A Different Perspective

[silktricks]

I find it very amusing that some posters go on and on about how everyone has different opinions and they should ALL be respected, yet those same posters bashed the OP quite harshly for HER opinion.

It's a bit of a different kettle of fish when you make a post asking for people's thoughts on a subject. Some of those thoughts will undoubtedly be negative. If people then post an opinion and are bashed by others about that opinion...

[complicatedlife]

Right and wrong is not a 'view', it is not an ever changing Kaleidoscope that shifts, twists, adjusts, intertwines, contorts, or 'becomes' whatever we so desire or choose. The idea that morality is a subjective standard devised by us, individually, is a slippery slope to the gates of hell... plain and simple. What we do in life accounts for how we have lived our life, and whether we like it or not there is an objective standard we are each held to. The trick is getting real with what that standard is, atoning for our wrongdoings, and becoming the person some of us pretend to be. At the end of the day we have to look in the mirror. When our life comes to a conclusion it can either be something that we are proud we have lived or something we are ashamed of. Ignorance is not bliss, it is a self deception.

 

Everyone who walks the face of this earth owes one another dignified, kind and thoughtful treatment. We cannot say that "this or that" is "right or wrong" for me... and really be dealing with a full deck. We didn't write the 10 Commandments. They exist whether we accept them or not and we are held to the standards they impose whether we like it or not.

 

I would rather be tough on myself during my lifetime while I have an opportunity to change for the better than to create 'lies' that make me appear better than I 'am'.

 

Friends owe one another a duty of fairness or they should not be calling one another friends. Married people owe one another a lot more.

 

I'm sorry but i am in complete disagreement with this.

 

1. Right and wrong - to Christians, it is an objective principle, to some, it is an ethical dilemma wherein right and wrong is but the same thing, the only difference being the CHOICE between right and wrong.

 

2. Therefore, one cannot be considered mentally insane/not playing with a full deck based on their CHOICE not to CHOOSE - I could get into some monism and dualism here, but that's a whole different thread topic.

 

3. 10 Commandments? Not everyone is Christian. There are Buddhists, there are Muslims, there are Jews. So how can we hold someone who is of a completely different faith from us (whoever "us" may be) by our (whoever "our may be) standards?

 

4 There are others who believe in action/cause and consequence (known as the Millian Theory) as opposed to a traditional "right and wrong". An example: A terrorist is about to blow up a store - you catch this terrorist in the middle of his attempts and have the opportunity to kill him before he can do it; do you do it? Is it right or wrong? Or do we kill him and say it's an action worth the consequence?

 

This is exactly what I mean when I personally say that i cannot judge someone based on my own ethical and moral code which IS based in Christianity.

[Gamine]

I'm sorry but i am in complete disagreement with this.

 

1. Right and wrong - to Christians, it is an objective principle, to some, it is an ethical dilemma wherein right and wrong is but the same thing, the only difference being the CHOICE between right and wrong.

 

2. Therefore, one cannot be considered mentally insane/not playing with a full deck based on their CHOICE not to CHOOSE - I could get into some monism and dualism here, but that's a whole different thread topic.

 

3. 10 Commandments? Not everyone is Christian. There are Buddhists, there are Muslims, there are Jews. So how can we hold someone who is of a completely different faith from us (whoever "us" may be) by our (whoever "our may be) standards?

 

4 There are others who believe in action/cause and consequence (known as the Millian Theory) as opposed to a traditional "right and wrong". An example: A terrorist is about to blow up a store - you catch this terrorist in the middle of his attempts and have the opportunity to kill him before he can do it; do you do it? Is it right or wrong? Or do we kill him and say it's an action worth the consequence?

 

This is exactly what I mean when I personally say that i cannot judge someone based on my own ethical and moral code which IS based in Christianity.

 

 

You are lost in the confusion of your own heart and mind and have completely lost the meaning and insight in my words. You are absolutely not the arbiter of right and wrong, individually, according to your predisposition on life and what you choose to accept or not. Your limitations as a human being do not permit you to comprehend the truths of life. You can merely grab onto those thoughts or concepts that incite parts of yourself. However, in so doing you are not growing beyond yourself. Ideologies do not exist to be picked apart. There are many truths that run like a thread through all religions and philosophies. Instead of using information to justify ignorance, reach for wisdom and in so doing you may understand the truths the lie behind the truths.

