Why Does The OW.....

[Adunaphel]

I presume he told you she said that to him. How do you know he's not lying?

 

Matter of factly, I don't.

[Adunaphel]

Your honesty is refreshing, as is the fact that you don't get all bent out of shape by pointed questions such as mine.

 

You get a bunny! --->

 

Lol, thanks!

 

It is actually quite easy not to get bent out of shape... your questions were very polite... and I asked myself the very same questions.

 

I guess that you can never be sure that the other person is being honest... expecially if he/she is married... and expecially if you are in a LDR.

All you can do is look for red flags, look for inconsistencies, see how he/she treats other people, try to be honest yourself and hope you are not having on your hands a very nasty specimen of cake eater!

[Owl]

Matter of factly, I don't.

 

I love the honesty in this response!

 

And this is the summary to this whole thing too...is the BW any more "gullible/foolish/wrong" for opting to believe in him and not trying to find out if there is someone else than you are for believing in him?

 

I don't know that either one is actually behaving any differently. Both are basically placing trust in him.

 

The only (slight) difference I see here is that you have seen exactly how he's lied/manipulated the situation to get what he wants...she only suspects until she gets the full truth. And in some cases, some BS's absolutely do bury their heads in the sand. But from where you're sitting, there's no real way for you to know if she's burying her head in the sand, suspects but has no proof, or you're being fed a line of bull by him. She'd be in the same boat trying to figure out what's happening on your side of the triangle as well.

[Adunaphel]

I love the honesty in this response!

 

And this is the summary to this whole thing too...is the BW any more "gullible/foolish/wrong" for opting to believe in him and not trying to find out if there is someone else than you are for believing in him?

 

Absolutely not... but...

can you still talk about "believing in him" when he talked about not loving you anymore, leading separated lives, getting separated?

He never said flat out he was seeing someone else.

But he never said he was not seeing someone else, either...

 

I don't know that either one is actually behaving any differently. Both are basically placing trust in him.

 

What bugs me the most is actually not the 'trust' in him... but the fact that while the affair went on, and until recently, I kept wondering whether she actually gave a damn about her M.

A couple of months ago they had a talk, and (according to MM's words), she said she was happy with him. I was surprised (and felt guiltier than i ever felt about the A...not that it means much since I'm still seeing him) ...while MM sounded genuinely bitter/unhappy when talking about it (her words, not their marriage).

How can someone be happy and do not do anything to save their marriage?

Why agree to get separated without figthing, expecially if she truly did not believe he was seeing someone else?

The main problem in their marriage was lack of communication, so I guess it is not surprising. Yet... it is sad and I do not get it. (Unless, once again, I am delusional).

 

So... (getting back on the original topic... apologies for hijacking the thread ) I guess I judge BS (or, to be precise, I judge the idea of her that formed in my mind, which might or might not have much to do with the real BS) but it is nothing personal.

And I'm aware that I can think "how can you stick your head in the sand and not see problems in your marriage that go much beyond the affair?" all I want, but she has been with the man I love for 17 years, had children with him, and he does not regret their marriage even now that they are separating... chances -statistically speaking - that I could do any better are very low.

 

The only (slight) difference I see here is that you have seen exactly how he's lied/manipulated the situation to get what he wants...she only suspects until she gets the full truth. And in some cases, some BS's absolutely do bury their heads in the sand. But from where you're sitting, there's no real way for you to know if she's burying her head in the sand, suspects but has no proof, or you're being fed a line of bull by him. She'd be in the same boat trying to figure out what's happening on your side of the triangle as well.

 

He certainly lied and manipulated some (well...he lied some... I'm unsure about the manipulation part).

 

Actually, I have a feeling that had she asked him questions more often, they might still be together... I would have probably never entered his life at all.

 

I guess I'd like to have a talk with her, somewhere in the future, as it would be the only way to know what is going in each other's minds.

[datura_noir]

Wow, what a can o' worms to open up...

 

I know that between myself and my husband, after so many years together, you get "used to' or "comfortable" with each other...just what we all strive for, right? Comfort, security in knowing that we have family and a landing space. The affair is just a "bump in the road" for us, the OW was suckered in by his insecurity and lies, and I hope she's doing great wherever she is.

 

He made all sorts of statements to OW and backed them up by saying that "she doesn't even care if I leave and don't tell her".....but he neglected to tell her that during these times,he turned his phone off if he did leave, and left me wondering....

 

As soon as I found out about his so-called 'reasons to separate and find out if we were going to make it', his story changed.

