A Different Perspective

[Trimmer]

If you hadn't forced an answer out of your H, perhaps Tom would have pulled his s*** together and the A would run its course, OW and Tom are not forced together and Tom realizes he messed up, goes home, is a better H to Lisa and they live happily ever after.

 

Hmmm....

 

Perhaps you should MYOB in the future and those kids may have had an intact family.

 

GEL you took the words right out of my mouth. I'm thinking Tom was forced into D and might not ever have left for the OW unless forced. Tom and his new wife should thank Mr and Mrs Caitlyn.

 

So I can't imagine any other conclusion than that you two would have advised the OP and her husband to just suck it up, take the information that Tom dumped on them, and then to go and continue to socialize, look their friend Lisa in the eye and smile like nothing was wrong, and be complicit in the lie? Let's get real here, would that have been your advice?

 

Poor Tom.... "forced" into a divorce. And that evil Caitlyn, who broke up the family.

 

I'm thinking it's more likely that Tom is a Class A coward. He wanted to leave his family, but didn't have the damn balls to take responsibilty for it. So he sought out people close to his wife to confide in? Yes, because he knew that it would bring the situation to a head, and "force" his hand. This is one of those "wanted to get caught" situations, he just had no guts.

 

Caitlyn, the only thing I think Tom did wrong to you was to 'make appearances'. But you are a grown up and you should be able to get over this. The only person Tom owed the truth to was himself.

Hmmm... and not, say, his wife?

[In_Repair]

There is no denying that Tom is responsible for his actions and they were "wrong", but I also think that the OP's husband handled things poorly. When he gave me that ultimatum to tell my wife, I would have told her because he left me with no other choice... but I would have knocked him on his ass right before doing it. Caitlyn's husband wasn't asked to live a lie, he was asked for advice about something. Tom was beating around the bush regarding the issue, probably trying to feel out his friend's attitude before full disclosure. Before counseling his friend and actually getting to the bottom of the issue, caitlyn's husband runs to her and they together decide how Tom should conduct his life. They are entitled to their opinion, and if this was something that they couldn't handle then they should have simply stepped away from the friendship instead of forcing his hand. I mean, maybe I missed it, but was there any mention of them sitting down with Tom and discussing what he wanted, or maybe offering him help and guidance to get out of the affair... anything like that? Who was being Tom's friend here?

 

Again, I'm not trying to attack the OP here, but I do think they all screwed the situation up. No wonder her husband has trust issues regarding his male friends... none of them are ever going to trust him in this manner again.

[NoIDidn't]

I see nothing wrong with the OP, or where the OP is claimed to be saying that a friendship should have stopped the A.

 

A person that thinks highly of their friends and friendships would be more considerate.

 

I applaud the OP and her H for telling "Tom" to tell his W, or they would. I think Tom was a First Class Pinhead for telling his W that they knew and didn't tell her - which was only another lie. But I find it telling that those that are defending Tom forgot this little nugget.

 

People don't like being lied to or being expected ito perpetuate others' lies. I don't think a friendship with Tom is going to be possible. Trust me, if you are still friends with his ex, she is going to take a continued friendship with him as a slap in the face.

[donnamaybe]

You know what the whole point of this thread according to the Original Post is:

 

You shouldn't have an A because it messes up your friendships.

 

Obviously no one made Tom have an A. It is however LUDICROUS that the OP believes that her and her H being Tom's friend ALONE should stop him from having an A.

 

Stop him from having an affair? No. She wanted him to stop SNEAKING AROUND. Go on and have the damned affair, but leave the BS OUT of it by letting her know so she can get out of a sham of a marriage. She is this woman's friend. What kind of friend would allow her GF to get played for a fool in as serious a situation like that? Not me, that's for DAMN sure! And if MY man were screwing around behind MY back and a friend of MINE knew and didn't tell me, she wouldn't be my friend any longer.

[donnamaybe]

The only person Tom owed the truth to was himself.

WTF?!!!!

 

So the BS didn't deserve any truth? Wow.

[Caitlyn]

To Trimmer Thank you. My husband is in no way responsible. He is not the one who had the affair, he is not the one who got his OW pregnant & he is not the one who lied to everyone. That is all on Tom.

 

To White Flower & Greeneyedlady

 

Sorry, but Tom wasn't forced to do anything. No one forced him to cheat on his wife, no one forced him to lie to everyone around him & no one forced him to leave. Lisa offered to try and work it out if he ended the affair, Tom CHOOSE not to do that and was booted for it.

 

Besides, the OW was pregnant already. D would of happened.

