Hysterical Bonding- A Phase ?

[aeh]

NS

 

I am going for coffee tomorrow with an old MALE friend from HS. Never liked him, he never liked me. He got in touch with me thru social networking site and now we're going for coffee. I know there is no good that can come from this. But yet I can't stop myself. I know I have no ill intentions. I have told my H about it and he's not happy. However, we always had this "arrangement" that we didn't go out with even a group of our own sex (i.e. me going out with a group of girls for drinks)because we thought no good could come from it. However, I read somewhere on LS that someone felt like their life had been taken control of by two other people and that's exactly how I feel. My life was completely screwed up by two people who had no regard or respect for our marriage (namely my H) and after him espousing the whole thing about me not even going out for girls nights (!!) there he is out one on one for lunches with a member of the opposite sex, etc. So I am kinda resentful that I was operating under this different set of rules this whole time. When he disrespected our marriage, he lost the right to dictate the parameters that I will be operating under now. Not that I have any intention of something bad happening tomorrow, but I realize that I alone am responsible for my happiness and while I do want it to work with him, I am tired of the double standard. I know I shouldn't go tomorrow, but I guess I have one foot in the door and one foot out. I can see the logic in not going, can step outside of myself to KNOW that I would have never done that before, but am so pissed off at the double standard. It's sure easy for him to say now, "We really should be operating this way..."

[whichwayisup]

Aeh, don't go. If you are working with your H to work things out, last thing you need to do is this. Especially since you didn't like him and he didn't like you. What's the point? To reach backwards into your past, connect with old flames, or just guys in general is asking for trouble.

[aeh]

So I was out earlier this evening and saw someone similar to my H's OW. It absolutely sent me over the edge. When I shortly thereafter went to dinner with my H, all I could think about was his A. I am absolutely enraged right now. I think we need to sleep in separate beds and definitely stop sleeping together. I can't believe he did this to me, and to our family. At this point, I have NO goodwill for our marriage. I don't want to try and work things out. I don't necessarily want to leave either but I am wondering if I will ever be able to get past this. My H says every time he is feeling better about things (for some reason, it becomes me reassuring him about me wanting to stay in the M, etc.) then it suddenly gets worse...to the point he wonders if we'll even be together. I wonder if I'll ever get over this anger, stop wanting to lash out, stop wanting to validate myself. And then there is the freaking coffee tomorrow. Yes, I'm going. In fact, I'm going even though I am not sure if I want to. I am going because I can. I am FUELED by rage. Will I ever stop imagining her on top of him? Him inside her? Her giving him blow jobs? Maybe it's better to just start over with someone new. Our oldest is a bit suspicious I think because he has seen us have a lot of heated discussions and he is a teenager after all. We try to hide it as much as possible, but we're either fighting or kissing/cuddling and later having sex (still 2-3 times daily!).

[NOTSURE7]

So I was out earlier this evening and saw someone similar to my H's OW. It absolutely sent me over the edge. When I shortly thereafter went to dinner with my H, all I could think about was his A. I am absolutely enraged right now. I think we need to sleep in separate beds and definitely stop sleeping together. I can't believe he did this to me, and to our family. At this point, I have NO goodwill for our marriage. I don't want to try and work things out. I don't necessarily want to leave either but I am wondering if I will ever be able to get past this. My H says every time he is feeling better about things (for some reason, it becomes me reassuring him about me wanting to stay in the M, etc.) then it suddenly gets worse...to the point he wonders if we'll even be together. I wonder if I'll ever get over this anger, stop wanting to lash out, stop wanting to validate myself. And then there is the freaking coffee tomorrow. Yes, I'm going. In fact, I'm going even though I am not sure if I want to. I am going because I can. I am FUELED by rage. Will I ever stop imagining her on top of him? Him inside her? Her giving him blow jobs? Maybe it's better to just start over with someone new. Our oldest is a bit suspicious I think because he has seen us have a lot of heated discussions and he is a teenager after all. We try to hide it as much as possible, but we're either fighting or kissing/cuddling and later having sex (still 2-3 times daily!).

