Hysterical Bonding- A Phase ?

[Dexter Morgan]

This is a bunch-a-hooie!!! Dex you should know by now after posting as long as you have that PEOPLE DO & CAN CHANGE!

 

on the surface maybe.

 

 

Just because a thought pops in your head.....does not mean you act on it. Sheesh.

 

well...sheesh...I think I already agreed with that point...still doesn't mean I want someone that has fond memories of an affair partner.

 

 

Just because someone wants to eat a gallon of ice cream doesn't mean they go out & do it!!!

 

again...duh...you don't read much. I already conceded that point.

 

 

This topic has been discussed here. Just because you THINK about something does not mean you act on it.

 

duh again

 

 

Men that may have never cheated on their wives & are pure as the driven snow (such as yourself) perhaps look at porn from time to time & daydream & wonder what it would be like. Then the thought passes - they don't act on it. Does that mean they are damaged goods too??

 

nope....i already explained that whatever someone thinks of someone that they had not crossed the line with is one thing.....fond memories of someone you actually f#cked while committed to another person are another.

 

 

You're always looking for a dig aren'tcha dex?

 

just like you are always looking at any way to defend a cheater....birds of a feather.....

[NOTSURE7]

Quote:

yes if i didnt face a consequence and i didnt try to find the happiness i need within my m then there is a good chance i would have continued to cheat but i chose a different route because i no longer wanted to be a cheater and live my life as a lie

and you have said in past posts that you hope that, even in the face of telling your wife, that you can keep yourself from cheating.

 

ok so again i dont recall ever using the word i hope and the fact you are using it against me but yet cannot show me where i said it makes it irrelevant.

[confusedinkansas]

on the surface maybe.

 

 

just like you are always looking at any way to defend a cheater....birds of a feather.....

 

You don't believe or have much faith in people, do you?

 

Birds of a feather may very well flock together.....because we are no where near as bad as you would like to make us out to be.:cool:

[NOTSURE7]

on the surface maybe.

 

 

 

 

well...sheesh...I think I already agreed with that point...still doesn't mean I want someone that has fond memories of an affair partner.

 

 

 

 

again...duh...you don't read much. I already conceded that point.

 

 

 

 

duh again

 

 

 

 

nope....i already explained that whatever someone thinks of someone that they had not crossed the line with is one thing.....fond memories of someone you actually f#cked while committed to another person are another.

 

 

 

 

just like you are always looking at any way to defend a cheater....birds of a feather.....

 

dex- a change is a change,you answer everything with the same "well if they have fond memories of someone then they will always be a cheater" statement, people can still have memories and make a change, your rational is ridiculous and using the statement to refute everything someone says makes no sense.. but again you have been cheated on in the past so your thinking of people who cheat will always be clouded by what was done to you.

 

is your past that squeaky clean dex?..if you shoplifted something as a kid, does that mean your always a thief? if you told a story to your parents or maybe a lie to your spouse in the past, are you always a liar? if you cheated on a test in school are you always a cheater?, the answers are of course no, because people can change, the memories may still be there but if you dont ever act on them or hurt another with your actions, guess what , you have changed..

 

i also take offense to your saying an alcohlic is always an alcoholic, if a person who has a disease such as alcholism and abuses alcohol but then one day hurts someone or themselves and decides they are going to change and fight the disease and they succesfully do so and never hurt anyone or themselves again and drink never touches there lips again then guess what dex, they have changed, they may have fond memories of the bottle but that dosent mean they are going to drink again,you thinking on this is so skewed.

 

you can qoute me all you want and tell me i said this and that, but the bottom line is i know i can and will change and have begun to change already since the cloud and fog and intensity of my A is behind me, i have alot of good hard work ahead but i welcome the challenge of living a clean honest life and never ever cheating again...

 

so you can rant all you want and say once a cheater always a cheater because i certainly will not let someone who cant open their minds and beleive that people have the ability to change deter me.

 

maybe it didnt work for you but people are different in this life and with a will and a determintaion i beleive anyone can make a change.

[confusedinkansas]

dex- a change is a change,you answer everything with the same "well if they have fond memories of someone then they will always be a cheater" statement, people can still have memories and make a change, your rational is ridiculous and using the statement to refute everything someone says makes no sense.. but again you have been cheated on in the past so your thinking of people who cheat will always be clouded by what was done to you.

