Is my profession a turn off?

[Trialbyfire]

We've already been through this re: the gambling thing. As I've pointed out to you several times with several facts and sources, its as much gambling as golf is, and if a semantic term is the only thing you can say in response to that then I think it's clear to the OP what he's doing.

It's gambling as defined by the law.

 

Not only that it's categorically not an addiction. In fact, I think running off for counseling every time you stub your toe is much more addictive and destructive behavior.

You just pulled that crap straight out of your arse, since I never stated that point.

 

Um, I'm 23, I'm a long ways from retirement...

 

You're acting like I'll never make another penny in my life

Right now, you sit at the age that people would be, if they're in post grad. I don't know your education level but you'll have to decide what you're willing to give up, to keep gambling.

 

Say you lose your edge, in 5 years time. All these post-grads will have flooded the market, with jobs under their belts, for their CVs. Where will you be?

[Trialbyfire]

I'm the CTO and part owner.

I'm laughing. So who was denigrating my titles and what I've accomplished in life. Hypocrite.

 

What percentage shareholder are you?

Right now it's about $400K. It wasn't near that when we started.

So the greater the revenue, the more staff, the higher the burn rate. Say your revenue stream slows down or drops 50%. Will you not then start to burn capital?

[Citizen Drawn]

It's gambling as defined by the law.

 

Oh that wasn't a predictable response was it?

 

Tell you what, let me put it another way. You say you enjoy gambling for "pleasure" well good poker players don't actually gamble their just a transfer function to relieve money off of people that don't deserve nor know the value of it.

[Citizen Drawn]

I

Say you lose your edge, in 5 years time. All these post-grads will have flooded the market, with jobs under their belts, for their CVs. Where will you be?

 

Will they? I hear a lot of them are landing mcjobs these days.

[Trialbyfire]

Oh that wasn't a predictable response was it?

 

Tell you what, let me put it another way. You say you enjoy gambling for "pleasure" well good poker players don't actually gamble their just a transfer function to relieve money off of people that don't deserve nor know the value of it.

Whatever...yeah...

 

Btw, your buddy in crime is a CTO!

[Trialbyfire]

Will they? I hear a lot of them are landing mcjobs these days.

Short-term thoughts for a short-term thinker...

[Citizen Drawn]

Whatever...yeah...

 

Btw, your buddy in crime is a CTO!

 

I have a good suggestion. If you want to prove what a gambler the OP is, why don't you take $10K and go and play him at poker? See what happens

[Trialbyfire]

I have a good suggestion. If you want to prove what a gambler the OP is, why don't you take $10K and go and play him at poker? See what happens

Why would I do that? I gamble for pleasure, not e-penis measurements...

[Citizen Drawn]

Short-term thoughts for a short-term thinker...

 

Actually realistic thoughts from someone living in the real world. In case you haven't noticed not only are there less jobs than graduates right now, it's only going to get worse with the prospect of the competition from developing nations in the next decade. Your thinking can be classified as "boom time thinking". You just don't see the bigger picture.

[Citizen Drawn]

Why would I do that? I gamble for pleasure, not e-penis measurements...

 

You can have fun and he can have $10K. Win win!

[tanbark813]

I'm laughing. So who was denigrating my titles and what I've accomplished in life. Hypocrite.

 

Your pompous attitude is what bothers me. My last post was only in response to a direct question.

 

What percentage shareholder are you?

 

25%

 

So the greater the revenue, the more staff, the higher the burn rate. Say your revenue stream slows down or drops 50%. Will you not then start to burn capital?

 

Yes, until we scale back burn rate to stay in the black which, for what we do, doesn't take long.

[39388]

Without any job skills, nothing to put on your CV and only gambling skills with who knows what kind of edge and competition you're going to get and for that matter, how gaming commissions will be reacting in future, for or against, how will you get a job? Working at a convenience store when you're 85 years old, if you're lucky?

I would not enjoy it, but some would have no problem with a job like that in their older years. He's still only 23 years old and $170k is a lot of money to have saved up for that age.

 

He might continue to gamble successfully and if he continues to save he will have much more than 170k saved up.

 

He might not continue to gamble successfully in which case he will need to try something new. This is why he should develop a clear "plan B" while he's still gambling successfully. I'm not so sure he has this yet. Just saying you want to start your own business doesn't seem like enough.