 

From where I stand your statements are representative of anger and ignorance... and perhaps a sense that you want to rebel against the truth.

 

(by the way the 10 Commandments is in the Old Testament)

[NoIDidn't]

You are lost in the confusion of your own heart and mind and have completely lost the meaning and insight in my words. You are absolutely not the arbiter of right and wrong, individually, according to your predisposition on life and what you choose to accept or not. Your limitations as a human being do not permit you to comprehend the truths of life. You can merely grab onto those thoughts or concepts that incite parts of yourself. However, in so doing you are not growing beyond yourself. Ideologies do not exist to be picked apart. There are many truths that run like a thread through all religions and philosophies. Instead of using information to justify ignorance, reach for wisdom and in so doing you may understand the truths the lie behind the truths.

 

From where I stand your statements are representative of anger and ignorance... and perhaps a sense that you want to rebel against the truth.

 

(by the way the 10 Commandments is in the Old Testament)

 

What a great post. Unfortunately, it will be lost on any that are currently in a "state of rebellion".

 

("state of rebellion" will require a new thread elsewhere, lol)

[complicatedlife]

You are lost in the confusion of your own heart and mind and have completely lost the meaning and insight in my words. You are absolutely not the arbiter of right and wrong, individually, according to your predisposition on life and what you choose to accept or not. Your limitations as a human being do not permit you to comprehend the truths of life. You can merely grab onto those thoughts or concepts that incite parts of yourself. However, in so doing you are not growing beyond yourself. Ideologies do not exist to be picked apart. There are many truths that run like a thread through all religions and philosophies. Instead of using information to justify ignorance, reach for wisdom and in so doing you may understand the truths the lie behind the truths.

 

From where I stand your statements are representative of anger and ignorance... and perhaps a sense that you want to rebel against the truth.

 

(by the way the 10 Commandments is in the Old Testament)

 

I mean this with the utmost respect, but nothing of what you said has made any sense to me. I will use one example: The 10 commandments are in the Old Testament and in the religions I chose to use (Buddhism, Muslim and Jewish Religion), the only one who reads the BIBLE are Jews.

 

So based on your theory, every religion besides Christianity and people of Jewish faith are all in MY category, re, your first paragraph. You are making statements and comments to justify what YOU BELIEVE to be true. Trust me when I tell you, there are many here who do not share your very limited and judgmental view -now, of course, this is just my opinion, and of course, you are entitled to yours.

[NoIDidn't]

It's a bit of a different kettle of fish when you make a post asking for people's thoughts on a subject. Some of those thoughts will undoubtedly be negative. If people then post an opinion and are bashed by others about that opinion...

 

This post confuses me. The OP was attacked by posters for actions taken to protect her own marriage and friendships. She was attacked, as was her H and marriage. I highly doubt a man considers being told he is "pussy whipped" is a compliment. It was low and uncalled for.

 

So are you defending those that felt the need to tell her that because they know people that do "marriage" and its communication differently, that she was wrong for her decisions?

 

Because the OP didn't do anything wrong.

[donnamaybe]

It's a bit of a different kettle of fish when you make a post asking for people's thoughts on a subject. Some of those thoughts will undoubtedly be negative. If people then post an opinion and are bashed by others about that opinion...

 

You mean like this?

 

Perhaps you should MYOB in the future and those kids may have had an intact family.

 

With friends like you, who needs enemies?

 

See, this is THE first snarky post in this entire thread. Why did it have to come off like this?

[complicatedlife]

You are lost in the confusion of your own heart and mind and have completely lost the meaning and insight in my words. You are absolutely not the arbiter of right and wrong, individually, according to your predisposition on life and what you choose to accept or not. Your limitations as a human being do not permit you to comprehend the truths of life. You can merely grab onto those thoughts or concepts that incite parts of yourself. However, in so doing you are not growing beyond yourself. Ideologies do not exist to be picked apart. There are many truths that run like a thread through all religions and philosophies. Instead of using information to justify ignorance, reach for wisdom and in so doing you may understand the truths the lie behind the truths.

 

From where I stand your statements are representative of anger and ignorance... and perhaps a sense that you want to rebel against the truth.

