I drove by

[whichwayisup]

I get what you are saying about your OWN situation Misty. I made my posts because other posters here were pretty much telling Maddie that she should just get over it already, after all it HAS been 1.5 years. I was pointing out that just as Maddie 1.5 years later still had curiosity about the OW, the OW still 1.5 years later had an extreme reaction to seeing Maddie just drive down the street.

 

And that's because the OW and MM still work together. The wound is STILL open abit and it will be until either OW or MM leave their job so they won't work together anymore.

 

I bet OW's husband isn't too pleased to know that his wife and the exMM still work together.

[MistyK]

So a BS isn't allowed to react? Sleeping with her husband you don't think hurt her to the core? Sorry, but a driveby by the BS compared to an OW sleeping with a BS's husband isn't as devastating. The thing is, an OW or OM SHOULD expect some kind of fallout/reaction after D-Day. Part of their consquence by choosing to be in an affair.

 

It would be stalking and something more serious if the maddie followed her all the time, but one time hardly counts as stalking.

 

WWIU - I completely understand, but exactly how does lashing out at a OW help the M? When did 2 wrongs make a right? The OW likely didn't setting out to hurt the OW, but that is what happens. The BS seetting out to hurt the OW for revenge's own sake, well, that's another kettle of fish. It helps nothing, but it is a natural reaction. But of course, I don't think this OP had revenge in mind.

 

I think OP should have expected the OW to call her H as a result and not done it in the 1st place. Nevertheless I understand the curiousity. It is what it is. It's over and done. Moving right along....

[PhoenixRise]

I never thought she had a bad motive at all.

I don't think she was going to confront the OW or her family - But for those that have been in the shoes of anything remotely like this happening to them.............Isn't driving by - WAY more pain than is necessary? I just believe she's keeping the "wound" open for some reason. She said she doesn't go to that part of town often - so she'd take this opportunity to just drive by???? WHY? I can't be the only one that thinks this is odd behavior for someone that's forgiven her husband & is attempting to move on....Isn't this going backwards?

 

 

Not specifically with regards to an affair - But YES I have...Very much so.

 

 

Kind of comparing apples to oranges

 

 

 

OP doesn't have to do anything specific to keep the wound open. She knows that her H and the OW have the potential to interact everyday at work. THAT keeps the wound open.

 

AND OP explained WHY she did it. She was in the neighborhood for a completely innocent reason that had nothing to do with the OW. Becuase she was already in the neighborhood and she KNOWS her H had sex in that house, she wanted to drive by the house her H had sex in.

 

AND in a case where you have been deliberately betrayed by someone, forgiveness is a PROCESSD. It does not happen all at once and the WS needs to do everything in their power to help that process for it to happen.

 

AND I will say, if it is perfectly normal for a WS to still harbor lingering feelings for the AP long after the affair is over then it is certainly ok for the BS to still harbor lingering feelings after the affair is over.

[Owl]

WWIU - I completely understand, but exactly how does lashing out at a OW help the M? When did 2 wrongs make a right? The OW likely didn't setting out to hurt the OW, but that is what happens. The BS seetting out to hurt the OW for revenge's own sake, well, that's another kettle of fish. It helps nothing, but it is a natural reaction. But of course, I don't think this OP had revenge in mind.

 

I think OP should have expected the OW to call her H as a result and not done it in the 1st place. Nevertheless I understand the curiousity. It is what it is. It's over and done. Moving right along....

 

Driving by the OW's house is not 'lashing out at her'.

 

She didn't do ANYTHING "to" the OW...she drove by her house.

 

In your own case, I would agree that the wife's deliberate 'baiting' of you was a bit overboard. The namecalling in front of you kids was also overboard...but on the flip side of that, it's easy to understand why she hates you so strongly, so deeply that she felt justified in doing so.

 

I disagree that Maddie's drive-by should have set the stage for OW to call her H...not at all. NC is supposed to be PERMANENT. But that's exactly the issue here...NC isn't in place at all...so of course OW felt completely justified for ANY reason to contact Maddie's H.

[MistyK]

AND I will say, if it is perfectly normal for a WS to still harbor lingering feelings for the AP long after the affair is over then it is certainly ok for the BS to still harbor lingering feelings after the affair is over.

 

PR, I consider you very reasonable, and I was wondering if you'd mind answering a question for me....I see alot of talk over here about how the BS's are supposed to nurse the WS through withdrawal and feel empathy for the love they'd lost when the A ends. That sounds like a really tall order. And maybe that makes the BS a "bigger" woman than me, but I can't see doing this.

