I don't think she ever really loved me.

[Glutton]

Hello everybody,

 

I'm a 36 year old guy who is going through what I thought I never would have to again [after my wife and I split up in 1999]. I want to keep this short but I know it won't be - so I'm sorry about that.

 

My marriage ended poorly [no kids] and left me broke. I needed a place to stay and had to make a quick decision. A woman that was/is 6 years my senior and who has a [now 16 year old daughter] became someone to lean on. Like a Friday the 13th sequel, I probably don't have to tell you the rest - but I will. I moved in with her and her daughter after spending about 6 months on my own as we casually dated. Even though I knew at the time that this was probably a rebound, I never had more fun in my life. I used to cry some nights after spending a day with her because I was realizing what a truly loveless marriage I had - How weird is that? I found, and still find, her to be the most beautiful woman inside and out I that have ever met. When I was married I had the same opportunities to stray that I do now. Unfortunately, I did, when married, [that was NOT the cause of our divorce] but could never imagine doing that to my current girlfriend. I love her more deeply now then ever before. This may sound stupid; but, to a person that always questions what true love really is, I really thought that this "rebound" was just God rewarding me for having such a terrible marriage by giving me "the one" right away.

 

Here's where it gets really sad [for me anyway]. We have been living together since June of 2000 in a tiny 2 bedroom apartment. Her daughter was twelve at the time and there was NEVER any father in the picture [since two] The problems are basically with her daughter. I tried to be a father figure where one wasn't really wanted and I have recently come to realization that I have anger issues - big time.

 

About 6 months ago...she just shut me off. Went from calling me on my cell phone if I was 15 minutes late getting home to not calling if I came home two hours late. No calls to work. No e-mails. Like she couldn't care if I dropped dead. We have had some pretty big arguments and I now know that my pent up anger and negative attitude [yes, I am now going to counseling - it's a father hating thing] He was/is a real dick. I HEAR him coming out of my mouth everyday and I know that is what killed this relationship. I really don't think that she is the cheating kind but I so want to believe that their is someone else because the alternative is worse - that she just finally went to full-on hate mode. No sex in two months and I have to ask for a kiss. When I do...it's like poison to her. Only six months ago, it was like a another woman! If not another man, can someone just all of sudden say...I can't stand this person anymore? I guess so.

 

Anyway, when we had a pretty big blowout earlier this year, I started packing my stuff in anger. She halfheartedly told me that I was being a baby and to calm down. I did, and we have been living with these boxes surrounding us since then. Over this time, I have come to realize that it was ME not her or her daughter causing the tension all the time.

 

She never asked me to put my stuff back and since then, it has gotten progressively worse. This is why I am now convinced that her love for me is gone.

I should mention that, as I am writing this, I'm in between moving all my belongings into storage as I intend to move out at the end of the month. It just make sense.

 

Here is why I am on this board...She isn't even fazed - and I feel like I'm going to puke. She has said recently that if I did move out, we would still date, as she still loves me. I know this is being negative, but I know that when I move out...that's it. Neither one of us is picking up the phone. I have been crying all morning [she doesn't know that] and she is acting like some guy is just moving some crap out of her house. She recently said that if I move, it's because I want to leave and she is not going to beg someone to stay with her that doesn't want to stay with her or her daughter.

 

How can I stay with someone that can't stand me? No "good morning", no "good night", no kiss - nothing! I have talked to her about this and she says I am just being a baby and looking for sympathy. What the hell does that mean?

 

Here is where I am at...

 

I put myself in this position by packing and moving my stuff - she never asked me or told me to move out. My thought is that this NEEDS to be done but I am really scared that because of the following I know it will just be over...

 

She is 42 and lost her parents at 9 and 16. She has been on her own her whole life and doesn't seem to need anyone in her life. This is what I loved about her so much When she first told me that she loved me, and every time thereafter, it would light up my entire world. Haven't heard that in months.

 

Again, I am 36 and have had terrible friendships my entire life. I am only living in this state, because of her. I have no real friends here and yes...I am scared to death of being alone. Even as a kid, I sort of "knew" that I would end up alone but I never cared because I was young. I am having difficulty discerning between missing her and her daughter and being alone. We are both animal lovers and have adopted 4 cats together. When I watch her play with them..I cry thinking of how I might never see that smile again.

 

I know I have to leave here but I'm dying inside. In my twenties, I used to blow stuff like this off all the time. I keep thinking that this is payback for any hurt that I may have caused women in the past. I just never thought that this one would end - or at least end like this.