 

(by the way the 10 Commandments is in the Old Testament)

 

P.S. But JUST IN CASE, I am "wrong" and need to be enlighteded, Pastor's conference is going on this week at my church of which there are 12,000 members. 170 nations are being represented by 170 reverends, pastors, ministers, and priests, along with many people from these nations who are visiting. I am going to print your post and take it with me to ask these men and women (who know MUCH more about these things than I do - I mean, I just go to church and took some religion (Catholic School) and Philosophy classes (college). So I will see what they say...maybe I'll even come back here and say, "You're right." And I am not being sarcastic.

[donnamaybe]

But the catholic religion believes all you have to do is count some beads, say penance, and confess to a mere mortal, and all your sins are washed away.

 

Seems one could get away with just about anything.

[complicatedlife]

I mean this with the utmost respect, but nothing of what you said has made any sense to me. I will use one example: The 10 commandments are in the Old Testament and in the religions I chose to use (Buddhism, Muslim and Jewish Religion), the only one who reads the BIBLE are Jews

Sorry - I believe they call their book the Torah.

[complicatedlife]

But the catholic religion believes all you have to do is count some beads, say penance, and confess to a mere mortal, and all your sins are washed away.

 

Seems one could get away with just about anything.

I haven't practiced the Catholic faith in a few years, but I think that's true. However, I now believe something different about confessing sins to a "mortal" and sins being washed away - can't get into that here because I don't want to be off topic.....

[donnamaybe]

I haven't practiced the Catholic faith in a few years, but I think that's true. However, I now believe something different about confessing sins to a "mortal" and sins being washed away - can't get into that here because I don't want to be off topic.....

 

True. That would be going OT.

[Gamine]

I mean this with the utmost respect, but nothing of what you said has made any sense to me. I will use one example: The 10 commandments are in the Old Testament and in the religions I chose to use (Buddhism, Muslim and Jewish Religion), the only one who reads the BIBLE are Jews.

 

So based on your theory, every religion besides Christianity and people of Jewish faith are all in MY category, re, your first paragraph. You are making statements and comments to justify what YOU BELIEVE to be true. Trust me when I tell you, there are many here who do not share your very limited and judgmental view -now, of course, this is just my opinion, and of course, you are entitled to yours.

 

 

On the contrary. I do not have a limited view and do not hold the truths of life to one religion, philosophy, or ideology. All share a common thread... an underlying truth to guide the lives of those who are aware. The 10 Commandments are held as a guideline for Christians and those of the Jewish faith. I have also studied the Muslim, Hindu and Buddhist religions... as well as Native American spiritual guidelines. All share the same truth. In each there is a division on 'right and wrong'. They may be referred to as offenses, injuries, etc... however they are, in essence the same. If you disagree with this it is only a statement concerning your personal growth and awareness and... perhaps a desire to reject parameters. When you mature and give up your desire to rebel and settle into an acceptance of life perhaps you will be more open to understand. I speak from an awareness, not a personal belief system. I speak from the cornerstone of EVERY spiritually based religion... with the exception of satanism of course, which encourages the individual to cast aside all parameters of conduct in life to embrace a direction fueled by personal desire only.

[silktricks]

This post confuses me. The OP was attacked by posters for actions taken to protect her own marriage and friendships. She was attacked, as was her H and marriage. I highly doubt a man considers being told he is "pussy whipped" is a compliment. It was low and uncalled for.

 

So are you defending those that felt the need to tell her that because they know people that do "marriage" and its communication differently, that she was wrong for her decisions?

 

Because the OP didn't do anything wrong.

 

It is also my opinion that the OP didn't do anything wrong. That is my opinion.

 

I feel more like I'm "defending" (if that's the right word) the basic premise of what I see LoveShack to be, which is a place to voice opinions. And some of those opinions can be pretty odd - to me .

 

When a post is made and you ASK for opinions - you'd better be prepared for a bunch of negative ones. 'cuz you are definitely going to get 'em!!

[complicatedlife]

On the contrary. I do not have a limited view and do not hold the truths of life to one religion, philosophy, or ideology. All share a common thread... an underlying truth to guide the lives of those who are aware. The 10 Commandments are held as a guideline for Christians and those of the Jewish faith. I have also studied the Muslim, Hindu and Buddhist religions... as well as Native American spiritual guidelines. All share the same truth. In each there is a division on 'right and wrong'. They may be referred to as offenses, injuries, etc... however they are, in essence the same. If you disagree with this it is only a statement concerning your personal growth and awareness and... perhaps a desire to reject parameters. When you mature and give up your desire to rebel and settle into an acceptance of life perhaps you will be more open to understand. I speak from an awareness, not a personal belief system. I speak from the cornerstone of EVERY spiritually based religion... with the exception of satanism of course, which encourages the individual to cast aside all parameters of conduct in life to embrace a direction fueled by personal desire only.

