A sad story... love, sex, addiction and... divorce?

[smarties]

being so hard on yourself, it is very easy to say this is all your fault. Well done for seeing your failings in this marriage. You must however see that it was also up to your wife to discuss your marriage and what is and isn't working for her.

 

I admire you owning up to your faults, however if I read correctly you say your wife started ADs and didn't tell you.

 

You cannot fix your marriage on your own. It comes across as neither of you are able to talk.

 

I don't see the alcohol as the issue. I see you both just getting on with it as it was easier than dealing with the truth.

 

Sadly it is more selfish of you to stay for the kids and raise them in a home where they see your unhappiness.

You have an obligation to try and sort this out for your children, for you and for your wife. It will be the only way to know if you love her or not.

 

Make the choice. What ever that is stick with it.

 

You cannot carry all the responsibility of this marriage, your wife must also see the role she played in allowing it to become what it has.

 

I understand ADs can have a negetive effect on a relationship, however we have a duty to ourselves to talk and listen to our loved ones and work on our relationships.

 

I wish you so much luck.

[semperdolens]

my wife has always been quite reserved and never discussed her feelings. It's an upbringing thing... she adimts it herself. She started taking ADs for general anxiety (GAD) without telling me, let alone discussing it with me. I had no idea that she felt that way. I had no time to "absorb" the whole thing, with a baby and a 3 year old. One year earlier she also had a miscarriage. Maybe it wasn't entirely my fault. I was never able to talk to my wife properly, she just would not open up. I tried very hard, but after a while I stopped. I wasn't getting anywhere. I think we should have gone to MC then, but it never crossed my mind.

 

I need to go to IC to understand myself and what I want and then take it from there. The children are not unhappy. We never argue in front of them (actually, we hardly ever argue) and, although they know that we have issues, they are not in fear of us splitting up or anything...

 

 

Thank you for the input... it's great to be able to talk to someone...

[dixiepix]

Here is a wife's perspective, because I am her...4 children (ages 3-17), stay at home mommy, (due to childcare expense with multiple children not yet in school).

 

We met in college, we decided to put my education on hold, he finished, gets job, we move.

The college drinking thing just never seemed to end only escalated to be a daily thing. First a six pack/night. It progressed to drinking 12 or more & stumbling around the home, spilling beer in the carpet etc. As children came along, in an attempt for me to get him to look at his behavior pattern, I gently confronted it as what the kids are seeing. He moved it outside. For the past few years, he could be home a while (30min-1hr), out in the garage downing a few before he even makes it to the kitchen. Then once he's made it inside, he changes clothes and resumes outdoor activities and downing many more til dark.

 

Meanwhile, I've been inside tending to constant needs of the children...granted, I probably need more organization in this house, but I am trying to do this all by myself, (so it seems), while you drown your life in the bottom of a can or glass. How is this getting you anywhere? What is sooo bad that you do this to us, our family, your kids? Do we mean nothing to you? How long do I have to play mommy & daddy to our children. Meanwhile, the kids are starving, I fix them something...wow it is already 6pm. Get them bathed, etc. You come in around 8:30, toasted. "What's for supper and why aren't we all eating together?" I fix you whatever you want to eat and try to explain they haven't eaten since lunch and did not get an alcohol appetizer (not in those words), but you get my point. You get a little ticked because we ate without you and YOU are the breadwinner... anyways ... no respect. No offense, but I really do not care for our children to watch a drunken person eat day after day, especially not their daddy... I am trying to maintain some of your dignity. It is bad enough they see you passed out in the recliner with that last dip of snuff fallen out of your mouth lying on your shirt when they kiss you goodnite. I tell them it's dirt... daddy has been outside working remember? AD's? Yeah, I'm on ADHD meds right now? Who wouldn't be. I am trying to be everything to these 4 kids, 5 counting YOU! I need all the focus I can get. I don't have time to sit around feeling sorry for myself.

