Why Does The OW.....

[nadiaj2727]

....judge the BW for suspecting an affair when she (the OW) knows one is going on?

 

It doesn't make any sense to me and the more I read it, the more puzzled I am by this.

 

"She treated me badly when she suspected but didn't know" (a paraphrase)

 

"She never had any proof but she suspected and didn't trust him for it" (a paraphrase)

 

I don't understand this nonsense. If the OW knows the the woman has a reason to not trust her wandering H, why does she judge her for it?

 

It makes absolutely no sense at all. Saying that a woman should trust her H all while knowing the woman has a very good reason to NOT trust him.

 

 

My short answer for you NoIDidn't is that people who are involved in affairs make very little sense at the time. *shrug* They do and say many illogical things. That is really all there is to it and believe me, I know from experience.

[NoIDidn't]

My short answer for you NoIDidn't is that people who are involved in affairs make very little sense at the time. *shrug* They do and say many illogical things. That is really all there is to it and believe me, I know from experience.

 

 

Hi, nadia! Long time no *see*!

 

In regards to the above quote, it is definitely illogical. People not under the influence of hormones and high emotion find it very illogical.

[fooled once]

About why I am believing him.... I chose to do so. I believe that he was not having much sex with his W, and that it was not the main problem in their marriage.

I admit the possibility of the existence of MM who stop having sex with their wives after starting an affair. I would not be here posting about it otherwise - I'd already be out of it.

 

 

 

I do not think this is the case... but if he is still having sex with her, everything else he told me is a lie.

 

he is either honest with me, or it is a whole castle of lies i am dealing with - you take one away, the architecture falls like a castle of cards.

 

 

 

Well, he never cried on my shoulder for not getting enough sex. And he never said that having little sex was *the* problem.

 

 

 

My worst suspicion about why she might have lost interest in having sex with him is much worse, actually.

 

 

 

No, I don't. Yes, he does. And I'm quite sure he would not allow anyone to call his W yucky.

 

Adun (sorry, I shortened your name) (hug) I just wanted to say thank you for participating in this discussion and NOT getting all defensive and pissy. I truly mean that. I have enjoyed this 'debate' per say and I appreciate your responses.

[fooled once]

I know my xMM talked about guys at work that were divorced. They lost a lot of material possessions and they took a financial hit and the exW's were still calling all the time, needing things, being witchy and ugly, etc. He said what's the point in losing your crap if you can't lose her?

 

As an ex wife, I can personally attest in MY situation, I packed 1/2 the house for him, allowed him to pay $200 UNDER the state guidelines for child support, didn't go through wage garnishment, (he paid me by check, LATE every single month for 12 years), and the ONLY time I called him was to return one of his MANY, begging calls for me to return or to discuss visitation.

 

And I know many women who handled there divorces the same way.

 

I think many ex wives get bitchy and vindictive when presented with a reason to. I know many divorced men who stuck the strews to the ex wife. So let's remember, men can be just as bitchy, ugly and nasty as ex wives.

[NoIDidn't]

I think many ex wives get bitchy and vindictive when presented with a reason to.

 

Yeah, especially when its clear that the guy loves his "stuff" more than his family. We tend to want to hit them where it hurts, when losing their family doesn't seem to phase them.

 

 

I'm not saying its right, but.....LOL.

[sadintexas]

As an ex wife, I can personally attest in MY situation, I packed 1/2 the house for him, allowed him to pay $200 UNDER the state guidelines for child support, didn't go through wage garnishment, (he paid me by check, LATE every single month for 12 years), and the ONLY time I called him was to return one of his MANY, begging calls for me to return or to discuss visitation.

 

Were you the one who filed for divorce or was he?

[LaGazelle]

Yet they still stay married to us bitter BW's even when they are free to go be with the OW.

 

Lol! Indeed, judging by one recent thread I saw here, not even in a case where a "non-contributing inferior" wife beats her husband until he's sore, he will still deny himself a full relationship with the OW who is really the true love of his life! The mind boggles...

[LaGazelle]

Exactly.

 

I guess I either choose to believe him, or I don't.

 

He also asked her to get separated a few months later.

Which is easier to believe since he is now legally separated.

...or so he says.

I guess that next time we get to see each other, I'll get to see the papers.

 

How are you sure she didn't ask him!?

[LaGazelle]

 

So... (getting back on the original topic... apologies for hijacking the thread ) I guess I judge BS (or, to be precise, I judge the idea of her that formed in my mind, which might or might not have much to do with the real BS) but it is nothing personal.

