Is it me or are women just extremely shallow?

[carhill]

IME, it's whoever has had more sunshine blown up their ass

[burning 4 revenge]

IME, it's whoever has had more sunshine blown up their ass

Is this an esoteric psychedelic drug reference

[carhill]

Perhaps; that is an interesting thought. However, for me, it resides within my "Your Shyte don't Stink" theory of self-image.

[Isolde]

I empathize here but I can share a really cool thing with you. The day will come when that won't matter to you. It's actually a really freeing feeling. Amazingly freeing. I hope it comes sooner for you than it did for me. When it did, it was like I had discovered something that I instinctively knew was there all along. I was glad I had found it but mad at myself for not trusting my instincts earlier.

 

Anyway, it'll all work out

 

You're amazing, carhill.

[carhill]

Yeah, thanks for the sunshine and where would you like to go? I just discovered United is having an award ticket sale. 20% off systemwide. I can fly to Australia for 64,000 miles or across the US for 20,000, as examples.

 

I guess I need to hit the road and find me some shallow women. Life is an adventure

[BOLTON33]

How do you know the women he's approaching aren't objectively attractive? Perhaps he's chasing women who are more attractive than he is, while friendzoning all mere mortal women.[/Quote]

 

I don't friend zone anyone #1, I make it clear to everyone what my intentions are with them and never lead anyone on (unlike women).

 

Are the women I go after ugly? No way. They all are around 6, 7, the occasional 8. Sometimes my friends would say "come on man calm down she's not that great", or "she's pretty average" at my choice in women.

 

The only women who are interested in me tend me to be really overweight and it's just not my thing, I am lean with a decent body. I am not overweight so why should I have to budge on this? You can shoot back and say "well being short makes you just as unattractive", but the problem is short women want to date me even less than the girls who are around my height.

 

Maybe the OP can link a pic of himself and these objectively unattractive women, so we can better gauge how realistic he's being, himself.[/Quote]

 

I don't think I'm particularly ugly. I don't have any pictures on my computer (no WEBCAM) but i do have one poor quality i took with my cellphone. I think I look fairly normal http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/2817/41883874.jpg

 

One girl I liked actually even LOOKED like me everyone remarked she looked like my sister LOL. Yet, no dice.

 

The worst part is, is that some of these girls actually succeed in finding mates much better than them. Men are so awkward and desperate this day and age that they are forced to date below their league, and this hurts the people in my boat dearly.

 

 

Men tend to overinflate their own attractiveness, where women tend to downplay it. This is pretty normal. [/Quote]

 

Quite the opposite is true. Women all have delusions of grandeur and all think they deserve to have a physically perfect man. WHy do you think there are so many single women, it's because they reject everyone who doesnt fit their "type" which is always a physical checklist few can fill.

[Chrome Barracuda]

Mayn this thread is hilarious!!!!

 

I'm surprised I didnt say anything on it sooner...

 

I think it depends on generation and maturity too.

 

Like this generation it's all about me. independant, defiant, self serving, impatient, greedy and just plain vile and near sighted. It's becoming apparent that both sexes negative traits are amplified in this time than any other.

 

But that's just my opinion I could be wrong.

[carhill]

independant, defiant, self serving, impatient, greedy and just plain vile and near sighted

 

Hey, my generation raised them. I agree 100% and have to catch myself from hugging those sparse but shining examples of exception that I encounter in my wanderings. Procreation can be an ironic master

[butcher's hook]

I think you are right Bolton especially in your age group women are extremely superficial!!

 

I'm trying to make him understand that working behind a cash register is not the sort of thing that young women find attractive in general terms. He's a guy, I don't need to sugar coat things for him he'll get it and he'll fix it. Stop mothering him.

 

Oh knock it off, the other guy who is 6 feet tall and really good looking works just beside him on the other cashier and yet he gets all the chicks, so clearly the jobs is irrelevant.

 

What he is saying is that women will go for the shallow option and always go for the super hot guy if they have a choice. He's right unfortunately great job or no great job.

 

 

Women on the other hand always feel they deserve what they don't even bring to the table. Fat girls want to date the lean guys, short girls only want 6'2 and taller, average looking girls only want very handsome, lower middle class girls only want the wall street guy, and etc etc. Western society has taught women from early on that they are all princesses and all deserve "Right One" which is always a dark haired, very tall, very good looking guy firefighter with a goldman sachs trust to his name.

 

All I ask is for women who look like me, who have my personality, who are generally perfect matches for me....to date me. Is this so crazy? People say "lower your standards" when I say I don't find obese and very ugly women attractive and generally prefer to date my own race, yet why is it so ridiculous for me to want to date someone who brings exactly what I bring to the table?????

 

 

You know what, you are totally right in a lot of what you say. I feel your frustration!