 

You selfish b*****d, and now that you are finally sober, you think it's all gonna be peachy? I have been living in this hellish nightmare for so long, I don't know what is real anymore. And you have the nerve to tell me, you don't like the way I teach our children. Where have you been? I have been doing the best I can and trying to keep our family from unraveling thread by thread. And you know what, I have loved you for so long while you gave yourself and your love to that addiction... I don't care if you don't love me! Hell yes I am bitter. What it took you years to destroy, you think a few months on track is gonna fix. It won't. The love, the trust, the committment...you threw away, drank away, however you want to put it. It does not mean I don't love you, if I didn't love you, I would have been gone a long time ago. It means, I don't think you love me. I'm not sure if you ever did or ever will. Yes the scars are deep and will take a long time to heal for everyone.

 

And by the way, when you feel you are not sure if you love me or not, I feel it too. Tension is in the air, not only do I feel it but our kids do too. Did you know our kids often say they don't like you? So I honestly don't know what the right thing to do is. It is not just me who has carried this burden but them also. And unlike me, they don't understand source behind their feelings. In their minds it is more of-daddy is here physically, but that is it. They don't know you because you never made an effort.

 

I praise your efforts and progress toward curing your addictions...but HONEY...pick up your boots, and be the husband and father you wife and children deserve. LET THE PAIN STOP NOW AND QUIT BEING SELFISH. Start doing what you should have been doing all along. If you ever loved your wife, you will again. All mariages go thru cycles. You just forgot how while you were drinking. You forgot how to love anything except your yourself, your alcohol & cigarettes. It will take time to learn how to love and give of yourself again. Best of luck, I've had one foot out the door for 5 years now, and I could break anytime. I pray to my God every day, to give me the strength to make it one more day with YOU. PLEASE FINALLY, GIVE ME SOME REASONS TO STAY!

[dixiepix]

But, I do feel her pain. This is really good therapy for me having lived this for the past 10 years. I would like to keep this going, in a he said, she said type script. Maybe talking to me like you would your own wife and vise versa... will help put our situations into perspective as well as see it from the other partners point of view. And maybe one day, we'll both have the answers we are so desperately looking for. I have always felt his addiction was my fault and that if he ever quit drinking, he'd want a divorce, which would only further reinforce what I've feared all these years. I've been committed for so long, yet tired, ... with one foot out the door, praying he don't step on it. I am not sure: should I stay or go? Will it ever be the same or maybe it will be better.

 

I hope you agree to do this as I am hoping going with a script of such will not only allow me to see my partners point of view, but allow me to digest how my actions and reactions to everything has impacted him. Even though most of my actions have been to survive and try to keep the family from falling apart. It is now apparent from reading your posts, even the slightest adjustments the spouse of an addict has to make to get along greatly impacts the addict as well. I welcome the opportunity to get your perspective as an addict & recovering addict. I have a background in Nursing and have knowlegde of addictions but lack the knowledge to help myself without true insight. And who knows this could become a thread with tons of post since this is a commom problem in many marriages.

[marriage]

I agree with the other posters that say AA is not about believe in God, it's about a higher power. You said you stopped drinking on your own, that's great!

[Phateless]

Does she recognize that she screwed up by hiding the AD from you? I think to make this work you both have to let go of the past and move forward in a positive way. Try to break the old routines and habits into smithereens. Do something completely uncharacteristic of you and bond over it.

[NoIDidn't]

While I don't agree with her not telling you about the anti-depressants for general anxiety, I don't think she did it maliciously. She probably thought and was told by her doctor that they would help and was not properly warned about the side-effects.

 

I can tell you as one that suffers from GAD, that she absolutely hates that you abandoned her emotionally when she most needed you. GAD really feeds off of the negative energy of abandonment, as it just confirms the fears one is having (self-fulfilling prophesy, and all).

 

It sounds to me that sobering up didn't give you what you wanted, but life never does anyway. Everyone thinks that if they just did this differently, or just had that, everything would be perfect. But that's just not the way things work. Your wife felt this way too. She was trying to hide her anxiety from you, but things didn't work out quite the way she thought they would.

 

I think you both don't like each other very much right now. But, I also think that you still have a lot of love for each other that you are just tooo afraid to show given the past. And, boy, have I been here too. It can get better if you put your defenses down, little by little.