And I'm aware that I can think "how can you stick your head in the sand and not see problems in your marriage that go much beyond the affair?" all I want, but she has been with the man I love for 17 years, had children with him, and he does not regret their marriage even now that they are separating... chances -statistically speaking - that I could do any better are very low.

 

.....

 

Actually, I have a feeling that had she asked him questions more often, they might still be together... I would have probably never entered his life at all.

 

I guess I'd like to have a talk with her, somewhere in the future, as it would be the only way to know what is going in each other's minds.

 

Hmmm, assuming that only the W is responsible for effective communication in a marriage, then this is a fair view.

 

An alternative view is, perhaps her H lacks effective communication skills that would enable him to negotiate his needs and wants in an adult manner that is normal in everyday life.

 

In order for a marriage to work well both parties need to know how to communicate and problem-solve in order to get through the good, the bad and the ugly that comes with sharing life and intimacy with another human being.

 

All your MM's approach says is, even if he does make a life with you, unless you are able to anticipate his every need and desire (which unless you are super human, you won't), he will find another escape route...

[bentnotbroken]

As an ex wife, I can personally attest in MY situation, I packed 1/2 the house for him, allowed him to pay $200 UNDER the state guidelines for child support, didn't go through wage garnishment, (he paid me by check, LATE every single month for 12 years), and the ONLY time I called him was to return one of his MANY, begging calls for me to return or to discuss visitation.

 

And I know many women who handled there divorces the same way.

 

I think many ex wives get bitchy and vindictive when presented with a reason to. I know many divorced men who stuck the strews to the ex wife. So let's remember, men can be just as bitchy, ugly and nasty as ex wives.

 

 

:laugh:You were more magnanimous than I was. I felt that leaving him in one piece was more than what he deserved. I got not only what the law allowed but what his sense of personal preservation allowed. Try to keep that fake persona in tack no matter what:laugh: This was a man who not only planned to screw me over, but to allow OW to mother my children(she's a better mother you know)and to cut me out of their lives by helping me to end my own life. I think I was very generous.

[Adunaphel]

I think that may be a factor.

 

But I also think if you take the "competition" out of it, the BS usually realizes that something was wrong in the M and she/he wasn't happy anyway.

 

But if the BS goes through d-day, feels competition with the AP, feels like this intruder is not going to "take" anything from her/him then you have a much more stressful situation for all involved. And usually the OP or the MP just gives up.

 

I think this makes perfect sense... you have great insigths, as usual.

 

My short answer for you NoIDidn't is that people who are involved in affairs make very little sense at the time. *shrug* They do and say many illogical things. That is really all there is to it and believe me, I know from experience.

 

nadiaj2727! Nice to see you again.

I missed reading your posts. :love:

 

Adun (sorry, I shortened your name) (hug) I just wanted to say thank you for participating in this discussion and NOT getting all defensive and pissy. I truly mean that. I have enjoyed this 'debate' per say and I appreciate your responses.

 

Thanks, fooled once, and (hug) to you.

It was an interesting discussion (as was the original thread... which I am still contributing to hijack...sorry:o).

 

How are you sure she didn't ask him!?

 

How can I be sure that I will not be hit by lightning before sunset?

 

I can't.

 

I just think the possibility is not high.

 

If she asked him, of course, this would make him someone who lied to me about a lot of things.

 

Hmmm, assuming that only the W is responsible for effective communication in a marriage, then this is a fair view.

 

An alternative view is, perhaps her H lacks effective communication skills that would enable him to negotiate his needs and wants in an adult manner that is normal in everyday life.

 

How many times is someone supposed to negotiate their wants and needs in an adult manner before giving up?

What if the other person is not receptive?

What if someone gets tired of being the initiator? (not only of sex/physical contact but expecially of communication?)

 

In order for a marriage to work well both parties need to know how to communicate and problem-solve in order to get through the good, the bad and the ugly that comes with sharing life and intimacy with another human being.

 

You said *both* parties.

Let's assume that for years it is one of the partners that initiates most of the attempts to communicate and solve problems. I think it is in the human nature to end up feeling frustrated and getting tired.

 

What if instead it wasn't either partner's fault? What if they have just different means of communicating, speak two different languages, cannot really get on the same wavelength, can't be fully theirselves?

 

I think it is very unfair to assume that if someone cheats, he must be the bad guy in *all* other aspects of the marriage.

 

He is not trying to blame his W (you can actually sometimes be not happy with someone without blaming them), he said multiple times that if there is to place blame it is probably more of his fault (he knew about his W's personality when he married her), but this does not make him the bad guy.

 

I'm also adding that he is married to a person who would probably be the *IDEAL* W for the typical cake-eater.