 

I am a woman and even I can see that more average looking people have a harder time. I have friends less attractive than me who have much higher standards than me when it comes to looks. Used to work with an overweight chick who only went after really buff guys. I think it stems from insecurity if they are seen with really good looking guys then they feel by proxy it makes them appear to be better looking.

[burning 4 revenge]

Sometimes I can be superficial...yes, even me.....I just went out and did silly, superficial things,,,I dont feel any better though.....maybe Ill go to bed soon

[burning 4 revenge]

When you were a kid you never dreamed it was all so empty

[Taramere]

I don't think I'm particularly ugly. I don't have any pictures on my computer (no WEBCAM) but i do have one poor quality i took with my cellphone. I think I look fairly normal

 

I had a look at the photograph. You're fine, but the overall character coming out very strongly in your facial expression is precisely what I would have expected after reading this thread. You look a little bit pouty... as though you feel sorry for yourself, and I think you're going to have to undergo a big change in attitude if you want to stop having that demeanour about you. You've got the kind of face that could carry that devilish/slightly manic humour some guys do so well....but you would need to focus on genuinely finding life funny rather than endlessly depressing, otherwise it would seem fake.

 

Another tip. Contrary to what you believe, boys can be every bit as shallow as girls. Many is the time, in my younger days, that I'd find myself getting completely ignored by guys who were chatting up my prettier friends. I used to feel terribly sorry for myself too. It's human nature, but one day I figured that I was standing around waiting for people to take an interest in me.....when really, I would be better served taking an active interest in other people. Using my wallflower status to start observing and learning about human nature. I'm pretty perceptive about people anyway, and can pick up a lot about them just by watching. Try it. Because you're embroiled in your own little project, you'll automatically be more relaxed and poised - and you'll probably find that when you reach that state people are anxious to start pulling you into the conversation.

 

Why? Probably because even very superficially confident people can get a bit uncomfortable when they know that they're under observation..and also because, people are self absorbed. If they get a sense that they're being assessed, provided you have a warm, interested demeanour about you while you're watching - as opposed to the negative or superior stance people sometimes adopt while they're in that mode, the chances are that people will want to know what you're thinking about them. They'll want to know if you "get" them.

 

Don't underestimate the pull of that. People who essentially have sod all wrong with them waste hundreds of pounds on totally mediocre fortune tellers, therapists, life coaches etc because they want to feel understood by another human being. If you can stand in a bar and make people feel "got", they'll respond big time to you. There's an element of that in amongst all the PUA stuff. What they do is similar to what the fortune teller who uses barnum statements.

 

Those things often do work on people who you'd expect to be far too intelligent to fall for them. The common denominator of those people who fall for barnum statements is probably that they're pretty self absorbed and not sufficiently interested in other people to realise how widely applicable these personal assessments generally are. Similar thing with astrology and horoscopes.

 

I'm not a big fan of PUA stuff either. Particularly not as I'm a woman. I would, however, suggest you read The Game by Neil Strauss. He's a short, geeky guy who had no success with women, who managed to turn his life around and develop a rep for being some kind of PUA guru. If you read your book, you'll understand that his real secret is that he is genuinely interested in and therefore extremely perceptive about other people.

 

I've met very few men who are genuinely perceptive about others in that way. Most will just use superficial, generally applicable "barnum statements" in an attempt to bond with you or show that they get you. I think if you use your wallflower status to sharpen up your observation skills and start to seriously learn about human nature (rather than simmering in resentment and self pity about not getting enough attention) you won't stay a wallflower for much longer.

[burning 4 revenge]

Finding life funny and finding life endlessly depressing is the exact same thing

[Trialbyfire]

The worst part is, is that some of these girls actually succeed in finding mates much better than them. Men are so awkward and desperate this day and age that they are forced to date below their league, and this hurts the people in my boat dearly.

Straight up, why do you suppose that some men and women are able to succeed in finding mates and others aren't, even though, as you've stated, they're in the same "leagues" or the other person is in a higher "league"? You've actually answered this question with the above bolded phrase. Also, in rating or ranking everyone in "leagues", that does nothing for your cause, since the assessment is purely superficial.

 

Not every man is socially awkward, thus desperate. So...since your external look is okay based on what little I saw in the fuzzy linked pic, how do you improve your social awkwardness?

Quite the opposite is true. Women all have delusions of grandeur and all think they deserve to have a physically perfect man. WHy do you think there are so many single women, it's because they reject everyone who doesnt fit their "type" which is always a physical checklist few can fill.

Hahahahaha...no offense but this tells me you don't have many female friends or have much exposure to women. As a gender, we're incredibly relentless with ourselves and others, when it comes to finding fault with our looks!! It's not blatantly seen by men who aren't close since not too many people blurt out their physical insecurities to others. For example, do you say to women, "Man, I have the biggest chip on my shoulders since I'm so short and not as good-looking as my friend".

 

You're not really that short, FYI.