 

Maybe AA won't work for you. I am religious, but I still don't think I could do AA or AlAnon because its just not enough individual focus for me. IC will help you tremendously, it helped my husband and I (and neither of us has a drinking problem).

 

Congrats on sobering up, since I hadn't said it earlier.

[2sure]

"You aint much fun since I quit drinkin" ...you've heard the song.

 

I'm not being sarcastic. After a person quits an addiction like alcohol or drugs, everything looks and feels different. The sharp edges of life that were previously blurred and softened by the crutch of choice is gone. All comes into sharp focus. You have taken off your "beer goggles".

 

It took 20 years, a slide into depression, and a long term alcohol addiction for your marriage to get where it is. Both you and your wife became if not happy, then at least familiar and maybe even comfortable living with the dysfunctions that were a big part of your lives. Take away the familiar dysfunctions and you are now in unfamiliar territory.

[semperdolens]

sorry for my absence...

 

I would like to clarify a couple of things... unlike dixiepiexie's husband, I did not need looking after. On the contrary, I cooked a meal (sometimes 2 if my wife was on a diet) for everybody every night and looked after the kids when my wife was at work, also during the school holidays. Maybe I did not help a lot on the house chores front, but my wife "only" worked 4 days a week, vs my full week + (sometimes 70 hours/week). I did iron the kids' school uniforms every morning plus I always did my own washing and tidied up the kitchen after cooking. I always get up first in the morning to care for the kids before school. This not to blow my own trumpet, but I was a highly function heavy drinker. What I did not realise was the impact the alcohol was having on my thinking. And it felt like I was there, but I was a kind of robot...

 

I was upset when I realised that my wife was taking AD. I felt kind of betrayed. And instead of helping her, I went into a corner and sulked. But this is typical me. I have a big problem with guilt, very big. I lost touch with reality and I know that it must have been difficult for my wife to live with me, living with a husband + the bottle. She stopped loving me. I understand that. Can we rebuild our love? I don't know. I have a lot of soul-searching to do...

[happylife]

It was "only" a few drinks in the evening. Never drank during the day (I could not, with my job). But family routine was unberable. I did know I had a problem, but I was highly functioning.

 

 

 

This sounds exactly like my husband. The exact same phrase "i only have a few drinks", he tells me everyone does. and that i need to chill out. Then he says i'm the reason he drinks as we have problems. Once the bottle is open then he will finish it. It repulses me. If someone buys him a bottle of whisky he wont stop until it's gone -albeit over a couple/few nights. We cannot have a drinks cabinet as he would drink his way through it. If i'm out with friends and plan to take a bottle of wine i have to hide it until i go or he will drink it. He never drinks before 6-7pm. Sometimes he can manage 3 glasses only but if we have a arguement he's on it big time, will drink whatever we have until he cannot even stand up. He tells me he doesnt have a problem, i dont know anymore what's normal. A lot of my girlfriends drink every night, 2-3 glasses he said i should be more like them and chill about it all. What do you think? I have a couple of glasses prob twice a week at weekends I would think that's more normal? If we are socialising i'll have a fair bit more. In your opinion does he have a drinking problem?

[semperdolens]

It was "only" a few drinks in the evening. Never drank during the day (I could not, with my job). But family routine was unberable. I did know I had a problem, but I was highly functioning.

 

 

 

This sounds exactly like my husband. The exact same phrase "i only have a few drinks", he tells me everyone does. and that i need to chill out. Then he says i'm the reason he drinks as we have problems. Once the bottle is open then he will finish it. It repulses me. If someone buys him a bottle of whisky he wont stop until it's gone -albeit over a couple/few nights. We cannot have a drinks cabinet as he would drink his way through it. If i'm out with friends and plan to take a bottle of wine i have to hide it until i go or he will drink it. He never drinks before 6-7pm. Sometimes he can manage 3 glasses only but if we have a arguement he's on it big time, will drink whatever we have until he cannot even stand up. He tells me he doesnt have a problem, i dont know anymore what's normal. A lot of my girlfriends drink every night, 2-3 glasses he said i should be more like them and chill about it all. What do you think? I have a couple of glasses prob twice a week at weekends I would think that's more normal? If we are socialising i'll have a fair bit more. In your opinion does he have a drinking problem?