He chose a form of half-honesty, which is much better than what most cheaters do, he did not want to string two women along when he started the A, he did not try once to badmouth his W, so...

I guess I am starting to get a little defensive towards him, expecially if I feel that he is targeted with assumptions that go beyond the standard assumpions about WSs.

I promise that if I ever realize that he is no better than the average MM and he is just a selfish being, I'll report on LS and admit that you were right.

 

All your MM's approach says is, even if he does make a life with you, unless you are able to anticipate his every need and desire (which unless you are super human, you won't), he will find another escape route...

I actually think that what my MM's approach (which btw you cannot really know but just imagine, as I do not recall having ever given a lot of information about it) says is that he needs/wants to be with someone he can *talk* with, has something in common with him, will be able to communicate that she has a problem and help solving it instead of just giving him the silent treatment or pretend than nothing is happening.

To be honest, I think it is going to be quite hard to live with someone who has been married with a woman who is very kind-hearted, but who goes from being generically unable to stand her ground (to the point of bordering with acting like a doormat) to not being able to communicate problems in an effective way.

 

...notice how it now sounds like I am attacking/judging his W?

 

Defending someone while avoiding to sound like you are attacking someone else (be the W or another poster) is not so easy, unfortunately.

 

I guess that some personal issues of mine are also coming into play, as a personal pet peeve of mine is people who choose silence, body language and occasional angry outbursts directed at random as an alternative to direct, adult and effective communication.

 

Hey, in a way I got back on topic.

Thinking about it... since it's just happened to me... would so many OW judge the BS if they didn't felt like having to "defend" the MM?

[bentnotbroken]

"would so many ow judge bs if they didn't feel like having to defend MM?

 

That's interesting. Defending someone you believe is the underdog and in a situation they can't control, IMO is normal. The only problem with that is the lack of research to see if that is truly the case. When I am looking for answers, I want the best information possible. I try to find the best source to have a healthy dose of checks and balances. So I guess, if I were an OW, my thought is that the best source would be the wife. Or if you are an OM, the BH.

 

If the truth(which it probably isn't) is really what is being sought. Talking to both would give the reconstructed view of the marriage. We know that both sides remember what they want and put the spin on it that best reflects what we want others to see, so the truth should be somewhere in the middle. Just a thought.

[tami-chan]

Why doesn't the WS leave? Because s/he is vested in the marriage....not necessarily about love or passion but about money, kids, comfort, familiarity, acceptance and all other good things....and not necessarily in that order either.

 

My H refused for us to get a divorce-even now when he knows everything....he wants to fight it out...I do NOT believe he is in love with me-I do believe that given the many affairs he has had and our estrangement before I had my own affair he is more willing to "work on" our marriage than marry another woman. He wants to take full responsibility of my choice...and wants to give me credit for "standing by him" all these years and keeping the family "intact" , the house and finances in order, etc. Too little, too late.

[Adunaphel]

That's interesting. Defending someone you believe is the underdog and in a situation they can't control, IMO is normal. The only problem with that is the lack of research to see if that is truly the case. When I am looking for answers, I want the best information possible. I try to find the best source to have a healthy dose of checks and balances. So I guess, if I were an OW, my thought is that the best source would be the wife. Or if you are an OM, the BH.

 

Problem is (from the OW's side), if the BS does not know about the affair, if you tell her before MM does, you take away from him the chance of telling her himself. Not only MM might not be happy with you, but you won't ever be able to know if he would have told her himself... or if he would have truly left without prompting on either part. Does it make any sense?

 

Besides, if the BS already knows, and is not happy about it... I do not think a phone call to ask her version of the story of their marriage would be welcome. It might be perceived as rubbing salt in the wound... expecially if the MM does not want to be married anymore. In addition if the call upsets her, she could hold MM responsible for it.

 

Now that I think of it... I got a couple of undisclosed number calls on my cell phone today. It is not the first time, but i was never able to pick up the phone (most times I was busy, plus I hate calls featuring undislosed numbers, plus... a couple of times I just chickened out). It is not very likely, but I think there is a slight chance it could be the BS. I will try to keep my phone at hand, as - if it is her - it could be a good occasion to hear her side of the story.

[fooled once]

Were you the one who filed for divorce or was he?

 

I was the one who filed.

[bentnotbroken]

Problem is (from the OW's side), if the BS does not know about the affair, if you tell her before MM does, you take away from him the chance of telling her himself. Not only MM might not be happy with you, but you won't ever be able to know if he would have told her himself... or if he would have truly left without prompting on either part. Does it make any sense?

