I am the other woman

[rainbow]

"I am the other woman." How did I get here? I ask myself this question often. I was(will be) married 4 yrs in Jan. I left my husband 3 mos ago - agonized over the decision for about 2years. Stepped outside the marriage once, went to marriage counseling for 9 mos and it still fell apart despite my efforts. I realize now through therapy, I never loved my husband, I loved the "picture frame" around my life...nice job, nice house, comfort security. I started trying to have a baby while going through marriage couns. In heinsight, which is always the best sight, I was just trying to be happy. Through extremely supportive friends, family and individual therapy, I know now my husband and I are just extremely different people who look at everything differently. He lacked self esteem, which in turn led to mistrust, posession, jealousy, and no support of what I wanted to accomplish in my life. To top it off he was a drinker. During the last mos of our therapy I became involved with a second person. This person is still in my life and he is married. The first person I believe kept me in a state of "deadlock" because I was scared that I was leaving for him. I did not want to leave for another person. I wanted to go on my own terms and be sure the love was gone. It is.

 

I moved out, got my own apt and now I am deeply in love with a married man. this person is also very unhappy and has been in his own personal silent hell of deciding on whether to end it, even before me. The person who initiates divorce typically has complempated it for a year or more and stepping outside of the marriage is a way to know that there is something else out there. That you are desirable and you self esteem resurfaces.

 

But me leaving has made our relationship easier on him. He can call me now whenever HE wants and stop by whenever HE wants. Of course I never say no, b/c I love him. We both know that even if he did leave it would be a long process... divorce , healing, getting settled, etc. but I do dream of a life with him. I know there are problems he has and she has problems with him. But that is not for me to try and figure out w/o driving myself crazy.

 

A person must be ready to make the move on their own for the right reasons. We have "broken up" over a dozen times knowing that it is best. but then an email comes and the a phone call then a meeting. It's a vicious circle. I know he loves me. But I also know what we BOTH are doing is wrong. It is complete limbo and not fair to anyone involved. We have been somewhat caught so now she does not trust him but at the same time will not confront him. She is obviouslly in denial. If he tells me that he is going to stay and go to marriage counseling that will feel like an answer and I will be able to walk away. I think he is avoiding the confrontation with his wife b/c he is scared of not talking to me anymore and probably already came to the conclusion that his marriage of 20+ yrs is not going to change - at least not without years of hard work through counseling on both sides.

 

I guess I don't have any questions, b/c I know none of you could possible have an answer. He is everything my husband wasn't. But how can it be real. At least not in this lifetime. Divorce is not an easy thing and getting over a broken heart in the midst of it is even more excruciating. I talked to him earlier today and he thinks she wants to talk tonight. I pray he calls tomorrow to end it. I am not strong enough yet......

[ThisGirlNameKD]

Some women stay with their husbands regardless of their infidelities. They just turn the other way and feel that a man would be a man, and he could do whatever, but he will be coming home to her. And then, some women do forgive their husbands when they find out that they have had affairs. So, her knowing about both of you does not guarantee that she's going to pull the plug on the marriage. If this man has been married to his wife for 20+ years, though you say he's unhappy, he's in a comfort zone. And it's possible to be in a comfort zone with people even though the relationship is not the best. And that's why he's not leaving--the few years you two have been together does not compared to the 20 years he has with his wife. If he has been unhappy for 20+ years and yet manage to stay in the relationship, I doubt it very seriously that he plans on going anywhere anytime soon if ever. If he has an affair on the side, he get the best of both worlds: the comfort of knowing someone is always there and always around (the wife), and the relationship he with you. Even if the both of you got together, how can you be sure that he will not end up cheating on you or that you will end up cheating on him?

[Stone]

Just my opinion from my personal experience but if you only left your husband three months ago it would probably be best to take some time and get to know and love yourself again. Three months isn't very long and doesn't seem like you have been single at all.

 

Being single for awhile isn't a bad thing you learn more about yourself and a bigger variety of people. It sounds to me you don't really know what you wan't Don't jump into another relationship right now

 

Figure out what you want and take some time out.

 

Remember he is still married and If he's cheating on her that doesn't mean he won't cheat on you

 

Best of Luck

[bark]

I'm in a similar situation to the married man you love. I have been married for 20 years somewhat happily.