[BOLTON33]

I think you are right Bolton especially in your age group women are extremely superficial!!

 

 

 

Oh knock it off, the other guy who is 6 feet tall and really good looking works just beside him on the other cashier and yet he gets all the chicks, so clearly the jobs is irrelevant.

 

What he is saying is that women will go for the shallow option and always go for the super hot guy if they have a choice. He's right unfortunately great job or no great job.

 

 

 

 

You know what, you are totally right in a lot of what you say. I feel your frustration!

 

I am a woman and even I can see that more average looking people have a harder time. I have friends less attractive than me who have much higher standards than me when it comes to looks. Used to work with an overweight chick who only went after really buff guys. I think it stems from insecurity if they are seen with really good looking guys then they feel by proxy it makes them appear to be better looking.

 

 

Yeah this is the most sensible thing. Guys who think that women will find you more attractive than the physically good looking guy for your "Confidence" need to think of it in reverse. Would a beautiful woman with low self-esteem lack dates and male attention? You can try to pick things out about me and blame me for these troubles, but in reality it's a sociological problem about the stupid mentality of people in general.

 

 

Straight up, why do you suppose that some men and women are able to succeed in finding mates and others aren't, even though, as you've stated, they're in the same "leagues" or the other person is in a higher "league"? You've actually answered this question with the above bolded phrase. Also, in rating or ranking everyone in "leagues", that does nothing for your cause, since the assessment is purely superficial.[/Quote]

 

Why is it superficial when I Talk about leagues, but just a preference when women talk about "types"? I have a logical and healthy mentality, I want to date women physically, mentally, and spiritually compatible with me. But they don't. And since in our society women hold all the cards, they can pick from a larger group of men better than them in every way.

 

It's funny when I went to Bulgaria and a few other poorer countries, my "pouty looks" didn't matter at all. Without saying a single word I was sought after by all the girls in town. Is it because of my amazing charisma? No, it's because I was from USA and they assumed I was loaded (all =the interest ended when I stopped giving the gold diggers attention and they realized I am actually not rich in any way).

 

 

I don't know, I think what I need is a positive experience with a woman under 40. Unfortunately, I have yet to find a single girl who isn't a complete moron or completely 1 dimensional in her interests, hobbies etc. So far my experience has taught me that perhaps women are just intellectually and emotionally less able than men, as a whole.

[Taramere]

It's funny when I went to Bulgaria and a few other poorer countries, my "pouty looks" didn't matter at all.

 

Come on, don't take the "pouty" comment to heart. I thought you and I had become friends over the course of this thread. Good friends. Yet other than taking umbrage about the kindly meant "pouty" comment, you haven't addressed any of the comments I made in the very carefully thought out post I put together in an effort to help you.

 

Is it cause I is not pretty enough?

[Trialbyfire]

Bolton, keep up the condescension and victim mentality and you're not going to score with women. We can smell a victim and stay away.

[BOLTON33]

I had a look at the photograph. You're fine, but the overall character coming out very strongly in your facial expression is precisely what I would have expected after reading this thread. You look a little bit pouty... as though you feel sorry for yourself, and I think you're going to have to undergo a big change in attitude if you want to stop having that demeanour about you. You've got the kind of face that could carry that devilish/slightly manic humour some guys do so well....but you would need to focus on genuinely finding life funny rather than endlessly depressing, otherwise it would seem fake.[/Quote]

 

I do generally act this way. I have a very cynical and dark sense of humor and can make many laugh. Most women if they get to know me, actually find this to be rather offensive instead of funny like my male friends do. I don't walk around with my head down and whining all the time, quite the opposite. My 6 feet tall good looking friend actually does whine all the time about how hard his life and has horrible posture, but women don't seem to notice it with him.

 

 

Another tip. Contrary to what you believe, boys can be every bit as shallow as girls. Many is the time, in my younger days, that I'd find myself getting completely ignored by guys who were chatting up my prettier friends. I used to feel terribly sorry for myself too. It's human nature, but one day I figured that I was standing around waiting for people to take an interest in me.....when really, I would be better served taking an active interest in other people. Using my wallflower status to start observing and learning about human nature. I'm pretty perceptive about people anyway, and can pick up a lot about them just by watching. Try it. Because you're embroiled in your own little project, you'll automatically be more relaxed and poised - and you'll probably find that when you reach that state people are anxious to start pulling you into the conversation. [/Quote]

 

I generally do this with my own gender. Like at my job if I see a new guy I will be nice to him and try to be his friend because I know how tough it is to be in a new social environment with many young people. But it's very different with women , they are very closed off to me and tell me how "unapproachable" i am despite all my behaviors being to the contrary. Women generally also rarely remember how nice you were to them and are hard to make friends with.

