Hysterical Bonding- A Phase ?

[Dexter Morgan]

Let me ask you this Dex....Do you archive every conversation here that you're involved in just so that you can hold every word we say over our heads?

 

nope, I just have a good memory and remember well when someone is a hypocrite:)

[Dexter Morgan]

Excellent point & NO I don't care what he thinks.

 

then dont respond:)

 

 

Silly of me to defend myself to him. I think he likes to pick at certain posters for whatever reason:rolleyes:

******************

 

like you didn't pick on my posts when I wasn't even talking to you....practice what you preach.

[confusedinkansas]

then dont respond:)

 

like you didn't pick on my posts when I wasn't even talking to you....practice what you preach.

 

I was wondering what happened to you.......Missed Ya!!

[Dexter Morgan]

I was wondering what happened to you.......Missed Ya!!

 

vacation....kids had a blast.

[taylor]

i have wondered the same thing,when a person does something for so long it becomes habit so no matter what change is difficult... if someone worked at the same job for 11 years and then decided to make a change, wouldnt it be hard for them to make that change?, so its no different and i often wonder why i have to defend that.

 

If your wife went out and had a one night stand with your boss, then F'ed a coworker of hers for a couple months, and then had a 2 year sexual affair with your best friend...

 

Would you describe your wife's cheating behavior as a HABIT?

 

Would you completely understand how hard it would be for her to stop cheating on you since she's been doing it for so long and it's become such a HABIT?

 

You minimize/trivialize/excuse your serial cheating by calling it simply a HABIT. It's not a habit...like chewing with your mouth open or biting your fingernails.

 

Calling serial cheating a HABIT is like calling it a HABIT when a man beats his wife on a regular basis.

 

What would you say to a man who said, "I love my wife but I've been beating her for so many years now it's become HABIT and it's going to be hard for me to stop."???

 

What would you say to a serial murderer who said, "I killed three people. It's become a habit. It's going to be hard for me to change."????

 

If you love your wife...truly love her....and you have made a decision to re-commit to your marriage..it should NOT be difficult to stay faithful, ie., not cheat. And the reasons why it should not be difficult should be very clear to you by now..since you are out of the fog..as you say.

 

Reasons why it shoud not be difficult to remain faithful:

 

1. You realize you truly do love your wife.

2. You realize cheating does not solve problems, but creates them.

3. You realize and FEEL the total devastation your cheating has caused the one person you love the most in this world.

4. You realize the only viable choices in an unhappy marriage are reconciliation (with recovery) or divorce.

 

The hard work in recovery is NOT keeping your pants zipped...the hard work in recovery is building a marriage that is satisfying to both partners.

 

And if, despite all the hard work, the marriage NEVER becomes satisfying, ...the decision to NOT CHEAT still stands...and should not be difficult to honor IF you love your wife. You are well aware that if you love your wife, the better choice to make in an unsatisfying marriage is DIVORCE, not INFIDELITY.

 

If the fog is truly lifted, all of this should be crystal clear to you.

[confusedinkansas]

Reasons why it shoud not be difficult to remain faithful:

 

1. You realize you truly do love your wife.

2. You realize cheating does not solve problems, but creates them.

3. You realize and FEEL the total devastation your cheating has caused the one person you love the most in this world.

4. You realize the only viable choices in an unhappy marriage are reconciliation (with recovery) or divorce.

 

This is all very good advice for someone to remain faithful.......BUT....IF you have never cheated you aren't aware of any of these things. Those of us who have been there / done that ... We know all of this NOW! At the time we didn't. We were too involved with our own needs to realize the damage that it may cause.

 

I still know OF some men out there that believe 100% that an affair would solve ALL of their marital issues. They don't intend to leave their families EVER. They just want excitement..

These are not necessarily friends of mine - so it's not my place to say "Hey, Bud...You're SOOO wrong"...!!

[taylor]

This is all very good advice for someone to remain faithful.......BUT....IF you have never cheated you aren't aware of any of these things. Those of us who have been there / done that ... We know all of this NOW! At the time we didn't. We were too involved with our own needs to realize the damage that it may cause.

 

But NS has cheated. In fact, many times with multiple partners. He says he is over the OW, the fog has lifted, he is re-committed to his wife, and he is in recovery mode. IF all of this is true, it should not be difficult to remain faithful. Yes, perhaps difficult to recover an unhappy marriage...but NOT difficult to remain faithful. There's a difference here.