 

Besides, if the BS already knows, and is not happy about it... I do not think a phone call to ask her version of the story of their marriage would be welcome. It might be perceived as rubbing salt in the wound... expecially if the MM does not want to be married anymore. In addition if the call upsets her, she could hold MM responsible for it.

 

Now that I think of it... I got a couple of undisclosed number calls on my cell phone today. It is not the first time, but i was never able to pick up the phone (most times I was busy, plus I hate calls featuring undislosed numbers, plus... a couple of times I just chickened out). It is not very likely, but I think there is a slight chance it could be the BS. I will try to keep my phone at hand, as - if it is her - it could be a good occasion to hear her side of the story.

 

 

I hope you didn't come off as everything directed at you. I get in these trains of thought and I just go with them. I appreciate your answers though. It was more me thinking out loud, than directing everything at you. I have actually thought about this a bit today. I guess some thoughts have been floating around in my head the last couple of days. Again I appreciate your honest responses.

[Adunaphel]

I hope you didn't come off as everything directed at you. I get in these trains of thought and I just go with them. I appreciate your answers though. It was more me thinking out loud, than directing everything at you. I have actually thought about this a bit today. I guess some thoughts have been floating around in my head the last couple of days. Again I appreciate your honest responses.

 

Aw, sorry... I't just that I got caught in your thoughts, which were of my interest.

[bentnotbroken]

Aw, sorry... I't just that I got caught in your thoughts, which were of my interest.

 

 

AAAhhhh, I can tell I had already had one drink too many by the time I started posting:o:p It was an interesting train of thought though that I would love to give a little more time to. I got a new project going on that is driving me to drink.

[OWoman]

Yet they still stay married to us bitter BW's even when they are free to go be with the OW.

 

Mine didn't.

[OWoman]

If he's "caught", that probably means it happens before he's seperated himself enough from the BS to be comfortable with committing to divorce and a full blown relationship with the affair partner.

 

 

I think it also depends on the nature and purpose of the A. If the A was to test the waters outside of the M (an "LSD" A) then perhaps getting "caught" lets him off the hook with having to end an A that's served its purpose. If the A was an "exit A", perhaps he is too much of a wuss to own his decision, and wants to be be thrown out so that he's not the baddy who walked out on the M / family... at least in his own mind. If the A is a "soulmate" A, then separation from the BS is easier because he's transitioning TO something, not just FROM something, and so it's easier to leave - whether or not he announces his REAL reasons for doing so. (Note - I said easIER not EASY.)

[OWoman]

That's interesting. Defending someone you believe is the underdog and in a situation they can't control, IMO is normal. The only problem with that is the lack of research to see if that is truly the case. When I am looking for answers, I want the best information possible. I try to find the best source to have a healthy dose of checks and balances. So I guess, if I were an OW, my thought is that the best source would be the wife. Or if you are an OM, the BH.

 

the BW is likely to be as biased - but from the other side. I'd go for more neutral observers - friends, colleagues, or even extended family - who've observed over the years. I found the info I got from them very accurate - nothing I've seen or experienced for myself has contradicted anything they had told me before.

[bentnotbroken]

the BW is likely to be as biased - but from the other side. I'd go for more neutral observers - friends, colleagues, or even extended family - who've observed over the years. I found the info I got from them very accurate - nothing I've seen or experienced for myself has contradicted anything they had told me before.

 

 

Those people are still on the outside looking in. I shouldn't added that only the people in the house, in the marriage, know what is going on. So I would listen to both sides and go to the middle. That's where the truth is usually found. But I believe since they are in the A, AP won't look for the truth, they are going to look for validation of the person they are with so that the A can continue.

 

Owoman, you and GEL are exceptions to what usually happens with A. Just as there are exceptions of the marriage surviving and improving and A's never happening again. So I think most people post about the norm, or what they hope is the norm.

[White Flower]

What I find interesting is when an OW questions a BW for staying with a man who cheated on her, but when the MM is cheating with the OW, theirs is a relationship to be trusted.

 

The OW will say that the MM didn't cheat on her, he cheated on his wife and he won't cheat on the OW. The fact is, he cheated and if OW thinks he will do it again to the BW, what will stop him from cheating on the OW? After all, he is the cheater right?

He is definitely cheating on both of them and the OW needs to keep in mind that IF he did it to his W then he could very well do it to the OW.

[NoIDidn't]

He is definitely cheating on both of them and the OW needs to keep in mind that IF he did it to his W then he could very well do it to the OW.

 

I like the way you worded this. It doesn't have the "he definitely will cheat again" feel to it.

 

He could very well cheat again on his W or on the OW if he leaves his marriage.