Umm...actually, you are quite incorrect. Some errors (I will only highlight a few): Buddhist believe in the action/consequence theory (I know this from religion AND philosophy class as well as my friend who is a practicing Buddhist all of her life). And there are some Muslims who actually do believe in justified killings - I am quite sure that is not a part of your "truth". So, instead of trying to "call me out" and call me immature with a desire to rebel, to disguise your lack of knowledge in this arena/area by putting a negative focus on me, I suggest you do some research and come back with some true facts. You DO speak from a personal belief system and you are attempting to be condescending to me with your words as well as your tone, which I have certainly not done to you. Uh...so much for YOUR Christianity and beliefs - is this how you treat people that you desire to "teach the right way"? Bad tactic. But....I love a good debate.

[Gamine]

P.S. But JUST IN CASE, I am "wrong" and need to be enlighteded, Pastor's conference is going on this week at my church of which there are 12,000 members. 170 nations are being represented by 170 reverends, pastors, ministers, and priests, along with many people from these nations who are visiting. I am going to print your post and take it with me to ask these men and women (who know MUCH more about these things than I do - I mean, I just go to church and took some religion (Catholic School) and Philosophy classes (college). So I will see what they say...maybe I'll even come back here and say, "You're right." And I am not being sarcastic.

 

 

That is a wonderful thing to do. What is most important here is not to forget that 'religion' serves as a road to the journey of the 'true heart' where love and forgiveness reside. It is meant to take us to a place of lovingkindness. Many have come to our place here on earth as teachers. Many of these teachers were killed or shunned when they shared the 'truths'. The 'truths' were rejected by some and those sharing the 'truths' often silenced. Some held onto them and wrote about them (Bible, Koran, Torah, etc...). When getting beyond cultural twists in each... one can 'see' the commonality amongst them all. It is actually quite a wonderful thing to see how goodness and mercy are shared amongst all human beings who are open to it.

[complicatedlife]

On the contrary. I do not have a limited view and do not hold the truths of life to one religion, philosophy, or ideology. All share a common thread... an underlying truth to guide the lives of those who are aware. The 10 Commandments are held as a guideline for Christians and those of the Jewish faith. I have also studied the Muslim, Hindu and Buddhist religions... as well as Native American spiritual guidelines. All share the same truth. In each there is a division on 'right and wrong'. They may be referred to as offenses, injuries, etc... however they are, in essence the same. If you disagree with this it is only a statement concerning your personal growth and awareness and... perhaps a desire to reject parameters. When you mature and give up your desire to rebel and settle into an acceptance of life perhaps you will be more open to understand. I speak from an awareness, not a personal belief system. I speak from the cornerstone of EVERY spiritually based religion... with the exception of satanism of course, which encourages the individual to cast aside all parameters of conduct in life to embrace a direction fueled by personal desire only.

P.S. While MOST religions have a "right and wrong" concept, not everyone is religious or spriitual, were you aware of that? Are these people "less than" or "immoral" to the rest of society? And what of people who practice humanism? You don't leave any room for any of these people.

[Reggie]

But the catholic religion believes all you have to do is count some beads, say penance, and confess to a mere mortal, and all your sins are washed away.

 

Seems one could get away with just about anything.

 

This is inaccurate. The concept of being forgiven does not relieve one of the responsibility to make restitution and amends. And, forgiveness is contingent on the pennatent intending to avoid the sin in the future.

[complicatedlife]

That is a wonderful thing to do. What is most important here is not to forget that 'religion' serves as a road to the journey of the 'true heart' where love and forgiveness reside. It is meant to take us to a place of lovingkindness. Many have come to our place here on earth as teachers. Many of these teachers were killed or shunned when they shared the 'truths'. The 'truths' were rejected by some and those sharing the 'truths' often silenced. Some held onto them and wrote about them (Bible, Koran, Torah, etc...). When getting beyond cultural twists in each... one can 'see' the commonality amongst them all. It is actually quite a wonderful thing to see how goodness and mercy are shared amongst all human beings who are open to it.

It's wonderful because YOU say it's wonderful, right? (Now I'm messing with you).