 

You can count me in as "one of those..who have been there/done that." I am 15 months post D-day and our marriage is in recovery.

 

Staying faithful has been EASY. Recovering the marriage, working on marital issues the right way...much more difficult.

[NOTSURE7]

But NS has cheated. In fact, many times with multiple partners. He says he is over the OW, the fog has lifted, he is re-committed to his wife, and he is in recovery mode. IF all of this is true, it should not be difficult to remain faithful. Yes, perhaps difficult to recover an unhappy marriage...but NOT difficult to remain faithful. There's a difference here.

 

You can count me in as "one of those..who have been there/done that." I am 15 months post D-day and our marriage is in recovery.

 

Staying faithful has been EASY. Recovering the marriage, working on marital issues the right way...much more difficult.

 

one month post dday i am having no problem with staying faithful and i know i will remain faithful forever..but you are right working on the marital issues is very difficult especially not long after dday..

[taylor]

one month post dday i am having no problem with staying faithful and i know i will remain faithful forever..

 

IF this is true, then stop saying how difficult it's going to be to "break" your cheating "HABIT".

 

It's not a habit...and refraining from cheating should be EASY now that you know what you know.

 

It's ludicrous for any of us to speculate on "forever." Take one day at a time with honorable goals in mind. It's the best you, or any of us, can expect to do.

[whichwayisup]

I think he's using the wrong words..Maybe replace 'habit' with addiction of the feelings that an affair creates. That dynamic and intensity is what he may have meant..?

[taylor]

working on the marital issues is very difficult especially not long after dday..

 

I think everyone's marital recovery looks a little different.

 

I know in my case, working purely on marital issues..having the ability to focus soley on marital issues, didn't even begin until 6 months post D-day.

 

For the first 6 months post D-day, focus was on the affair, not the marital issues...damage control, emotional stability, untangling the confusion.

 

It was only after we were able to clear the affair rubble, that we were able to roll up our sleeves, take a good, hard, objective look at our marriage, define issues and problems, brainstorm solutions, and implement changes that had a chance of making a positive impact on the state of our marriage.

 

Everyone has their own timeline.

[NOTSURE7]

I think everyone's marital recovery looks a little different.

 

I know in my case, working purely on marital issues..having the ability to focus soley on marital issues, didn't even begin until 6 months post D-day.

 

For the first 6 months post D-day, focus was on the affair, not the marital issues...damage control, emotional stability, untangling the confusion.

 

It was only after we were able to clear the affair rubble, that we were able to roll up our sleeves, take a good, hard, objective look at our marriage, define issues and problems, brainstorm solutions, and implement changes that had a chance of making a positive impact on the state of our marriage.

 

Everyone has their own timeline.

 

i definetely agree, for instance we had a great weekend and then this morning she hit me with all affair questions and the mood turned angry and sad and although it seemed like we had made good progress it was a false sense in that its all there but its just a matter of when it will come out.....

 

we have talked about marital issues but i agree that until all of the affair rubble is passed you really cant make any lasting changes..

 

we are doing everything right and i know time is the only thing that will help...

[taylor]

I think he's using the wrong words..Maybe replace 'habit' with addiction of the feelings that an affair creates. That dynamic and intensity is what he may have meant..?

 

I understand the "addiction" when in the throes of an affair..the "can't get enough of that person"...the I "need" that person. All people who are "in love" get that feeling...want that "high."

 

But NS is not in an affair now. He isn't even in withdrawal. He isn't longing for the OW or desparate to get a "fix" from her.

 

No addiction here.

 

I still think NS is a man who doesn't love his wife enough, but stays with her because he knows he might not ever find another woman that loves him as much as she does. Only time will tell.

[NOTSURE7]

I understand the "addiction" when in the throes of an affair..the "can't get enough of that person"...the I "need" that person. All people who are "in love" get that feeling...want that "high."

 

But NS is not in an affair now. He isn't even in withdrawal. He isn't longing for the OW or desparate to get a "fix" from her.

 

No addiction here.

 

I still think NS is a man who doesn't love his wife enough, but stays with her because he knows he might not ever find another woman that loves him as much as she does. Only time will tell.