 

is your past that squeaky clean dex?..if you shoplifted something as a kid, does that mean your always a thief? if you told a story to your parents or maybe a lie to your spouse in the past, are you always a liar? if you cheated on a test in school are you always a cheater?, the answers are of course no, because people can change, the memories may still be there but if you dont ever act on them or hurt another with your actions, guess what , you have changed..

 

i also take offense to your saying an alcohlic is always an alcoholic, if a person who has a disease such as alcholism and abuses alcohol but then one day hurts someone or themselves and decides they are going to change and fight the disease and they succesfully do so and never hurt anyone or themselves again and drink never touches there lips again then guess what dex, they have changed, they may have fond memories of the bottle but that dosent mean they are going to drink again,you thinking on this is so skewed.

 

you can qoute me all you want and tell me i said this and that, but the bottom line is i know i can and will change and have begun to change already since the cloud and fog and intensity of my A is behind me, i have alot of good hard work ahead but i welcome the challenge of living a clean honest life and never ever cheating again...

 

so you can rant all you want and say once a cheater always a cheater because i certainly will not let someone who cant open their minds and beleive that people have the ability to change deter me.

 

maybe it didnt work for you but people are different in this life and with a will and a determintaion i beleive anyone can make a change.

 

I know this isn't necessary ~ But, NS You get a standing - O for that. AMEN Brothah - Amen!!! That was eloquently put.

 

But then again.....We Are Birds Of A Feather, Ain't We;)

[Snowflower]

NS7, like I think I've told you before...I like your honesty here.

 

There are very few MM/WH who post on any of these forums. I don't know why this is...perhaps men who get caught up in affairs don't feel the need to discuss it like we women do. Rather, most men who post on these forums are usually BH's or FBH...so I like and appreciate your perspective, NS7. While you don't sound all that similar to my FWH, at least through reading your posts I can understand the mindset of a husband involved in an EMA.

 

You have certainly taken a bashing here by many of the posters at one time or another during your threads and you have responded without defensiveness and with grace. This says something about you. Most people (myself included at times) respond defensively when it is pointed out to them that they have done wrong. It is quite common and pretty much human nature. You, on the other hand, have hung in there and really tried to explain yourself...sometimes over and over.

 

Because you continue to be brutally honest here (unless you are giving us a total snowjob-somehow I don't think so), I think your marriage stands a chance and I do think people can change. My husband changed for the better after he confessed his affair and we eventually reconciled. He was a good guy before and now he is a great guy and husband. So NS7, there is hope and if you genuinely want to make these changes in your life-and I think you do-then who is to say anything different.

[NOTSURE7]

NS7, like I think I've told you before...I like your honesty here.

 

There are very few MM/WH who post on any of these forums. I don't know why this is...perhaps men who get caught up in affairs don't feel the need to discuss it like we women do. Rather, most men who post on these forums are usually BH's or FBH...so I like and appreciate your perspective, NS7. While you don't sound all that similar to my FWH, at least through reading your posts I can understand the mindset of a husband involved in an EMA.

 

You have certainly taken a bashing here by many of the posters at one time or another during your threads and you have responded without defensiveness and with grace. This says something about you. Most people (myself included at times) respond defensively when it is pointed out to them that they have done wrong. It is quite common and pretty much human nature. You, on the other hand, have hung in there and really tried to explain yourself...sometimes over and over.

 

Because you continue to be brutally honest here (unless you are giving us a total snowjob-somehow I don't think so), I think your marriage stands a chance and I do think people can change. My husband changed for the better after he confessed his affair and we eventually reconciled. He was a good guy before and now he is a great guy and husband. So NS7, there is hope and if you genuinely want to make these changes in your life-and I think you do-then who is to say anything different.

 

your h is proof of exactly my point, people can change and i beleive when people face consequences and see what they have done and are truly remourseful and have a determination to change then they can and will change..

 

thanks snowflower i appreciate it and i look forward to the day my W can say the same thing about me.

[Athena]

because i no longer wanted to be a cheater and live my life as a lie...so to be clear, i dont like cheating at all..i made a decision to cheat and i am guilty of it but i do not like it one bit and in no way do i think its right.

 

Would you care to hazard a guess as to why my H continually has affairs? Each time I find out about an affair/or 2 or 3 at a time, he swears he doesn't like cheating, the sex isn't that great, he likes the admiration, the 'thrill of the chase' etc, but doesn't like to lie, or hurt me, blah blah blah -- till next Affair.

[PhoenixRise]

I think people CAN change if they want to, otherwise what is the point? Any person with any negative characteristic is doomed to stay that way forever? I don't think so.