 

Don't underestimate the pull of that. People who essentially have sod all wrong with them waste hundreds of pounds on totally mediocre fortune tellers, therapists, life coaches etc because they want to feel understood by another human being. If you can stand in a bar and make people feel "got", they'll respond big time to you. There's an element of that in amongst all the PUA stuff. What they do is similar to what the fortune teller who uses [COLOR=#990000]barnum statements[/COLOR]. [/Quote]

 

I don't have such a hard time doing this with people of my own gender. But women are generally unresponsive.

Those things often do work on people who you'd expect to be far too intelligent to fall for them. The common denominator of those people who fall for barnum statements is probably that they're pretty self absorbed and not sufficiently interested in other people to realise how widely applicable these personal assessments generally are. Similar thing with astrology and horoscopes.

 

I'm not a big fan of PUA stuff either. Particularly not as I'm a woman. I would, however, suggest you read The Game by Neil Strauss. He's a short, geeky guy who had no success with women, who managed to turn his life around and develop a rep for being some kind of PUA guru. If you read your book, you'll understand that his real secret is that he is genuinely interested in and therefore extremely perceptive about other people. [/Quote]

 

LOL Neil Strauss is a bastard. He is a snake oil salesmen who lies for a living. Yes he is short ugly and geeky, but he is also very powerful and rich. He used to be a top writer for Rolling Stone magazine before he discovered PUA, and now with his new scam he is even more rich. If I was a well-known writer hanging out with rockstars all the time with a lotof money, I'd have "Game" too and score every night.

 

Is Donald Trumph a pickup artist? How about every other ugly/old/short/fat but famous/rich guy with a good looking girlfriend? It's not a fair conclusion to come to.

 

I've met very few men who are genuinely perceptive about others in that way. Most will just use superficial, generally applicable "barnum statements" in an attempt to bond with you or show that they get you. I think if you use your wallflower status to sharpen up your observation skills and start to seriously learn about human nature (rather than simmering in resentment and self pity about not getting enough attention) you won't stay a wallflower for much longer. [/Quote]

 

I agree I suppose.

[Taramere]

I do generally act this way. I have a very cynical and dark sense of humor and can make many laugh. Most women if they get to know me, actually find this to be rather offensive instead of funny like my male friends do.

 

Oh. Okay. Sympathies, I suppose. I was in LA at the start of the year, and my attempts to be amusing in company were met with frozen faced looks of horror, followed (decades later) by slow nods. "That's funny."

 

But it's very different with women , they are very closed off to me and tell me how "unapproachable" i am despite all my behaviors being to the contrary. Women generally also rarely remember how nice you were to them and are hard to make friends with.

 

So you've established enough communication with several women to hear that they find you unapproachable. Did you ask them what they mean?

 

LOL Neil Strauss is a bastard. He is a snake oil salesmen who lies for a living. Yes he is short ugly and geeky, but he is also very powerful and rich. He used to be a top writer for Rolling Stone magazine before he discovered PUA, and now with his new scam he is even more rich. If I was a well-known writer hanging out with rockstars all the time with a lotof money, I'd have "Game" too and score every night.

 

Well, you know. Boost up your post count on LS and who knows where it might take you? Woggle gets plenty of female attention on here, despite the fact that he hates most women today every bit as much as he did 4 years ago.

 

Is Donald Trumph a pickup artist? How about every other ugly/old/short/fat but famous/rich guy with a good looking girlfriend? It's not a fair conclusion to come to.

 

Okay. Non famous men. I've met lots of guys who are 5 ft 8" or less who do just fine with women. I think actually the ex I mentioned was more like 5 ft 7" when I think about it. I was the same height as he was when I wore heels. For a while, he was flatsharing with another guy - of whom he was very jealous (because the other guy was more attractive to women). The other guy was about 5 ft 5" if memory serves me right. Admittedly he was a successful in various artsy ways, but women didn't know that about him straight away. He just had the aura about him.

 

You can't keep blaming everything on your height. Particularly when, as others have pointed out, 5 ft 8" is hardly midget territory.

[BOLTON33]

Thanks taramere, you give really good, realistic advice that goes beyond cliches and wishful thinking. I'm actually really surprised you are female you seem really wise. how old are you if you don't mind me asking?

 

Oh. Okay. Sympathies, I suppose. I was in LA at the start of the year, and my attempts to be amusing in company were met with frozen faced looks of horror, followed (decades later) by slow nods. "That's funny." [/Quote]

 

No, that's not the worst. Want to hear the worst? The worst is when the people who act all offended and outraged at your less than PC jokes, turn around and TELL THEM, and get a laugh from it. Another thing I hate is when the very good looking guys think they are funny. At a party a few weeks ago there was one guy who was good looking, tall, broad shouldered, and had a very good looking girlfriend with him. The whole time he was sitting there farting and laughing about it, over and over again, and all the girls thought it was the funniest thing ever when it was actually retarded. So because of that, this retard is going to think that jokes about farting are actually funny after the 4th grade.