 

clearly you are correct, my actions in the past do not constitute love, but post dday i am finding that love with my w..its of course very difficult post dday as i have hurt her in unimaginable ways, but i am patient and i know that we will be stronger...

[taylor]

post dday i am finding that love with my w.

 

This is good to hear, NS.

 

Do you think you once had that kind of love and it got lost along the way?

 

Or do you think you are looking at your wife with different eyes for the first time?

 

i know that we will be stronger...

 

This is the hope of all who are in recovery. A strong marriage is the best defense against infidelity.

[stuckinoz]

Do you think you once had that kind of love and it got lost along the way?

 

Or do you think you are looking at your wife with different eyes for the first time?

 

I know you're asking the OP this question - But don't you think this is how many many feel after either being found out or spill the beans themselves after an affair? (IF they stay with their spouse that is)

[taylor]

I know you're asking the OP this question - But don't you think this is how many many feel after either being found out or spill the beans themselves after an affair? (IF they stay with their spouse that is)

 

Yes, I do, stuckinoz.

 

In my own case, it was a matter of finding love that got lost along the way. I remember well being so in love with my husband that he took my breath away...just the sight of him. I remember when my only goal was to make him happy..and I worried constantly about whether I was making him happy..whether I was good enough for him. He was the reason for everything I did. He was the meaning in my life..my world.

 

Before the affair, I wondered where all that went. I wondered if we had changed too much..hurt each other too much, perhaps, to ever get that back. We tried half-heartedly, but I think we were too busy convincing ourselves and each other that everything was OK..we were OK...and too afraid to admit that something was wrong...that we were way off course to really face the bad stuff head on.

 

My husband withdrew emotionally and poured himself into his job. I had an EA.

 

Not sure this is the case with NS. In his earlier posts he suggests he never had that kind of love with his wife. If that is the case, how do you rediscover "something" that may have never been there in the first place...or was it?

[NOTSURE7]

This is good to hear, NS.

 

Do you think you once had that kind of love and it got lost along the way?

 

Or do you think you are looking at your wife with different eyes for the first time?

 

 

 

This is the hope of all who are in recovery. A strong marriage is the best defense against infidelity.

 

i think its a bit of both to be honest...i beleive we once had that type of love and admittedly it got lost along the way, i beleive that i created in my mind a more dire situation than it really was to justify my actions..

 

and also i am now looking at my wife with a new set of eyes and now that i have confessed and also expressed many of the ways i beleive we lost eachother it is truly amazing to me that she is so very capable of loving the real me..

 

unfortunately, i never spoke to her and never gave her the chance and i am paying dearly for that now..

[NOTSURE7]

Yes, I do, stuckinoz.

 

In my own case, it was a matter of finding love that got lost along the way. I remember well being so in love with my husband that he took my breath away...just the sight of him. I remember when my only goal was to make him happy..and I worried constantly about whether I was making him happy..whether I was good enough for him. He was the reason for everything I did. He was the meaning in my life..my world.

 

Before the affair, I wondered where all that went. I wondered if we had changed too much..hurt each other too much, perhaps, to ever get that back. We tried half-heartedly, but I think we were too busy convincing ourselves and each other that everything was OK..we were OK...and too afraid to admit that something was wrong...that we were way off course to really face the bad stuff head on.

 

My husband withdrew emotionally and poured himself into his job. I had an EA.

 

Not sure this is the case with NS. In his earlier posts he suggests he never had that kind of love with his wife. If that is the case, how do you rediscover "something" that may have never been there in the first place...or was it?

 

i know i stated that in earlier posts but again i really see now that i was justifying my actions and that we have alot of love and we got lost along the way, but instead of handling it correctly i went out and did selfish things.

[stuckinoz]

How is your wife today? I noticed that last Monday triggered some things - per your posts & it is Monday again afterall.

(Keeps coming whether we want it to or not - UGH!!)

[NOTSURE7]

How is your wife today? I noticed that last Monday triggered some things - per your posts & it is Monday again afterall.

(Keeps coming whether we want it to or not - UGH!!)

 

thanks for asking..

 

same scenario, i took the day off and we went away on vacation on friday and we had a nice trip with the kids,things were pretty normal,we laughed,held hands,had a good time..we came home on sunday and sunday was the same,no real questions,not much talking about it and for the most part no crying.we just enjoyed eachother.