 

I think that cheating does inflict a different kind of pain than some other offences because it often involves manipulating an innocent party into NOT believing what they see is happening.

 

However

 

People can and do change for the better if they want to bad enough.

 

I don't understand why some are so offended by you saying it will be hard to change. I don't remember seeing you say it would be hard to love your wife, just that it would be hard to change.

 

It seems to me, that changing any longterm pattern (especially one that in some ways you DID benefit from) IS hard to do.

 

I would be more concerned if Notsure was here saying "Hey ya"ll I'm cured. No more cheating. Mind over matter. This is a snap".

[pkn06002]

NS7 you are FAR from out of the "fog". I thought the same types of things when I was only a few weeks/months out. Believe me you will really know what out of the "fog" is like around 6 months.

 

See that is the problem I have with a lot of what you are posting. You are claiming ideas that I could support 4-5 months down the road but at 3 weeks past D-day, you are rushing things. Don't be so sure of your decisions and thinking at this point.

[Dexter Morgan]

 

You don't believe or have much faith in people, do you?

 

people in general, yes....cheaters...no.

[Dexter Morgan]

dex- a change is a change,you answer everything with the same "well if they have fond memories of someone then they will always be a cheater" statement

 

uh, no I didn't say that. While I may say once a cheater always a cheater, it has nothing to do with recurring fond memories of the affair parnter.

 

I said I simply don't want someone that is going to have those memories.

 

Then again, I'm not going to be with someone that cheated on me.

 

 

is your past that squeaky clean dex?

 

as far as cheating, yes. other stuff...nah, perhaps not. stole a piece of gum when I was about 8, lied to my mom so as not to get spanked...ya know...run of the mill stuff.

 

but as an adult, yes, squeaky clean with regards to cheating and being a party to betraying someone.

 

 

 

..if you shoplifted something as a kid, does that mean your always a thief? if you told a story to your parents or maybe a lie to your spouse in the past, are you always a liar? if you cheated on a test in school are you always a cheater?, the answers are of course no

 

first its no because I was a kid.

 

Second...we are talking about cheating here aren't we?

 

 

 

i also take offense to your saying an alcohlic is always an alcoholic

 

uh, talk to an alcoholic....they will tell you that even though they kicked the habit, they themselves will tell you that they are still alcoholics.

 

 

so you can rant all you want and say once a cheater always a cheater because i certainly will not let someone who cant open their minds and beleive that people have the ability to change deter me.

 

have at it...good luck. just like anyone I ever find myself with...if they cheat and say they can change.....well good for them...I hope they can make good on that promise....I just won't be around waiting to see what the outcome is.

[Dexter Morgan]

I know this isn't necessary ~ But, NS You get a standing - O for that. AMEN Brothah - Amen!!! That was eloquently put.

 

But then again.....We Are Birds Of A Feather, Ain't We;)

 

and maybe we can remember what you said. your husband had an emotional affair, but didn't physically cheat.

 

Then you go out and actually boff another man. Your husband forgave you.

 

But you said before that if you now ever found out that your husband made, as you'd like to call it, a "mistake", and ended up having sex with another woman, that you wouldn't forgive him. So you expect him to forgive you for a physical affair, but you wouldn't forgive him...hmmmm.....interesting. Ya, and I know your reason that you 2 are in a different place now....ya...convenient for you.

 

so you wouldn't forgive him for the same thing you yourself did.

 

Why not...I thought you have the mindset that people can change and that he should be given a chance and not "take the easy way out"?

 

Seems you don't like to adhere to your own principles.

[confusedinkansas]

and maybe we can remember what you said. your husband had an emotional affair, but didn't physically cheat.

 

Then you go out and actually boff another man. Your husband forgave you.

 

But you said before that if you now ever found out that your husband made, as you'd like to call it, a "mistake", and ended up having sex with another woman, that you wouldn't forgive him. So you expect him to forgive you for a physical affair, but you wouldn't forgive him...hmmmm.....interesting. Ya, and I know your reason that you 2 are in a different place now....ya...convenient for you.

 

so you wouldn't forgive him for the same thing you yourself did.

 

Why not...I thought you have the mindset that people can change and that he should be given a chance and not "take the easy way out"?

 

Seems you don't like to adhere to your own principles.

 

My goodness we are grasping aren't we?

Has nothing to do with my "principles".....You don't know me nor do you know the whole story on my situation or how it came to be the way it is today. No point in going into it cuz this thread is not about me.

Although I do think what NS said to you is spot on!

