I am pathetic

[jj33]

Why don't more OW's that post here stand up for the BS and the unfair treatment an A dishes out to them? Where's your outrage over their situation?

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Because this forum isnt about BSs. Its about support for the OW/OM.

[bentnotbroken]

Bent with all due respect how is that encouraging (saying walk away if hes sincere he will do anything to be with you) the person is being told to walk away.

 

The OW cant turn back time. They are in it. If they walk away and the MM does leave then its up to them if they want to be with them. And realistically if someone is in love with someone else and they separate or divorce, they may want to pursue a relationship.

 

I think that is a lot different than giving tips. Ideally Im sure youd like the advice to be walk away and forget you ever met him but that is not something that happens overnight.

 

 

That is the example that came off the top of my head, since I am a bit to lazy today to go back through some old posts to dig up more:o forgive me, I don't want to spend my day digging through the archives. There have been tips. Not that I remember from the long term AP here, but certainly it has happened. :oAnd ideally I would like for it to never happen, but we don't live in an ideal world do we?

[PhoenixRise]

I am not a long time poster

 

 

But I think it is pretty clear that the OP was hurting and feeling rejected. In later posts she even admitted she was jealous.

 

The BW bashing in the original post was ugly BUT this is the OW forum. Is is so surprising that an AP who has been recently rejected would express hard feelings toward the BS? No, She posted her feelings in the correct forum and I didn't see anybody else jump on the bash the BW bandwagon.

 

Frankly, IMO her dig at the wife was not the most disturbing thing in her post.

 

She talked about how fabulous she is, then she said she was PLANNING to beg the MM to chose her.

 

She talked about how controlling her H is, then she said she couldn't imagine her life without him, even as she was saying she would leave him in a New York minute if the MM wanted her.

 

OP is clearly a great big ball of pain and confusion right now and lashing out at the wrong target.

Clearly she needs help.

I hope she gets it.

[foreal]

PNK quote:

 

I think I will start asking any new BS's why they were such a failure at meeting their spouses needs to the point where their spouse wanted to cheat. That would help a new BS turn their reflection in and help them become a better person don't you think?

 

...if we follow your logic:

 

let's go ahead and ask the rape victim why she was such a failure at dressing conservatively to the point she made her rapist want to rape her. That would help the rape victim turn their reflection in and help them become a better person don't you think?

 

...or how about, asking any new OW why they were such a failure at meeting their MM's needs to the point their MM wanted to spend the weekend with his wife and kids. That would help the OW turn their reflection in and help them become a better person don't you think?

 

Or how about, asking a new WS whay they are such a failure at meeting their OW's needs to the point she comes on here and laments the fact that he dumped her for his Wife...

 

I could go on and on.....

 

Isn't it possible that each of us is responsible for our own behavior? I don't think the OW's 'failure' to meet their MM needs is the reason he chooses to spend time with his wife...that is HIS choice, driven by HIS needs. Just like it is HIS choice to cheat on his W, driven by HIS selfish needs.

 

Blaming the BS and implying he/she is the reason their WS cheated is as ridiculous as blaming the OW for not keeping her MM happy enough to spend more time with her.

[Mr. Lucky]

Because this forum isnt about BSs. Its about support for the OW/OM.

 

A good point. But if this was a "support" forum for drunk drivers, much of the feedback wouldn't be about the person's wants, needs and feelings, but about understanding the potential impact on the lives of others. To me, that's empathy - the ability to frame your actions within the fabric of the world around you. That understanding seems missing here.

 

The vibe on this forum feels much different. Even NC is often presented as a strategy to force the AP's hand with an ultimate goal in mind. Very few OW's even mention the BS, whether in posting their own story or in advising others, other than in the same perjorative terms the OP used. The BS is the opponent and much of the feedback presented here is on how to win the game. Few OW's seem to question whether or not the OP should even be playing...

 

Mr. Lucky

[GorillaTheater]

A good point. But if this was a "support" forum for drunk drivers, much of the feedback wouldn't be about the person's wants, needs and feelings, but about understanding the potential impact on the lives of others. To me, that's empathy - the ability to frame your actions within the fabric of the world around you. That understanding seems missing here.