 

Now that he has come clean, and I found out about his PRON addiction and other "innapropriate friendships" with women during the time, we have become closer, like best buds, only with shared intimacy.

 

He knows I won't tolerate any more of the stuff I had been for 2-3 years prior, so we are just being a happy, satisfied and regular married couple.

[Reggie]

There sure is a lot of reliance on the OM's version of what was said. Amazing, since the evidence that he is a liar is known to the OW coupled with the OM"S need to justify and the desire to beseen favorably my the OW.

Anyone want to buy some oceanfront property in Arizona?

[Mr. Lucky]

The OW will say that the MM didn't cheat on her, he cheated on his wife and he won't cheat on the OW. The fact is, he cheated and if OW thinks he will do it again to the BW, what will stop him from cheating on the OW? After all, he is the cheater right?

Which leads to the other contradiction in an A, where the AP's consider themselves to be "faithful" to the relationship even if one - or both if married - are still having sex with the respective BS. Makes your head spin - sex with another person is cheating on the marriage but accepted in the A...

 

Mr. Lucky

[jj33]

Good question NID. Judging the BS for suspecting an affair? I would think that if the W doesnt know (most cases) the OW would be paranoid of the BS ever finding out.

 

My sense is that some people, in an attempt to justify their position, need to find a reason to find fault with the BS, because it (in their minds) legitimizes them.

 

I can only imagine that on the one hand, it would be awful and so humiliating to be found out if you were sneaking around with someone's H and on the other hand someone might want the BS to find out in the hopes that the H might have to make a choice.

 

But weve read so many stories here, the BS finding out isnt what forces someone to make a choice. Its one woman or the other saying no more of this triangle that makes them make a decision.

 

But basically I dont get that mentality. If you are engaged in a secret affair, you want to keep it a secret. You dont want to be exposed and you dont want to bring the whole thing crashing down (or so I would think). I know I felt that way professionally.

 

But to ridicule them for being suspicous? Thats absurd. If the OW loves the man, and they are having an affair, how can she not understand that the W is invested in her relationship with him? Even if the marriage is really "dead" its human nature to have some sort of pride and ego involved and not want "your" H to be with someone else.

 

Herenow I agree with you that someone who thinks its OK to cross that line may decide to do it again if the circumstances justify it (in their little minds). But it seems so many people cheat.

 

I guess if you think you have a strong relatoinship with someone, you hope that your relationship wiill be different than the one he is exiting and that if conflict arises he will make different choices. You have to believe that the person can change.

 

Not due to the "power of your love" so to speak but because if they are leaving a bad marriage, that they will want to do things differently next time around.

 

It may not be the case, but you have to believe that or you couldnt start a post affair relationship with the WS.

[fooled once]

Well, the OW could certainly turn that question around and ask the same thing of the BW: If the BW knows that she has a reason not to trust her own wandering H, why does she judge the OW for it?

 

The question in my mind is: Why does the BW have a wandering H in the first place??????

 

So it is the BW's fault the a** she married is a cheater? Really?

[fooled once]

So I'm sure you can understand a BW wondering why an OW would get involved with a MM in the first place. How could the OW not realize that he is still married and goes home to his wife and family who knows nothing about the OW? How could the OW not know that he lies to his wife so that he can keep the OW a secret? How could the OW not be aware of the fact that it's very possible that, if he lies to his wife, he is also lying to the OW?

 

EXCELLENT post!!

[fooled once]

See, I don't understand why so many OW think they know what goes on in someone else's marriage.

 

Why do they believe what the MM is telling them? Seriously. I don't get it.

 

He is a liar and a cheat, but he is telling the truth to the OW? And the OW believe this.

 

Again, there are very few MM who are going to tell the women they are cheating with the TRUTH about their marriage.

 

And if so many of these MM are so miserable in their marriages WHY aren't they seperating/divorcing BEFORE starting an affair? Why does it take having an affair for them to even contemplate leaving? If they are so unhappy, why don't they leave?

 

It isn't "for the kids" or for financial reasons - they don't leave because they aren't UNHAPPY in their marriages, they don't WANT to leave their wives but the want a new/exciting sex life.

 

And I don't get why a BS would know? I mean, should I question my husband every day about who he ate lunch with? If he is late, do I start questioning if he really stopped by the store? Do I start looking through his phone to see who he called? Do I start checking his computer to see who he emailed?

 

I am sure there are many times when it is 'obvious' that someone is cheating - but if my husband carries on his same routine - both at home and at work, and continues to want to have sex with me - why would I think he is cheating?

[whichwayisup]

How could not she realize that her H was having an A? Why didn't she even ever ask him anything about it? Didn't she give a damn about her H?

