A Different Perspective

[complicatedlife]

& I see nothing wrong with having that level of communication.

 

So if other's don't share this same view, are they "wrong"?

[Caitlyn]

Oh, that is true - but I wouldn't say everyone who shared that view was being closed minded - it is what it is; a different view being shared, not a view being disclosed as being the "only" and "correct" one - there is a difference. For example, I gave my own point of view and while it i=may be a strong view and opinion, and even expressed in that way, never once did I say that Caitlyn's view was WRONG or INCORRECT. Hope that makes sense.

 

 

Healthly discussion & opposing views are always a good thing IMO. It's a good way to expand your view of life & I really do welcome all views, even the ones I don't agree with. Most of the posts fell into this category, answering my questions, giving me a view from the other side & expanding my knowledge of a situation that is often not openly talked about.

 

I do however take issue with the posts that lacked respect & I especially take issue with the insults and digs at my marriage/husband. There was no need to go there.

[NoIDidn't]

Ms. NID - show me and/or quote me where I say/write that Caitlyn's relationship/marriage is "wrong because they share everything" - PLEASE SHOW ME. Because one thing I am not....I am not bigger than saying I am wrong or apologizing. But, please - show me! I'll be waiting - but I am sure you will come back with nothing and then try to paraphrase something that I have written incorrectly.

 

 

 

For the first time since I have been here for the past 2+ years, I actually take a post written to me offensively - in none of my writings here have I been a hypocrite, NID, NOT ONE,I have continually shared my thoughts and opinions here without EVER putting a poster down as YOU MOST CERTAINLY HAVE......and I certainly don't appreciate the sentiment nor the accusation. Please back up your theory with fact, or keep your unmerited thoughts about my posts to yourself.

 

 

Sure, try to call me out when you were clearly being hypocritical.

 

You point out your parents' ability to keep secrets from each other as if its the way relationships are supposed to be, and saying that others are closed-minded for not agreeing with you.

 

Seriously, all you need to do is go back and read your own posts you want to see the hypocrisy that I am talking about. No need to get sensitive about it. You don't need to appreciate the sentiment. All I did was point out that you were, in fact, doing exactly what you called "close minded". And THAT pretty much is the definition of hypocrisy.

[complicatedlife]

My husband and I also believe and follow this. If something is told to him in confidence it stays confidential - likewise for me.

 

However, if I see that something is something is eating at my husband badly I will ask him what is wrong. We also came to an agreement during our troubles that we would never protect someone else above our marriage - and keeping some things confidential can/has affected our marriage - depending upon both the source and nature of the confidence.

 

This thread has been interesting to read (in fact I haven't read all of it, but it's been very interesting.)

 

We recently dealt with a situation that held similarities to the Tom/Lisa situation. My husband's very good friend told him about an affair. He was told the information in confidence, so did not talk to me about it. However, he (like Tom) could not eat or sleep. Our sex life suffered. He was a wreck. He gave me some hints, but did not talk about it. Finally, I sat him down and said that he was falling apart, and if he didn't want to talk to me about it, he needed to talk to someone. He chose to talk to me. After talking to me - (I really had no input, I only listened and cried a little for the wife) - my husband met again with his friend. My H told his friend that if he didn't stop the affair immediately he would no longer have any relationship with him. The man did stop the affair, but I doubt their relationship will ever really be good again - my husband's choice - not the other man's.

I think this is great, personally, and I am pretty sure that my parents would place their marriage above confidence if they ever needed or need to do that, but it doesn't appear that that has ever happened, and I hope for their sake as well as their friends who are all like aunts and uncles to me that it doesn't!

[Caitlyn]

So if other's don't share this same view, are they "wrong"?

 

 

Of course not. Everyone has a right to their opinion & I have respected each one of the posters who have disagreed with me during this discussion. The exception has been when the posts were more about digs at me, my husband or my marriage.

[complicatedlife]

Sure, try to call me out when you were clearly being hypocritical.

 

You point out your parents' ability to keep secrets from each other as if its the way relationships are supposed to be, and saying that others are closed-minded for not agreeing with you.

 

Seriously, all you need to do is go back and read your own posts you want to see the hypocrisy that I am talking about. No need to get sensitive about it. You don't need to appreciate the sentiment. All I did was point out that you were, in fact, doing exactly what you called "close minded". And THAT pretty much is the definition of hypocrisy.

 

Lol - like I said....unsubstantiated. No one else here is saying that but you. If you had a better comprehension of my posts, you would know EXACTLY what I meant by closed-mindedness. So, perhaps, you need to go back and read them - I know quite well what I wrote, and as I said - point it out so I can either help you understand or apologize but you couldn't do it.