 

I would say he has a problem, more or less at the stage I was at. He cannot moderate and cannot stop at a couple of drinks and needs to drink every day. That's addiction, both physical and psychological. It might not still be at a later stage of alcoholism, but he will get there, eventually.

 

Yes, it's infuriating, but that's his way of coping. Alcohol is his crutch in all of this. I blamed my wife for my drinking, I thought she "ruined" my life and, although we did have problems, I took the easy way out, but drinking doesn't make you solve the problems, it makes them worse. You cannot face your problems when you are drinking. You are numbing your feelings, your world. If you really want a chance of saving your marriage - because that's not a marriage - he has to stop. He needs to have a clear mind to deal with his issues and the issues in your marriage. Unfortunately, the recovery path is very long and, even if he stops drinking, don't expect sudden miracles...

[happylife]

Thanks so much. It's very 'black and white' wtih my H, ie he's not a fully blown alcoholic so he will say there's not problem. Reading your post from the other side I'm pleased i'm not going mad and that this is not normal behaviour. Can you answer me a question as I want to support him.... does this mean that i also need to stop drinking? Would it be mean of me to have a glass of wine infront of him? It saddens me to think that we possibly wount be able to share a bottle of wine ever again but is that true? it abstainment the only way for him? Do you not drink at all now? It's not that important to me but it's such a sociable thing, but if that's the case then so be it. Thank you.

[semperdolens]

Thanks so much. It's very 'black and white' wtih my H, ie he's not a fully blown alcoholic so he will say there's not problem. Reading your post from the other side I'm pleased i'm not going mad and that this is not normal behaviour. Can you answer me a question as I want to support him.... does this mean that i also need to stop drinking? Would it be mean of me to have a glass of wine infront of him? It saddens me to think that we possibly wount be able to share a bottle of wine ever again but is that true? it abstainment the only way for him? Do you not drink at all now? It's not that important to me but it's such a sociable thing, but if that's the case then so be it. Thank you.

 

Should you stop drinking? Not necessarily, but it will be more difficult for him. Maybe you could only drink when you go out?

 

I stopped drinking completely and it's wonderful. My wife says I am a different person, and I am indeed. See if you can convince him to get counselling about his drinking and/or your marriage. But it's unlikely that he will solve any of his/your problems if he keeps "self-medicating" like that. He needs to remember what the problems are, not forget about them.

[WalkInThePark]

Semperdolens, stop beating yourself up. You got off the booze and tabacco, congratulations on that.

As far as your wife is concerned, in a relationship you have to support each other but at the same time every partner is responsible for his/her own happiness and has to do his/her share to make the communication optimal. Your wife made a huge mistake not telling you that she was taking AD. She should have discussed that with you, especially since the effect of AD on the libido. Furthermore, a discussion with you would probably have made her consider other options, such as therapy.

 

Reading on message boards such as LS and hearing stories in real life, I am shocked at the number of adult women who don't seem to be able to get their act together. In the process they give their husband hell. Life isn't easy and I have also felt depressed and sad at times. I know it has everything to do with the disfunctional family I come from. But at least I have had courage to go in therapy and to adapt a healthier lifestyle. Also, I have not fled in a relationship to feel better but decided that I'd rather first feel OK with myself.

 

I have the feeling that there are so many women out there who can't wait to get married and have kids only to become depressed once they have the marriage and kids. I think it is normal because if you don't sort out your personal problems, sooner or later they will catch up with you.

 

Semperdolens, I would see a therapist if I were you so that you have a better view on what you feel and want.

I would not go for AA. I often have the feeling that it's just another drug, which replaces the drugs or alcohol. If everytime you feel bad, you need to go to a meeting of AA, is that normal? I don't think so. I believe more in being able to soothe yourself.

 

Good luck and please don't think you are weak. If you managed to no longer drink and smoke on your own, you are very strong in my opinion.

[semperdolens]

maybe, but I can't help thinking that I scewed up, that my marriage is in pieces and that it's partially my fault. How did all this happen? To me? How could I be so blind? How did I end up in this situation? I want to go and I can't. Can't make myself doing anything. I suppose I have achieved quite a lot already, but I have a lot of stuff to go through. I also see that my wife is not happy and that makes me sad. I think we should divorce, but the financial consequences would be horrendous and we can't put the children through that.