 

your thinking is my w to a tee,this is the same exact scenario happening in my house, except my w clearly states she loves me and wants me and has absolutely no desire to be with anyone else,that being said she of course wants me to in return give her the honesty,trust etc that she deserves..we also keep the kids from knowing but my oldest is only just about 10 and they too only see us fighting,talking,my w crying or kissing and cuddling, i really think if you can keep from them its a good thing as hopefully a year or two down the line when things are better you will be grateful that the kids never knew..

 

my point to you is that you are so fresh and just into this, you are still dealing with the emotions, but my opinion is you want your H and your M to work,your just mad,sad,angry,resentful and the list goes on, you need to give this all time before you make any decisions, if you didnt want your H or your M he would be long gone by now.

 

I think your coffee idea is a terrible one,why even put yourself in that situation, why stoop to your H's level,i can tell you as a wh that its not doing anything to help you and your h grow stronger or move froward in your M. your pain was caused by your h, you need to tell him this, you need to get into mc and get it all out there. it sounds like your h has taken responsibility and wants to make your m work and if thats the case why would you want to now start doing the same things you despised him doing in the first place..

 

i am going through the exact same things your h is now and i understand when he feels reassured,when you are truly remourseful and realize the pain you caused your modd and confidence will swing up and down by how your bs is reacting to you and towards you, thats really all we have at this point, we cant erase the past or take back what happened, we only have from dday on to prove how truly sorry we are..

 

personally i beleive that if you want to make your m work, you need to give your h a true honest chance and not go out and do things to spite him.

[PhoenixRise]

aeh

 

 

I understand how you feel. You have every right to be angry and resentful. Your H got to do whatever he wanted to make himself feel good regardless of who got hurt. The OW got to do whatever she wanted to do to make herself feel good without regard to the harm and destruction caused. But YOU, you have to be the adult, the big girl, do the right thing for everybody. I get it. I felt it. While you kept your agreements with your H and curtailed any social life he was not following suite.

 

BUT sometimes you have to do things that you know will untimately get you where you want to go regardless of your emotional impulses.

 

I am not going to tell you not to go to coffee. I will also not suggest that you should go.

 

I am just going to say think very clearly about your long term goals here.

[aeh]

I went to coffee. It was fine, non-eventful. The old friend did confide he used to have a crush on me. But it was all very non-threatening. I wasn't attracted to him. I would be surprised if there wasn't some interest on his part, but at the same time, it was so insignificant. There won't be anymore on that front.

 

I am ticked off. I am furious. Why do I have to be the big girl? I am always the one that follows the rules, that does what she is supposed to, and I am SICK TO DEATH of it. Everyone else goes out and has some fun and then the ones who follow the rules get to pick up the pieces, just as they always do. I'm tired of being so f'ing responsible (again, I swear like a sailor now...and I was known for NEVER cussing!). Why is it up to me to have to get over it? Do I even want this f'ing marriage? Because marriage just seems like a joke to me. All the vows, the empty promises. All that time I invested in him ,moved all over the f'ing world for him, and this is how I get repaid???!! When do I get rewarded for following the rules? I don't want to hear all the BS about "knowing that I'm a good person inside is my own reward" etc. "knowing that I always do the right thing", "having a clear conscience".... I'M DONE BEING THE GOOD GIRL!!!!!

 

I hate that I have so many triggers. I an blinking back tears of rage right now.

[aeh]

And that's just it. I'm not sure if I want the marriage. I'm not sure if I want my H.

[whichwayisup]

Aeh, since you feel this way, why not separate for a while so you can have time to think.

[PhoenixRise]

Aeh

 

Don't make any decisions about your marriage while you are enraged. Think about taking some time away from H and children so you can focus on yourself and begin to figure out what you want.

[NOTSURE7]

And that's just it. I'm not sure if I want the marriage. I'm not sure if I want my H.

 

my w is the same thing,the good girl etc etc..

 

aeh i have been listening to your story and drawing parallels to my own w, your are 1 week or so ahead, is this what i have coming?, i actually dont think so because i am taking the steps to make sure this dosent occur, you have to both want this M or else at this point it will never happen..

 

you need to calm down a bit,dont so anything rash and wait until the anger subsides a bit,let your h know how you are feeling...

[PhoenixRise]

my w is the same thing,the good girl etc etc..

 

aeh i have been listening to your story and drawing parallels to my own w, your are 1 week or so ahead, is this what i have coming?, i actually dont think so because i am taking the steps to make sure this dosent occur, you have to both want this M or else at this point it will never happen..