 

Then this morning was ok and i left for work and then bam mid morning she called me and it was like we were back to square 1 again,questions,accusations,crying,anger....

 

so i guess the pattern is correct and when i am around and making her feel more secure and talking and holding her, things are ok, when i say they are ok i know its all there and that she is thinking non stop about it but it feels ok for the moments..

 

like my ic and mc told me i have to be very patient, i have been there for her every step of the way and i beleive that it will all pay off in the long run.

 

this is a long hard battle and i only wish i would have thought about her and how devastated she would be before living my selfish existence...

 

but thats the past and i can only focu on today and the future...

[aeh]

Wow, NS, if I didn't know better, I would still think you were my H. Except he didn't have multiple affairs. But, we did just go away this weekend, too! Same thing, had a great time, both feel very much in love, back to the way we used to be 15 years ago when we got married. I did have a few hard moments on the trip--would think of something randomly and stew oe get teary or ask a question and dig my fingernails into my hands upon waiting to hear the painful answer, but for the most part, had a wonderful getaway. Mondays are hard for me, too.

 

I must admit it has certainly helped my battered and bruised ego that I have received a lot of extra male attention lately and my husband has witnesses this now time and again, so as silly as it sounds,it makes me feel good. I think I had stopped thinking of myself as a sexual being, in a lot of ways. Just had focused on being a good mother and wife, keeping a beautiful home, volunteering in the community, etc. Of course, the whole hysterical bonding thing kind of reawakened this long dormant side to myself and I thought, "What the heck have I been doing all these years? Why did I shut this down?" I am back to noticing men in general. I think I had forgotten they had existed. LOL. Maybe because initially after D-Day I would look around at other men and think, "Wow, would he have done this to me?" I also realize how completely "unaffectionate" we had become. Sitting on separate sofas when we were home, not passionately kissing, the same routine sex (when we did have it, which wasn't very much). Again, I am not condoning, excusing my husband's disgusting actions by engaging in the affair...but just realizing how we were just shadows of our former selves.

 

Also, I think it helps that my husband has de-mystified the affair a bit for me--revealed some things that were cracks in the relationship. So I think anything you can do NS to expose the things that weren't perfect in the A, can help your w. Don't make anything up, by any means, though! I don't think my H even realizes what he has said in passing that made me feel better.

[NOTSURE7]

Wow, NS, if I didn't know better, I would still think you were my H. Except he didn't have multiple affairs. But, we did just go away this weekend, too! Same thing, had a great time, both feel very much in love, back to the way we used to be 15 years ago when we got married. I did have a few hard moments on the trip--would think of something randomly and stew oe get teary or ask a question and dig my fingernails into my hands upon waiting to hear the painful answer, but for the most part, had a wonderful getaway. Mondays are hard for me, too.

 

I must admit it has certainly helped my battered and bruised ego that I have received a lot of extra male attention lately and my husband has witnesses this now time and again, so as silly as it sounds,it makes me feel good. I think I had stopped thinking of myself as a sexual being, in a lot of ways. Just had focused on being a good mother and wife, keeping a beautiful home, volunteering in the community, etc. Of course, the whole hysterical bonding thing kind of reawakened this long dormant side to myself and I thought, "What the heck have I been doing all these years? Why did I shut this down?" I am back to noticing men in general. I think I had forgotten they had existed. LOL. Maybe because initially after D-Day I would look around at other men and think, "Wow, would he have done this to me?" I also realize how completely "unaffectionate" we had become. Sitting on separate sofas when we were home, not passionately kissing, the same routine sex (when we did have it, which wasn't very much). Again, I am not condoning, excusing my husband's disgusting actions by engaging in the affair...but just realizing how we were just shadows of our former selves.

 

Also, I think it helps that my husband has de-mystified the affair a bit for me--revealed some things that were cracks in the relationship. So I think anything you can do NS to expose the things that weren't perfect in the A, can help your w. Don't make anything up, by any means, though! I don't think my H even realizes what he has said in passing that made me feel better.

 

not that it matters but i really only had 1 full blown A,i had a 1 night stand 10 years ago and i did have an ea that went nowhere...

 

yes we seem to be at the same point,which is good in a way as i find it helpful to read the things you are writing..

