Woggle Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 Actually men who file first tend to do much better in court. As with everything else in life being the nice guy just gets you raked over the coals. My lawyer advised me to treat my divorce like I was going to war and I came out the winner. Link to post Share on other sites
39388 Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 "Nice" guys think that letting her take the first move keeps them from being the bad guy. We are talking about "nice" guys right? It is amazing how so many want to blame everything on nice guys but never on the jerks, because "I expected the jerk to do something bad". A jerk who calls himself a nice guy is a jerk and was never a nice guy. Link to post Share on other sites
Sam Spade Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 I think what is rubbing about this is that it was always appalling when cheating seems rewarded. It feels like wasn't considered so appalling when the husband wanted to drop out with the replacement wife after 20 years. Appalling to ask someone to forgo a career to raise children and then stand them up to prepare for retirement without a work history in their 40s. I had the "law" explained. Most stated that when a marriage sours (no gender blame game here) the man avoids taking action. Distant becomes absent, cold becomes icy and he waits for her to give up. "Nice" guys think that letting her take the first move keeps them from being the bad guy. We are talking about "nice" guys right? And that's precisely why fault should be considered heavily in divorce proceedings. If you screw up - you pay. If you don't - you don't. (regardless of whether you are a man or a woman). (And please let's not start with the whole "ask women to forgo careers to raise children" crap; there are so many women that would drop work and stay home given a chance it's not even funny; In my life i've seen way more husbands grumbling that their wives are not returning to work already than ones that 'wish' their wives could just stay home) Link to post Share on other sites
True2form Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Ok I see all your points and I diplomatically agree. I think it all differs on where you live. In the US all I hear about is pre-nups and everything divided by half no matter what happens. I'm in england, and I've lived through the opposite end of this disgusting stick. I knew things were bad between my parents and I was scared of losing my middle class home and life but there was nothing I could do at 14. One day my mum picks me up from school and starts crying. She pulls over and says "I'm sorry it happened." I knew exactly what she meant - a divorce was being initiated. I was devastated. But over the years I've been been made disgusted by the apparent lack of justice/karma Sally said "I think what is rubbing about this is that it was always appalling when cheating seems rewarded." Yeah. My dad cheated and the powers of the universe seem to have completely turned a blind eye to all of this because is he reeling it in. The whole divorce started (I don't actually know who thrust the papers in who's face but considering the wreck my mother was I think it was dad) because my mum found him talking on the phone out of a window in the middle of the night. She heard him complaining about money worries down the phone to a woman who was being oh so sympathetic... My mum stormed in and confronted him and the truth outed. The divorce court preceeding didn't go so well. The judge had just been in a case where a woman was divorcing a man just to gain and he seemed to just come in still in that mindset. He treated my mother with contempt and my father (who was always very clever about what he said) managed to worm his way around admitting he had cheated, he lied/bent the truth and said he was a lodger with his new woman (who he'd moved in with) and my mum got nothing really. All that was settled was that she had to give back her car for him to sell. They had to sell the house and split the money from that down the middle. Then my dad would pay maintenance for me because i was still at school but it was under the condition that it was for me. Not for mum. My father then went on to marry his rich widow girlfriend, own two houses in property hotspots. Sell them both, earn his fathers inheritance and now my father is what he always wanted to be. A ****ing millionaire. He ruined his own daughter's faith in marriage, love and men just so he could get his hands on some dirty money. My mum continues to struggle, is depressed, rejected and has no confidence in herself. I find it really hard to be happy with boyfriends, At first I'm addicted to the male attention because I don't get any at home...then I get bored, fidgety and resentful. The second they act selfish, pathetic or money orientated, I bail. Sometimes I feel good for women who swindle their selfish husbands out of mounds of cash...sometimes I hate them because they ruin it for the genuine cases. So...that was the other point of view from the other side of the pond. Sometimes, yeah. There are no nice guys. Link to post Share on other sites