Even if by some miracle Tom had kept the pregnacy & child support secret, Lisa would of know because she found one of the love letters the day after he told her. Let's not forget the hang up phone calls she had mentioned to me the week before & I had suggested she put an annoy. call block on to stop them. And if none of that was enough for Lisa to have figured it out soon enough, might I also add Tom worked with his OW, he was her supervisor. Everyone at work already knew what was going on & complaints had already been filed by a co-workers with corporate. Basically put, Tom's affair was going to come out soon, no way around it. He was fired the week after he told Lisa, guess why? For having an inappropriate sexual relationship with a subordinate, a direct violation of company policy. (maybe that is why you shouldn't have sex with your OW in the storage room when there is a camera only ten feet away) I kind of think that alone would of tipped Lisa off.

 

To In_Repair & Cantgiveup -My husband did NOT tell me anything. I just knew. (as someone said, I read his body language because I know him well) And he did offer his friend advice that night, but advice based on the lie that the affair hadn't actually happened yet. He was a perfect friend that night, they talked for about 3 hours. The problem is that over the next 3 days, the reality of the situation tore my husband apart. Lisa was just as much a friend as Tom & now my husband was being forced to lie to her. He had already lied to her once on the phone & we were faced with the prospect of an entire evening with both Lisa & Tom where we would both be forced to lie yet again. I'm sorry, but no way in hell should my husband have to give up his own convictions & suffer because someone decided to put this crap on his shoulders.

 

While honesty is not a top priority for some, in my family, it very important. Tom knew that & he lied to my husband anyway. Tom also knew we would not lie to Lisa so why even tell us? There are only two possible reasons that I can think of, either Tom was hoping we would do his dirty work for him (Tell Lisa ourselves) or he was forcing us to pick sides.

 

As for the trust issue, it is my husband not trusting his own judgement/instinct, not his friends lacking trust in him. If anything, we are more trusted by others than ever. It''s other people they lack trust in, not my husband, not me.

 

 

 

So no, sorry, but neither myself or my husband will take any blame in this. It all falls on Tom. He made the bad choices. All we did was do EXACTLY what Tom knew we would do, we were honest.

[Caitlyn]

Stop him from having an affair? No. She wanted him to stop SNEAKING AROUND. Go on and have the damned affair, but leave the BS OUT of it by letting her know so she can get out of a sham of a marriage. She is this woman's friend. What kind of friend would allow her GF to get played for a fool in as serious a situation like that? Not me, that's for DAMN sure! And if MY man were screwing around behind MY back and a friend of MINE knew and didn't tell me, she wouldn't be my friend any longer.

 

That is almost exactly what Lisa had said before and after this all happened. She made her views clear, if we had hidden this from her, had we lied to her, we were no better tham Tom. That is why we were honest & that is why she still trusts us.

[GreenEyedLady]

I'm shocked you seem to think that bolded part is the normal outcome of an affair. That's hard to get in any relationship, let alone one burdened with additional stress from the start.

 

The normal outcome of an A is they run their course or there is a d-day or the MP ends their M.

 

I am sorry that your M is unsatisfying to you, but my M is very satisfying and happy for us. And we don't care what people think and we've actually found lots of support FROM OUR FRIENDS.

 

GEL

[complicatedlife]

Ok, I feel compelled to come out of lurking for this thread, too!

 

OP: I understand that you have your opinion about friendships and affairs and you are certainly entitled to it. I'm not quite sure whether I agree or not as it really depends on the circumstances surrounding the situation. If I was the friend of a married couple and was given knowledge that one of the persons in the marriage was being unfaithful, I would FIRST talk with the person doing the cheating and try to encourage them to get IC and to talk with their spouse. I would give that some time to sink in. If that produced no results, I would pull back from speaking with and interacting with the other spouse and when that person asks me why I am behaving in that way, I would tell said spouse that I don't feel comfortable and that they may need to speak to their spouse as to why because they might have an idea. But that's my style of doing things.

 

When my current boyfriend was a MM, he told not one single soul about our situation because he felt that it was his business as well as his burden to keep to himself. When he made a decision to leave the marriage, that is when he told people - and then, he only told one person - his best friend since kindergarten, and that person kept his confidence even though they have a very similar friend/clique group as you do.

 

However....I hope this doesn't offend you, but I have to say that you come across as being very dominant and controlling over your husband. I am not saying that you don't love him and that you don't want to protect him, but it's almost more of like a motherly type of protection as opposed to a wife protecting her husband, with an additional control factor. The reason why I say this is because Tom came over to talk with your husband. Although Tom is also your friend, this was your husband's very best friend - but the thing is, after Tom told your husband what he felt like he needed to get off of his chest, you forced your husband to tell you what Tom told him - if you don't like the word "force", replace it with "asked". I would NOT have asked him to disclose what was said. Men sometimes need to be able to converse with their male friends and be able to keep it just among themselves. If he came in looking upset, I would have simply asked, "Hey,babe - you okay?" And if he answered yes or some variation of yes and still seemed upset, I would have simply said/asked, "If you want to tell me about it - if it's not confidential, I'm all ears, okay?" And squeeze his hand and go about doing whatever I was doing. I can't even move on to the rest without getting past WHY you felt he had to tell you what was discussed.