 

And NEVER ONCE did I say my parents' way was right - I said that is what THEY DO and it is what works for THEM, and it is neither right nor wrong, nor is anyone else's view whether it coincides with mine or not. See, NID, you like to attack people (sometimes it's just their posts but not the poster) who don't hold your same views and values or when you think they are 'wrong". Instead of appreciating another human being's point of view and choosing to engage in a mature and civilized dialogue on the differences, you choose to criticize, call them names, and tell them that they are wrong. Sorry, I don't get down like that - I was raised quite DIFFERENTLY...get that, not WRONG, but DIFFERENTLY, in that my parents have embedded in me that just because someone doesn't share your views and/or values doesn't make you better than them, doesn't make them a bad person, and it doesn't make you or them right or wrong. It makes us HUMAN.

 

So, thank you for trying to treat me less than humanly with your unsubstantiated, non-factual, and no evidence whatsoever post. So much for sharing views without name calling and being condescending - hence my reason why I mostly lurk. My friends and mom are right: some people here are just plain MEAN and INHUMANE. I will add: do anything to get their own point across or to make someone look bad that they think is "wrong". Thank God I actually care about people's feelings and have some self respect or I would actually be on a "curse-out" rampage!

[complicatedlife]

Of course not. Everyone has a right to their opinion & I have respected each one of the posters who have disagreed with me during this discussion. The exception has been when the posts were more about digs at me, my husband or my marriage.

Ok. I am certainly not into "digging"! And while I don't share your same views on how confidentiality is handled within the context of a marriage and I am always passionate about my thoughts and views (I'm just a passionate woman about everything!), it certainly doesn't mean that I don't respect your view - obviously, it works for you and you're happy with it, so it doesn't matter what I or anyone else thinks about it, does it?

[NoIDidn't]

Ms. NID - show me and/or quote me where I say/write that Caitlyn's relationship/marriage is "wrong because they share everything" - PLEASE SHOW ME. Because one thing I am not....I am not bigger than saying I am wrong or apologizing. But, please - show me! I'll be waiting - but I am sure you will come back with nothing and then try to paraphrase something that I have written incorrectly.

 

 

 

For the first time since I have been here for the past 2+ years, I actually take a post written to me offensively - in none of my writings here have I been a hypocrite, NID, NOT ONE,I have continually shared my thoughts and opinions here without EVER putting a poster down as YOU MOST CERTAINLY HAVE......and I certainly don't appreciate the sentiment nor the accusation. Please back up your theory with fact, or keep your unmerited thoughts about my posts to yourself.

 

I went back and read through your particular posts, and I have to admit that you have not DIRECTLY said anything about Caitlynn's marriage communication being wrong. But, yet, you provided anecdotal evidence in support of the *idea* that they are doing the confidence to friends wrong when pointing out how your parents have handled such issues.

 

I still find supporting the *idea* that was put forth by other posters that were indeed saying the OP and her H are somehow *wrong* for sharing the info that Tom was having an A while saying that other's are closed-minded is hypocritical.

 

So I see nothing to apologize for, other than my tone. Especially the tone of my previous response to this post. Now, that, was attitudinal and I do apologize for coming off as if I have a chip on my shoulder. I do not. I am sorry for posting with too much 'tude.

[NoIDidn't]

Lol - like I said....unsubstantiated. No one else here is saying that but you. If you had a better comprehension of my posts, you would know EXACTLY what I meant by closed-mindedness. So, perhaps, you need to go back and read them - I know quite well what I wrote, and as I said - point it out so I can either help you understand or apologize but you couldn't do it.

 

And NEVER ONCE did I say my parents' way was right - I said that is what THEY DO and it is what works for THEM, and it is neither right nor wrong, nor is anyone else's view whether it coincides with mine or not. See, NID, you like to attack people (sometimes it's just their posts but not the poster) who don't hold your same views and values or when you think they are 'wrong". Instead of appreciating another human being's point of view and choosing to engage in a mature and civilized dialogue on the differences, you choose to criticize, call them names, and tell them that they are wrong. Sorry, I don't get down like that - I was raised quite DIFFERENTLY...get that, not WRONG, but DIFFERENTLY, in that my parents have embedded in me that just because someone doesn't share your views and/or values doesn't make you better than them, doesn't make them a bad person, and it doesn't make you or them right or wrong. It makes us HUMAN.

 

So, thank you for trying to treat me less than humanly with your unsubstantiated, non-factual, and no evidence whatsoever post. So much for sharing views without name calling and being condescending - hence my reason why I mostly lurk. My friends and mom are right: some people here are just plain MEAN and INHUMANE. I will add: do anything to get their own point across or to make someone look bad that they think is "wrong". Thank God I actually care about people's feelings and have some self respect or I would actually be on a "curse-out" rampage!

 

Apparently we were cross posting. I did substantiate my conclusion in the post above this one.

