Pregnant from an affair

[lkjh]

You must have missed this part:

 

 

 

As to the rest, yes, the fathers are responsible for their share of child support, but she is also responsible for her share, plus everything else including caring for 3 children.

 

You can say she's "strong", but that's for her to decide. Actually being a single parent is not as easy as it to tell her to be one when it's not you who has to actually do it.

 

And yes, to me, it absolutely would matter who the father was. If the father is the one who was cheating on his long term girlfriend and does not want to be a father to the child and the kid will only know him from the checks he's forced to send every month...yep, that would influence my decision very much. So I would most definitely take that into consideration.

 

 

Tami, as always you jump the gun hoping for someone to acknowledge you

 

 

Norajane, I didn't say she was strong, she did. Also, I didn't miss the part about this being her 3rd cesarean section, I just think the risk is being overplayed. Like all surgical procedures there is risk; bleeding, complications, pre-mature birth, reduced chances at future natural birth, and so on. But overall cesarean sections are generally safe. There are still risk but they are not considered high risk. The doctor told her she was at high risk but that does not mean he meant death. It seem like she was reffering to passing out and minor complications. She would have to tell us what he meant. If the doctor thaught she was at risk for death he would have recommended abortion, but she never said that.

 

Don't get me wrong, I know there are risk and I always prefer natural birth. I am not saying there are no risk, but there are also risk from abortion. After 6 weeks she will need a surgical procedure for abortion, so many of the same risk are there. There is still the heavy bleeding, infection, anthestic complications, internal organ damage, Uteris damage, scar tissue, future pre-mature baby increase, sepsis.

 

The reason why I disregard the risk as a reason to have a abortion is because of 2 reasons: flat out I am against abortion unless it is under extreme circumstances(rape, genetic disorder, or real threat to mothers life), and second the use of risk as a reason would only be valid if abortion was risk free. When you take into account the risk already listed and then the emotional affects; abortion is high risk.

 

http://www.webmd.com/baby/tc/cesarean-section-risks-and-complications

http://www.childbirthconnection.org/article.asp?ck=10166

http://www.childbirth.org/section/risks.html

http://www.pregnancycenters.org/abortion.html

[MistyK]

Tami, as always you jump the gun hoping for someone to acknowledge you

 

 

Norajane, I didn't say she was strong, she did. Also, I didn't miss the part about this being her 3rd cesarean section, I just think the risk is being overplayed. Like all surgical procedures there is risk; bleeding, complications, pre-mature birth, reduced chances at future natural birth, and so on. But overall cesarean sections are generally safe. There are still risk but they are not considered high risk. The doctor told her she was at high risk but that does not mean he meant death. It seem like she was reffering to passing out and minor complications. She would have to tell us what he meant. If the doctor thaught she was at risk for death he would have recommended abortion, but she never said that.

 

Don't get me wrong, I know there are risk and I always prefer natural birth. I am not saying there are no risk, but there are also risk from abortion. After 6 weeks she will need a surgical procedure for abortion, so many of the same risk are there. There is still the heavy bleeding, infection, anthestic complications, internal organ damage, Uteris damage, scar tissue, future pre-mature baby increase, sepsis.

 

The reason why I disregard the risk as a reason to have a abortion is because of 2 reasons: flat out I am against abortion unless it is under extreme circumstances(rape, genetic disorder, or real threat to mothers life), and second the use of risk as a reason would only be valid if abortion was risk free. When you take into account the risk already listed and then the emotional affects; abortion is high risk.

 

http://www.webmd.com/baby/tc/cesarean-section-risks-and-complications

http://www.childbirthconnection.org/article.asp?ck=10166

http://www.childbirth.org/section/risks.html

http://www.pregnancycenters.org/abortion.html

 

All well and good, but this is not a podium and we aren't having a debate on the merits of abortion. Can we refocus on the poster, please?

[norajane]

I always prefer natural birth.

 

I didn't realize men could give birth, natural or otherwise!