 

So you've established enough communication with several women to hear that they find you unapproachable. Did you ask them what they mean? [/Quote]

 

They always keep it rather vague. "You just do". I'm not particularly unapproachable, atleast no more than the average man.

 

Well, you know. Boost up your post count on LS and who knows where it might take you? Woggle gets plenty of female attention on here, despite the fact that he hates most women today every bit as much as he did 4 years ago.[/Quote]

 

Contrary to popular "bitter misogynist nerd" stereotype, the guys who seem to hate women the most are the ones who have the most success and spend the most time with women. Lord Byron for one.

 

 

Okay. Non famous men. I've met lots of guys who are 5 ft 8" or less who do just fine with women. I think actually the ex I mentioned was more like 5 ft 7" when I think about it. I was the same height as he was when I wore heels. For a while, he was flatsharing with another guy - of whom he was very jealous (because the other guy was more attractive to women). The other guy was about 5 ft 5" if memory serves me right. Admittedly he was a successful in various artsy ways, but women didn't know that about him straight away. He just had the aura about him. [/Quote]

 

I have yet to meet a guy that is my height who is so successful with women without being extremely (and I mean steroids induced) muscular or rich. Most guys I know who are successful with women are generally atleast 6 feet, with 1 or 2 who are around 5'10. If you are under 5'10, the pickens get slim, REALLY slim. Maybe you live in a place where women are less superficial than in the big cities .

 

You can't keep blaming everything on your height. Particularly when, as others have pointed out, 5 ft 8" is hardly midget territory. [/Quote]

 

I don't know, I feel most women act like yes indeed 5'8 is midget territory. I am generally atleast 2-3 inches taller than like 75% of women but that isn't enough. Women factor in their "heels" that they wear 1 time a year (IE an excuse not to date guys my height) and when they wear their heels they want you to not just be taller but be 3-4 inches taller than them even when they wear heels .

 

Generally most women I know consider anyone under 6 feet tall to be a midget. Not because the average man is necessarily 6 feet tall, but rather because the only men women actually SEE are 6 ft and up. Every man under 6 feet tall has to be REALLY special to get a decent looking girlfriend.

[carhill]

OP, this sounds cliche but it made for a great 32 year marriage which produced tricycle boy. Dad was 5'7" and built like a gymnast (did that in high school in the 1930's) and mom is 5'6" and was selling mens clothes and modeling women's clothes when they met. He just kept coming back to buy more suits (he was an accountant) until he got her attention. Dad was nerdy looking, like I am (though I'm much bigger) and mom was photogenic enough to make it into the store's print ads and the local newspaper. Do you really think that superficial things had anything to do with how and why they got together? Kept them together until my dad died 32 years later?

 

IMO, if you believe yourself to be a decent and honorable person, go with that. You absolutely will never be able to control how other people perceive you. They have their path and you have yours. So, would you like to own the pharmacy?

[Chubbi]

Hey, let me add my own advice to your question. I'm around your age, 20 next month.

 

If two guys were doing a cash register and one of them was really hot, what would I do? Umm...I honestly would just think in my head- they look great- and keep on trucking. I don't flirt or pick up guys like that, especially not at a store. I probably would use any cash register as quick as I could and hurry out because I would be too afraid of drawing attention to myself. That's really honest.

 

But, if we're talking about the average social butterfly around 20 girl, then yes she will go for your hot friend. I knew it immediately when you described him as "cocky". Girls love cocky/hot/tall guys, no problem. He's bound to pick up a one or two- they would think his work uniform is just a cute topping on a cake. But, I don't think that means girls are more shallow.

 

I noticed you talk about girls in general, but when you talk about men, you usually refer to yourself- a more selective view point. You said, girls will go for the attractive guy. But when you made the contrast, you said, I would go for the pretty, nice girl than the model one. Then, you concluded that girls were more shallow than men, but you only used yourself as an example. But, would all men do that? Would all men be like you and go for the average one? I've noticed people gravitate towards hot people no matter what gender.

 

Anyway, haven't you heard that ugly men get beautiful women? Have you ever seen a movie where the ugly girl got a beautiful man without like doing a huge make-over? A make-over meaning new wardrobe and taking off the glasses, so on. I haven't. Ugly men who get beautiful women never do a huge make-over- they beat up people, or win in something but they don't change the way the look. Think Transformers or any other movie.

 

Women aren't more shallow- they are less afraid of rejection! Therefore, they will flirt with whoever they are attracted to the most because they aren't afraid. And why should they be afraid? If they know one thing, it's that a man would have to be a pretty pure priest if he will turn down at least having sex with them. So, they know they have the upper hand when they flirt because at least a guy would be interested enough to f- them regardless of what they look like. Men, other the other hand, could get turned down sooner because women wouldn't have sex with them.