 

I started reading this forum a few days ago and I am only posting because I thought it would be good therapy. I don't even know if I am looking for answers but any input would help.

 

I think I am so devastated because today I am realizing that she probably never really loved me. Anger or no anger, she should want me no matter what if she loves me. When I say anger I mean just yelling and being hot tempered. Never lifted a finger. I just get set off easily by things like coming come to a broken glass not really cleaned up and now my foot is bleeding because of someone else not being considerate. I yell at her daughter, she takes her side and I am the a##%$&*e. That was our most recent reason for her ignoring me for an entire week.

 

Oh, and whenever I try to talk [imagine that...a guy who WANTS to talk] she says there is nothing to talk about and I am being stupid.

 

I used to think that if you went up to an old couple who were married for like 50 years and asked them if they were happy...they would probably say "naah, we just stayed together". What's killing me is that I think I probably could have moved out two years ago and she might not heaved cared then either. I don't want to just "stay together." I want back what we had. She was so much happier when I first moved in and I can see how miserable I make her. Why won't she just throw me out??? If she told me to leave, it would be easier. I feel like a dog that she just took in and won't get rid of.

 

She just took her daughter to work and then she's going grocery shopping. From day one, I always went with her. She doesn't ask me anymore. She won't talk to me.

 

I can't stop crying and I don't have the strength to keep moving my stuff out. I don't want go, but I don't know what else to do. I want to make love to her so bad but she won't even kiss me.

 

I never thought of EVER getting married again but if I knew she wanted, to I wouldn't even think twice about it - but I don't want to be with someone that doesn't really want me. How could she just watch me leave? I sleep maybe three hours a night - if I'm lucky. She's not even fazed by the change in our "relationship" Last night, she got into bed and didn't say a word and rolled over to go to sleep. I asked her if I should sleep on the couch and she said..."I don't care where you sleep". This is not the same woman I met four years ago. Why does she hate me so much?

 

Thank you all for reading and, more importatly, being out "there" to read it.

[moimeme]

You are both wounded. You, at least, are compounding the wound by acting inauthentically. You badly want to be with her but you are acting as though you want. How is she supposed to know what you really think? She is basing her opinion of you on your actions. You are making the move to move out - she may even feel rejected, herself, because of this. She said in as many words that she thinks you don't want her.

 

You likely did quite a bit of damage to the relationship because of your anger but still she didn't ask you to leave. I doubt she hates you, but she doesn't want to compound her existing hurt by being more vulnerable to you if you are about to abandon her. She says she doesn't want to talk? This can be a method of pain avoidance. It could be that she fears hearing you don't want her or don't love her.

 

Drop the pretenses. Talk to her. Ask her if she's willing to work with you to try to rebuild the relationship and then commit to doing it if she says yes. Tell her what you told the board. One of the saddest things possible is two people too wounded to admit that they love and want each other. One of you will have to be brave and it looks like you're elected.

 

Go to http://www.marriagebuilders.com. Read the stuff. Maybe ask her to read it, too. Commit to doing the work. But for heaven's sakes, be honest about what you want and what you want to do and quit keeping up a pretense that you want to leave because that's not helping. She thinks you're ready to bail - no wonder she's withdrawn her affection!

[ArdeaCandidissima]

So many questions in your email. Here are just a few thoughts:

 

1) You may be clinically depressed. Depression in men is often expressed as excessive or unreasoning anger, as well as sleeplessness and extreme feelings of worthlessness and hopelessness. Get to a doctor ASAP - I recommend perhaps 20 mg of Paxil for you daily. Try it!

 

2) Expressions of anger, when extreme and repeated, can indeed kill love or at least send it into severe dormancy.

 

3) Based on what you have said, I believe that she has loved you and in fact still does love you, but is very unhappy about your anger and disruption of her daughter's life.

 

4) Your approach to moving out seems extreme (moving out == end of relationship). I think your girlfriend's suggestion about still dating after you move out may be a very good one.

 

5) You seem to feel that if your girlfriend permits or encourages you to move out, that is equivalent to her utterly rejecting you and rejecting all the love of your shared past. Not so.

 

6) I wouldn't be so quick to assume that your past infidelities had nothing to do with your marriage breakup.

 

7) I also wouldn;t worryt a lot about stuff that happened to you or your girlfriend when you were children. That is a rat's nest that actually does not lead to better outcomes.

 

8) What I feel you need is immediate evaluation and treatment for depression, and joint couples counseling.