 

you need to calm down a bit,dont so anything rash and wait until the anger subsides a bit,let your h know how you are feeling...

 

 

Notsure

 

I think what you as a WS can not understand is how it feels when you have played by the rules and have gotten smacked down as a result. Yes now you want the marriage, but the BW may feel that SHE has wanted the marriage all along and instead of having her contribution respected, instead the WH decided to go out and find someone else to supplement his happiness.

 

Do I think Aeh should throw herself into the path of another man or get involved with someone else if deep down she truly does want to save her marriage? No. It would be counter productive.

 

But in the wake of by H betrayal, I get a BS enjoying the admiration of other men. I even get wanting HIM to know that other men find her attractive.

 

This could be a stage Aeh is going through or it could be a sign that she is not the kind of woman who can ever truly forgive infidelity.

 

Only Aeh can answer this.

[IfWishesWereHorses]

aeh,

 

I completely get where you are coming from. Been there too. Everyone else got to have the fun and when the chips fall, its still you on the giving side. You dealing with the pain to clean up their messes.

 

It is VERY important that you separate (emotionally) somewhat from your H. That you do things to make YOU feel good, fullfilled, worthwhile, and that you find some type of excitement away from and separate from him. It is imparative to your healing whether you stay together or not. You will not heal without those changes within yourself.

 

This is what concerns me about NotSures wife relying on HIM during her recovery. SHE needs to heal separate from him (as well as with him).

 

I've felt all of the things you are dealing with, over and over during the last 3years. One thing I am completely thankful for is that I did not persue anything that I couldn't take back. Not for my H's sake, and not even for my marriages sake (apparently HE does think you can have a marriage and OW), but for MY sake.

 

It would have been even worse for me to deal with any type of recovery if I had lost that part of myself, the part I LIKE BEST about myself. DO NOT let him turn you into someone that you don't like. This is about YOU, not him. String him up by his toenails and leave him for broke, but do not comprimise yourself.

 

Find another way to introduce new things into your life that are only yours. THAT will fullfill you as well help you grow.

 

I'm sorry for your anger. To me it was the hardes thing in the world to deal with because I had never learned to deal with it. I had never had a reason in my childhood to be angry, everyone friends and family were trustworty, and love and supported each other. I had no script for what to do with the anger so I 'bout self-destructed!

 

Do not make any rash decisions for your family or in your marriage. You are so early into this... it really will get somewhat easier, but it is going to take time. Please put your energies into improving you (whether you stay in your M or not). Pat your self on the back, look in the mirror and sollemly swear to YOU that you will NOT engage in any self defeating activities.

 

You stand to do the most harm to yourself. You could also hurt other people in the process.

 

Hang in there, honey.

[aeh]

my w is the same thing,the good girl etc etc..

 

aeh i have been listening to your story and drawing parallels to my own w, your are 1 week or so ahead, is this what i have coming?, i actually dont think so because i am taking the steps to make sure this dosent occur, you have to both want this M or else at this point it will never happen..

 

Notsure, my H is pretty much doing everything "right" too. Telling me he loves me, listening to me, hugging me, holding me, reassuring me....although I have had to do much reassuring to him, too because I have told him all these things I am feeling and then he wants to hear how I am never going to leave him, that I do love him etc.

 

you need to calm down a bit,dont so anything rash and wait until the anger subsides a bit,let your h know how you are feeling...

 

Easy for you to say, Notsure. You went out and had your fun! Easy for you to say not to do anything rash--you have already acted on your impulses! I don't ever get to act on my impulses! I have to be mature to hold my family together. If I don't work on things then the family falls apart. It's once again on my shoulders!

 

Another irony in all of this, is that we were attending church much more this year. We were even involved in a weekly Bible Study. One of the things we were discussing was the movie/book "Fireproof" with Kirk Cameron which is about strengthening your marriage etc. We watched some of the movie and did some discussion on it. So you would think that would have resonated a bit. Nope, guess not. Also, had an unexpected medical issue this year (have always been very healthy, etc) and it was fairly serious. The A had been going on already for 8 months at that point. Nope, still not enough to jolt him back to reality.

 

Sorry, NS, not getting mad at you...just the WS issues here.