 

I've noticed men date a wide-range of women, but is it really because they are not superficial? I thought it was because men have sexual fantasies about every type of woman and that was why they flirt with anything that walks. "I want the teacher type/the librarian/ the fat girl/ the goth girl/ the red-head/ the brunette/ the Asian/the black girl" and on and on. You can look at porn and know that every type of women is represented in it. Women, on the other hand, aren't dating every type of man because we generally don't want every guy. We want our promised monogamous, handsome type etc. Unless we are indulging in sexual fantasies, and even then we have our limits, women are going for the long-term looks and attraction.

 

That's what I mean when I say the average looking girl probably will get more men flirting with her than the average looking boy when it comes to women. The girl, you see, has to rift through all the men who just wants to sleep with her. The boy won't get hit on because women aren't sex crazed and also are trained to believe sex=negative for self-esteem of women (unless the guy is quite beautiful). I think it's totally unfair that you say that makes men less shallow- it does not! The criteria for women are different, not higher. So, it really isn't that big of difference.

 

That's generally speaking. Now specifically for you- I don't really know why you aren't getting girls. At my college (do you go to school?) just about any body can get any body but that's because those hormones are ranging and kids are so open-minded/rebellious they wouldn't turn anything down ever lol. Living on campus, you get used to seeing a hot guy and then his friend becomes attractive. But just meeting them randomly at a store, the hot guy will get your attention-no doubt. I don't see how there's anything wrong with that.

 

Also, I think the thing about you being short is ridiculous. Who's measuring you? Unless you want a supermodel and are measuring your standards like that, I have no idea why your height would matter to women who average 5'4 in this country, unless our kids have suddenly gotten 2 in' taller and increased the national average. I never thought tall men were THAT much more attractive than a guy at 5'7. That's wierd and a new concept to me. unless you are in a place where everyone looks alike- white, dark hair, tall, suburbs- and therefore, people are making their standards more selective than normal??

[BOLTON33]

OP, this sounds cliche but it made for a great 32 year marriage which produced tricycle boy. Dad was 5'7" and built like a gymnast (did that in high school in the 1930's) and mom is 5'6" and was selling mens clothes and modeling women's clothes when they met. He just kept coming back to buy more suits (he was an accountant) until he got her attention. Dad was nerdy looking, like I am (though I'm much bigger) and mom was photogenic enough to make it into the store's print ads and the local newspaper. Do you really think that superficial things had anything to do with how and why they got together? Kept them together until my dad died 32 years later?

 

IMO, if you believe yourself to be a decent and honorable person, go with that. You absolutely will never be able to control how other people perceive you. They have their path and you have yours. So, would you like to own the pharmacy?

 

 

I think that comparing a marriage from the 1940's/50's to a marriage today is absolutely ridiculous man. I mean, don't get me wrong, if it was up to me I would time travel back to those times, but it's just not possible.

 

While perhaps back then it wasn't superficial things that kept them together, today it absolutely is. Marriages today are about economic convenience, and women are the ones who have all the power on who gets married and who doesn't.

 

And no, I have no intent on owning the pharmacy. Right now I'm just going with the flow i have no real goals and am probably many people's definition of a loser since i don't care all that much about money. I am going to school but don't really know what to do.

 

 

CHUBBI

 

But, if we're talking about the average social butterfly around 20 girl, then yes she will go for your hot friend. I knew it immediately when you described him as "cocky". Girls love cocky/hot/tall guys, no problem. He's bound to pick up a one or two- they would think his work uniform is just a cute topping on a cake. But, I don't think that means girls are more shallow. [/Quote]

 

My friend is mostly just tall really, and pretty handsome i suppose. He doesn't pick up that much because he never responds (Has a girlfriend) but it really pisses me off what you're saying about his uniform. On me, most women would see "ew retail loser, etc" but on him, he could be wearing a dildo on his head and women will think it's cute.

 

I don't get it. For me, everything I do is wrong no matter what it is or how decent I try to be. For people like him, everything he does whether it's whining, negativity, or even ripping a really loud one, is GOLDEN.

 

I noticed you talk about girls in general, but when you talk about men, you usually refer to yourself- a more selective view point. You said, girls will go for the attractive guy. But when you made the contrast, you said, I would go for the pretty, nice girl than the model one. Then, you concluded that girls were more shallow than men, but you only used yourself as an example. But, would all men do that? Would all men be like you and go for the average one? I've noticed people gravitate towards hot people no matter what gender.

[/Quote]

 

I have yet to meet a single girl who has ever given me her sole attention when he is present. EVER. IN MY WHOLE LIFE. That is why I talk about women in generalizations, because they all act very similar.

 

However, I have seen men go after the alright looking girl even in the presence of the "model", many times actually, I've done it myself.

 

I do agree people of all genders gravitate to the very beautiful among us. It's not just women who do not acknowledge me when my friend is around, it's all people. But when he's gone and my more homely coworker is there, I am the one they all gravitate to. And when an even homelier and shorter person, etc etc.