 

The vibe on this forum feels much different. Even NC is often presented as a strategy to force the AP's hand with an ultimate goal in mind. Very few OW's even mention the BS, whether in posting their own story or in advising others, other than in the same perjorative terms the OP used. The BS is the opponent and much of the feedback presented here is on how to win the game. Few OW's seem to question whether or not the OP should even be playing...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Outstanding observation, and one I agree with. There is something simply "otherworldly" about this place.

[pkn06002]

PNK quote:

 

I think I will start asking any new BS's why they were such a failure at meeting their spouses needs to the point where their spouse wanted to cheat. That would help a new BS turn their reflection in and help them become a better person don't you think?

 

...if we follow your logic:

 

let's go ahead and ask the rape victim why she was such a failure at dressing conservatively to the point she made her rapist want to rape her. That would help the rape victim turn their reflection in and help them become a better person don't you think?

 

...or how about, asking any new OW why they were such a failure at meeting their MM's needs to the point their MM wanted to spend the weekend with his wife and kids. That would help the OW turn their reflection in and help them become a better person don't you think?

 

Or how about, asking a new WS whay they are such a failure at meeting their OW's needs to the point she comes on here and laments the fact that he dumped her for his Wife...

 

I could go on and on.....

 

Isn't it possible that each of us is responsible for our own behavior? I don't think the OW's 'failure' to meet their MM needs is the reason he chooses to spend time with his wife...that is HIS choice, driven by HIS needs. Just like it is HIS choice to cheat on his W, driven by HIS selfish needs.

 

Blaming the BS and implying he/she is the reason their WS cheated is as ridiculous as blaming the OW for not keeping her MM happy enough to spend more time with her.

 

Oh what upset that I may take the same type of tack with new BS's that some BS here like to give out to new OW/OM???

 

What tough love for a BS is not acceptable?? Making a new BS reflect on their faults is not acceptable?? Oh why is that? What is good for the goose is good for the gander.

 

I particularly enjoying the justification several posters keep giving for why being rude is OK. So I might just follow their lead, since it seems fine and acceptable.

[pkn06002]

You know this really just comes down to different sides of the fence, both which don't agree. But we can learn from each other I will say that WS's do seem more willing to listen to the other side than the other way around. Which does makes this a totally useless conversation since people that will not listen are not willing to learn.

 

I know I will hear "I have nothing to learn from a cheater", well guess what you do. Because most people will be cheated on and as Sun Tuz says "Know yourself and know your enemy and you will win every time". (General statement) BS's seem to believe their way is the only way and therefore you see them here over and over, where they have been cheated on multiple times.

 

So maybe this just comes down to the fact the world is not a rosey and fair as BS's would like it to be and they are incapable of adjusting. So instead they lash out over and over hoping the world will become what they want. Every new WS's becomes a target since it shows them their view of the world is not real.

[whichwayisup]

Making a new BS reflect on their faults is not acceptable?? Oh why is that? What is good for the goose is good for the gander.

 

It isn't when people try to blame a BS for their spouses choice to cheat. A BS is only responsible for her/his part in the demise of the marriage, problems in the marriage. The person at fault for the cheating is the cheater him/her self.

[pkn06002]

It isn't when people try to blame a BS for their spouses choice to cheat. A BS is only responsible for her/his part in the demise of the marriage, problems in the marriage. The person at fault for the cheating is the cheater him/her self.

 

Oh but that is always glossed over and ignored, the focus is always on the cheating. And the failures of the cheater and their AP.

 

But guess what those issues that lead to the demise are the focus for the WS and why they cheat. So I think the whole notion of making a new BS reflect on their failings would be beneficial don't you? Who cares about their current pain because until those issues are addressed the current pain means nothing since nothing will change.

 

That seems to be the BS's way of wanting to deal with WS/OW/OM, focus on the problems not the pain. Helping them through the pain is "coddling". So maybe it is time to do the same to new BS's.