 

I met a married woman at work and we embarked on a torrid 3 year affair. My affair was probably similar to yours: the intensity, passion and love was over-the-top. (Note: One usually gets pounded at LS for saying anything positive about an affair. The mostly female LS posters view adulterers, especially male ones, as just 1 rung above child molesters). My wife, too, never broached the subject and she knew. She knew.

 

Eight months ago my lover--herself the mother of 2 young children-- ended the sexual/romantic part of our affair. But we're still very, very emotionally involved.

In other words, it's still a dangerous, highly inflammable situation.

 

Like your married lover, I am deeply unhappy in my marriage, and have been for a few years, but I am in that comfort zone another poster described. Many guys like to have the postcard perfect, "American Dream" family and an intensely romantic/sexual relationship "on the side". That way, you get the best of both worlds.

 

And that's what you are: "on the side." I suspect you will always be "on the side." Most married men, especially after a 20 year marriage and kids, don't act rashly. They want to minimize disruption and protect their reputation. The status quo always benefits the married guy in these triangles.

 

I also agree with the poster that you should get to know yourself, test the waters, before embarking on another marriage. I know: easier said than done. But isn't everything?

 

Good luck.

[moimeme]

Note: One usually gets pounded at LS for saying anything positive about an affair. The mostly female LS posters view adulterers, especially male ones, as just 1 rung above child molesters

 

Untrue. Female adulterers get a rougher time, I do believe. And nobody is ranking them near child molesters. Your guilt is skewing your opinion.

Many guys like to have the postcard perfect, "American Dream" family and an intensely romantic/sexual relationship "on the side". That way, you get the best of both worlds.

 

That having 'the best of both worlds' involves deceit, dishonesty, and causing pain or potential pain to two people (the affair who waits for the husband who never gets a divorce and the wife who trusts the husband) makes this a distasteful situation. Apparently, as long as a man gets to fulfill his own selfish needs, albeit at the cost of others' feelings, people should be happy for him, according to our poster.

 

See, Bark, some of us think that it is incumbent upon people to do no harm to others, even if it means sacrificing their own desires to accomplish that. Some of us think that the sort of selfishness exhibited in remarks such as yours is a highly undesirable quality in humans.

[bark]

You misinterpreted my post. I was criticizing married men for wanting "the best of both worlds."

 

I was warning the poster away from the married guy. I did not intend to be, and was not, selfish in my comments.

 

Context is everything and you dislike the messenger so much you misread the message, which is unlike you.

 

Guess what, moimeme, sometimes bad people can give good advice.

 

And I believe my advice was sound , here.

 

If anything, your misreading simply confirmed my comment about dominant LS opinions.

 

So criticize me all you want for being a lousy husband and human being. I just ask that your low opinion of me not lead to flawed and fundamental misinterpretations of my posts.

 

Thanks.

[moimeme]

Bark

 

I don't know you from a hole in the ground. I can't possibly like or dislike you not knowing you at all. I've liked some of the things you've said but not this. I criticize ideas, not their bearers. A lot of people seem unable to distinguish the two.

 

I was criticizing married men for wanting "the best of both worlds."

 

Well, given that these are YOUR words, I scarcely think I misinterpreted what you said. You say you are in 'that comfort zone' and then described the comfort zone:

 

but I am in that comfort zone another poster described. Many guys like to have the postcard perfect, "American Dream" family and an intensely romantic/sexual relationship "on the side". That way, you get the best of both worlds.

 

If you did not mean to say that 'getting the best of both worlds' is the result of you being in your 'comfort zone', then you should not have juxtaposed the two concepts in the same paragraph. I hear absolutely no criticism in those few lines.

[EnigmaXOXO]

Bark,

 

I absolutely admire that you would post such a sincere and honest individual male perspective on this subject. We often here from women having affairs, but males seem more tight-lipped about the topic.

 

I hope you don't mind my curiosity... I am simply seeking to learn the dynamics behind this way of thinking since it is so drastically different from my own. And I have a feeling you have the ability to answer it honestly in spite of our many opposing opinions.

 

I was wondering, as someone who has had an affair and found it to be a positive experience, how do you think you would feel or react if you discovered your wife had or was having an affair of her own? Would you rationalize it the same as you have done for yourself, or would you feel hurt by what most of us consider a painful betrayal of loyalty and trust?