 

 

So many questions that i dont have answers too and i wish i did.

 

Is there anyone in your life you can talk to about this? I think it would be helpful if you had some support from a family member or friend.

[lkjh]

I didn't realize men could give birth, natural or otherwise!

 

 

 

 

Haven't you seen the movie junior?

[fooled once]

Tami, as always you jump the gun hoping for someone to acknowledge you

 

 

Norajane, I didn't say she was strong, she did. Also, I didn't miss the part about this being her 3rd cesarean section, I just think the risk is being overplayed. Like all surgical procedures there is risk; bleeding, complications, pre-mature birth, reduced chances at future natural birth, and so on. But overall cesarean sections are generally safe. There are still risk but they are not considered high risk. The doctor told her she was at high risk but that does not mean he meant death. It seem like she was reffering to passing out and minor complications. She would have to tell us what he meant. If the doctor thaught she was at risk for death he would have recommended abortion, but she never said that.

 

Don't get me wrong, I know there are risk and I always prefer natural birth. I am not saying there are no risk, but there are also risk from abortion. After 6 weeks she will need a surgical procedure for abortion, so many of the same risk are there. There is still the heavy bleeding, infection, anthestic complications, internal organ damage, Uteris damage, scar tissue, future pre-mature baby increase, sepsis.

 

The reason why I disregard the risk as a reason to have a abortion is because of 2 reasons: flat out I am against abortion unless it is under extreme circumstances(rape, genetic disorder, or real threat to mothers life), and second the use of risk as a reason would only be valid if abortion was risk free. When you take into account the risk already listed and then the emotional affects; abortion is high risk.

 

http://www.webmd.com/baby/tc/cesarean-section-risks-and-complications

http://www.childbirthconnection.org/article.asp?ck=10166

http://www.childbirth.org/section/risks.html

http://www.pregnancycenters.org/abortion.html

 

Sorry but you really don't know what you are talking about.

 

It isn't a "surgical" procedure for the abortion - it is performed in a doctors office. It is not something you stay over night from.

 

And it is obvious you have never had a c-section because a 3rd one IS HUGELY high risk due to the damage to the uterus, scar tissue, etc.

 

Looking up stuff online isn't the same as FIRST HAND experience. And recovering from a c-section is hard enough - rolling the dice on hoping a 3rd one doesn't cause issues -- not something *I* personally would take and possibly have my other 2 children NOT have a mother.

 

 

Abortion is much less "high risk" than a c-section. Again, please it would be helpful if you had first hand experience before stating things that are incorrect.

[lkjh]

Fooled once,

Acually I do know what I am talking about, the medical option that you refer to is only offered for the first six weeks of pregnancy. After the first six weeks it is a surgical procedure, it is also called vacuum procedure because they literally suck it out. If you wait longer it than 12 weeks the procedure is a 2 day process. Not all surgical procedures require a over the night stay at a doctors office. Removal of melanomas are a surgical procedure that does not require a over the night stay

 

Everything I said is correct even if you don't agree with it. I do not need to have a abortion to understand the process of it. If that was the case no male doctor could ever actually preform this procedure.

[MistyK]

Fooled once,

Acually I do know what I am talking about, the medical option that you refer to is only offered for the first six weeks of pregnancy. After the first six weeks it is a surgical procedure, it is also called vacuum procedure because they literally suck it out. If you wait longer it than 12 weeks the procedure is a 2 day process. Not all surgical procedures require a over the night stay at a doctors office. Removal of melanomas are a surgical procedure that does not require a over the night stay

 

Everything I said is correct even if you don't agree with it. I do not need to have a abortion to understand the process of it. If that was the case no male doctor could ever actually preform this procedure.

 

For crying out loud get off it. This isn't about you and your beliefs.