 

Wonder how those threads would go.

[whichwayisup]

Most BS's I know who have posted their situations HAVE taken the blame for their part in the demise of the marriage. But, to blame a BS for a WS choice to cheat is ridiculous.

[pkn06002]

Most BS's I know who have posted their situations HAVE taken the blame for their part in the demise of the marriage. But, to blame a BS for a WS choice to cheat is ridiculous.

 

Really you do?? You must be reading different threads than I am. I see new BS's posting stories of how they must be to blame, but no OWNERSHIP of what they did not do that lead to the demise of the marriage. How THEIR failings made their spouse feel a valid escape was to have and affair.

 

You see post after post of coddling of how NONE of it was their fault and how they did NOTHING wrong. You rarely see posts asking what the BS is doing to address THEIR issues. Just more coddling and preaching to the choir about how they are perfect and how awful the WS and AP are.

 

What you find ridiculous I don't but then again I am from the cheater side of the fence. I understand the motivations unlike you I willing to understand the motivations of the other side and learn.

 

So interesting how BS (and supporters) are all for coddling their side of the fence, but cannot empathize enough with someone in pain on the other side to do the same.

[Reggie]

The debate rages on, with the WS claiming it was the issues in the marriage that caused him to cheat and the BSs saying the pre-cheating issues are unrelated. But, really, no one and no thing can make someone cheat. It is s a decison the Ws makes entirely on his own and there were many other options available to address the problems in the marriage.

At some point, pkn, you need to face the fact that your cheating is a reflection of your lack of character and lack of integrity and problem solving skills.

I have my doubts regarding the relative contributions of you and your wife to the pre-A problems. Based on the way you have treated your wife and kid, not just by cheating but by blaming her for your cheating, I think it is more likely that you were the main contributor to the pre_A problems.

[PhoenixRise]

Oh but that is always glossed over and ignored, the focus is always on the cheating. And the failures of the cheater and their AP.

 

But guess what those issues that lead to the demise are the focus for the WS and why they cheat. So I think the whole notion of making a new BS reflect on their failings would be beneficial don't you? Who cares about their current pain because until those issues are addressed the current pain means nothing since nothing will change.

 

That seems to be the BS's way of wanting to deal with WS/OW/OM, focus on the problems not the pain. Helping them through the pain is "coddling". So maybe it is time to do the same to new BS's.

 

Wonder how those threads would go.

 

 

The difference is that the BS has been harmed by the deliberate actions of others. Actions that are completely out of the BS control. AND in situations where a WS is telling a BS they don't want a divorce, NOTHING healthy can happen in the marriage UNTIL the affair (the deliberate action) is taken care of.

[pkn06002]

The debate rages on, with the WS claiming it was the issues in the marriage that caused him to cheat and the BSs saying the pre-cheating issues are unrelated. But, really, no one and no thing can make someone cheat. It is s a decison the Ws makes entirely on his own and there were many other options available to address the problems in the marriage.

At some point, pkn, you need to face the fact that your cheating is a reflection of your lack of character and lack of integrity and problem solving skills.

I have my doubts regarding the relative contributions of you and your wife to the pre-A problems. Based on the way you have treated your wife and kid, not just by cheating but by blaming her for your cheating, I think it is more likely that you were the main contributor to the pre_A problems.

 

Well you finally showed up in this thread then want to make it personal with me?

 

No one or no thing can make someone cheat?? That is your premise huh? Well you cannot make anyone do anything in reality. Like making BS's act civil to people they do not agree with. Or getting a BS to own up to their own faults instead of justifying their behavior by comparing it to other people. So yes cheating is a choice, so what.

 

(Now lets go to the personal part of your post)

 

Problem solving skills?

I am not a two time loser in picking a spouse, so you want to compare problem solving skills?

 

Lack of character? Unless you have NO flaws, you can make no claim to that.

 

Integrity??? I can give you that one. But then again my moto is "what is mine is mine and what is yours can be mine if taken correctly." I don't live in the fairy tail world you seem to think exists.