[bark]

Enigma (by the way, I like that name) , I did not say that my affair, on the whole, was a "positive" experience. Like any lengthy complex experience, there was both good and bad. But people do not like to admit that an affair brought them pleasure, excitement and intimacy despite the betrayal, violation and falsity. They appear selfish, callow and cruel to others. We all want to look our moral best--even when posting anonymously. Hence, moimeme's post stung. But I'll live.

 

And I'm not rationalizing my Affair. My Affair was what it was. I take responsibility for it. What I won't do is simplify, minimize or distort the experience to satisfy the needs of people expecting some mea culpa. I didn't kill anyone. I didn't injure anyone. Throughout my Affair I remained the primary caregiver and co-provider for my kids. I didn't upset the moral order of the universe. (Although some people believe I have.)

 

I don't want forgiveness, understanding or love. All I would like to see is some perspective and some adult appreciation for the extraordinary complexity of human emotions, desires and linkages. Life is messy--despite our best intentions. It's so easy to morally grandstand on a keyboard.

 

As for my wife, during my Affair, and even afterwords, she has been emotionally involved with another woman. They love each other's company and spend many hours together. I would like to think that I would understand and be accepting of an affair. It would be hypocritical to be otherwise.

 

There you have it. I hurt my wife, for which I feel responsible, yet I admit that the Affair was intensely pleasurable. While some might conclude I'm sociopathic, because I'm able to hold two opposed emotions inside, I'm not. I'm just a regular guy--and that should be the greatest concern for those who believe that adulterers lack any moral compass. I won't don that Scarlet Letter.

 

As for you, moimeme, we can dispute from now until the cows come home what I meant. My position stands: I was recommending that rainbow not have a relationship with the married man because he probably would string her along. Plus, she needed some time to herself before marrying.

 

I respect your posts, moimeme, but we really differ on this issue. And I continue to believe you were attacking me, not the post.

 

 

I hope I answered your questions. And thanks, Enigma,for not jumping on my head.

[kleintri]

This is quite a surprise to myself responding to this. I've recently come across this web page and I'd like to share my story:

 

I'm a mother of three adults and one teenager still at home. Four years ago I became intimate with a married man. It was a slow process before we became intimate. Yes, I knew from the beginning he was married. Little did I know that we would still be together after four years. I don't have any expectations of a tomorrow, but they continue coming. It seems to work. It could be that at this point in my life I'm having my cake and eating it too. Who knows? I just know that we love each other in the most unexplainable way (no it's not just about sex). I'm not here to find a friend or a foe due to my decision in MY life. The question is always does it work? Or will it ever work (indefinitely)? I've been divorced sixteen years and have raised a fine family. I would never have imagined that I would be together with a married man. However, here I am and happy with the arrangement. This married man has been married for 30 years and is a good man from the old school. We share time together on a daily basis (no, we don't work together). We both make concessions to make this relationship work. But show me a married couple that doesn't. I'm not quite sure why I'm sharing this with whoever will read it, but I do know that it works for me today, that's not to say that tomorrow it will all change. All I know is that I have the choice of my own destiny.

 

Tomorrow is not a sure thing and today I love and am loved!

[EnigmaXOXO]

Bark,

 

LOL...would not have jumped on your head unless you indicated that you somehow adhered to the ol' male "double-standard." If that had been the case, the more "professional" minions here would have had to forcibly yank me down from my narrow-minded "moral" soapbox.

 

I too, would have been promptly scolded... and like you, survived my own ayas-woopin' long enough to share my unwelcomed opinions yet another day.

 

My hat goes off to ya...

[moimeme]

sigh. dup.

[moimeme]

And I continue to believe you were attacking me, not the post.

 

Fascinating. I will never, ever get that. How can I possibly attack you? There is nothing to attack but a bunch of words on a page. However, experience has taught me that people will believe what they will, and damn the facts. If it pleases you to believe that I am attacking you personally, so be it.

[bark]

"There is nothing to attack but a bunch of words on a page."

 

Do you really believe that in this forum, with these confessional, intensely personal issues? If only life (or posting) was so simple.

 

I think you're great at what you do, moimeme. And I'll continue to read, respect and mostly agree with your posts.

 

Until we meet again.

[moimeme]

Do you really believe that in this forum, with these confessional, intensely personal issues

 

Absolutely. Humans are incredibly complex creatures and you cannot learn everything about them from some posts on a forum. I imagine if you were to read all of Tony's eleven thousand posts, you might have some measure of the man, but it takes months and months of personal contact to know any human being and that can't possibly be replicated by reading a couple dozen posts on a forum.