[Dexter Morgan]

My goodness we are grasping aren't we?

 

no grasping to it...for all your principles on that cheaters can change and one shouldn't just take the easy way out without trying to repair a damaged marriage....you yourself told this forum that you would leave your husband if you ever found out he had a physical affair.....the same thing that YOU did. THAT is hypocrisy and negates anything you just said about people changing.

 

 

Has nothing to do with my "principles".....You don't know me nor do you know the whole story on my situation or how it came to be the way it is today.

 

it doesn't matter, you physically cheated on your husband, he has not, but if he does....he won't get the same consideration and forgiveness from YOU that he gave to you. you said this yourself in this forum.

 

 

 

No point in going into it cuz this thread is not about me.

 

true, but you have nothing to say about cheaters changing, forgiveness, or anything of the sort since you already made it clear that you would not give out the same consideration.

[confusedinkansas]

true, but you have nothing to say about cheaters changing, forgiveness, or anything of the sort since you already made it clear that you would not give out the same consideration.

 

And - One more time - because apparently you aren't comprehending what you are reading.....You don't know my life, nor where I am, or where my husband & I have come FROM. You are in no position to preach ~

Just as I don't know your situation - that apparently is very NEW & you are still very RAW about........You don't know mine.

 

Just for the record; Because I'm NOT in that situation right now.... (where my husband IS or HAS Cheated-that I am aware of) Sometimes we do pop off & say things that if put in the actual situation, we may not react the way we think we would. If you'd have asked me 29 years ago if I would ever cheat on my husband the answer would be HELL NO! Never.....that's not me. But - Lo & Behold....thru the course of time & events in my marriage - I DID.

 

Let me ask you this Dex....Do you archive every conversation here that you're involved in just so that you can hold every word we say over our heads?

SO...Please get off my back - this isn't my thread -

[NOTSURE7]

Would you care to hazard a guess as to why my H continually has affairs? Each time I find out about an affair/or 2 or 3 at a time, he swears he doesn't like cheating, the sex isn't that great, he likes the admiration, the 'thrill of the chase' etc, but doesn't like to lie, or hurt me, blah blah blah -- till next Affair.

 

i cant guess because everyone is different and no 2 situations are the same.i am not saying these things to my w as a way of appeasing her, these are things i feel inside.

[NOTSURE7]

I think people CAN change if they want to, otherwise what is the point? Any person with any negative characteristic is doomed to stay that way forever? I don't think so.

 

I think that cheating does inflict a different kind of pain than some other offences because it often involves manipulating an innocent party into NOT believing what they see is happening.

 

However

 

People can and do change for the better if they want to bad enough.

 

I don't understand why some are so offended by you saying it will be hard to change. I don't remember seeing you say it would be hard to love your wife, just that it would be hard to change.

 

It seems to me, that changing any longterm pattern (especially one that in some ways you DID benefit from) IS hard to do.

 

I would be more concerned if Notsure was here saying "Hey ya"ll I'm cured. No more cheating. Mind over matter. This is a snap".

 

i have wondered the same thing,when a person does something for so long it becomes habit so no matter what change is difficult... if someone worked at the same job for 11 years and then decided to make a change, wouldnt it be hard for them to make that change?, so its no different and i often wonder why i have to defend that.

[NOTSURE7]

NS7 you are FAR from out of the "fog". I thought the same types of things when I was only a few weeks/months out. Believe me you will really know what out of the "fog" is like around 6 months.

 

See that is the problem I have with a lot of what you are posting. You are claiming ideas that I could support 4-5 months down the road but at 3 weeks past D-day, you are rushing things. Don't be so sure of your decisions and thinking at this point.

 

i just dont feel in a fog anymore, thats all i am saying...i know that everyone thinks the fog has to last a certain amount of time but to be honest right now i dont feel that i am in a fog, i only type what i feel now.

[NOTSURE7]

uh, no I didn't say that. While I may say once a cheater always a cheater, it has nothing to do with recurring fond memories of the affair parnter.

 

I said I simply don't want someone that is going to have those memories.

 

Then again, I'm not going to be with someone that cheated on me.

 

 

 

 

as far as cheating, yes. other stuff...nah, perhaps not. stole a piece of gum when I was about 8, lied to my mom so as not to get spanked...ya know...run of the mill stuff.

 

but as an adult, yes, squeaky clean with regards to cheating and being a party to betraying someone.

 

 

 

 

 

first its no because I was a kid.