If I heard a similar story about a friend of mine or about someone whose H I am not having an A with, I'd be equally puzzled and have a similar reaction.

 

Take a good look at NotSure's post in the infidelity section. He is a really good LIAR and has admitted this. His wife is totally CLUELESS because he has led her to believe he is happy and he loves her, and the marriage is great. Yet inside he feels the complete opposite - HOW is she to know the truth if he is lying to her?

 

MEN LIE. WOMEN LIE. Some are really good at. HOW many BS's were shocked to find out about their spouses cheating on them.

 

OB, I sense that your comment is blaming the BW that the H's are cheating on them.

 

I guess I either choose to believe him, or I don't.

 

Just like his wife. There are many differences, but most of all the BW has alot more to lose than an OW does.

[OpenBook]

MEN LIE. WOMEN LIE. Some are really good at. HOW many BS's were shocked to find out about their spouses cheating on them.

 

OB, I sense that your comment is blaming the BW that the H's are cheating on them.

 

If you are referring to me, please read post #13. Thanks.

 

Although I will never buy the premise that the W is totally clueless about her wayward H... unless she has her head completely buried in the sand - in which case the M has bigger problems than infidelity. I mean, come ON - she has lived with and taken care of this man on a daily basis for many years. She knows him so intimately well. There had to be SOME kind of signs that something was off.

 

But let's say it IS actually true that a BW could be so easily deceived by her CH. If that's the case, then what hope is there of anyone recovering a M after infidelity? How would she ever be able to trust him again, if he can so easily deceive her in the first place? How will she ever know if he's sharing his REAL self with her? You can't argue it both ways.

[bentnotbroken]

OB, even when the a BS suspects something is off and goes to the WS, they are good at lying. It happened to me. I asked questions, there were always very reasonable explanations. And at the time I didn't have a reason to distrust him. He had always traveled, called me, came home when he said he would....so on and so forth. If a cheating spouse is dead set on being the best liar in the world and the spouse isn't the jealous or suspicious type, you really are clueless. I honestly believed he was just NPD and an a$$ in general, not a cheating a$$ too.

[Adunaphel]

See, I don't understand why so many OW think they know what goes on in someone else's marriage.

 

Because they are not so arrogant to just know for sure what goes on in someone else's marriage.

 

Why do they believe what the MM is telling them? Seriously. I don't get it.

 

Because it does not sound like he is lying.

Or because they do not want to see the obvious.

Or because they think that once a cheater means only once a cheater, at least until they cheat again. The same goes for once a liar.

Or because they do not believe in labels or in branding labels on people.

Some lies are far worse than others, but I do not know anybody who never lied or found ways to hide distort the truth at least once in their lives.

Because they feel entitled to choose whether to believe him or not.

 

Again, there are very few MM who are going to tell the women they are cheating with the TRUTH about their marriage.

 

You said very few, which at least means some.

You like thinking you are the one who got together with the 1 MM out of 10 who lies little and will eventually leave.

 

And if so many of these MM are so miserable in their marriages WHY aren't they seperating/divorcing BEFORE starting an affair? Why does it take having an affair for them to even contemplate leaving? If they are so unhappy, why don't they leave?

 

Many single people are not happy in their relationship, but it takes a lot more than being generically "not happy" to make them leave.

It does not necessarily take being abused or being cheated on to be unhappy. You do not have to fight every day and throw items at each other to be unhappy.

Until they cannot take it anymore.

Or until they meet someone and realize that they'd like to start over again.

They get their own wake up call.

Cheating is not the most honorable thing to do, but if someone means to genuinely leave I can see why he/she might be unwilling to wait until he gets divorced or separated - the other person might not be there anymore. Or they might change their mind and do not find the strength to leave. (not talking about being a victim...I'm talking about being weak,in a way).

(I never cheated, and I do not want to, but I do not think people always cheat for the same reasons).

Also, I think exit affairs actually exists. Affairs are bad, but I think I'd rather have an exit affair (or that my partner had one) than stay in an unhappy relationship... that is, if the exit affair is short. I think I could forgive an exit affair. What I could not forgive is an affair that goes on on my back while my partner does not want to leave.

 

It isn't "for the kids" or for financial reasons - they don't leave because they aren't UNHAPPY in their marriages, they don't WANT to leave their wives but the want a new/exciting sex life.

 

I do not think it does apply to *every* wandering spouse.

Some want just a new/fullfilling relationship. They want communication. They want signs of affection. They want to be with someone who is more like them. (please avoid comments about liars having much in common with each other:)). They want to leave, and sometimes end up doing so.