 

I find some women to want to be a part of and into every single thing their mate is saying and doing - when do they get a chance to be an individual man? I agree with some posters who say that had your husband NOT told you and Tom was simply able to vent, the situation may have turned out quite differently.

[GreenEyedLady]

That is not the whole point of this thread. You need to read better. The point is my husband may rebuild a friendship with a man who married his OW & I won't go into it blind. I know a little more from the OW's perspective & it may make it easier on all involved.

 

A couple of other points since you seem hell bent on arguing with me:

 

-No where did I even imply that our friedship with Tom should of somehow stopped him from having an affair. I haven't a clue where you got that from, but it wasn't from anything I posted.

 

-No, it didn't ruin our circle of friends, but it did damage it. Then again, we will fix it, we have before & we will agian. It doesn't make me less upset that he did the damage in the first place.

 

-As for the outrage over what he did to his wife and children, that is not the issue I posted about. Those involved know how both myself & my husband feel about what he did, but as I said, IT IS NOT what my post was about. I was trying to keep this as non-judgemental as possible & in return, I get this?

 

And one last thing, Yes, I do agree with that bolded part, but it is an opinion I have a right to. Affairs do hurt many people. I'm sorry if that bothers you, but it is the simple truth. Every other poster has been civil, just as I have been to each of them, yet you seemed to take issue with me instantly. Did I touch on a sore subject for you?

 

Feel free to not care about the people your affair hurt because hey, your happy, screw them, right? But don't bash me for discussing how my husband and myself were affected negatively by an affair & don't bash me for trying to understand things from the OW's perspective before we went forward.

 

The bolded part wasn't the point, you need to express your thoughts better.

 

The point became through other posters responses whether you did the right thing or not. And of all the people who say you did the right thing, I doubt even a quarter of them would do the same thing you and your H did to Tom.

 

Your first post is so out there, I took issue with it immediately. Your ego is so big that you think OP's (who I clearly stated in a previous post often don't know all/any their MM's friends) should take them into consideration. I'm sorry YOU are just not that important. The people important to be considered would be the spouse and their children. And in case you didn't notice that is the responsibility of the MM.

 

Also you even called yourself the "betrayed friend."

 

And finally, you don't want to understand from an OW/OM perspective. You take issue with all the people who wear that title. You wanted to come here and lecture us and give us a "different perspective." So I gave you my different perspective. And you didn't like mine at all either, did you?

 

You are entitled to your opinion and I am certainly entitled to mine.

 

GEL

[complicatedlife]

As a friend' date=' I love and support my friends. I can't live their lives for them, I can't make decisions for them. I may not agree with the decisions that they make, but I will support them. And if they make a dreadful mistake, I will be there to help them pick up the pieces of their lives again.[/b']

Wow. This is my EXACT philosophy of friendship and how I treat my friends.

 

As for the rest of the story' date=' I wonder if Tom was seeking out your H for some help and advice, and while he may not have disclosed everything in that first conversation, perhaps he would have, had they continued to communicate. Instead, your H offered the ultimatum to either tell his W, or your H would.[b'] Perhaps Tom saw your H as "his friend" as opposed to "their friend" and felt secure to approach him for help, in confidence.

 

My thoughts exactly.

[donnamaybe]

I am sorry that your M is unsatisfying to you,

 

Where in the HELL did you get THAT?!

 

Now you're just being snarky, and that is NOT very becoming.

[GreenEyedLady]

Where in the HELL did you get THAT?!

 

Now you're just being snarky, and that is NOT very becoming.

 

I got it from her post that most M's who don't start out with so much stress rarely get to relatively happy.

 

Maybe you should check the forum title. If BS's and others are allowed and even encouraged to be snarky here, it shouldn't be out of place for a fow to be, should there?

 

Can't have it both ways...

 

GEL

[complicatedlife]

Your first post is so out there, I took issue with it immediately. Your ego is so big that you think OP's (who I clearly stated in a previous post often don't know all/any their MM's friends) should take them into consideration. I'm sorry YOU are just not that important. The people important to be considered would be the spouse and their children. And in case you didn't notice that is the responsibility of the MM.

 

And finally, you don't want to understand from an OW/OM perspective. You take issue with all the people who wear that title. You wanted to come here and lecture us and give us a "different perspective." So I gave you my different perspective. And you didn't like mine at all either, did you?

 

You are entitled to your opinion and I am certainly entitled to mine.

 

GEL

 

Damn, girl! And I mean that very positively and emphatically! Lol. ;-)

[donnamaybe]

And of all the people who say you did the right thing, I doubt even a quarter of them would do the same thing you and your H did to Tom.