[aeh]

Notsure

 

I think what you as a WS can not understand is how it feels when you have played by the rules and have gotten smacked down as a result. Yes now you want the marriage, but the BW may feel that SHE has wanted the marriage all along and instead of having her contribution respected, instead the WH decided to go out and find someone else to supplement his happiness.

 

 

Exactly!!!!

 

Do I think Aeh should throw herself into the path of another man or get involved with someone else if deep down she truly does want to save her marriage? No. It would be counter productive.

 

 

But in the wake of by H betrayal, I get a BS enjoying the admiration of other men. I even get wanting HIM to know that other men find her attractive.

 

This could be a stage Aeh is going through or it could be a sign that she is not the kind of woman who can ever truly forgive infidelity.

 

And how will I ever know? Do I just have to wait long enough to see if the pain lessens? I don't know if I want to go to the MC again (been three times) and done TONS and TONS and TONS and TONS of talking with H. I would say our communication is pretty open and respectful. I feel like I will be given the old platitudes of "forgiveness is a gift you give yourself" and all that. Basically, I'll be told to just suck it up if I really want my M to work.

[aeh]

I'm sorry for your anger. To me it was the hardes thing in the world to deal with because I had never learned to deal with it. I had never had a reason in my childhood to be angry, everyone friends and family were trustworty, and love and supported each other. I had no script for what to do with the anger so I 'bout self-destructed!

 

Yep, anger is not in my repertoire. It is unfamiliar territory for me. And my husband thinks he has never seen this kind of rage in me (obviously) but the thing that is laughable is that he is only seeing the tip of the iceberg. If someone unbottled the true rage within, there's no telling what would happen.

 

Do not make any rash decisions for your family or in your marriage. You are so early into this... it really will get somewhat easier, but it is going to take time. Please put your energies into improving you (whether you stay in your M or not). Pat your self on the back, look in the mirror and sollemly swear to YOU that you will NOT engage in any self defeating activities.

 

You stand to do the most harm to yourself. You could also hurt other people in the process.

 

Hang in there, honey.

 

I can so see how I can do the most harm to myself as far as self-destructive behavior. Men would be the easiest targets and/or vices. I don't drink, smoke, do drugs (of course not, I'm a GOOD girl!). Anyone that knows me on the outside would never believe all that has gone on with my H nor would they believe what is going through my mind. Let me clarify, nothing violent, of course:eek:

[Spark1111]

aeh, its Spark. I felt the same way you did, for a very long time. The rage came up from the bottom of my toes. I threw him out, raged, screamed cried, cursed. Slept alone often, because I could not be in the same room with him.

 

I remember telling the therapist, that I sit here now wondering why I was always so good: Good mother, devoted wife, volunteer, worker.I had the A student mentality; if I work hard enough I get the "A." What did it get me? Betrayed in the most cruel manner by the person I loved and trusted more than anyone.

 

I fell in love with him, because he made me feel so "safe." Ironic, no?

 

I, too, began to enjoy the attention from other men. I needed to feel validated by strangers that I was attractive and charming because I never felt uglier and more worthless in my life.

 

In time it passed. The anger I felt was a grieving for the relationship I thought we had, one strong enough to weather anything. I was still somewhere between bargaining and denial. Why did this happen to ME? I told the therapist, It couldn't have happened to a nicer person, right?

 

I too resisted MC. I did not think it would be productive as I was too angry and remained unsure if I could commit to the marriage. I postponed it for 6 months. I also walked out on the third session when he said he had to get off the rollercoaster! We had just started the hard part.

 

Give yourself time. I told my husband that reconciling our marriage was the hardest thing I had ever done. It took more courage to stay than to run away from all that pain. In retrospect, we probably should have separated for awhile.

 

Yes, often the BS is the one who pieces it all back together because we are the stronger of the two. It's a big job, but with the changes my H has made, it has been worth it. My triggers are starting to abate, and it has been 2 years.

 

And I am very honest about my feelings. I did tell him I have a recurring daydream of meeting a really nice guy who WOULD NEVER cheat on me. He understands.

[aeh]

Spark, is there a way I can contact you directly?

 

I have said everything in your post. EVERYTHING. I totally fantasize about meeting someone who would never cheat on me. I told him today he wasn't my soulmate or the love of my life ..because my soulmate would never do this to me. Fidelity/safety was the #1 reason I married him. NUMBER ONE! I always thought he would be faithful. I would have trusted him in a roomful of 100 naked women. What an idiot I am!