 

How does one nurse someone they love through grief over a love lost with someone else? I don't think I could stand the idea that my H would be in love with someone else and I'm supposed to feel sorry for him and wait for him to fall back in love with me. Is it truly unconditional love for your H, history, fear of loss, what gets you through something like that?

[Snowflower]

WAY more pain than is necessary? I just believe she's keeping the "wound" open for some reason. She said she doesn't go to that part of town often - so she'd take this opportunity to just drive by???? WHY? I can't be the only one that thinks this is odd behavior for someone that's forgiven her husband & is attempting to move on....Isn't this going backwards?

 

 

 

Looking back at the OP's last post, it appears that she isn't able to move on, much less forgive because her husband's behavior since d-day has been less than trustworthy, IMO.

 

More specifically, he still sees the OW often because he works with her, not to mention his attitude toward the OP after NOT divulging the fact that his FOW had contacted him. This WH kept this information to himself all weekend, according to the OP and then delivered it as a parting shot before he left the house.

 

I can understand why the OP is feeling hurt and betrayed...her husband is showing no remorse for his behavior and even seems to laying it on the OP as "she should be getting over it." or "how dare she drive by the OW's house."

 

Her husband's behavior is troubling to me. It appears from what the OP has posted here that there is still very much a 'team' of sorts between her WH and the OW with the OP stuck on the outside, almost like monkey in the middle.

 

I can certainly hear the OPs pain and confusion in her posts. If my FWH acted like her husband, I would feel the same way as she does...and I would probably be helping him pack his bags.

[MistyK]

Driving by the OW's house is not 'lashing out at her'.

 

She didn't do ANYTHING "to" the OW...she drove by her house.

 

I agree, I was referring to something WWIU said. In THIS case with thiS OP, I don't see the big deal in driving by once.

 

In your own case, I would agree that the wife's deliberate 'baiting' of you was a bit overboard. The namecalling in front of you kids was also overboard...but on the flip side of that, it's easy to understand why she hates you so strongly, so deeply that she felt justified in doing so.

 

Agreed.

 

I disagree that Maddie's drive-by should have set the stage for OW to call her H...not at all. NC is supposed to be PERMANENT. But that's exactly the issue here...NC isn't in place at all...so of course OW felt completely justified for ANY reason to contact Maddie's H.

 

NC has to be maintained on both sides, driving by was taking a risk that maybe didn't need to be taken...that's all I'm saying. I do think the OW overreacted, or maybe she just freaked because her H got upset with her over it. Who knows. Again, for a one-time deal, that's par for the course, and it's over and done with now.

[Owl]

PR, I consider you very reasonable, and I was wondering if you'd mind answering a question for me....I see alot of talk over here about how the BS's are supposed to nurse the WS through withdrawal and feel empathy for the love they'd lost when the A ends. That sounds like a really tall order. And maybe that makes the BS a "bigger" woman than me, but I can't see doing this.

 

How does one nurse someone they love through grief over a love lost with someone else? I don't think I could stand the idea that my H would be in love with someone else and I'm supposed to feel sorry for him and wait for him to fall back in love with me. Is it truly unconditional love for your H, history, fear of loss, what gets you through something like that?

 

I think I'm probably the main person who's talked about "nursing WS through the withdrawl".

 

I wouldn't say that it's truly unconditional love...I don't believe in that critter, myself...but it IS love combined with a lot of empathy, and focused a lot less on oneself than the person you love.

 

I had to deal with exactly this scenario after my wife's EA. Crying herself to sleep everynight, on the couch, while I slept on the loveseat...because NEITHER of us felt good with going back upstairs to our bed. She was heartbroken and devestated over the loss of a fantasy. I was heartbroken and devestated over the potential loss of a reality...our 17 years (at the time) of marriage.

 

But I knew that if we stood a chance, she needed to deal with that first.

 

I knew that if we stood a chance...we had to be able to cope with communicating through about anything...including this.

 

Here's a thought for you, Misty. You would have had to have done the exact same thing if/when you ended up with your MM. He would have had to have grieved the loss of his family and marriage. And he would have...make no mistake. Read the posts over on the OW forum, and you'll see that most of the OW who have "won" their MM had to go through pretty much the exact same state...the only difference is, they weren't the ones betrayed. A BS has to work through BOTH sets of emotions...at the same time.