[fooled once]

Fooled once,

Acually I do know what I am talking about, the medical option that you refer to is only offered for the first six weeks of pregnancy. After the first six weeks it is a surgical procedure, it is also called vacuum procedure because they literally suck it out. If you wait longer it than 12 weeks the procedure is a 2 day process. Not all surgical procedures require a over the night stay at a doctors office. Removal of melanomas are a surgical procedure that does not require a over the night stay

 

Everything I said is correct even if you don't agree with it. I do not need to have a abortion to understand the process of it. If that was the case no male doctor could ever actually preform this procedure.

 

Reading about something isn't the same as being involved.

 

I KNOW about the process intimiately as I had a niece who had 2 abortions and I was there during them.

 

So I DO know what *I* am talking about AND I had one myself - again I KNOW the procedure. You read about it.

[fooled once]

Thank you Misty.

 

I just didn't want his blown up drama to scare the OP.

 

She, the OP, needs to understand how much this pregnancy - a HIGH RISK PREGNANCY - could damage her and could end her life. And then where would her 2 other kids be?

[MistyK]

It sounds like she does understand it. But obviously there will always be ideological wingnuts who will try to make her feel crappy about putting her other two children first. And this annoys the holy hell out of me.

[lkjh]

Misty,

I am allowed to give advice based off my beliefs. I was responding to fool once because she claimed I didn't know what I was talking about, when I gave advice to the OP.

 

Fooled Once,

actually, if you go through my older post you will see that I am not talking about something I read online. I am a biomedical engineer who is in a medical masters program right now. You claimed I was lying about this and I am not. It's cool that you want to push for the justification of this procedure and claim that it is not surgical and completely safe, but you are wrong.

[sb129]

Haven't you seen the movie junior?

 

Oh yes, because life is JUST like in the movies.

 

All well and good, but this is not a podium and we aren't having a debate on the merits of abortion. Can we refocus on the poster, please?

 

Totally. Lkjh- you may not believe in abortion, thats totally up to you.

But you are now trying to push that belief onto the OP rather than trying to see it from her perspective. We get it- you think abortion is wrong.

Enough with the stats and soap box posturing, all you are doing is confusing the issue with your own beliefs, which isn't particularly constructive.

 

It sounds like she does understand it. But obviously there will always be ideological wingnuts who will try to make her feel crappy about putting her other two children first. And this annoys the holy hell out of me.

 

And me.

 

ESP when its a man who has no idea (I REPEAT NO IDEA) how freaking scary pregnancy is.

 

I am pregnant with my first child and it was a planned pregnancy- I am in a happy marriage and I am financially stable.

And its STILL scary - I am still worrying about whether or not the baby is going to be healthy and how my birthing process will go, and whether or not I will be a good parent.

 

Being told by a man "Oh well I am all for a natural birth" quite literally makes me want to - that would be nice in an ideal world, but when the time comes, I want whats best for me and the baby to be healthy and safe, and if that involves a C-section or drugs, then so be it.

And I refuse to be judged by that.

 

Just as I would refuse to be judged by said man if I decided to terminate a pregnancy that was both risky to me and the babys health AND that was going to be born into such s sticky personal situation.

 

I would have seriously considered a termination at 20 weeks if the anatomy scan had shown serious malformations or disabilities. Thankfully everything was fine.

Judge away though LKJH- I am sure you will have something to say about that, but until you are in the situation yourself, you can never understand exactly what its like.

[norajane]

Fooled once,

Acually I do know what I am talking about, the medical option that you refer to is only offered for the first six weeks of pregnancy.

 

Yes, and in the OP's case, she stated in her first post that she is scheduled to take the non-surgical pill to induce an abortion. So there is no purpose to discussing other procedures.

 

im booked in twice to take this pill

[sb129]

Yes, thanks NJ, thats what I thought she had said too.

 

I was quite sure that you could have the pill after six weeks- after all, many women don't even KNOW they are pregnant until after six weeks.

 

I found out for sure when I was about 8 weeks, and my GP said that medical termination was still an option then.

