Nice guys come last/ There are no nice guys

[sally4sara]

Well men can be selfish jerks too of course.

 

The story of the bankers, fallen from grace and power, and in their hour of need also losing their partners, is telling. Men realise that it's easy to get women along for the ride when the goings good. But the only ones we could truly love and trust are the ones that will be there when it all goes tits up.

 

Use money as bait and that is the kind of fish you catch.

Why are some men - incredibly bad at spotting even the biggest gold diggers?

 

That last bit is for Hkizzle.

[carhill]

Women never remember or notice anything good that you do for them.

Wogs, thanks for keeping the conversation going. I can always count on you for that

 

I'd like to add that, with your assertion in mind, I look for, seek out and validate shining exceptions to that assertion. Wish me well

[Woggle]

Wogs, thanks for keeping the conversation going. I can always count on you for that

 

I'd like to add that, with your assertion in mind, I look for, seek out and validate shining exceptions to that assertion. Wish me well

 

I found one of the exceptions and you might as well but they are only about 5% of the female population so every man won't be so luck.

[boogieboy]

This thread needs top go on the breakups and coping forums as well, could help the men understand why they cant beg for their woman after they were dumped.

[Hkizzle]

why are "nice guy" and "manly man" seen as mutually exclusive? My h is by all accounts a truly nice guy but I assure you, there's NOTHING wimpy/needy/clingy about him.

 

They're not mutually exclusive. But it's convenient to generalize in this case to talk about two general groups rather than all the other subgroups and all possible interactions.

[HsMomma]

And I gotta tell you with all sincere honesty that life is too short and important to engage in that stupid game, in my considered opinion. That said, I'm happy that women will continue to do so, in my absence

 

OP, my 'game' is being my authentic self and dismissing those who do not accept and embrace that self. Being alone and authentic is far superior and more healthy than playing some cat and mouse game with a box. Read my past posts for insight into how much I love and respect women and reconcile the above with that perspective. It's an interesting road.

 

Carhill, you're my hero! Life is, indeed, too short to play those sorts of immature games. Life is also too short to live it as bitterly as I see so many posts reflecting.

[Hkizzle]

Carhill, you're my hero! Life is, indeed, too short to play those sorts of immature games. Life is also too short to live it as bitterly as I see so many posts reflecting.

 

Yeah of course I know the theory behind not playing games. I also know that life is precious yet people murder each other. Or people shouldn't lie or steal yet many people do.

 

What I was getting at is why the situations and behaviors even exist in the first place, and there's a biological reason.

[HsMomma]

Gentlemen - the right balance between jerks and nice guys. These guys won't be offending like jerks will, but at the same time they don't take **** from anyone. They'll have more tolerance than jerks - ie they are better at controlling themselves and keeping cool in situations where people are showing them disrespect. Unlike jerks, they don't resort to getting macho and physical when someone shows them disrespect - they're cool and charismatic enough to brush it off with words and a good smile. Gentleman don't bash other guys, period. They don't need the ego boost and it's not their personality.

 

I think the best way to describe a gentleman is a cooler and classier version of jerk. He has the same amount of confidence, but is less controversial or noticeable. Think of it this way - a girl walks into a party and the first guy she notices is the vin diesel-looking guy who has his arms around two girls, is loud, and is the dominant voice out of the circle of people he's talking to. He'll turn heads a lot and will get a mixed variety of reactions.

 

 

The gentleman is more subtle than the jerk or player, but he is not any less masculine or confident. It is simply a different style.

 

And that, Eddie, is MY husband to a tee!

[Brady_to_Moss]

Its funny...now that i am tired of women and their antics...i treat them as if i dont care about most of them at all...what does that do..make them talk to me more. I will never understand but girls like to be treated baldy. I see it all the time.

[Hkizzle]

Its funny...now that i am tired of women and their antics...i treat them as if i dont care about most of them at all...what does that do..make them talk to me more. I will never understand but girls like to be treated baldy. I see it all the time.

 

That's what I've noticed in my experience too. Once I stopped caring so much I attracted more women. Other things being equal.