 

Personally, it really makes me hate people. I am starting to become a misanthrope, mostly about american society which is retarded. It's human nature to be attracted to "hot people" but many times people take it to the next level, like today my coworker helped out a girl in a very considerate way while I barely helped, and she only thanked me. When my much better looking friend is involved, he is only considered, etc etc.

 

I am not any better than anyone but if someone does something nice for me i am grateful to them. Not just that, but I do not automatically act all friendly and nice to someone just because they are "HOT".

 

Anyway, haven't you heard that ugly men get beautiful women? Have you ever seen a movie where the ugly girl got a beautiful man without like doing a huge make-over? A make-over meaning new wardrobe and taking off the glasses, so on. I haven't. Ugly men who get beautiful women never do a huge make-over- they beat up people, or win in something but they don't change the way the look. Think Transformers or any other movie.

[/Quote]

 

Yes, Transformers also has flying robots from outer space. IT doesn't reflect real life.

 

I've personally rarely see it, and there's usually a rational explanation for it (more than just "he has a great personality", IE he has a drug connection, is rich, is famous, is extremely muscular, etc). I've personally never had a girl who i found even remotely attractive, especially not "beautiful", ever make me feel like I was desirable or sexually attractive to her.

 

Most women I see are dating men the same or more attractive than them. PERIOD. Maybe in movies it's different, but that is because many movies like transformers are targetted towards a dorky male (admittedly, retarded male) audience where male fantasies can come true (like megan fox actually finding an average looking nerd attractive).

 

I've noticed men date a wide-range of women, but is it really because they are not superficial? I thought it was because men have sexual fantasies about every type of woman and that was why they flirt with anything that walks. "I want the teacher type/the librarian/ the fat girl/ the goth girl/ the red-head/ the brunette/ the Asian/the black girl" and on and on. You can look at porn and know that every type of women is represented in it. Women, on the other hand, aren't dating every type of man because we generally don't want every guy. We want our promised monogamous, handsome type etc. Unless we are indulging in sexual fantasies, and even then we have our limits, women are going for the long-term looks and attraction.[/Quote]

 

You make a good point here. But guess what? I'd rather be wanted just for my body or for a fetish than not be wanted by anyone at all, like my situation is right now.

 

I think it's really frustrating that women of all the kinds can find a guy to want them, yet for men it's the reverse. It probably has to do with the fact that we live in a matriarchal society, I bet in the muslim countries it's not this hard to find a girl to be with you. Good luck getting the 6'3 handsome guy to be monogamous considering every single woman is throwing themselves at them.

 

That's what I mean when I say the average looking girl probably will get more men flirting with her than the average looking boy when it comes to women. The girl, you see, has to rift through all the men who just wants to sleep with her. The boy won't get hit on because women aren't sex crazed and also are trained to believe sex=negative for self-esteem of women (unless the guy is quite beautiful). I think it's totally unfair that you say that makes men less shallow- it does not! The criteria for women are different, not higher. So, it really isn't that big of difference.[/Quote]

 

I disagree, women ARE sex crazed, they just will never be sex crazed about a guy whose under 6 feet tall or is a powerful dictator or something. You women actlike you don't like sex, when the fact is, you just don't like sex with guys who are not your idea of perfect. When you find the physically and materially perfect guy, you will sleep with him whether you are in a relationship or not, whether he is married or not, etc.

 

It does make men less shallow. All a woman has to do to be attractive is ...NOT BE FAT and be AVERAGE LOOKING. But a guy like me, who is decent looking , with a good personality, intelligent, adventerous etc has a hard time finding an average looking girl to show interest in me or even acknowledge my existence.

 

That's generally speaking. Now specifically for you- I don't really know why you aren't getting girls. At my college (do you go to school?) just about any body can get any body but that's because those hormones are ranging and kids are so open-minded/rebellious they wouldn't turn anything down ever lol. Living on campus, you get used to seeing a hot guy and then his friend becomes attractive. But just meeting them randomly at a store, the hot guy will get your attention-no doubt. I don't see how there's anything wrong with that. [/Quote]

 

I go to community college and the women there are 0% interested in socializing with anyone, especially me.

 

I do see something wrong with that because it's not REALISTIC. I am only saying women are really unrealistic. Why doesn't a woman who is average looking get off her high horse and show interest in her EQUAL rather than her better? Does she actually think she is the only one who thinks the "hot guy" is hot? LOL.

 

To be honest this is also an ego thing. I feel rather insulted that a girl who is equal to me in desirability actually thinks im not good enough for her.

 

Also, I think the thing about you being short is ridiculous. Who's measuring you? Unless you want a supermodel and are measuring your standards like that, I have no idea why your height would matter to women who average 5'4 in this country, unless our kids have suddenly gotten 2 in' taller and increased the national average. I never thought tall men were THAT much more attractive than a guy at 5'7. That's wierd and a new concept to me. unless you are in a place where everyone looks alike- white, dark hair, tall, suburbs- and therefore, people are making their standards more selective than normal?? [/Quote]

 

My height does absolutely matter, and women have made it clear to me with their words and their body language. Maybe you don't think tall men are that much more attractive , but trust me, 99% of your fellow women CERTAINLY think so.