[lkjh]

Sb129,

Im not trying to push my beliefs on people, there are just a few people trying to convince the OP that if she doesn't get a abortion her health is at risk. I didn't ask for any of you to "prove" me wrong.My advice was simple, lying and cheating got you into the mess and it won't get you out.

 

Actually I believe in abortion when it comes to extreme circumstances like rape and genetic disorder. Just not when its the easy way out because of choices

[fooled once]

Sb129,

Im not trying to push my beliefs on people, there are just a few people trying to convince the OP that if she doesn't get a abortion her health is at risk. I didn't ask for any of you to "prove" me wrong.My advice was simple, lying and cheating got you into the mess and it won't get you out.

 

Actually I believe in abortion when it comes to extreme circumstances like rape and genetic disorder. Just not when its the easy way out because of choices

 

Her health IS at risk - that is why her DOCTOR told her that she is HIGH risk.

 

No one is lying and cheating with their advice. Many of us as WOMEN actually KNOW what pregnancy and/or abortion feel like and I believe we are more able to let the OP know certain things vs a man who read about it or saw a movie but has NO real life experience with having a baby or an abortion.

[lkjh]

Fooled once, some of you are just trying to convince her to take this route because it makes you feel better. Like its some kind of big victory for women or something. You keep going back to this is being a woman thing but its not. I know enough about abortion and kids to give my advice and you won't convince me otherwise.

 

When her doctor tells her she needs a abortion and keeping it is out of the question, you can make the health risk point all you want.

[sb129]

Some people (and there are some on this forum, although not on this thread) would say that an abortion in this situation would be a victory for men, because it will save the father from having to pay years of child support even if he didn't want the baby.

[norajane]

Fooled once, some of you are just trying to convince her to take this route because it makes you feel better.

 

None of us are trying to convince her to terminate the pregnancy. She brought it up as an option she is considering. And some of us are suggesting things she should consider before making a decision either way. Things that we would consider if we were in her situation.

 

Health is one of those factors. As are job, finances, who the baby father is, her support system, if any. As is just plain not wanting to be a mother again under the circumstances. Much as you might not like that because of your beliefs, it is very much a consideration for a woman.

 

Actually I believe in abortion when it comes to extreme circumstances like rape and genetic disorder. Just not when its the easy way out because of choices

So you think she should bear a child as her punishment for her choices?

[tami-chan]

well if she is at very high risk, then I think its time to get the tubes tied.

 

either that or stop having sex.

 

I agree..this is what I said before:

 

I do not mean to be harsh, but seriously, after this baby, you need to have your tubes tied or something...

 

But, that is not her dilemma right now, that's something she can choose later on.

[tami-chan]

 

There are still risk but they are not considered high risk. The doctor told her she was at high risk but that does not mean he meant death. It seem like she was reffering to passing out and minor complications. She would have to tell us what he meant. If the doctor thaught she was at risk for death he would have recommended abortion, but she never said that.

Ikjh, are you a doctor (I'm not being a smarta$$, I am asking a sincere question)? As I have said before while third c-sections are fairly routine it does raise the risk factor. Look, I don't purport to know the details of the first and second c-sections, because she did not share it with us and I actually have to see the doctor's notes, etc. to know why 1) there were alarm bells 2) why she was passing in and out-what kind of anesthesia was used? was there blood loss? how much oxygen did she need? 4) I will take her doctor's word for it when he said "she is HIGH risk"....until there is data that she is not.

 

Who are we to counter her doctor?

 

Abortion CAN be high-risk. The farther along the pregnancy the higher the risk. At 6 weeks, however, norajane, is correct, the risk is not as high as a third c-section or even a first....because while it is an invasive procedure ( and anytime there an invasive procedure is being done, there is always risk for all kinds of things) there is no incision and in the US general anesthesia is usually not required or even offered...the doctor numbs the cervix and the procedure takes about 5-10 minutes(a very simple procedure) and it is usually performed on an outpatient basis....unlke c-section where the hospital stay is required. There is reason for the disparity in after-care.