 

Oh, poor poor widdow Tom! Nobody "did" anything to Tom. Tom did it to himself. The only thing Caitlyn did was to "undo" something being done to her unwitting friend.

 

Tom was being a sneaky, lying b'tard. All finished!

[donnamaybe]

I got it from her post that most M's who don't start out with so much stress rarely get to relatively happy.

 

I'm not sure what the above means. Can you please enlighten me?

[complicatedlife]

To In_Repair & Cantgiveup -My husband did NOT tell me anything

 

???

But from your first post:

 

When my husband came inside after the chat, I knew in my gut what had happened. I even said "Let me guess, he's sleeping with someone at work" Inside, I prayed my husband would laugh and say of course not, but instead, his face drained of color & he clammed up.

 

Over the course of the next three days, my husband stopped eating, stopped talking & was an emotional mess. What our supposed friend Tom did that night was put a huge burden on my husbands shoulders. While he did not admit to the affair, he admitted to thinking about one.

 

If your husband told you nothing, how did you know: While he did not admit to the affair, he admitted to thinking about one??

[complicatedlife]

I'm not sure what the above means. Can you please enlighten me?

 

Here you go:

I'm shocked you seem to think that bolded part is the normal outcome of an affair. That's hard to get in any relationship, let alone one burdened with additional stress from the start.

[complicatedlife]

Oh, poor poor widdow Tom! Nobody "did" anything to Tom. Tom did it to himself. The only thing Caitlyn did was to "undo" something being done to her unwitting friend.

 

Tom was being a sneaky, lying b'tard. All finished!

Oh, God, are you serious, Donna? Sneaking, yes. Lying, yes. As for the b'tard - so not necessary, I mean....none of us here EVER sneak and lie about ANYTHING AT ALL EVER IN LIFE, do we? This is why I haven't been participating so much here - some things just don't need to be said. The man isn't even here to defend himself - not that I think he'd have a defense!

[donnamaybe]

Quote:

 

Originally Posted by Caitlyn

I'm shocked you seem to think that bolded part is the normal outcome of an affair. That's hard to get in any relationship, let alone one burdened with additional stress from the start.

 

 

Here you go:

 

And one stretches that statement to mean Caitlyn is unhappy in her marriage how? Oh, wait. I know. Because one disagrees with her and wants to get in a dig.

[donnamaybe]

Oh, God, are you serious, Donna? Sneaking, yes. Lying, yes. As for the b'tard - so not necessary, I mean....none of us here EVER sneak and lie about ANYTHING AT ALL EVER IN LIFE, do we? This is why I haven't been participating so much here - some things just don't need to be said. The man isn't even here to defend himself - not that I think he'd have a defense!

 

If I found my spouse had been doing the things Tom had been doing, I can definitely imagine myself using those very words, yes.

[complicatedlife]

If I found my spouse had been doing the things Tom had been doing, I can definitely imagine myself using those very words, yes.

That's my point, Donna. And I mean this with the utmost respect because I do like you - but he is NOT your spouse and you called him that. Was that necessary? It goes right along with the way that some people here are nasty and rude to people when they don't like what they say or what their opinion is. Tom did nothing to you and as I mentioned, is not here to defend himself - we are getting everything from the OP, Caitlyn's point of view. Just sayin'.

[GreenEyedLady]

Oh, poor poor widdow Tom! Nobody "did" anything to Tom. Tom did it to himself. The only thing Caitlyn did was to "undo" something being done to her unwitting friend.

 

Tom was being a sneaky, lying b'tard. All finished!

 

Tom was sneaking and lying: to his W. It was a marital issue that he was going to discuss with his friend.

 

Tom did do it to himself, he was dumb to say anything to this woman's H.

 

Caitlyn didn't undo anything. Tom is married now to that woman and they're having a baby.

 

GEL

[GreenEyedLady]

And one stretches that statement to mean Caitlyn is unhappy in her marriage how? Oh, wait. I know. Because one disagrees with her and wants to get in a dig.

 

Maybe Caitlyn is happy, but I bet her H isn't. Now he looks like he is p**** whipped.

 

And we usually make comments based on our experience. Her experience seems to be that most M's rarely make it to relatively happy.

 

GEL

[GreenEyedLady]

LOL is that what your husband says to you when he wants to go out with the "guys".

 

What an assumption to say her husband is pussywhipped because they discuss their conversations with others with one another. It's called best friends and confidants.

 

I said that because his friends confides in him about possibly starting an A, then the OP forces her H to tell her what his friend said and then they both tell him that if he doesn't tell his W, they will.

 

NF, I know you are not blind and I know that you think they did the right thing, but look at it from a male perspective.

 

GEL