 

Yes, I am grieving for the loss of the relationship I thought I had. I am grieving that I will never love like that again, so pure and innocent. I thought I was special to him. As if after we met each other we never needed anyone else because we were each other's ultimate. I am here right now for the kids. They have definitely kept me grounded--if we didn't have them, I'd be gone.

[Snowflower]

Hi aeh,

 

Oh, I can totally relate to the anger and pain I read in your posts. I have also been where you are now.

 

I am not quite as far along in recovery as Spark and some of the other posters. I'm at a little of 8 months past d-day. My husband and I are still together...we both wanted to save our marriage.

 

I don't remember enough of your story but what you are feeling right now is perfectly normal and healthy. Your anger is justifiable and is a very important piece in your healing process.

 

What is your husband doing? Like I said, I don't remember all your story...is he NC with the OW? Is he trying to reconcile with you?

 

I know you are unsure about the future of your marriage and that is okay--you might be like this for a long time. Everyone works through this in their own way and on their own timeframe. The only advice I will give you is that don't rush to make any hasty decisions right now. You will feel different in one week, different again in one month, different yet again in 3 months. Just give it time-right now you don't know what you want and that is okay.

 

I have also fantasized about leaving my husband and finding a wonderful man who would never even think of cheating on me. It's a fun fantasy to have... I get that. I also know the feeling of always doing the right thing and never getting 'rewarded' for that.

 

(((hugs)))

[aeh]

Hi Snowflower

 

D-Day was June 20, 2009 for me. Thought it was a bit of an EA at first and then found out the whole enchilada June 23. So, its been about 7 weeks. My H immediately instituted NC with MOW. His idea, not mine. I hadn't even processed that much. He sent her a text that basically said I had discovered a series of texts between them and to never contact him again, no email, no text, no phone. He was a bit surprised he didn't hear from her in the first week, but he said that is the one thing that has been a relief for him in this whole deal is that he didn't have to mess with that and he dreaded having to tell me that she had called. There was an email on Monday that a coworker sent out to a bunch of people about a happy hour and she was one of the people on this list and she just responded that she wouldn't be able to make it and it came to his email as well as it was a "reply to all". He showed it to me before deleting it. He has been (mostly) great about it, if there is such a thing, reassuring me, etc. His PA was about 11 months. She no longer works for the company. I didn't tell her H for fear of my H's job, but should he ever not work there or whatever, that will be the first phone call I will make. H totally wants to reconcile. He has always been a very devoted (ha!) and loving h. This is also part of why I am so floored. It's not like I ever suspected it. I thought I was the center of his universe. It might have been easier to take had our relationship been different.

[Snowflower]

Thanks for sharing your story, aeh. I know how painful it is to rehash everything sometimes.

 

Your husband sounds like he is trying to do the right things to repair your relationship. Believe it or not, this will make it easier for you to get through-day by day.

 

Your situation is a bit different than mine-but the pain caused is similar, I am sure.

 

Are you guys in MC? This is crucial.

[foreal]

aeh

 

all you are feeling is so normal, geeez I hope, b/c is it EXACTLY the way I felt just 2 weeks ago. My Dday is about a month before yours, I think (April/May for me-good ol' trickle truth...)

 

EXACTLY (from the men, to the rage, EXACTLY)

 

I did calm down though, about 10 days ago...but I raged HARD for a good 30 days, with few calm days...not sure if you have gotten out your anger or not...anyway, I was tapering off and had not had an 'episode' for about 9 days, then BAM, helloooo rage...I flipped, said really mean, horrible things..

 

Since then, I have calmed, again, but feel that was my last hurrah of THAT expression of anger...I am out of that energy, thank god....so just keep posting and hang in there--and dont make any decisions in your flip out/anger mode...they are all bad decisions at that point, at least from my experience..

 

Your H is remorseful, but is he also a WH who now realizes he has all these issues that he must now address? If so, that can be so draining on YOU the BS....as if you have to now be strong for HIM as well as you b/c he is so F'd up!!!??