[Spark1111]

He told me: New Job, late nights, dinner meetings, traveling to a developmental property upstate where there was poor phone reception (true! I had been there with him.)

 

He became distant, critical, busy, busy, busy. Job stress we thought, in tune to a new poerful position.

 

He told her: Unhappily married, we just don't connect anymore, never have sex, she stays for the money and status. (HAHAHAHAHA) When I reach my financial goals, I want to take care of you forever.

 

She told him: She must have a lover. You poor thing. What a wonderful man you are. Let's go away together. You pay and pay and pay. I love you. I want a future with you. You would take care of me. We are soulmates. We'd be perfect together.

 

DDay: July 24, 2007

 

Me: Go get her. Get out, you lying sneaking dog!

 

He: I don't want her. It is you I want.

 

She: You obviously still love her. Go try to reconcile.

 

He: She hates me.

 

She: You poor thing. How could she not have known about us? You are meeting with unrelenting hostility. Come back to me. I would never treat you like that.

 

Me: Still in contact are we? Stay away for good. Or go NC, start seeing a therapist, and do not have any expectation of having me in your future.

Good Luck!

 

He: (to OW) Don't call me anymore. It's over.

 

She: Never!?? You mean we can't stay friends?

 

He: No!

 

Wow, her heart must be broken too! I am angriest at him. She must be also, for believing his lies and then for believing his lies about me and the state of our marriage, and then the state of our reconcillation because he needed her to be his Plan B should I file for divorce. I have only felt empathy for her and tried to call her.

 

She: No reply ever.

[NoIDidn't]

He told me: New Job, late nights, dinner meetings, traveling to a developmental property upstate where there was poor phone reception (true! I had been there with him.)

 

He became distant, critical, busy, busy, busy. Job stress we thought, in tune to a new poerful position.

 

He told her: Unhappily married, we just don't connect anymore, never have sex, she stays for the money and status. (HAHAHAHAHA) When I reach my financial goals, I want to take care of you forever.

 

She told him: She must have a lover. You poor thing. What a wonderful man you are. Let's go away together. You pay and pay and pay. I love you. I want a future with you. You would take care of me. We are soulmates. We'd be perfect together.

 

DDay: July 24, 2007

 

Me: Go get her. Get out, you lying sneaking dog!

 

He: I don't want her. It is you I want.

 

She: You obviously still love her. Go try to reconcile.

 

He: She hates me.

 

She: You poor thing. How could she not have known about us? You are meeting with unrelenting hostility. Come back to me. I would never treat you like that.

 

Me: Still in contact are we? Stay away for good. Or go NC, start seeing a therapist, and do not have any expectation of having me in your future.

Good Luck!

 

He: (to OW) Don't call me anymore. It's over.

 

She: Never!?? You mean we can't stay friends?

 

He: No!

 

Wow, her heart must be broken too! I am angriest at him. She must be also, for believing his lies and then for believing his lies about me and the state of our marriage, and then the state of our reconcillation because he needed her to be his Plan B should I file for divorce. I have only felt empathy for her and tried to call her.

 

She: No reply ever.

 

I love this post. I remember hearing through the grapevine from my H's co-workers (that the OW spilled ALL to) that I felt he was a paycheck!

 

What a surprise to me!

 

Great synopsis!

[Owl]

Because it does not sound like he is lying.

Or because they do not want to see the obvious.

Or because they think that once a cheater means only once a cheater, at least until they cheat again. The same goes for once a liar.

Or because they do not believe in labels or in branding labels on people.

Some lies are far worse than others, but I do not know anybody who never lied or found ways to hide distort the truth at least once in their lives.

Because they feel entitled to choose whether to believe him or not.

 

 

It seems to me that the exact same responses could have come from a BS if asked why they believed/didn't question the WS.

 

The main exceptions that I see where it wouldn't apply both ways is that the BS might not know that the WS is a cheater...(in reference to the once a cheater comment)...whereas the OW/OM knows for certain that the WS is at least "once a cheater".

 

The reality is that both parties are forced to make a choice to believe the WS in some fashion or another...and whoever ends up with the WS...OW/OM or BS...is also forced to find a way to deal with rebuilding of trust after seeing what the WS is truly capable of doing.

[NoIDidn't]

For the poster that thought I was paraphrasing her: no, I wasn't. That line is so popular, you are most certainly not the first to ever use it.

 

Many of the other lines have come up in this thread already:

 

"How could she NOT know?"