 

There are many jobs other than corporate jobs out there. I could not handle my corporate jobs. I once told the president of a company something becuase my manager and the VP were out of town. I got chewed out by both in an extremely nasty way when they came back. I think I hurt their egos. Some people don't want to deal with that. Maybe he doesn't want to deal with that, unless there is absolutely no other choice.

 

He has his head on his sholders far better than I do from what I see in his posts and my net financial worth is more than 170k, though I'm in my mid 30s.

[Trialbyfire]

tanbark, is your startup an online gaming site?

[tanbark813]

tanbark, is your startup an online gaming site?

 

No.

 

I wish.

[Trialbyfire]

Your pompous attitude is what bothers me. My last post was only in response to a direct question.

That's okay, your man-chip attitude bothers me too.

Yes, until we scale back burn rate to stay in the black which, for what we do, doesn't take long.

Which usually equates to reducing employee salaries or getting rid of employees, since it's the largest portion of your burn rate.

[tanbark813]

Which usually equates to reducing employee salaries or getting rid of employees, since it's the largest portion of your burn rate.

 

You mean there is risk in business??? I thought that only applied to gambling.

 

And again, this is getting off the point I was trying to make earlier: You don't always need a lot of money to start a business.

[Trialbyfire]

You mean there is risk in business??? I thought that only applied to gambling.

 

And again, this is getting off the point I was trying to make earlier: You don't always need a lot of money to start a business.

I said that $170K will get you dick, in reference to an already viable business. This means that the risk factor is far, far lower, than a startup.

 

You need money for your burn rate. You're making the assumption that a start up has a viable product, they can get out to the public in the first year and proper branding, so the public or at least the target demographics, is aware of.

 

Also, you're basically saying your firm was started on $4K. Did you all take your current salary, at the time? Doubt it.

[tanbark813]

I said that $170K will get you dick, in reference to an already viable business. This means that the risk factor is far, far lower, than a startup.

 

You need money for your burn rate. You're making the assumption that a start up has a viable product, they can get out to the public in the first year and proper branding, so the public or at least the target demographics, is aware of.

 

Actually, you're making assumptions that aren't true in every case.

 

Also, you're basically saying your firm was started on $4K. Did you all take your current salary, at the time? Doubt it.

 

I'm saying it was started on $1K ($250 per person). But actually that's not entirely correct since it costs money to register the company. It was $1K in capital and another $1K or so in fees and what not.

 

And if you reread my post you'll see that I clearly stated:

 

It took us about 2 years to build up revenue to the point of being able to pay ourselves

 

The first two years, all the profit was invested back in to the company. Not too dissimilar from building a bankroll, I would imagine. But if we had had $170K to start with, or even less than half that, our ramp up time would have been much, much shorter.

[Trimmer]

You need to ask yourself why my accomplishments, threaten you. When people need to bring another person down, it's due to their own insecurities.

Uh, you mean a little something like this:

I was talking about civil/electrical/other real engineers, not developers.

[Trialbyfire]

Actually, you're making assumptions that aren't true in every case.

How often are they true? More often than not. You assume that an online poker player who's been doing only poker playing, with no job or business expertise, can market a start up?

 

I'm saying it was started on $1K ($250 per person). But actually that's not entirely correct since it costs money to register the company. It was $1K in capital and another $1K or so in fees and what not.

 

And if you reread my post you'll see that I clearly stated:

 

The first two years, all the profit was invested back in to the company. Not too dissimilar from building a bankroll, I would imagine. But if we had had $170K to start with, or even less than half that, our ramp up time would have been much, much shorter.

You obviously had a product or service that people wanted, or possibly the contacts/clients to make it happen.

 

That's why I was in the black from the minute I became self-employed. I already lined up the clients. It's called networking your arse off.

 

Uh, you mean a little something like this:

Definition difference. I see engineers as civil/structural/electrical engineers. The Tech industry and startups have many titles that differ.

[Citizen Drawn]

Uh, you mean a little something like this:

 

That's what drew me into this argument. She argued that you can always get a job if you work hard and network, then when called out on it decided to denigrate that person by saying they're not a "real engineer"

 

Apparently it's all down to definition difference, but TBF we all know what you were implying.

[sb129]

Sb, whatever..

 

I completed the highest level of statistics my university offered , so I fully understand stats.

 

On one hand you start by making your hubby sound like a gambling whiz, then you say "Well it is gambling". My point is I still doubt you know all about his endeavors, and I feel you are missing some info about his success rate. Turning 50 into 1600 3 years in a row through hundreds of bets is quite unbelievable. Perhaps he should write a gambling book.