[Thaddeus]

Its funny...now that i am tired of women and their antics...i treat them as if i dont care about most of them at all...what does that do..make them talk to me more. I will never understand but girls like to be treated baldy. I see it all the time.

No, they don't like to be treated badly.

 

They just like a man with backbone and who doesn't put them on a pedestal. Those who do wish to be put on pedestals - the so-called "princesses" - aren't good candidates for a relationship anyhow.

[Hkizzle]

 

Fake Nice Guys - they are very similar to the guys with chips on their shoulders, except these guys might not be so genuinely decent. Instead, they have the false idea that the way to get girls in bed is to smother them and be overly nice. Then when this doesn't work (and when does it ever work?) they flip out, become extremely frustrated, and become bitter.

 

With the guys I talked about above, they're at least being themselves, but are becoming bitter over the fact that no girl seems to be attracted to who they truly are. Fake nice guys aren't even true to themselves - they pretend, and tthey have very bad choice in what pretending to be.

 

Wannabe Jerks/Players - these guys are the most pathetic. They're not a pleasure for any decent guy to be around, because sooner or later they'll start ripping on the decent guy to impress a girl. That's their thing - they're insecure with themselves that they have to belittle other guys. They do most things to look hot for girls - tight a&f clothing, earrings, very define body, etc. The only thing they have going for them are their bodies, which do attract a number of girls, but their whole mind is based around their body. Sometimes at parties, I'd be talking with a girl and one of these guys would interrupt and make fun of my pecs or arms and tell the girl to feel his. Or I'd just be walking by, and they'd bring me into the conversation as a stepping stool for their egos.

 

Bottom line is, they appear to have confidence to some girls, but that fake confidence comes from being a jerk to other guys and their fitness alone - not their brains, personality, etc.

 

These guys can succeed with dumb girls who can't tell the difference between confidence and fake confidence.

 

.

 

Your sub classifications are good. But fake nice guys and wanna be jerks are probably the same thing.

[sally4sara]

Its funny...now that i am tired of women and their antics...i treat them as if i dont care about most of them at all...what does that do..make them talk to me more. I will never understand but girls like to be treated baldy. I see it all the time.

 

It just means you've removed the pressure you were under and are now not TRYING to impress them. It is the trying that was killing it for you.

 

I've seen girls who are so twisted in the head that they gravitate to guys who treat them badly. I've seen guys like this too. Ever hear of that book about how guys fall for bitches? It works both ways fella. Until a person accepts that they deserve to be treated well, they won't feel comfortable being treated well. They will continue to gravitate to what they're use to - being treated badly.

I use to be sorta screwed in the head when I was much younger. I did pick some crappy guys.

Now? I know I only get what I will put up with and I don't put up with much. I find myself in a healthy relationship now because of it. He tried to play games in the first few months, but it was because he thought that was just how girls work. A couple of time where I sent him home for trying to pull silly crap changed his mind. I suspect everyone can be a jerk to anyone they date if the person they date puts up with it.

It will work out for you too.

[EddieN]

Your sub classifications are good. But fake nice guys and wanna be jerks are probably the same thing.

 

Good point.

 

I know a guy who I really wish I didn't know. He was recruited for the sport I play but just stopped coming to practice in the first month of our freshmen year because he thought the rest of the team was bringing him down. He went on to join a frat and become a typical frat boy. He obviously started to take steroids to beef up his body. He always looked pissed off when he saw any of us, his former teammates.

 

On of my friends roomed with this guy his freshman year. Based on the stories my friend told, this guy was a PUSSY. My friend would come home and before he opened his room door, he would hear this guy crying like a baby on the phone to his girlfriend. He constantly fought with her but would do anything for her. He had no backbone whatsoever and was so insecure and emotional.

 

Yet, he hid that part of him behind his hot frat boy appearance. Recently, I've seen him around with a girl who is very very hot, and I wonder what she could possibly see in this guy who is such a tool. Then I realize that she must be one of those dumb girls who believe this guy is truly confident, when he is in fact the opposite.

 

So, bottom line is, this guy tries to be a jerk to other guys, but is a complete doormat for hot girls. In a case like this, the two categories merge, like you said.