[NoIDidn't]

This thread illustrates the point to me that some men do not understand the female body and the risks we undertake in childbearing.

 

A high-risk pregnancy is nothing to poo-poo over. And, while being a biomedical engineering student is a good thing, it is NOT the same thing as being this young lady's doctor. Other women who have had similar experiences are in a far better position to understand her needs than a man that isn't willing to consider or admit that he only knows what he has read and is being led by his beliefs more than any facts presented here.

 

I was trying to post earlier and my toddler cut off my PC before I could hit Submit. LOL. When I found out that I was pregnant with said toddler, I was unsure of having another child, so I called the only clinic that provided abortions in my area. I was told that the chemical abortion was only viable after 8 weeks and before 12 weeks. So basically, they can't even do that before 6 weeks without needing to do a *surgical* in case all the tissue isn't removed. But enough about that as it is very depressing.

 

I haven't seen the OP return to post anything to her own thread. I really hope we haven't run her away with our passionate discussion of her very personal plight.

 

I hope she comes back.

[tami-chan]

A biomedical engineering student? oh...so you know hospital equipments(big ones and small ones), prosthetics, etc...1) why, how and where to order the equipments 2) to repair the equipments 3) develop new equipments. Very interesting.

 

A Surgical abortion simply means it is an invasive procedure that requires instruments. It does not mean, incision.

 

A medical abortion is when the patient takes a pill to terminate the pregnancy ( has to be early on ...max 8 weeks)...a follow up with the doctor is a MUST, to make sure that termination occurred and there are no complications.

 

NiD, many clinics do not do medical abortions, they prefer surgical abortion, precisely because the MD sees the patient, does the procedure and barring complications that should be it...in a medical abortion...well...see above.

[NoIDidn't]

NiD, many clinics do not do medical abortions, they prefer surgical abortion, precisely because the MD sees the patient, does the procedure and barring complications that should be it...in a medical abortion...well...see above.

 

 

I guess different clinics have different procedures. I don't want to keep talking about abortion as I don't think anyone is pushing it, its just a conversation topic, so this will hopefully be my last on it.

 

The clinic I called actually required three visits for a chemical/medical one vs. two for the surgical.

 

I obviously decided against it, but mainly because of all of the visits that were required. First I had to have a pregnancy test and an ultrasound to verify dates. Then, I had to have a "procedure" of some sort done and be given the pill. Then, I had to come back and have another u/s to make sure it "took". And if it didn't take, I would have had to have a surgical anyway. It was too much given all that I was already facing.

 

SOrry for the further t/j all.

[lkjh]

A biomedical engineering student? oh...so you know hospital equipments(big ones and small ones), prosthetics, etc...1) why, how and where to order the equipments 2) to repair the equipments 3) develop new equipments. Very interesting.

 

A Surgical abortion simply means it is an invasive procedure that requires instruments. It does not mean, incision.

 

A medical abortion is when the patient takes a pill to terminate the pregnancy ( has to be early on ...max 8 weeks)...a follow up with the doctor is a MUST, to make sure that termination occurred and there are no complications.

 

NiD, many clinics do not do medical abortions, they prefer surgical abortion, precisely because the MD sees the patient, does the procedure and barring complications that should be it...in a medical abortion...well...see above.

 

Tami, I am a engineer not a engineering student. I am a student in a different medical program now. The pill option you are talking about is not offered after 5 or 6 weeks(in most places). The surgical option starts at 5 weeks and around 12 weeks.

 

Noraajane,

You most of you(3 or 4) are just trying to convince her to get the abortion because it makes you feel like you are winning something. Most of you have not given a single reason to have the child, just reasons to terminate it. If you were really trying to help her make the best the decision, you would offer info on both sides. You guys have tried using, her other children, her finances, the men(that may be the father) and her health as reasons to have it. All I did is point out that abortion is just ask risky and you all are set on proving abortion is the best road.