 

Yes, I keep beating myself up, because I'm big on guilt, always have. I'm looking for the right counsellor at the moment and will take IC soon. Thanks for the kind words.

[semperdolens]

After a few months, I feel I'm due an update...

 

It's not a happy one, I'm afraid. I'm drinking again. I suppose my sobriety only lasted about 6 months. The reason (excuse)? I feel that with all my stresses I just can't cope without alcohol. For me it's a straight choice: stay with the family and children, drinking, or not to drink, but without the family. Can't do both. So, I decided to stay, but with the drink. I'm drinking a fair amount, about 1,5 bottles of wine per evening... sometimes less. It's not doing any good to my liver, but I can't cut down. It's been fairly stable for many weeks now. I'm a functioning alcoholic, I suppose.

 

What do you guys think? Do you think I should leave my family, detox and visit? I tried the sober + family scenario and I was going totally mad. I do get on fine with my wife now. But I can't cope with work and family stress together. I just hate it. I need alcohol to get through the evenings of even more chores after a hard day at work... on a positive note, I'm still not smoking...

 

thanks for your attention...

[You Go Girl]

Sorry to hear you went back to alcohol.

This is not the answer.

 

You need a 12 step. You need an accountability partner. You need to stop drinking, and learn to deal with life's problems without alcohol. There is NO SUCH THING as life without problems. Alcoholics just use the excuse that there are problems to drink.

You didn't do the steps, and now it shows. You were what is commonly called a 'dry drunk'. This means that you stopped physically drinking, but your mentality didn't change.

I hope you find your way back to sobriety.

[semperdolens]

Sorry to hear you went back to alcohol.

This is not the answer.

 

You need a 12 step. You need an accountability partner. You need to stop drinking, and learn to deal with life's problems without alcohol. There is NO SUCH THING as life without problems. Alcoholics just use the excuse that there are problems to drink.

You didn't do the steps, and now it shows. You were what is commonly called a 'dry drunk'. This means that you stopped physically drinking, but your mentality didn't change.

I hope you find your way back to sobriety.

 

I'm aware that drinking is NOT the solution... I know that and I'm the first person to recognize that... that's why I stopped in the first place. What I was asking: in order to quit drinking forever, I need to get rid of my stressors. I can't quit my job (since I support the family), so I feel I have to quit the family to support it. I need no stress to quit alcohol forever. I can't go to rehab because I cannot afford it. So, my choice is: be under stress and eventually kill myself, or leave, support the family from a distance and try and beat my addiction? I think I'm answering myself, actually...

[You Go Girl]

I'm aware that drinking is NOT the solution... I know that and I'm the first person to recognize that... that's why I stopped in the first place. What I was asking: in order to quit drinking forever, I need to get rid of my stressors. I can't quit my job (since I support the family), so I feel I have to quit the family to support it. I need no stress to quit alcohol forever. I can't go to rehab because I cannot afford it. So, my choice is: be under stress and eventually kill myself, or leave, support the family from a distance and try and beat my addiction? I think I'm answering myself, actually...

 

the above underlined--NEVER going to happen.

You think there is stress now? Just wait until you leave your family.

You are in the drinking fog. You are not thinking straight. You have not done the mental work to stop being a mental-alcoholic. You stopped drinking for awhile, but you didn't change what brought on the "ism" of alcoholism.

THere is a process to recovery. It's a mental process, not just the physical one of giving up alcohol.

But don't believe me. See an addiction therapist and hear it from them.

[lordWilhelm]

I read the whole thread for the first time. I was really struck by how you realized you were a completely different person when you went off drinking -- maybe you should re-read the whole thread yourself as well.

 

Have you gone to IC, and if so has it been helpful at all?

[2sunny]

DOING the steps in AA will change your life.

 

YOU cannot control the alcohol - the alcohol controls you. YOU give that to a power greater than yourself - a power that YOU choose... anything! agnostics do a beautiful job in AA when they take action to get well. there is a whole chapter to the agnostics the the big book.