Woggle Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Women who claim that there are no nice guys would not know one if they he was right under their nose. They don't even realize that it is their rotten attitude that sdrives any decent man away. No man wants to date a headcase that is still trying to get back at daddy or get back at the last man who did her wrong even it was obvious he was no good. I am sorry if this sounds insensitive but it is the truth.With my upbringing it's a miracle I have not become a serial killer or a rapist or whatever and as much crap as I talk about women on here you don't see me taking out my issues on women offline. Women who have issues mighting somebody right sabotage themselves even if they don't know they are doing it. Link to post Share on other sites
lovers69 Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Women think that they can change men's attitude. Hmmm...motherly instincts? But in fact, they can't really change jerks. Link to post Share on other sites
sally4sara Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Women who claim that there are no nice guys would not know one if they he was right under their nose. They don't even realize that it is their rotten attitude that sdrives any decent man away. No man wants to date a headcase that is still trying to get back at daddy or get back at the last man who did her wrong even it was obvious he was no good. I am sorry if this sounds insensitive but it is the truth.With my upbringing it's a miracle I have not become a serial killer or a rapist or whatever and as much crap as I talk about women on here you don't see me taking out my issues on women offline. Women who have issues mighting somebody right sabotage themselves even if they don't know they are doing it. But you have many time said that your views are directly caused by what you experienced with your mother and ex. If no one has the patience for someone like that, how did you get your wife to marry YOU? Link to post Share on other sites
Woggle Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 But you have many time said that your views are directly caused by what you experienced with your mother and ex. If no one has the patience for someone like that, how did you get your wife to marry YOU? My mother probably would not have affected me so much if women didn't constantly confirm my views over and over again. Time and time again I just see that most women couldn't care less how much they hurt a man and some even get a sick pleasure out of it. Link to post Share on other sites
sally4sara Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 My mother probably would not have affected me so much if women didn't constantly confirm my views over and over again. Time and time again I just see that most women couldn't care less how much they hurt a man and some even get a sick pleasure out of it. Woggle, you don't know what other experiences True2form has had since her father behaved so vile. You're assuming her life is so different. Link to post Share on other sites
RedDevil66 Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 When talking about relationships with friends and from research I've noticed an interesting trend. A common complaint guys have, especially nice guys is: "I don't understand why she keeps dating jerks and ignores guys like me. Nice guys come last". Whilst a lot of women say "There are no nice guys out there........." Thing is a lot of women are putting their nice guy friends in the friendship zone, and just don't feel attracted to them. There's a good reason why this phenomenon happens, I'll post why later. Just curious why you think it happens. This is true when a woman is in her 20's but not after they are in their 40's. So much of what is said in this thread is BS and I do not know ONE woman who loves a jerk and throws away a good guy. Now if the good guy is lazy, lives at home with his Mom and is needy, then yeah, no one will want him. I LOVE nice guys Link to post Share on other sites
RedDevil66 Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 Women think that they can change men's attitude. Hmmm...motherly instincts? But in fact, they can't really change jerks. Don't be fooled, we can and we do change men Woman have all the power, just not all women have realized this yet ;-) Link to post Share on other sites
DSM2709 Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 My ex gf has said to me (on several occasions) she wanted someone who challenges her, and she wants a man's man, but I never "GOT IT", now I do get it, and it's too late. I am the typical "nice guy", and look where it has got me, very needy, insecure and jeolous type, I don't want to be that way anymore, but I lost the best thing that's happenend to me. Link to post Share on other sites
Citizen Drawn Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 Can I just ask, the guys that have such strongly negative views about nice guys, are you a former nice guy? It seems to me a bit like ex-smokers being strongly anti-smoking. When I read a post about nice guy this and nice guy coming from a guy I wonder what the hell inspired someone to think about this chit so much in the first place. Link to post Share on other sites
DSM2709 Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 I am a nice guy and look where it got me, I lost the gf because she wanted a guy who was more confident, indepedant, secure in himself, and challenging. I was none of those, and jeez if she didn't give me enough f**king clues, and I still didn't "GET IT", now I get it, and it's too freakin late. How can become those characteristics for the next woman I meet. I still want to be nice, but now with an edge, how do I change? Link to post Share on other sites