 

What is funny about your analysis about my wife and me, is your wrong. Oh and how do I know your wrong a trained professional (our MC) agreed with me. So seems your analytical skills are not as sharp as you claim.

 

Tell me how did you get such and inflated view of you yourself? Is that maybe the your main flaw that got your two wifes to chose to cheat on you.

[pkn06002]

The difference is that the BS has been harmed by the deliberate actions of others. Actions that are completely out of the BS control. AND in situations where a WS is telling a BS they don't want a divorce, NOTHING healthy can happen in the marriage UNTIL the affair (the deliberate action) is taken care of.

 

Oh so any harm to the WS pre-affair has no bearing huh? Convenient

 

The BS (in most cases) has plenty of control they just need to follow simple steps to keep the marriage a happy one.

 

I guess the harm you mention above gives license to BS's (current and former) to be rude and nasty to new OW/OM??? Their pain gets to override someone else's? Yet BS's like to spout out over and over how a WS should think about how they effect others before they take actions, why to BS's not follow their own ideas??

[foreal]

The debate rages on, with the WS claiming it was the issues in the marriage that caused him to cheat and the BSs saying the pre-cheating issues are unrelated. But, really, no one and no thing can make someone cheat. It is s a decison the Ws makes entirely on his own and there were many other options available to address the problems in the marriage.

At some point, pkn, you need to face the fact that your cheating is a reflection of your lack of character and lack of integrity and problem solving skills.

I have my doubts regarding the relative contributions of you and your wife to the pre-A problems. Based on the way you have treated your wife and kid, not just by cheating but by blaming her for your cheating, I think it is more likely that you were the main contributor to the pre_A problems.

 

 

I think good advise for the WS is for them to explore what is missing in THEM.

 

So their S is an evil, horrible person who makes Leona Helmsley look like a great gal........but so what?

 

that may lead to the cheater losing love for the S, but CMON!!!.... then divorce them! Or at least seperate from them, have the decency to let them know you are out the door before you do this horrible thing.

 

And for some WS, they are in the pot of boiling water before they even realize it...but once they hop out, they say oh god what have I done, my god this was MY HORRIBLE CHOICE b.c I have some serious issues I need to deal with and obviosly I lack something inside of me and I AM RESPONSIBLE FOR MY ACTIONS NOT MY BS!

 

Instead you seem to turn to the BS and say, "BOO HOO YOU THREW ME IN THAT POT OF BOILING WATER YOU MEANIE IT IS ALL YOUR FAULT!"

 

Perhaps the BS even filled up the pot, even turned the burners on, but the WS is the one who hopped in to that pot when he/she could have walked away from it..and once they did hop in then hop out, for the love of god own it as YOUR choice to hop along (and on) the OP.

 

otherwise, the WS remains in their twisted, fantasy world where obviously they were and continue to be miserable...nobody else can make you happy, you have to find it from within.

 

 

ribbit...

[pkn06002]

Foreal wow blameshifting how convenient.

 

Why are BS's so afraid to view their issues, yet so like to point out those of others???

 

As a WS when your BS tears into you that is all part of the process and the results of an affair. But tell me why do BS's you are not the WS of seem to feel the right to do the same to you??? I mean talk about a self delusion of purpose.

[LaGazelle]

Dex, I noticed you launching into a tirade about how she has no conscience. It is a natural tendency for OW to feel competitive with the W and when you lose it's hard to come up with any other explanation than you weren't worth it. That's a tough pill to swallow. MM is constantly choosing another woman (his W) over you..... It makes you feel worthless and if she needs to feel like she's prettier than the W (a thought which she will no doubt keep to herself and not yell at the W, what's the harm?). Besides, you have to remember, that MM undoubtedly engendered this image of his W to OW. They always tear their W down for the OW to make the OW feel special and justify the A.

 

There is plenty of time for guilt, but right now she's hurting and all your stone throwing resolves nothing.