 

go to a meeting, state that you are having problems... ASK for help. people are there to HELP YOU!!! they can show you a better way and a better life. YOU don't need to do this alone. they are there to help. find a meeting and go today.

[semperdolens]

DOING the steps in AA will change your life.

 

YOU cannot control the alcohol - the alcohol controls you. YOU give that to a power greater than yourself - a power that YOU choose... anything! agnostics do a beautiful job in AA when they take action to get well. there is a whole chapter to the agnostics the the big book.

 

go to a meeting, state that you are having problems... ASK for help. people are there to HELP YOU!!! they can show you a better way and a better life. YOU don't need to do this alone. they are there to help. find a meeting and go today.

 

No, I can do this alone... but not with the added stress... alcoholism is a big problem on its own... I need to be alone to sort this out. I cannot have added stress on top of this. Nobody can see this? I was sober over six months... I was physically better, but not mentally better, because the stress elements were still there... it takes time to recover mentally, but surely you need to be clear of everything? Clean slate? You are judging - and fair enough, I asked for it - but can't you see my position at all? I'm very fragile, but I keep going to keep the family afloat. I managed to stop, but I crumbled... the only way is to leave, go meditating and f*** the family.... is that what you are suggesting? And stop telling me about the 12 steps, because, unfortunately, I don't believe in them...

[You Go Girl]

No, I can do this alone... but not with the added stress... alcoholism is a big problem on its own... I need to be alone to sort this out. I cannot have added stress on top of this. Nobody can see this? I was sober over six months... I was physically better, but not mentally better, because the stress elements were still there... it takes time to recover mentally, but surely you need to be clear of everything? Clean slate? You are judging - and fair enough, I asked for it - but can't you see my position at all? I'm very fragile, but I keep going to keep the family afloat. I managed to stop, but I crumbled... the only way is to leave, go meditating and f*** the family.... is that what you are suggesting? And stop telling me about the 12 steps, because, unfortunately, I don't believe in them...

 

You think you can do this alone. Why go the hard route? There are wonderful people in AA. Most people are not churchy. You'd be surprised how many people you would meet there. Relating to others, is a terrific stress reliever, yet you refuse to meet others in your shoes, why? No man's an island, why try to be one?

These meetings are a super eye-opener. Like counseling for free. People meet, make friendships, exchange numbers, and eventually get a sponsor--a person they call when they need help emotionally to make it through one more day.

I am an agnostic! The church part, when somebody was churchy in a meeting, irritated me. But then the next speaker would be an agnostic and would totally change the mood of the discussion.

I am not an alcoholic. I went to Al-anon.

Please read up on Al-anon. Tell your W about it. Does she complain about the drinking, or say anything at all about it?

If she is co-dependent, that could very well explain why your relationship isn't improving, and since you drink every evening, I bet she's co-dependent.

That doesn't mean she has no issues. It just means that the two of you are on a vicious cycle that never ends. AA and Al-anon will help both of you refocus yourselves. The Al-anon portion is also about those members focusing on THEIR issues, not yours. It could be another way to bring you and your wife closer. At least consider it, try a few meetings (and it does take several meetings to start to 'get it', and that's just to start--there's so much to learn) before leaving your marriage.

And what about marriage counseling?

Have you tried everything to save your marriage?

If not, be careful what you wish for, because if you get it, you could be miserable for years wondering why you didn't try everything before giving up. I don't want you ending up like that.

Most alcoholics think they need to leave their marriages when they get sober. This is right after they get sober. It's classic. The newfound energy, anxiety, and the slowly coming out of the fog of alcohol (which takes years if you've been drinking years to think like non-drinkers) leads people to think that they have to keep on the energy train they are on--hence leave their marriage--they don't know how to slow down that nervous energy to keep improving their lives.

But that's not a balanced improved life. A balanced improved life is the regular non-drinker's reality=nothing is a crisis, and little can't be fixed.

[semperdolens]

I've come to the conclusion that I will have to leave my family, quit my job and join the AA to save my life, unfortunately... thanks for your help...

[swedejones]

This is not the need of everything...you should put more efforts in doing everything so that you will enjoy your married life to your fullest!!!