Citizen Drawn Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 I am a nice guy and look where it got me, I lost the gf because she wanted a guy who was more confident, indepedant, secure in himself, and challenging. I was none of those, and jeez if she didn't give me enough f**king clues, and I still didn't "GET IT", now I get it, and it's too freakin late. How can become those characteristics for the next woman I meet. I still want to be nice, but now with an edge, how do I change? Let me give you the flipside. I was a total jerk a long time ago and lost a great woman because of it. That's why I laugh when I hear all this crap about "he's a jerk why are you seeing him" business. It's not exactly fun when your girlfriends friends start telling her that right in front of your face and you get into punch-ups because of it. Nor is it fun the moment you wake up and realise what an idiot you are. Link to post Share on other sites
futago Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 'Nice guy' in this thread means a guy who gave the girl too much power in the relationship. The nice guy becomes a Doormat, as you can see the word repeated in a lot of the posts. When a girl overpowers a guy in a relationship, there will only be one ending. Do not give in to the girl so easily, you should say no to her if you think you do not want to. I believe a lot of people are a victim of the nice guy syndrome, including myself. Link to post Share on other sites
Woggle Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 Can I just ask, the guys that have such strongly negative views about nice guys, are you a former nice guy? It seems to me a bit like ex-smokers being strongly anti-smoking. When I read a post about nice guy this and nice guy coming from a guy I wonder what the hell inspired someone to think about this chit so much in the first place. I don't hate nice guys but I hate to see men setting themselves up for failure. If am a woman does not appreciate the good things a man does for her and wants a jerk he should dump her and let her live happily with her scumbag. Link to post Share on other sites
lovers69 Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 Well, nice guys aren't really as nice as what you think. They are just afraid to show who they really are. Link to post Share on other sites
39388 Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 Well, nice guys aren't really as nice as what you think. They are just afraid to show who they really are. No, the "nice guys" who you claim are not nice are really jerks pretending to be nice guys at first. Link to post Share on other sites
C-i-C-u Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 Don't be fooled, we can and we do change men Woman have all the power, just not all women have realized this yet ;-) That just isn't true. I know of a women who married an Alpha male and still is married for the past 20yrs. Her husband cheats on her all the time with women half their age. She doesn't know and doesn't care because he plays along with her that she was the "one" who changed him. Like the old saying goes, "you can't change a cat's color". If a guy treats you bad the best thing you can do is run in the opposite direction or better yet go for him. You deserve him for believing he is an alpha male and for because you are not as nice of an individual as some guys may believe you are. Link to post Share on other sites
Jagdpanther Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 interesting thread, personally speaking, I think I have been too 'nice' in some of my relationships. But then that is my own fault of course. I agree with the post where it says you should never give all yourself away, retain some back in the store, so to speak. I think it comes down to mutual respect. Being nice is fine if the other person respects and recognises this. I was in a relationship where I listened, and acted on her every emotional whim and whine, and in the end she ended up respecting me less and less. To the point where it failed. If I had stood up to her, and set boundaries I would have maybe retained the respect. She even said herself 'dont let me walk all over you' . As said before, being overly nice or accommodating has little to do with attraction , and can set yourself up for a fall. Have some backbone, spine, and dont be afraid to state your boundaries. Be a man, not man handled, and always maintain the respect and interest level your partner has in you. Dont be insecure or smothering, or jealous, or afraid to set your boundaries. Be strong and confident, caring , and respectful. The strong woman with a passive male quickly loses respect. Guys, when a woman loses respect for you, it does not matter if she pities you, wants to reach out to you or even loves you. Once her respect is lost, there is not much possibility of a relationship that is anything more than capitulation Link to post Share on other sites
lovers69 Posted August 2, 2009 Share Posted August 2, 2009 No, the "nice guys" who you claim are not nice are really jerks pretending to be nice guys at first. lol... I just made it a bit subtle. Link to post Share on other sites
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