 

Then you should understand that while the initial investment may have been $150, the total actual investment over the three years was much higher (reinvesting winnings rather than taking them out, enabling you to bet higher each time), which blows your 3200% theory out somewhat.

And you need to stop thinking in averages... its skewing your thinking.

 

The end result was around $5000- but it could just have easily been $0 or $100, point is, he made some considered, conservative decisions, never bet the whole pot at once AND got lucky a couple of times, which in turn enabled him to make bigger bets, leading to bigger wins.

I don't understand why that is such a hard concept to grasp? It wasn't "hundreds of thousands of small bets" it was "small bets leading to bigger bets leading to bigger ones"... so anyway whatever.

 

Of course its gambling, because the return wasn't guaranteed and there were many so variables.

Without those few lucky breaks, it could just have easily been $0, hence the "inconsistency" and lack of "guarantee".

It only takes a couple of big wins to make $50 into $200- then you have more $ to play with....

 

I doubt we will see that kind of activity again to be honest, we are starting a family, and there simply won't be the time to devote to those kind of hobbies.

 

As I said, if you divide the total return into an hourly rate based on the amount of time he spent on it, he is definitely better off keeping his day job and won't be writing a gambling book.

 

 

 

Why do people have to act so cool just because they have a typical, boring office job? Investing in the stock market is a gamble, too.. and no one has anything bad to say about that!

 

Oh, and for those of you that keep saying I will lose all my money and blow my brains out over and over again, OUTSIDE of my bankroll (meaning money that will never go to poker again) I have about 170K saved up in stocks/treasury funds/sep ira/savings. For my age, coming from nothing I think that's enough to pave the way for my future.75+26+

 

Kahn, I think you are doing great. 23 is young- you have a college degree (am I right?) you could do anything from where you are at.

You don't sound like the type to be idle.

 

I have a "respectable" profession, and I was nowhere near as financially sound as you were at 23.

 

 

 

You also cannot force a career or life that guarantees you will never be in the poor house. There is always risk..

 

Damn straight.

 

Yes, I do know how much $170K is, and if you haven't saved a hella lot more than that by the time you've retired, your retirement will be exceedingly...unpleasant...

 

I think to have $170K at the age of 23 is a pretty VERY good starting point for a decent retirement plan, don't you?

 

Most people don't even have that much invested in their retirement plans by the time they are 40.

[sb129]

That's what drew me into this argument. She argued that you can always get a job if you work hard and network, " .

 

Tell that to the many many professionals out there who are currently unemployed...

 

TBF, I do think you have a somewhat rose tinted view of the world at times, especially when it comes to money.

 

You are lucky to be as successful as you are- not everyone is as lucky as you are, I know you have worked hard to get where you are at, but some people work just as hard and never get anywhere near where you are at.

 

Thats just life.

[Trialbyfire]

I think to have $170K at the age of 23 is a pretty VERY good starting point for a decent retirement plan, don't you?

 

Most people don't even have that much invested in their retirement plans by the time they are 40.

I'm not denigrating the amount as much as stating that being a professional gambler, isn't the way to keep $170K for part of your retirement plan. He lives at home so he has no bills beyond the very few he's stated. Real life is going to hit him when he can least afford it, if he remains a professional gambler. His parents won't be around for the rest of his life, to support his gambling occupation.

 

TBF, I do think you have a somewhat rose tinted view of the world at times, especially when it comes to money.

It's my life and I've made it what it is by leveraging off what my parents taught me, by getting the appropriate education to ensure that I was able to get into a lucrative occupation. Seems to me to be the right choices v. rose coloured. I chose a cheater for a husband. I dumped him. He can no longer infest my life as a cheating husband but he still enhances it by being a decent friend and business contact.

 

You are lucky to be as successful as you are- not everyone is as lucky as you are, I know you have worked hard to get where you are at, but some people work just as hard and never get anywhere near where you are at.

 

Thats just life.

I can't help luck. But then, I also believe you create your own opportunities. That's what networking is all about, as long as you've got the background to back it up.

[sb129]

My point was- many people do what you did, and still don't make it.

 

There isn't enough space in the world for everyone to be successful.

 

Good choices, education and hard work aren't always enough.

 

Some good choices can turn out to be very bad ones through factors beyond peoples control.

 

I think some humility wouldn't go amiss here.