[Thaddeus]

Ever hear of that book about how guys fall for bitches? It works both ways fella. Until a person accepts that they deserve to be treated well, they won't feel comfortable being treated well. They will continue to gravitate to what they're use to - being treated badly.

This is SO true!

 

I've got a very good friend of mine who's suffering through a marriage that's exactly like this. She's cheated on him at least twice (that he knows of... maybe more), she's spent their household into bankruptcy twice , and apparently "allows" him to have sex with her once every few months.

 

Yet he's still with her.

 

There are some things I just don't understand. That's one of them.

[Mr. DNA]

I'm generally very upbeat and forward-thinking, but I will say this.

 

If I could go back ten years and give myself advice, I’d say this - “Nice guys” need to wake up and stop dreaming that someone special out there will appreciate their unconditional, indefatigable niceness.

 

Try thinking like an economist – the reason that there are so many surplus nice guys on the market is because no girl wants them – an utter lack of demand, which diminishes value. I could swing a stick right now and hit five nice guys. If we could power our cars with nice guys, Saudi Arabia would go bankrupt overnight. Being a nice guy means being ignored most of the time and spending the rest of the time as a therapist who doesn’t get paid, or as Sam Kinison so aptly characterized it, an emotional tampon.

 

Someone who is meek, acquiescent and automatically forgiving of anything will be considered a self-renewing resource, also known as a resource that does not require care or attention because it will always be there no matter what. So, nice guys, if you want to stay bankrupt and devoid of market value, keep doing exactly what you’ve always been doing. I could go on...

[Thaddeus]

If I could go back ten years and give myself advice, I’d say this - “Nice guys” need to wake up and stop dreaming that someone special out there will appreciate their unconditional, indefatigable niceness.

 

Try thinking like an economist – the reason that there are so many surplus nice guys on the market is because no girl wants them – an utter lack of demand, which diminishes value. I could swing a stick right now and hit five nice guys. If we could power our cars with nice guys, Saudi Arabia would go bankrupt overnight. Being a nice guy means being ignored most of the time and spending the rest of the time as a therapist who doesn’t get paid, or as Sam Kinison so aptly characterized it, an emotional tampon.

 

Someone who is meek, acquiescent and automatically forgiving of anything will be considered a self-renewing resource, also known as a resource that does not require care or attention because it will always be there no matter what. So, nice guys, if you want to stay bankrupt and devoid of market value, keep doing exactly what you’ve always been doing. I could go on...

This is about the best outline of "nice guys" that I've ever seen.

 

Props to you, Mr DNA. Well done.

[Trialbyfire]

Every...single...man on this planet, has two sides to him. No one is universally nice. If you're waving your niceness like a big flag, it's a big red flag!

 

Most often nice guys aren't so nice. They just think they're nice.

[sally4sara]

This is SO true!

 

I've got a very good friend of mine who's suffering through a marriage that's exactly like this. She's cheated on him at least twice (that he knows of... maybe more), she's spent their household into bankruptcy twice , and apparently "allows" him to have sex with her once every few months.

 

Yet he's still with her.

 

There are some things I just don't understand. That's one of them.

 

So what does it imply when the majority of men think women don't want a guy who treats her well?

I personally think it implies that many women are not use to being treated well enough to gravitate towards "nice" guys.

 

And yeah, there are guys like this too, but how often do we see "nice girls finish last" threads?

 

Unfortunately I've ran into plenty of girls who've been raised believing they're "daddy's little princess" here in Georgetown, the Palisades, and Bethesda to expect to see a change in the amount of men who grow use to the treatment they'll receive from female jerks! This is NOT what I was hoping for when I thought parents needed to value their girls more so they wouldn't fall prey to male jerks.

[lucy9216]

No of course I don't mean the guys that think they're nice and in fact playing games. The biggest players I know actually don't think they are players but nice guys. I found that quite amusing, I guess it's their own mind protecting them from any sort of guilt.

 

What I mean is the genuine nice guys attract fewer women than players, all things being equal. So if you put it down to success rate. A nice guy that liked and approached 10 girls would attract fewer than a bad boy that approached 10.