[GreenEyedLady]

But one last thought:

 

My take on the attitudes of some is that certain people - ahem - are PO'd that an affair was thwarted.

 

The A was not thwarted.

 

He actually married her and they are having a baby.

[Caitlyn]

Ok. I am certainly not into "digging"! And while I don't share your same views on how confidentiality is handled within the context of a marriage and I am always passionate about my thoughts and views (I'm just a passionate woman about everything!), it certainly doesn't mean that I don't respect your view - obviously, it works for you and you're happy with it, so it doesn't matter what I or anyone else thinks about it, does it?

 

It does work for us and that is what matters to me.

 

As for you being passionate, IMO thats a good thing in life. Just like different opinions, it would be one boring world if everyone agreed on everything. lol

[GreenEyedLady]

I agree. Sounds like marriage isn't all it was cracked up to be.

 

Just like the good old days.

 

The BS's don't like it when they actually get a fight.

 

I must be a celebrity here.

 

Everyone cares what and how me and my hubby are doing.

 

All I can say is:

 

Good girls don't talk...too loud

 

:love::love::love:

 

One for every day of the week...

 

GEL

[complicatedlife]

I went back and read through your particular posts' date=' and I have to admit that you have not DIRECTLY said anything about Caitlynn's marriage communication being wrong. But, yet, you provided anecdotal evidence in support of the *idea* that they are doing the [b']confidence[/b] to friends wrong when pointing out how your parents have handled such issues.

 

So because I shared something that was actually very real and personal as a different view, that means I am saying that other people's confidence views are "wrong"?

 

I still find supporting the *idea* that was put forth by other posters that were indeed saying the OP and her H are somehow *wrong* for sharing the info that Tom was having an A while saying that other's are closed-minded is hypocritical.

If you read it once again, you will see that I am saying that calling other people's views WRONG are what is closed-minded. While other people may have done what you said, I most certainly did not, and that is why I was offended.

 

So I see nothing to apologize for' date=' other than my tone. Especially the tone of my previous response to this post. Now, that, was attitudinal and I do apologize for coming off as if I have a chip on my shoulder. I do not. I am sorry for posting with too much 'tude.[/quote']

Well, thank you for this,and I mean that. I am not ecstatic about being called a hypocrite, but whatever - I'm still breathing!

[complicatedlife]

Apparently we were cross posting. I did substantiate my conclusion in the post above this one.

Yep - saw that - pardon my sensitivity, but I don't think it's unwarranted, and I meant that last long one to any of the people here who treat other posters (OW, OM, MM, BS - whoever) here in an inhumane way; I will continue to say that there is nothing wrong with sharing opposing views - but it's just not right to down someone because either their views are different, or even they themselves are quite different, and it gets very frustrating to see adults behaving in such a manner on a continual basis.

 

"Can't we all just get along?" Rodney King.

[complicatedlife]

Odd your parents have such a respect for marriage, integrity and keeping someone confidential info and yet they have no problem with you sleeping with a married man. Such a contradiction.

Oh, I am so HURT by this comment! I'm not sleeping with a married man, darling. He is now my boyfriend who my family loves and adores and his family (minus the kids) loves me.

 

And my parents have nothing to do with your bitterness, leave them out of this; if you want to attack me, please do so. But I am not sitting here talking about how yours raised a less than stellar human being.

[complicatedlife]

Ooops nevermind that's right I forgot. As long as you ask for forgiveness you can do whatever immoral act you like.

Oh, you didn't know? "So if you don't know, now you know!' Biggie Smalls/Christopher Wallace

[Reggie]

I'm shocked you seem to think that bolded part is the normal outcome of an affair. That's hard to get in any relationship, let alone one burdened with additional stress from the start.

 

GEL, does a lot of the " me thinks he doth protest too much" stuff. Give her marriage some time. It's early in the game for these two.

[Reggie]

The normal outcome of an A is they run their course or there is a d-day or the MP ends their M.

 

I am sorry that your M is unsatisfying to you, but my M is very satisfying and happy for us. And we don't care what people think and we've actually found lots of support FROM OUR FRIENDS.

 

GEL

 

Where on earth did you come up with this mean spirited stuff about her marriage, GEL? And, who cares if your marriage is satisfying?

[Reggie]

Are you around men in general alot? Do you work outside the home? Have you had many male friends?

 

Have you seen Benchwarmers?

 

There is a saying,"Bros before hos." Now it is a very rude phrase, I think. But it describes a phenomena known as male friendship. It is the practice of not dissing your buddies for women.

 

And I'm using it loosely to explain what I'm talking about to you. M is a very different R and I don't mean to demean it in any way or downplay the R between a H and W.

 

Basically, most men would never betray their buddies. This means they wouldn't tell their W something they think she would take farther and make their buddies' life worse or hellish.