 

i have de-mystified the A a bit and i have told her of cracks in the A because in hindsight there were many and i know it helps her a bit to hear them but your right its not worth making something up..

 

the hysterical bonding phase as it is called has helped us immensely too, we realize that wow we never made time for eachother,we would never even hold hands or kiss for no reason, so like you say its no excuse for the things i did but it has awakened my w a bit and as a result will make us stronger..

 

she is really trying,but i know its so hard and it hurts so badly, i also hurt for what i have done to her..this is a very dark time but i keep telling myself it will all pay off for us in the long run..

 

mondays seem to be hard for her, when i am home she seems ok,she knows i am there and the fact i have been so open and honest and talk to her whenever she needs too helps also...

 

i noitce you keep mentioning how nice it is to be recognized by other men and your noticing other men more, be careful with that and focus on your h, the last thing you want is too end up doing what he did to you...i know you may say it sounds silly and you never would but a little bit of attention from someone and bam these things can happen quickly..

 

so is there anything you have been doing or telling yourself to help you cope and start to heal and maybe even forgive a bit?, i only ask so that maybe i can suggest these things to my W..

[aeh]

You're right, NS about the noticing other men. It's such a weird world I live in now, I can't believe it. And at this point, I do see how it could all go sideways very quickly. It's amazing how crazy the thoughts are at times. I have been VERY honest with my husband about all these thoughts, probably even more than I should be!! I guess though there is that part of me that is just wanting to feel validated somehow--(and how sad for a woman to feel she has to resort to that!!).

 

As for the coping, I think exposing the things that weren't perfect has been the biggest thing for me because it takes away the "competition" some, or at least makes me feel like she wasn't this perfect person or so amazing, after all. I am not even close to forgiving, even though at one point in the first week or two after I found out I did actually tell him that I forgave him (!!!) but he sees that I clearly have not. And I don't think I am anywhere close to that. Sometimes I do lash out, although I literally could have just been hugging or kissing him but all it takes is me thinking some random thing--seeing a car like hers, hearing the name of the suburb she lives in, etc. Also feeling like I know all of their secrets--what positions they did it in, where, what they said to each other, what they discussed about me, EVERYTHING....that has helped me tremendously...although it is so painful to hear initially. But the feeling like they had these shared secrets is one of the things that bothered me the most.

[NOTSURE7]

You're right, NS about the noticing other men. It's such a weird world I live in now, I can't believe it. And at this point, I do see how it could all go sideways very quickly. It's amazing how crazy the thoughts are at times. I have been VERY honest with my husband about all these thoughts, probably even more than I should be!! I guess though there is that part of me that is just wanting to feel validated somehow--(and how sad for a woman to feel she has to resort to that!!).

 

As for the coping, I think exposing the things that weren't perfect has been the biggest thing for me because it takes away the "competition" some, or at least makes me feel like she wasn't this perfect person or so amazing, after all. I am not even close to forgiving, even though at one point in the first week or two after I found out I did actually tell him that I forgave him (!!!) but he sees that I clearly have not. And I don't think I am anywhere close to that. Sometimes I do lash out, although I literally could have just been hugging or kissing him but all it takes is me thinking some random thing--seeing a car like hers, hearing the name of the suburb she lives in, etc. Also feeling like I know all of their secrets--what positions they did it in, where, what they said to each other, what they discussed about me, EVERYTHING....that has helped me tremendously...although it is so painful to hear initially. But the feeling like they had these shared secrets is one of the things that bothered me the most.

 

me and my w had this exact conversation, she was telling me about a story that her manicurist told her about a woman whos h cheated on her and eventhough she was working on the m ,she fell in love with another man, my w said she could never do that but did see how it could happen..

 

i told her i think what happens is that you feel such hurt form your h that you are thinking that you deserve to be happy and that you didnt deserve this from your h, the one you loved and trusted...,so as a bs you think wow can another man give me what i need and take all this pain away and there in lies the valley of temptation that i personally think you should steer very clear of because if you have made the decision to work on your m and give your h a second chance then you need to focus on that and that only.

 

i dont expect forgiveness anytime soon, i am just working hard to get us into present day and begiining to work on our future,we had a good mc session last night, it really helps but like you say, one minute we could be kissing and the next she is asking questions or angry at something and it all goes downhill from there, there are just so many triggers for her and especially this early on since dday..