 

Second...we are talking about cheating here aren't we?

 

 

 

 

 

uh, talk to an alcoholic....they will tell you that even though they kicked the habit, they themselves will tell you that they are still alcoholics.

 

 

 

 

have at it...good luck. just like anyone I ever find myself with...if they cheat and say they can change.....well good for them...I hope they can make good on that promise....I just won't be around waiting to see what the outcome is.

 

yes we are talking about cheating but the comparisons i made have validity to the fact that you are labeling and if your thought is that someone cannot change then a cheater is the same as a liar or a thief etc etc..

 

you are close minded dex and it certainly is your perrogative but just at least admit your biased because you were hurt in the past and really cannot give constructive advice because you are only one sided.

[NOTSURE7]

And - One more time - because apparently you aren't comprehending what you are reading.....You don't know my life, nor where I am, or where my husband & I have come FROM. You are in no position to preach ~

Just as I don't know your situation - that apparently is very NEW & you are still very RAW about........You don't know mine.

 

Just for the record; Because I'm NOT in that situation right now.... (where my husband IS or HAS Cheated-that I am aware of) Sometimes we do pop off & say things that if put in the actual situation, we may not react the way we think we would. If you'd have asked me 29 years ago if I would ever cheat on my husband the answer would be HELL NO! Never.....that's not me. But - Lo & Behold....thru the course of time & events in my marriage - I DID.

 

Let me ask you this Dex....Do you archive every conversation here that you're involved in just so that you can hold every word we say over our heads?

SO...Please get off my back - this isn't my thread -

 

confused- dont waste your time defending yourself here, you know your story,you know your marriage and you know how you live each and every day..do you really care what dex thinks?, he is giving one sided advice only because he was hurt in the past, so there is zero chance he can offer you any advice or open his mind to the fact that people who cheat can change.

[pkn06002]

i just dont feel in a fog anymore, thats all i am saying...i know that everyone thinks the fog has to last a certain amount of time but to be honest right now i dont feel that i am in a fog, i only type what i feel now.

 

I felt the same way about the "fog", trust me you are still in it. You will feel differently 6 months from now let alone a year on. I also did not believe people but they were right.

 

I understand what you are typing, I just say caution because you are just starting out on this road.

[confusedinkansas]

confused- dont waste your time defending yourself here, you know your story,you know your marriage and you know how you live each and every day..do you really care what dex thinks?

 

Excellent point & NO I don't care what he thinks. Silly of me to defend myself to him. I think he likes to pick at certain posters for whatever reason:rolleyes:

******************

 

For what it's worth.......NS You sound WAY better in your posts now than you did a month+ ago. While the road is a bumpy one - You seem to be on the right track & focused towards a goal. Good for you!

 

How about an update on your wife's 'frame of mind' at this point in the situation.

 

Do keep in mind though what PKN & what I've said. Once the dust settles..........Just be prepared for it.

[NOTSURE7]

I felt the same way about the "fog", trust me you are still in it. You will feel differently 6 months from now let alone a year on. I also did not believe people but they were right.

 

I understand what you are typing, I just say caution because you are just starting out on this road.

\

 

fair enough, i guess i cant know what 6 months from now will bring but as of right now i do not feel like i am in any fog...

[NOTSURE7]

Excellent point & NO I don't care what he thinks. Silly of me to defend myself to him. I think he likes to pick at certain posters for whatever reason:rolleyes:

******************

 

For what it's worth.......NS You sound WAY better in your posts now than you did a month+ ago. While the road is a bumpy one - You seem to be on the right track & focused towards a goal. Good for you!

 

How about an update on your wife's 'frame of mind' at this point in the situation.

 

Do keep in mind though what PKN & what I've said. Once the dust settles..........Just be prepared for it.

 

I will keep it in mind...

 

Right now her frame of mind is the same as any bs i would assume,she is sad,hurt,trying to comprehend it all,feeling like her life was taken away from her but she is coping and begiining the stages of working through it all..

 

But she is talking and we are having very nice moments through it all,we talk and talk and work together so she can understand me and what went wrong and how we can make it better in the future, she wants to be there for me and help me to make the neccesary changes notably honest and clean living.so her frame of mind is certainly that she wants the Marriage but understands it has to be a marriage worth wanting and one that she deserves.. thats were my hard work comes in.

 

we had our first mc last night, that was a bit rough but it was good to see things coming out and see my w really speaking her mind.the mc was excelllent and fair and we are both going back for ic with the mc and then we will go back in together next week.