 

That's what I'm talking about here. I know my explanation is not the best, but oh well.

 

As for my M, I have already told my H, I don't want or need to know everything about his friend's lives. (you just can't unknow something). I am different than you NF and my H and I share pretty much everything together, but if it doesn't concern our R and it's just gossip, I don't need to know it.

 

I hope you know that I'm not being sarcastic here. I'm just trying to explain.

 

GEL

 

Benchwarmers? Now there is some deep stuff that one should base one's life practices on.

[Reggie]

I guess you don't want to look at it from a male perspective.

 

Maybe that's how it is in your M, but that's not how it is in every M. I would think most men wouldn't even tell their W's.

 

How the heck do you know what most men would do? Have you had a sex change?

[Reggie]

No - she says it's different when it's your child. If her personal friend was involved in an affair and she was also friends with the other spouse, she says she would encourage the AP to tell because it's the right thing to do and she would pray for them. And she would not tell my dad IF SHE WAS ASKED NOT TO, nor would she tell the other spouse. But she said she would also pray for them and with the AP. So, as I mentioned before, everybody's different - there's really no right or wrong here, it's a personal belief/opinion on how to handle what you feel should or should not be confidential between friends and a spouse.

 

Well, then, your mom must be right. After all, she is married to a minister and does some amatuer counseling> Let's get Jimmmy Swaggert or Jim Baker on the line and see how they feel, too.

[Reggie]

Come on, now, "noforgiveness" - don't be coy, you know you read right! I have no problems articulating myself on here! I happen to write very well. You were trying to be funny, but it's cool - no harm, no foul.

 

I certainly did share the post with them!! They were out here with me in the backyard earlier, so I asked them. Is it odd that a family is close and can share things? My parents and I don't always share the same views, but I can still go to my mom and my MINISTER, yep, again - MINISTER dad about anything. Repeat: ANYTHING. I love that. By the way, he thinks he needs to pray for you because of your screen name! Lol.

 

Matter of fact, I told my mom about MM from the beginning and she never told my dad. How 'bout THEM apples - wanna try to attack that one?

 

Sounds like one crazy, whacky bunch . Very healthy.

[complicatedlife]

Well, then, your mom must be right. After all, she is married to a minister and does some amatuer counseling> Let's get Jimmmy Swaggert or Jim Baker on the line and see how they feel, too.

Uh - Jimmy Swaggart is racist and I am a woman of color, so we definitely don't share the same views....and Jim Baker is cracked. Of course, these are all of my opinions of these individuals!

 

Let's get it right:

My mom is married to a double PhD mechanical engineer and professor, who also has a degree in Divinity and has advanced training in CHRISTIAN COUNSELING. My mom herself is an elementary school teacher with a degree in early childhood education and she is also an LCSW - know what that is, my dear Reggie? It is someone who is qualified to be a therapist.

 

So now when you want to talk about them, get it right, Mr Sarcastic, I am going to rain on CL's parade! Your ex that cheated must have cursed you out today, you're "frustrated", or you saw her behaving in a happy manner. Poor thing. I do hope your day gets better!

[complicatedlife]

Sounds like one crazy, whacky bunch . Very healthy.

 

Nowhere near as crazy as the whacky bunch of parents/people who raised a dude who goes to an OW forum named Reggie who has to go around putting people down to make himself feel better for his shortcomings as a husband, therefore leading his wife to cheat, and/or his lack of knowledge in the emotional department where he could have figured out that he was marrying a serial cheater.

But....it takes crazy to know crazy.

[White Flower]

So I can't imagine any other conclusion than that you two would have advised the OP and her husband to just suck it up, take the information that Tom dumped on them, and then to go and continue to socialize, look their friend Lisa in the eye and smile like nothing was wrong, and be complicit in the lie? Let's get real here, would that have been your advice?

 

Poor Tom.... "forced" into a divorce. And that evil Caitlyn, who broke up the family.

No actually, but I do wonder why Tom decided to confide in Caitlyn's husband and what her husband agreed to in that moment. I'm sure Tom needed to confess this to a trusted friend and look how the friend treated him.

 

I'm thinking it's more likely that Tom is a Class A coward. He wanted to leave his family, but didn't have the damn balls to take responsibilty for it. So he sought out people close to his wife to confide in? Yes, because he knew that it would bring the situation to a head, and "force" his hand. This is one of those "wanted to get caught" situations, he just had no guts.

You could be right, but then again we just can't know. We can actually look at this another way; Tom's new wife might be very grateful to Caitlyn and her husband at this time.

Hmmm... and not, say, his wife?

You're right. I got a phone call and had to end my post quickly! I was going to add his wife and his family.

 

To those you say 'I love you' on a daily basis are ones you should be completely transparent with.