 

You are absaloutely 100% right, I have found this out more recently than ever before. The ones that claim to be the nice ones and don't lie and hate liars and blah blah do end up turning out to be the players and the biggest liars. This is rather amusing when you step out of the situation and look at it but when you are the one directly involved in it, it does suck! I have dated alot more bad boys than the ones that claim to be the good guys. I have noticed with the bad boys I have dated, atleast I know who they are. They don't act like they are someone else and then it turns out to be a lie, you know from the beginning what you are getting yourself into so when things don't work out it is not so much as a surprise vs. the one who claimed to be mr. perfect.

[carhill]

IMO, some people become emotionally attached prior to experiencing and processing the reality of the other person and then that emotional attachment drives some of their propensity to be 'nice', waffle on boundaries and give the person 'another chance'. I know I've been guilty of this numerous times. What experience has taught me and MC has clarified is how to watch that person as my 'like' for them grows. I pay special attention to how they treat and interact with people they purport to 'love'. Also, how they speak about them. I take it for granted now that some people (women in my case) will treat me 'nice' because they want something from me (money, empathy, validation, ego boost, whatever) but it's those people with whom they have long relationships they treat as their authentic selves. There is no BS. I've learned to watch and accept, even if in marked contrast to how I'm being treated. Looking back, such has always been a bright light in the fog of attraction and attachment, but I failed to see it (in time). No longer

[Woggle]

Its funny...now that i am tired of women and their antics...i treat them as if i dont care about most of them at all...what does that do..make them talk to me more. I will never understand but girls like to be treated baldy. I see it all the time.

 

This is exactly what happened with me after the divorce from my first marriage. I stopped trying to please women and I started being much much more successful with them.

[Thaddeus]

This is exactly what happened with me after the divorce from my first marriage. I stopped trying to please women and I started being much much more successful with them.

Well, there's a difference here.

 

Treating women badly, intentionally, is one thing and, IMO, bad news.

 

But taking women off their pedestal, however imposed, and living your life as you wish it without regard to trying to please women or curry their favor, is something else entirely.

 

The prior is negative; the latter is positive.

 

There's a world of difference.

[You'reasian]

Good point.

 

I know a guy who I really wish I didn't know. He was recruited for the sport I play but just stopped coming to practice in the first month of our freshmen year because he thought the rest of the team was bringing him down. He went on to join a frat and become a typical frat boy. He obviously started to take steroids to beef up his body. He always looked pissed off when he saw any of us, his former teammates..

 

Piss test will answer your questions. I think its a requirement now adays, yes?

 

On of my friends roomed with this guy his freshman year. Based on the stories my friend told, this guy was a PUSSY. My friend would come home and before he opened his room door, he would hear this guy crying like a baby on the phone to his girlfriend. He constantly fought with her but would do anything for her. He had no backbone whatsoever and was so insecure and emotional.

 

Yet, he hid that part of him behind his hot frat boy appearance. Recently, I've seen him around with a girl who is very very hot, and I wonder what she could possibly see in this guy who is such a tool. Then I realize that she must be one of those dumb girls who believe this guy is truly confident, when he is in fact the opposite.

 

So, bottom line is, this guy tries to be a jerk to other guys, but is a complete doormat for hot girls. In a case like this, the two categories merge, like you said.

 

Push the guy a little. See if he's a pussy - that's probably the best way to see if he's got a backbone.

 

In any case, women in general don't respect nice guys. They respect attraction and good chemistry. After they get those two, they respect responsible behavior.

[EddieN]

Piss test will answer your questions. I think its a requirement now adays' date=' yes?[/quote']

 

He quit the team wayyy back in the beginning, after a month or so but we don't get piss tests anyway.

 

Push the guy a little. See if he's a pussy - that's probably the best way to see if he's got a backbone.

 

Oh, believe me...generally I leave people alone, no matter how much they piss me off, but we LOVE ****ing with this toolbag. One time I was behind him in a line with his old girlfriend and I could help but laugh and call him out on some of the head-smacking stuff he was saying, some of it was lies about how our team is doing, when he hasn't been on it for years.