 

I said before that I've liked a number of your posts but not necessarily some of your views on this issue. Unless your views on this issue constitute the whole of your personality and personhood, you should not be offended that I dislike them. This is why I never understand people who think one poster disagreeing with their posts means they are being 'attacked'. How can one invest one's entire self in a single post?

 

Oh, dear. I feel a new thread being hived off any minute now.

 

And I'll continue to read, respect and mostly agree with your posts

 

Ditto. And I'll not even feel attacked should you disagree with me.

[lostforwords]

Bark i love the fact that you have a very honest opinion of the "otherside of the fence" i understood your post, as well as your "justifying yourself" posts LOL.... i agree with you bark.... it seems on a few occassions i have come on here and have seen the actual issue or question was either blown way into another dimension or peoples responses were closely analyzed bit by bit and still the person analyzing failed to help the poster.... or offer any sort of resolution, advice or understanding the author because they were too busy picking another persons response apart....

 

now, being in the posters shoes on 1 occassion myself.... id have to say that the married man is definately misleading her..... that will ultimately end up in heartbreak..... i say dump the guy before it gets worse....

[bark]

I hear you,moimeme, but when you write:

 

'the sort of selfishness exhibited in remarks such as yours is a highly undesirable quality in humans"

 

that does have a harsh, personal sound. Yes, you reference my "remarks" but based on my remarks you accuse me of "selfishness," which you further define as "a highly undesirable trait in humans."

 

That's pretty strong, intense personal language. "Remarks" aren't selfish, people are. "Remarks" don't possess "a highly undesirable trait in humans," people do.

 

What I've learned is that when my posts fall outside the moral mainstream I should expect some shots. So I'll develop thicker skin. That's fine.

 

Later.

[bark]

lostforwords, you're so right. All I was trying to do was steer rainbow away from the married guy--I think the relationship is a nonstarter.

 

In retrospect, I shouldn't't have mentioned my past "other man" status. But I was trying to further validate my advice that she stay away from him. That was my point. I wasn't making an ad for adultery.

 

What I've learned is that there are "hot button" issues in these forums and adultery is one of them.

 

Oh well, live and learn.

 

Thanks for your kind words.

[lostforwords]

I got yer back homey...... LOL

 

Im usually one of those people that if you have been in the same boat.... of course your gonna give your perspective on it cuz youve been there (not always but usually).... especially when you know it may be detramental to someone.... cuz youve lived the experience.... and your only sharing your outcome of what may happen or what the person could expect...... see dude.... im down wit it...... lmao!!!

[moimeme]

that does have a harsh, personal sound. Yes, you reference my "remarks" but based on my remarks you accuse me of "selfishness," which you further define as "a highly undesirable trait in humans."

 

We should probably be doing this in PM, but you just said that it (the opinion that I was criticizing) was NOT your opinion and that you were yourself criticizing that very attitude AND the people that hold it!

 

And I quote again:

 

I was criticizing married men for wanting "the best of both worlds."

 

Mods, when you hive this off, you could call it 'did she or didn't she'

 

 

So I criticize an attitude, which you then say is not yours and that you disagree with, but you take the criticism personally even though you say it isn't the attitude you hold? Have I got that straight?

[lostforwords]

oh boy..... lets stick to the posters problem... this is getting out of hand as usual.... LOL the point being she should NOT continue with the affair...... enough poking and prodding moimeme..... most times i agree with you... but now its dragging into a vendetta with you ......

[bark]

I give up. I defer to your seniority.

 

And how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?

 

Let's focus on those posters with real problems.

 

Not to suggest that our erudite sparring hasn't been as much fun as a barrel of monkeys.

[moimeme]

Actually, lost, I'm trying hard to assuage Bark's feelings. It's not a vendetta at all. We have a mux-ip and these things ought not fester.

 

I agree with the sentiment - a relationship with a married man is a dead end. I suppose there might be some people who will say she should continue, but I expect most of the varieties of advice on this matter have been exhausted. However, we will see. Even though poster said she had no questions, she will continue to get answers, no doubt

[moimeme]

Not to suggest that our erudite sparring hasn't been as much fun as a barrel of monkeys.

 

Yes, but could a barrel of monkeys truly be considered fun?

[bark]

Good point: No way.

 

I wonder how that expression began?

 

Who could have thought a barrel of monkies was fun? It's cruelty to animals!