[PhoenixRise]

PR, I consider you very reasonable, and I was wondering if you'd mind answering a question for me....I see alot of talk over here about how the BS's are supposed to nurse the WS through withdrawal and feel empathy for the love they'd lost when the A ends. That sounds like a really tall order. And maybe that makes the BS a "bigger" woman than me, but I can't see doing this.

 

How does one nurse someone they love through grief over a love lost with someone else? I don't think I could stand the idea that my H would be in love with someone else and I'm supposed to feel sorry for him and wait for him to fall back in love with me. Is it truly unconditional love for your H, history, fear of loss, what gets you through something like that?

 

 

Misty

 

I did NOT attempt to nurse my husband through the loss of his AP. No way in the world I could have done this. I considered the feelings inappropriate and as an adult and a husband who was comitted to winning ME back, those feelings were his own to deal with.

 

NOW I separated from my husband for a while and his OW was not local so he got the chance to sort himself out on his own while I was gone.

 

When we reconciled I understood that we couldn't pretend that the relationship with OW didn't happen or that the feelings involved would just go away in the blink of an eye, but nurse him through it??? NOT IN A MILLION YEARS. That is what therapy is for.

[Snowflower]

 

How does one nurse someone they love through grief over a love lost with someone else? I don't think I could stand the idea that my H would be in love with someone else and I'm supposed to feel sorry for him and wait for him to fall back in love with me. Is it truly unconditional love for your H, history, fear of loss, what gets you through something like that?

 

Good question, Misty. And I completely agree with you as a FBS.

 

I have also read about nursing your spouse through the grief. Looking back, I KNOW now I could have never tried to 'nurse' my husband through his grief or lost love for the OW. That would have been unbearable for me. As much as I wanted to save my marriage after my husband's A, I would have given up if he had been grieving the loss of the OW.

 

I would have considered my marriage "irretrievably broken", or the most common grounds for divorce in my state.

 

My husband's brief PA/inappropriate friendship was difficult enough for me to recover from but I knew for a lot of reasons that he never loved the OW. Like any of these situations, it's difficult and complicated to explain.

 

I can only speak for myself here, but I still felt that there was a chance for my husband and me because the nature of his affair was one I could eventually come to terms with.

 

OTOH, if the worst had happened and he had fallen in love with the OW, I would have felt that the most vital, sacred bond that held us together would have been severed. It would have been pretty much impossible for me to have ever felt the same way about him or our marriage.

 

Sure, I might have tried to hang on for awhile, because of our history together, for our children, and because yes, I would have still cared about him, but eventually I would have left.

 

I know that if my husband had fallen in love with the OW, I would have eventually fallen out of love with him.

 

I know other people will have a different take on this, but I'm just speaking from my own experience and feelings about my husband's EMA.

[MistyK]

Here's a thought for you, Misty. You would have had to have done the exact same thing if/when you ended up with your MM. He would have had to have grieved the loss of his family and marriage. And he would have...make no mistake. Read the posts over on the OW forum, and you'll see that most of the OW who have "won" their MM had to go through pretty much the exact same state...the only difference is, they weren't the ones betrayed. A BS has to work through BOTH sets of emotions...at the same time.

 

Owl, I get that. I grieved the loss of my own M. I don't know what that would have looked like for him because although he moved out he had no boundaries. Or maybe that was his grieving. But to me it just looked like he was dragging his feet and unsure he wanted to fulfill his commitment to me.

 

I wholeheartedly diagree. The OW get betrayed too, just in a diff way. The MM lie to us, break promises, put us last, etc. Stupid as it sounds, I considered it cheating if he had sex with his W after we started a PA. If if OW "win" we still have to deal with betrayal and what we know the MM are capable of. It's not some ride off into the sunset.

[Owl]

Owl, I get that. I grieved the loss of my own M. I don't know what that would have looked like for him because although he moved out he had no boundaries. Or maybe that was his grieving. But to me it just looked like he was dragging his feet and unsure he wanted to fulfill his commitment to me.

 

I wholeheartedly diagree. The OW get betrayed too, just in a diff way. The MM lie to us, break promises, put us last, etc. Stupid as it sounds, I considered it cheating if he had sex with his W after we started a PA. If if OW "win" we still have to deal with betrayal and what we know the MM are capable of. It's not some ride off into the sunset.

 

I see your point...but in a way, you've "signed up for that ride" by getting involved with a married man in the first place. (I don't mean that as an attack...just as a general statement). The BS went into the relationship EXPECTING monogamy. An OW/OM begins the relationship knowing that the MM is cheating from the start.