 

In my experience, not all MM interested in affairs "tear their wives down". Perhaps many do, but certainly not all. The last 4 MM who tried to "test" me, did the opposite. Part of the problem is that many OW conjure up opportunities to tear down wives in order to feel better about themselves and their choice to pursue affairs.

 

I suspect the MM use the "tear down" approach with OW who they think will buy it, but in my own experience, the MM who have come after me, spoke fondly of their wives and were proud of how accomplished and elegant their wives are. The message seems to be "I have great taste in women".

 

Either way, whether a man praises of his wife and says the potential OW has uncanny similarities, or talks badly about his wife and intimates that the potential OW would be an "upgrade" - the underlying rationale is the same. It is done to invoke a competitive spirit in the OW. As long as a woman has her wits about her, and realises that, the more likely she is to avoid placing herself in the affair trap.

 

Men recognise that insecure and vulnerable women compete inordinately for men's attention. If a MM intersested in an A spots an opportunity and rightly or wrongly, perceives any vulnerability, he will dig the hole (using either approach) and get the OW to jump in. It is up to women to protect themselves from that.

[PhoenixRise]

Oh so any harm to the WS pre-affair has no bearing huh? Convenient

 

The BS (in most cases) has plenty of control they just need to follow simple steps to keep the marriage a happy one.

 

I guess the harm you mention above gives license to BS's (current and former) to be rude and nasty to new OW/OM??? Their pain gets to override someone else's? Yet BS's like to spout out over and over how a WS should think about how they effect others before they take actions, why to BS's not follow their own ideas??

 

 

 

You admitted in a previous post just a little while ago that cheating is as choice made by a WS.

 

There is nothing anyone can do to stop them if a WS choses to cheat surely you know this. Yes, a BS may contribute to the marital problems. Yes there may be changes a BS needs to make to improve the marriage. BUT nothing forces someone to cheat as a coping mechanism.

 

There are many ways for a WS to deal with any harm they have felt, cheating is not a given nor is it the only option.

 

AND I have never said that one person in pain has license to harm another person in pain. Are you always in fighting mode? In my post regarding this OP I said she was clearly in pain and needed help and that I hope she gets help. Are all BS the same to you?

[foreal]

Foreal wow blameshifting how convenient.

 

Why are BS's so afraid to view their issues, yet so like to point out those of others???

 

As a WS when your BS tears into you that is all part of the process and the results of an affair. But tell me why do BS's you are not the WS of seem to feel the right to do the same to you??? I mean talk about a self delusion of purpose.

 

shellooooo?? the point in here is to help YOU , the WS, as you and your compadres have pointed out...

 

no doubt BSs have their own issues, the M itself has issues, but figuring out why the BS chose to betray their S is not one of them- but it IS for the WS... would you agree? if the WS cannot look at what INSIDE of THEM drove them to make that CHOICE, then fuggitaboutit....

 

and I think perhaps the WS got plenty of 'tearing into the BS processing time' while hopping on the OP, if that isn't ripping the BS up then what is?

 

....at least the WS knows why the BS is pissed: b/c they were betrayed..the BS meanwhile usually has no clue their WS is pissed/lonely/depressed/neglected etc to the point they have left the marriage since the WS forgot to mention they were banging the OP.

 

I do hope you are able to look within yourself to discover what is is that was/is missing in YOU that led YOU to make a terrible choice ...maybe you can ask your MC if he/she believes that might be helpful for you?

[LaGazelle]

It isn't about volition or guilt or responsibility - my point is someone is hurting, and we needn't kick them when they're down regardless of how they got there.

 

Being a OW isn't fun. It's incredibly painful, and I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. Arguably the only thing that's close to being in the same arena is being a BS, (but let me not open the floodgates for everyone to say how much worse it is to be a BS and the OW chooses her position - blah blah.) Bottom line is it isn't glamourous, and it isn't fun, and I never said it was.

 

 

Misty, honestly, this is very rich coming from you. Perhaps the statement above would make sense coming from you, if you substituted "someone" with "OW", because some of the posts from you to BWs in despair seem to serve no other purpose than to be callous. It seems as though, not content with just kicking BWs when they're down, you stomp all over them.