 

But on a serious note, I need to make this crystal clear: I DO NOT PRACTICE RELIGION. I believe in spirituality and having a personal relationship with God who does not have a religion. The church I go to is non-denominational but welcomes ALL FAITHS.

[complicatedlife]

This is inaccurate. The concept of being forgiven does not relieve one of the responsibility to make restitution and amends. And, forgiveness is contingent on the pennatent intending to avoid the sin in the future.

Donna - from what I remember of Catholic School/Chruch, I believe that this is pretty accurate.

[Reggie]

I have not studied religion. But, from what I have observed of people that seem pretty spirtual or religous, it seems they all abide by some form of the Golden Rule. The same is true ot the aetheists I respect. Thye lead their lives with integrity and do not harm others to advance their own desires.

Clearly, committing adultery is not abiding by this rule.Nor is hiding something that may hurt a friend.

I just cannotimagine leading a life where I feel that things like committing adultery, lying, hurting others is not wrong.

I hate to keep bringing this up. But, can someone taking the position that the wife, Lisa, should not have been informed address the issues of the duty owed to that friend and the duty to help her avoid potential damage(std's being the most concrete one, but , emotionalk damage, as well).

[Gamine]

Umm...actually, you are quite incorrect. Some errors (I will only highlight a few): Buddhist believe in the action/consequence theory (I know this from religion AND philosophy class as well as my friend who is a practicing Buddhist all of her life). And there are some Muslims who actually do believe in justified killings - I am quite sure that is not a part of your "truth". So, instead of trying to "call me out" and call me immature with a desire to rebel, to disguise your lack of knowledge in this arena/area by putting a negative focus on me, I suggest you do some research and come back with some true facts. You DO speak from a personal belief system and you are attempting to be condescending to me with your words as well as your tone, which I have certainly not done to you. Uh...so much for YOUR Christianity and beliefs - is this how you treat people that you desire to "teach the right way"? Bad tactic. But....I love a good debate.

 

 

I have not shared with you the compendium of my truths or the totality of my belief system. I am aware of Buddhist (karma) theories on action and consequence. In Christianity karma is expressed as "we reap what we sow". There are justified killings in the Muslim faith as there are equally evidenced throughout the Bible as expressed in Christian and Jewish faiths. If one gets beyond the packaging of the 'truths' one can see them clearly. For a humanist it may be "poetic justice" for those biblically inclined it may be 'live by the sword die by the sword'. Thou shalt not kill speaks to a murderous heart no matter what its victim happens to be. Each religion/philosophy has a common thread. Be good. Be kind. Love one another.

[complicatedlife]

I have not shared with you the compendium of my truths or the totality of my belief system. I am aware of Buddhist (karma) theories on action and consequence. In Christianity karma is expressed as "we reap what we sow". There are justified killings in the Muslim faith as there are equally evidenced throughout the Bible as expressed in Christian and Jewish faiths. If one gets beyond the packaging of the 'truths' one can see them clearly. For a humanist it may be "poetic justice" for those biblically inclined it may be 'live by the sword die by the sword'. Thou shalt not kill speaks to a murderous heart no matter what its victim happens to be. Each religion/philosophy has a common thread. Be good. Be kind. Love one another.

This is great...I'm impressed (hope that doesn't come off as condescending!). And I agree (yay, finally!) wholeheartedly with all you have stated here, particularly the bolded part.

[donnamaybe]

This is inaccurate. The concept of being forgiven does not relieve one of the responsibility to make restitution and amends. And, forgiveness is contingent on the pennatent intending to avoid the sin in the future.

 

And so they claim to "intend" to avoid it, but do it anyway. What then?

[complicatedlife]

It is also my opinion that the OP didn't do anything wrong. That is my opinion.

 

I feel more like I'm "defending" (if that's the right word) the basic premise of what I see LoveShack to be, which is a place to voice opinions. And some of those opinions can be pretty odd - to me .

 

When a post is made and you ASK for opinions - you'd better be prepared for a bunch of negative ones. 'cuz you are definitely going to get 'em!!

 

Right - which you are always entitled to. I can't say if I agree with her or not. I think I'd need to know the people involved personally in order to give my best personal opinion as I believe that there are many variables at play here.

 

Exactly - we are all voicing our opinions and views....so...why can't we do that, even when they don't mirror ours with (here it comes, and I KNOW no one will answer!)......KINDNESS???