.

 

So I'm sure you can understand a BW wondering why an OW would get involved with a MM in the first place. How could the OW not realize that he is still married and goes home to his wife and family who knows nothing about the OW? How could the OW not know that he lies to his wife so that he can keep the OW a secret? How could the OW not be aware of the fact that it's very possible that, if he lies to his wife, he is also lying to the OW?

[Owl]

It's not necessarily about putting the BS in a bad light.

There have been a few times where I've felt some anger/irritation towards the BS - not saying that it was a legitimate feeling, but I felt it nonetheless.

I could not understand her.

How could not she realize that her H was having an A? Why didn't she even ever ask him anything about it? Didn't she give a damn about her H?

If I heard a similar story about a friend of mine or about someone whose H I am not having an A with, I'd be equally puzzled and have a similar reaction.

 

But here's the thing...odds are high that she suspects, but doesn't know.

 

And there's NO point in asking someone about an affair without proof.

 

Many of us do/did...and it was literally worse than useless. It was worse because then it gave the WS heads up that they were being suspect...and it typically drove the affair further underground.

 

I definitely suspected my wife of her EA. I heartily suspected OM. But I had no proof, and the times that I told my wife that I was concerned about how much time she spent with OM, she always fought hard to convince me that "you have nothing to worry about".

 

It wasn't until I had proof in hand that I could get an honest answer about what was going on.

 

That's the tough part...there's no real way to know what's going on in the minds/lives of your opposite on the triangle. It works the other way too...the BS can only speculate about what's going on with the OW/OM, and have similar speculations about why they're doing what they're doing as well.

[2sure]

[QUOTE=2sure;2264633]

Its easy for your H to explain it all away by saying you are paranoid, controlling, or imagining things. This creates a rift between the two of you. It doesnt make your gut feeling go away and now he has questioned your sanity, and further - made you doubt it yourself.

 

I quoted myself just because it so strongly applies. THIS is why she doesnt know he is cheating. This is what is happening to her. You aren't just f'g her husband, you are f'g with her being.

[Adunaphel]

Were the signs that obvious, do you think, that she SHOULD have known?

 

I have been wondering about it for quite a while, actually.

I would have liked on more than an occasion to post a "do you think she knows?" post about it on LS, but it is the kind of post that could take a bad turn.

 

So I'm sure you can understand a BW wondering why an OW would get involved with a MM in the first place. How could the OW not realize that he is still married and goes home to his wife and family who knows nothing about the OW? How could the OW not know that he lies to his wife so that he can keep the OW a secret? How could the OW not be aware of the fact that it's very possible that, if he lies to his wife, he is also lying to the OW?

 

Well, I got involved with a MM twice. The first time ...I am still wondering why I got involved in that situation. And I still feel bad about it.

The second time... I guess I believe that MM is a good person, I feel in love with him, I do not feel like the homewrecker, he does not sound like someone who is rewriting history and, as I believe what he has told me so far and he got separated (an action that matched his words), I assume that while he might cheat on me, he will probably give me some warning signs, he will not sleep with me while he is having an A, and he will not badmouth me with the OW.

[herenow]

So, here is what I don't get. If a MM wants to be with an OW why wouldn't he tell the truth when his wife asks him? It seems to me that a BW who questions her H is giving him an out. If she asks, then she is usually somewhat prepared for an answer. If he lies about it, he has lost the perfect opportunity to leave and be with the OW. Why doesn't he?

 

How insulting to an OW that he isn't even willing to honest about her when asked point blank.

[Adunaphel]

But here's the thing...odds are high that she suspects, but doesn't know.

 

And there's NO point in asking someone about an affair without proof.

 

I remember your story but not the details of it... and I cannot find the thread on LS to check...while I recall that your W had an EA, was talking about leaving you with OM and was rewriting history, I cannot remember whether you got any warning signs or she pretended that everything was going okay in your marriage.

 

If you do not mind me asking, had your W told you that she no longer was "in love" with you, talked about having a different kind of relationship and suggested that you started leading separated lives, would you have asked her if there was another person? would you have suspected anything?

I guess that such a talk could not be associated to your partner having an affair, expecially if you are a trusting person... so I'd really like to know if you would have suspected that your W was seeing someone else.

 

Also, if I can ask... do you think a BS could hear that their partner *is* seeing another person, but the other person is *not* the reason why he/she is leaving, and actually believe it?

 

(this could sound the wrong way, but it's just a question... I wish there had been more honesty at the beginning of the A, expecially now.

 

That's the tough part...there's no real way to know what's going on in the minds/lives of your opposite on the triangle. It works the other way too...the BS can only speculate about what's going on with the OW/OM, and have similar speculations about why they're doing what they're doing as well.

Sometimes mind reading would come in really helpful. Apart from BS/MP/OP situations, it would avoid a lot of relationship problems.

[Adunaphel]

So, here is what I don't get. If a MM wants to be with an OW why wouldn't he tell the truth when his wife asks him? It seems to me that a BW who questions her H is giving him an out. If she asks, then she is usually somewhat prepared for an answer. If he lies about it, he has lost the perfect opportunity to leave and be with the OW. Why doesn't he?

 

How insulting to an OW that he isn't even willing to honest about her when asked point blank.

 

What I do not get is why (in my case) BS never asked point blank.

 

I guess it is because they have children (I can only guess, I wish I could know).

Unfortunately recently their daughter got accidentally to know about the A (in a very stupid way, too. she got to read a quite old message I sent him. I am sorry that she learnt about it that way, expecially considered that she is quite young), and told her mother about it.

The situation got, and still is, particularly unpleasant.

Understandably his W asked him to leave - they are already legally separated, but they were trying to still live together for some time - for both economical reasons and (expecially) for the children.

 

Her reaction is very, very understandable.

I guess it was the real 'discovery day', opposed to 'only suspecting, not asking'.

Two months ago she told him "if you are seeing someone else, I do not want to know about it". I guess this is one of the things I do not get.

[Adunaphel]

Are these the things your MM SAYS he told his W?

 

Exactly.

 

I guess I either choose to believe him, or I don't.

 

He also asked her to get separated a few months later.

Which is easier to believe since he is now legally separated.

...or so he says.

I guess that next time we get to see each other, I'll get to see the papers.