 

You stil have that same trust issue to deal with...but nowhere near the same level of betrayal.

[MistyK]

I see your point...but in a way, you've "signed up for that ride" by getting involved with a married man in the first place. (I don't mean that as an attack...just as a general statement). The BS went into the relationship EXPECTING monogamy. An OW/OM begins the relationship knowing that the MM is cheating from the start.

 

You stil have that same trust issue to deal with...but nowhere near the same level of betrayal.

 

Good point. But understand that when the MM/MW come to OW/OM, it's based on the premise that the M is qualitatively "over". So for the OW, it feels less like cheating and more like a nail in a coffin. These are guys who are usually saying they'll leave anyway, etc, so it's merely a temporary state of being...it's hard to explain. But I feel like I was still misled, something was in the fine print that I didn't see when I signed on.

 

Agreed that BS live with more betrayal. OW probably live with more fear of betrayal than betrayal itself. But they can be equally destructive. Bear in mind that OW have a bit of knowledge that BS's don't. The BS takes the WH back without really, totally knowing what the A was like. But the OW -We know all the sneaky crap he pulled, all the intense conversations and physical interaction, and we know without a shadow of a doubt that this MM is capable of it. It's like knowing how he'll act if he later decides to cheat again on the fOW. And that's scary. It's like waiting for a knife to get thrown in your back.

 

Ok, sorry for the TJ, Maddie. Thank you for your replies, that's helpful everyone.

[Owl]

Misty, I don't disagree with you about what OW/OM deal with as well.

 

One thing I realized early on after d-day...NONE of us were going to walk away from this unhurt/unscarred.

 

I have absolutely no doubt that OM in my situation was completely emotionally tore up as a result of the whole thing at the end of it either. In the end...she didn't go to him. He probably went through hell as a result of all of this.

[MistyK]

I have absolutely no doubt that OM in my situation was completely emotionally tore up as a result of the whole thing at the end of it either. In the end...she didn't go to him. He probably went through hell as a result of all of this.

 

Probably so. I think if more BS realized this, they'd be less inclined to try to lash out at the OW, because they'd realize they don't have to. The AP's are already getting their comeuppance.

[OFGnomore]

Misty, I don't disagree with you about what OW/OM deal with as well.

 

One thing I realized early on after d-day...NONE of us were going to walk away from this unhurt/unscarred.

 

I have absolutely no doubt that OM in my situation was completely emotionally tore up as a result of the whole thing at the end of it either. In the end...she didn't go to him. He probably went through hell as a result of all of this.

 

OWL,

 

This is why you live true to your moniker. AND this is why I cringe when I read about NS7 and his on/off feelings and AEH's WH had no feelings for a woman he was having sex with 2/3x a week for year and stoppped when caught.

 

I know this sounds harsh folks, to know that you can have feelings for another, I did, xMM did. It's horrible and it brings pain all around. But to get to a better place and I use Owl as an example you got to deal with it ALL to truly heal and to have full intimacy with your spouse. Which is my goal in reconcilation, nothing less.

[Dexter Morgan]

Sorry, but a driveby by the BS compared to an OW sleeping with a BS's husband isn't as devastating

 

 

Kind of comparing apples to oranges

 

that was the point

[Dexter Morgan]

Yes- You're right. For the most part I am -

Because I was one myself. And, because I have changed & I know that others can too...We're not DREADFUL people! We are human beings & we deserve to find love. What we DID was wrong. NO question about that - but we can move on & have very fulfilling lives! contrary to what a lot of others think we deserve.

 

and again, you seem to think YOU are entitled, and there being nothing wrong with it, to have fond memories of your OM.....yet the BS is suppose to forget and not get curious when in the area of the OW's home.

 

In other words, you are slamming her for not "letting go", yet you can reflect on your wonderful time with the OM....therefore NOT letting go.

 

 

I don't believe that the other woman would have called her husband if she hadn't driven by the house. And NO ONE - or the OP has said WHY on earth she did that. Why punish yourself more? I do think what she did was Stalker...ish!

 

of course you do, you are a cheater.

 

here just another reason, especially from testimony from a cheater, why people should move on and leave cheaters in the dust. Their/your mindset is just all f#cked up.

[bentnotbroken]

F the job. If this guy values his marriage, he should panhandle if neccessary.

 

 

Bingo! Family first.