[aeh]

We've been three times. The MC said how "well adjusted" we seemed and how well we communicate and she could tell how in love we were with each other (!!!). She also said she had never seen a BS so calm and cool in all her years. Don't know what the significance of that is. At this point, I am so angry I don't know if a MC would help that much more. I don't know if it would be a waste or not. I don't know what she could possibly tell me that would make it better. I have a very F'ed up mind right now. Oops, there goes the F word again. We have a guest house which I am strongly considering one of us moving into, but then the kids would know and I can't imagine that's better than just working this out the way we have been doing within the main house.

[foreal]

We've been three times. The MC said how "well adjusted" we seemed and how well we communicate and she could tell how in love we were with each other (!!!). She also said she had never seen a BS so calm and cool in all her years. Don't know what the significance of that is. At this point, I am so angry I don't know if a MC would help that much more. I don't know if it would be a waste or not. I don't know what she could possibly tell me that would make it better. I have a very F'ed up mind right now. Oops, there goes the F word again. We have a guest house which I am strongly considering one of us moving into, but then the kids would know and I can't imagine that's better than just working this out the way we have been doing within the main house.

 

 

can you go to a movie ALONE tonite?

 

I am!! Julie and julia..I just have to get away from him for the nite...

[Spark1111]

Spark, is there a way I can contact you directly?

 

I have said everything in your post. EVERYTHING. I totally fantasize about meeting someone who would never cheat on me. I told him today he wasn't my soulmate or the love of my life ..because my soulmate would never do this to me. Fidelity/safety was the #1 reason I married him. NUMBER ONE! I always thought he would be faithful. I would have trusted him in a roomful of 100 naked women. What an idiot I am!

 

Yes, I am grieving for the loss of the relationship I thought I had. I am grieving that I will never love like that again, so pure and innocent. I thought I was special to him. As if after we met each other we never needed anyone else because we were each other's ultimate. I am here right now for the kids. They have definitely kept me grounded--if we didn't have them, I'd be gone.

 

Me, too! I stayed sane for my children.

 

You go to your profile and can send a private message to me.

 

I have never loved and trusted anyone like my husband. Felt exactly the same way you did. I will always mourn that pure and innocent person I was before his affair. When I let someone into my heart, I love blindly, ferociously and protectively.

 

In a million years, I would have sworn on a stack of bibles, not my guy. He's a devoted family man of high morals. He disdains people who do ANYTHING to intentionally hurt their own family.

 

What an idiot I was, too.

 

I will never love so purely again. I will never love him the same way. I can't. I am not the same person anymore. We aren't the same couple anymore.

 

Whose loss is greater? His or mine? Hard to tell.

[PhoenixRise]

Notsure

 

I think what you as a WS can not understand is how it feels when you have played by the rules and have gotten smacked down as a result. Yes now you want the marriage, but the BW may feel that SHE has wanted the marriage all along and instead of having her contribution respected, instead the WH decided to go out and find someone else to supplement his happiness.

 

 

Exactly!!!!

 

Do I think Aeh should throw herself into the path of another man or get involved with someone else if deep down she truly does want to save her marriage? No. It would be counter productive.

 

 

But in the wake of by H betrayal, I get a BS enjoying the admiration of other men. I even get wanting HIM to know that other men find her attractive.

 

This could be a stage Aeh is going through or it could be a sign that she is not the kind of woman who can ever truly forgive infidelity.

 

And how will I ever know? Do I just have to wait long enough to see if the pain lessens? I don't know if I want to go to the MC again (been three times) and done TONS and TONS and TONS and TONS of talking with H. I would say our communication is pretty open and respectful. I feel like I will be given the old platitudes of "forgiveness is a gift you give yourself" and all that. Basically, I'll be told to just suck it up if I really want my M to work.

 

 

Aeh

 

 

It is not fair. But it is what it is. When infidelity happens and the decision is made to reconcile, it is the BS who will have to do most of the emotional heavy lifting. It is the BS who will have to process all the feelings of betrayal, anger, lack of trust, etc. You deserved better than this.

 

Go back to MC. If your counselor says anything even resembling the notion that you should just suck it up leave immediately and find another counselor. This soon after dday you are justified to feel what you feel.

 

AND as for how you will know if you are the kind of woman who can get past this.....I am sorry Aeh but it will take time. Give yourself that time. Continue to talk to your H. Be honest with yourself and be honest with your H.

 

The pain will fade. Just give yourself time to heal.