 

"She must not care about your marriage if she suspects and won't MAKE you stop?" (LOL, good luck with THAT one)

 

It all comes off as a way to blame the W for him stepping out (thanks, OB, you always come through with that rationale, LOL).

 

I have to start another thread about that one.

[whichwayisup]

Originally Posted by IfWishesWereHorses

Why does the BW have a wandering H in the first place??????

 

 

Bad choice in men.

 

Originally Posted by OB

I completely agree... from both sides of the fence.

 

So every single person who gets married and later in the future, the person who cheats (either bad men or bad women) on their partner is a bad choice to begin with? If that's the case why on earth would an OW/OM WANT that "bad choice" person since they firsthand the person IS capable of cheating!

 

Although I will never buy the premise that the W is totally clueless about her wayward H... unless she has her head completely buried in the sand -

 

Again, read NS's thread in infidelity. There's a perfect example of his wife NOT KNOWING because he's very good at lying and pretending.

[NoIDidn't]

So every single person who gets married and later in the future, the person who cheats (either bad men or bad women) on their partner is a bad choice to begin with? If that's the case why on earth would an OW/OM WANT that "bad choice" person since they firsthand the person IS capable of cheating!

 

 

 

 

You see why I have a problem following this logic. It doesn't make any sense. The happy/sappy hormones have fried reasoning capabilities - and sometimes permanently for those that claim to be out of the affair but still adhere to this logic.

 

(I'll just wait here for the next line to this that goes something like: "then why does the W want him since you want to know why the OW wants him?" Circular arguments can't be resolved basically.)

[whichwayisup]

"then why does the W want him since you want to know why the OW wants him?"

 

I'll answer. Because the wife said vows. She is ALLOWED to decide to give her H another chance. Not everyone is going to hand off their husbands to the OW and wish them well. Why on earth should a BS just divorce? People deserve second chances. Whatever the reasons are, are THEIR reasons and noone has the right to tell them what to do, they should blah blah blah because the spouse cheated. If there's kids involved it makes it harder.

Why should she walk away if she really doesn't want to and still loves her husband? She in a sense is obligated through her vows to try to work it out.

 

Just my opinion, like it or not.

[Mr. Lucky]

He told me: New Job, late nights, dinner meetings, traveling to a developmental property upstate where there was poor phone reception (true! I had been there with him.)

 

He became distant, critical, busy, busy, busy. Job stress we thought, in tune to a new poerful position.

 

He told her: Unhappily married, we just don't connect anymore, never have sex, she stays for the money and status. (HAHAHAHAHA) When I reach my financial goals, I want to take care of you forever.

 

She told him: She must have a lover. You poor thing. What a wonderful man you are. Let's go away together. You pay and pay and pay. I love you. I want a future with you. You would take care of me. We are soulmates. We'd be perfect together.

 

DDay: July 24, 2007

 

Me: Go get her. Get out, you lying sneaking dog!

 

He: I don't want her. It is you I want.

 

She: You obviously still love her. Go try to reconcile.

 

He: She hates me.

 

She: You poor thing. How could she not have known about us? You are meeting with unrelenting hostility. Come back to me. I would never treat you like that.

 

Me: Still in contact are we? Stay away for good. Or go NC, start seeing a therapist, and do not have any expectation of having me in your future.

Good Luck!

 

He: (to OW) Don't call me anymore. It's over.

 

She: Never!?? You mean we can't stay friends?

 

He: No!

 

Wow, her heart must be broken too! I am angriest at him. She must be also, for believing his lies and then for believing his lies about me and the state of our marriage, and then the state of our reconcillation because he needed her to be his Plan B should I file for divorce. I have only felt empathy for her and tried to call her.

 

She: No reply ever.

Great example and illustrates more than ever that, for the WS, it's all about them. Each person - both the OW and BS - simply becomes a means to whatever end the WS needs. Disheartening to think that people can be so casually arrogant with those they profess to care about...

 

Mr. Lucky

[OpenBook]

So every single person who gets married and later in the future, the person who cheats (either bad men or bad women) on their partner is a bad choice to begin with? If that's the case why on earth would an OW/OM WANT that "bad choice" person since they firsthand the person IS capable of cheating!

 

Actually that's a very good question... although I'm not convinced that men or women who cheat are necessarily bad people. They certainly made some bad decisions, and they're on a bad path for themselves and others, and their marital union may be a bad combination in itself... but bad people? I'm not qualified to make that call.

[whichwayisup]

Silly, then why did you agree with horses on this one?

 

Some are, some aren't, but usually they're not bad people, they just have made bad and selfish choices.