 

Anger or no anger, she should want me no matter what if she loves me.

 

No. Why would you think this?

 

When I say anger I mean just yelling and being hot tempered. Never lifted a finger. I just get set off easily by things like coming come to a broken glass not really cleaned up and now my foot is bleeding because of someone else not being considerate. I yell at her daughter, she takes her side and I am the a##%$&*e. That was our most recent reason for her ignoring me for an entire week

 

Well, I am glad to hear you never lifted a finger. However, anger and verbal violence alone can be quite wounding, frightening, and destructive of trust and intimacy. I understand your dilemma - at my house I have always been the person who yells about broken glass, but have started to learn that even of the house is on FIRE, anger is not the right way to deal with it. A loud voice yelling "FIRE!", yes; anger, no.

 

This is fixable - get going and good luck.

[moimeme]

Anger or no anger, she should want me no matter what if she loves me

 

Missed that first time 'round. Absolutely NOT. What Ardea said bears repeating:

 

Expressions of anger, when extreme and repeated, can indeed kill love or at least send it into severe dormancy.

 

They will also kill desire and everything else.

 

The fastest way to kill love is to beat it to death with repeated instances of anger, particularly when it is unjustified. In fact, she must love you a lot to not have thrown you out already. However, that does not give you leave to live in anger. That is a deal-breaker for sure. Fix that FAST.

[Glutton]

Wow. Are you doctors? Thank you so much for the responses. Since my post, I have spoken with her. Unfortunately, it was me doing all the talking. I know that she knows how much I love her - that is not her worry. It is, and has always been, the "angry at the world" issue. I guess I am having trouble dealing with this because, in my own little world, I was thinking the same thing..."Why didn't you toss me months ago?" Why wait 4 years to say, "Oh, by the way, I can't stand you."

 

Moimeme: Come to think of it, the lack of affection started right around when I went on my "packing tantrum". Thanks for that link but I don't think she wants to go through any counseling with me. She has enough to deal with her daughter and they already do see a counselor.

 

Ardea: Thanks for hitting all those points. Definitely going to see someone as soon as I can. Have three doctors picked out already but confused about what kind. Psychiatrist? Therapist with a PhD? I know that only the MDs can prescribe, but where do I start? Don't need a referral. Just need to pick the specialty.

 

Thinking Bi-Polar? Funny thing about all this is that my whole world thrives on making people laugh. I can usually leave the supermarket clerk in stitches in about 30 seconds. I have my entire office laughing all day long and I am convinced that it is one of the things that made her fall in love with me. I love the feeling of cracking someone up. Now, when I look back at some of our earlier photographs together [and see that beautiful smiling face], it breaks my heart to see how unhappy she is now. I see the misery on her face and I hate myself for doing that to her.

 

She said she just wants to be happy and that she hasn't been. She also said that I am just looking for someone [her] to tell me what to do and that I should do what I feel. She has already suggested that I get help, although not as nicely as you both have:)

 

Even if she were to tell me to stay and work through this...maybe the "right" thing to do is to disappear for a while to get 'fixed". Just scared that we will drift. Common sense is telling me to calculate the odds of "getting back"after breaking from a four year relationship - doesn't look good. Familiar with the "If you love something, set it free..." Not sure if I buy it. I believe in fixing things together.

 

Another thing about moving out is that, although I have been quite the jerk, I don't want to leave and miss any time that I could be spending with her daughter to make things better. She really is a sweetheart and she may view leaving as a sign that I NEVER cared about her or worse - that I am leaving BECAUSE of her.

 

Thanks for being there at the right time. I'm still nauseous, but at least I'm not crying [right now :-)] Hope to be able to help someone some day the same way you have helped me today.

[moimeme]

Thanks for that link but I don't think she wants to go through any counseling with me. She has enough to deal with her daughter and they already do see a counselor.

 

It's actually a link to a bunch of strategies for getting a relationship back on track. You can read the stuff and do them on your own. You don't need to go anywhere or buy anything, really. Much of his stuff is already on the site.

 

Psychiatrist? Therapist with a PhD? I know that only the MDs can prescribe, but where do I start? Don't need a referral. Just need to pick the specialty.

 

You may be best to talk to your own physician and get a referral - you'll want a counsellor that comes with at least someone's recommendation! You may need some diagnostic tests - or not, depending on your symptoms. If your problems are biochemical, you'll need the assistance of a psychiatrist although some other specialties are beginning to get rights to prescribe some psych meds. You probably won't know that until you get a diagnosis, though.