 

And no I am not in a place where everyone looks alike. But let me tell you what, the more features you have that fit under that the more women will like you. I am white, dark haired, so I got 2 under my belt, but apparently even this isn't good enough.

 

I am so frustated and desperate for female company that I will soon be hiring an escort service to be with me. I'm tired of this crap and on my way to become really bitter about women. Why hasn't this happened before? Because I've been pushing my feelings down and letting them fester, always saying " well there's got to be some who are different in the world" but no, as I go through life my experiences with the opposite sex just get worse and worse rather than better. All my life I've been told that there's "SOMEONE FOR EVERYONE" but my experience has taught me that there is everyone for a tiny elite group of people. I guess I should be grateful that this isn't a unsolvable serious issue, as it is something I can solve with 150 dollars an hour.

 

screw this.

[Taramere]

Thanks taramere, you give really good, realistic advice that goes beyond cliches and wishful thinking. I'm actually really surprised you are female you seem really wise. how old are you if you don't mind me asking?

 

A little too old for you, I'm afraid.

 

Another thing I hate is when the very good looking guys think they are funny. At a party a few weeks ago there was one guy who was good looking, tall, broad shouldered, and had a very good looking girlfriend with him. The whole time he was sitting there farting and laughing about it, over and over again, and all the girls thought it was the funniest thing ever when it was actually retarded. So because of that, this retard is going to think that jokes about farting are actually funny after the 4th grade.

 

It's that thing where if everyone else laughs in a social situation, you feel obliged to laugh along - even if it isn't funny. What you should probably be doing next time a self-appointed alpha is making a display of himself like that (and everyone's laughing) is take a quick look around the women, figure out which one is very clearly struggling to pretend it's funny, make eye contact with her and smirk slightly so that it's clear you're laughing at the guy rather than with him. You have to seek out women who have a bit of a subversive streak and don't really want to follow the crowd. I have to admit from the little I've seen of the US, I can imagine there's a bit of a shortage of them - but I'm sure they do exist.

 

Contrary to popular "bitter misogynist nerd" stereotype, the guys who seem to hate women the most are the ones who have the most success and spend the most time with women. Lord Byron for one.

 

Yeah, but that was a while ago. They thought he was mad, bad and dangerous to know. Nowadays they'd probably think he was a pretentious, poetry writing pansy who was trying a bit too hard to do the bad boy thing. At least, in the place where he grew up they would. Maybe he'd be more successful in your neck of the woods?

 

I have yet to meet a guy that is my height who is so successful with women without being extremely (and I mean steroids induced) muscular or rich. Most guys I know who are successful with women are generally atleast 6 feet, with 1 or 2 who are around 5'10. If you are under 5'10, the pickens get slim, REALLY slim. Maybe you live in a place where women are less superficial than in the big cities .

 

Quick story about when I was in California earlier this year. I was walking along a path eavesdropping on the conversation of two girls behind me. "He's like 5 ft 9". I mean he's like a nice guy and everything but I really like prefer guys who are over 6ft."

 

I slowed down and moved to the side, because I wanted to let these girls past so that I could have a look at the one who was wittering on. She was about 5 ft nothing, dumpy build and a face that failed to make any kind of imprint on my memory.

 

If that girl came to where I live and started up with that kind of stuff, she'd be cut down pretty quickly. Not in a really brutal way (unless she said it around a particularly brutal group), but she would be laughed at, quizzed as to how the choosiness was working out for her....and whatever answers she gave would be swiftly examined for the BS element.

 

So no, we're not more superficial. We're just less tolerant of displays of superficiality from people who are deluding themselves about their own level of attractiveness and the options available to them.

 

I don't know, I feel most women act like yes indeed 5'8 is midget territory. I am generally atleast 2-3 inches taller than like 75% of women but that isn't enough. Women factor in their "heels" that they wear 1 time a year (IE an excuse not to date guys my height) and when they wear their heels they want you to not just be taller but be 3-4 inches taller than them even when they wear heels .

 

I did a quick check. The average height for men in your country is 5 ft 9" - same as it is in my country. So for every man who's 6 ft 2" there's got to be several men who are around your height or less.

 

Generally most women I know consider anyone under 6 feet tall to be a midget. Not because the average man is necessarily 6 feet tall, but rather because the only men women actually SEE are 6 ft and up. Every man under 6 feet tall has to be REALLY special to get a decent looking girlfriend.

 

What constitutes "really special"?

[burning 4 revenge]

What constitutes "really special"?

hung like saddam hussein (i just made that phrase up )