[Dexter Morgan]

Looking back at the OP's last post, it appears that she isn't able to move on, much less forgive because her husband's behavior since d-day has been less than trustworthy, IMO.

 

well it appears that OW and H haven't gone completely no contact.

 

And the H STILL WORKS with the OW. So no, there is no moving on as long as H still has this kind of contact with other woman.

 

She'd be right in dropping an ultimatum and telling him he needs to find another job within, oh, say 2 years.

 

As long as H still has ANY kind of contact with other woman, there is not "moving on" WITH the marriage.

[Owl]

Wow Dex...here's one of the few times where I'm more of a "hard@$$" than you are, my friend.

 

2 years is waaayyyy too long.

 

He needs to find a new job, work out some kind of arrangement where he is no longer in contact with OW IMMEDIATELY...2 months would be the outside limit to this.

 

Yes, I know...the job market is lousy.

 

So is living in a marriage with no trust due to an affair.

 

It boils down to which is more likely to kill the marriage...the lack of funds, or the lack of trust/recovery.

[bentnotbroken]

I never thought she had a bad motive at all.

I don't think she was going to confront the OW or her family - But for those that have been in the shoes of anything remotely like this happening to them.............Isn't driving by - WAY more pain than is necessary? I just believe she's keeping the "wound" open for some reason. She said she doesn't go to that part of town often - so she'd take this opportunity to just drive by???? WHY? I can't be the only one that thinks this is odd behavior for someone that's forgiven her husband & is attempting to move on....Isn't this going backwards?

 

 

Not specifically with regards to an affair - But YES I have...Very much so.

 

 

Kind of comparing apples to oranges

 

Your bolded statement is kind of offensive to me. Not in the sense that it is negative, but that you feel the need to decide what is enough or too or what the BS should be feeling. How they should react, how long it should take to feel like moving forward(or going back for that matter). It is presumptuous to say the least that you believe there should be a point when BS no longer have a reaction, and when that time is.

 

The WS and the AP got to decide to have an affair without input, consideration or time frames from the BS. It isn't it only fitting that they get to heal at the pace they deem necessary instead of the pace of the WS or AP? Any wounds she chooses to open are her decisions to make. Just like the wounds that WS and AP decided to create and inflict on the BS.

[Snowflower]

Wow Dex...here's one of the few times where I'm more of a "hard@$$" than you are, my friend.

 

2 years is waaayyyy too long.

 

He needs to find a new job, work out some kind of arrangement where he is no longer in contact with OW IMMEDIATELY...2 months would be the outside limit to this.

 

Yes, I know...the job market is lousy.

 

So is living in a marriage with no trust due to an affair.

 

It boils down to which is more likely to kill the marriage...the lack of funds, or the lack of trust/recovery.

 

I don't always agree that requiring the WS to find a new job (if they worked with their AP) is necessary or even advisable, considering the current economy.

 

Why add financial stress to a marriage already severely strained by infidelity?

 

If the WS is doing the necessary work for marital recovery, then working with the AP, while not ideal, might not be such a factor.

 

That said, I think in maddiesue's situation, her husband does not appear to be committed to recovering the marriage. He is still in daily contact with his fOW, and doesn't appear to be trying to be honest with maddie either.

 

Maddie's husband needs to find another job, away from the fOW.

 

Like I said, I find it troubling that he had direct contact with the fOW through a phone call about the 'drive by' but he doesn't divulge it to maddie except as a parting shot on his way out the door.

[Dexter Morgan]

Wow Dex...here's one of the few times where I'm more of a "hard@$$" than you are, my friend.

 

then I'm going to have to shift gears here, cuz that is just unacceptable to me that you are more of a hard@ss here!!!!

[confusedinkansas]

Your bolded statement is kind of offensive to me. Not in the sense that it is negative, but that you feel the need to decide what is enough or too or what the BS should be feeling. How they should react, how long it should take to feel like moving forward(or going back for that matter). It is presumptuous to say the least that you believe there should be a point when BS no longer have a reaction, and when that time is.

 

 

It was not directed at you nor was it intended to be offensive. It's bolded because WHY ON EARTH would anyone add pain to a situation on purpose / deliberately that is already painful?

 

The initial affair was painful. YES! Why add salt to an already open wound by driving by the other woman's home?

 

It is presumptuous to say the least that you believe there should be a point when BS no longer have a reaction, and when that time is

 

No I don't presume it takes anyone a certain amount of time to heal (or have no reaction) from anything.(affair or otherwise) We are all different. For some it takes longer than others.