 

Perhaps you are not a usually a callous person, and it is just due to the anonimity of an online forum...

[MistyK]

 

I suspect the MM use the "tear down" approach with OW who they think will buy it,

 

IS this a thinly veiled way to call me stupid? Not appreciated.

 

but in my own experience, the MM who have come after me, spoke fondly of their wives and were proud of how accomplished and elegant their wives are. The message seems to be "I have great taste in women".

 

And i would stay away from that with a 100 ft pole because that guy is transparently looking to build a harem. But hey, at least he's upfront.

 

Either way, whether a man praises of his wife and says the potential OW has uncanny similarities, or talks badly about his wife and intimates that the potential OW would be an "upgrade" - the underlying rationale is the same. It is done to invoke a competitive spirit in the OW. As long as a woman has her wits about her, and realises that, the more likely she is to avoid placing herself in the affair trap.

 

Ok, fair enough, but then why is no one placing blame on the puppeteer and throwing fire at the OW? Wouldn't it be nice if we all "had our wits about us" and didn't have all variety of emotional baggage and naivete...but we all have our weak moments, perhaps even you do too.

 

Men recognise that insecure and vulnerable women compete inordinately for men's attention.

 

Offense taken. There's nothing inordinate about it. Is that a nice way of calling us wh*res? And OW have every reason to be insecure - we are after all dealing with cheaters (who by definition "cheat" on us with the W's). To be honest, as manipulative as my MM is, he's WAAAY more insecure than me. And he should be, considering how he treats me 1/2 the time.

 

If a MM intersested in an A spots an opportunity and rightly or wrongly, perceives any vulnerability, he will dig the hole (using either approach) and get the OW to jump in. It is up to women to protect themselves from that.

 

Again, it's always the woman's fault. Men can't help themselves. They're unenlightened apes, and we women have to be responsible for them because they can't be responsible for themselves. All misogynistic crap. To use the earlier analogy, I suppose it is the woman fault when she gets raped because she didn't protect herself from the rapist enough.

[foreal]

In my experience, not all MM interested in affairs "tear their wives down". Perhaps many do, but certainly not all. The last 4 MM who tried to "test" me, did the opposite. Part of the problem is that many OW conjure up opportunities to tear down wives in order to feel better about themselves and their choice to pursue affairs.

 

I suspect the MM use the "tear down" approach with OW who they think will buy it, but in my own experience, the MM who have come after me, spoke fondly of their wives and were proud of how accomplished and elegant their wives are. The message seems to be "I have great taste in women".

 

Either way, whether a man praises of his wife and says the potential OW has uncanny similarities, or talks badly about his wife and intimates that the potential OW would be an "upgrade" - the underlying rationale is the same. It is done to invoke a competitive spirit in the OW. As long as a woman has her wits about her, and realises that, the more likely she is to avoid placing herself in the affair trap.

 

Men recognise that insecure and vulnerable women compete inordinately for men's attention. If a MM intersested in an A spots an opportunity and rightly or wrongly, perceives any vulnerability, he will dig the hole (using either approach) and get the OW to jump in. It is up to women to protect themselves from that.

 

Lagazelle, a wonderful post...I wish more OW had that kind of insight and maturity.

 

Tis true, not all MM tear down their wife..in fact, my WHs MOW got pissed off that he did not do so and he got pissed at her for saying negative things about me (I read their texts)...very odd to read my WH defending me then heading back to the MOW for more....just showed how wacked outta his mind a WS is.

[MistyK]

Misty, honestly, this is very rich coming from you. Perhaps the statement above would make sense coming from you, if you substituted "someone" with "OW", because some of the posts from you to BWs in despair seem to serve no other purpose than to be callous. It seems as though, not content with just kicking BWs when they're down, you stomp all over them.

 

Perhaps you are not a usually a callous person, and it is just due to the anonimity of an online forum...

 

I call B.S. Show me ONE post that has that tone. 1.