What social skills are necessary in order to be approached by desirable strangers?

[Lights]

Lights, that is not how people WANT to be approached. If that is what you've been saying by way of introducing yourself, starting a conversation, or inviting people into your life, it will not work how you want/hope it to work.

How then do people want to be approached? And, more relevantly, how do people get approached? I'm not seeing even an approach that presumably crude coming my way.

 

If I tried saying that for my "approach", I'd expect to get a lot of blank, confused or frightened stares from the people to whom I said it. What is the reaction that you've been getting most often?

No reaction. Many just walk right by before I can complete the sentence. But such can be said about any approach, though.

 

You could try books like: How To Win Friends And Influence People; How To Talk To Anyone; How To Make People Like You In 90 Seconds Or Less; Fierce Conversations: Achieving Success At Work And In Life One Conversation At A Time.

(Checking the 'customer reviews' at amazon.com could help you decide which one best fits your needs.)

I was pretty disgusted with How To Win Friends and Influence People, but I'll take a look at the others. Thanks for the recommendations.

 

"Hakeem" is only going to want you on his project if he knows, or has enough information about you for him to be able to make a really good educated guess, that YOU are able to help in score his A.

 

"Hakeem" will NOT approach you if you're just some random stranger who happens to be in the same class(es) with him. He will NOT invite you to work on his project if he has no awareness of your own intellect, work ethic, skills, talents and ability to communicate and work well as part of a team.

That's where something's gone wrong; those are precisely the constraints which I am forced to work with. In real life, I don't get to know ahead of time who's even worth an initial approach at all, let alone who the best of the best in the area is. I am stuck having to do said approaches anyways and find out the hard way, or else guarantee my isolation. In the beginning of a situation of any sort, there is little information available regarding anyone's skill in anything. So I am stuck doing exactly what you consider so unlikely; approaching strangers who happen to be co-located, with minimal information on hand.

 

What is baffling to me is this: Just why is it that people aren't so willing to play by those very same rules that I am forced to play by? And why is it that when I am the one doing precisely those approaches, that it is taken for granted?

 

 

As much as you don't appear to want those to be part of your solution, they are nonetheless part of your solution. That is how people choose their teammates...and their friends. It's based on what is already known about [you], gathered from first impressions of you, by observing you, seeing how you interact with others, and the general 'vibe' that you give off.

I'm sure that's true, but this stuff's been going on even when that information is absent. (There's little to be inferred from sitting in a classroom the facing front, like everyone else, or for that matter when one has already passed by on the street not having noticed the other.)

[Ronni_W]

Hey Lights.

You are asking some difficult questions -- I'm going to work on them and repost, alright?

 

In the meantime, may I suggest that you consider inviting Trimmer back to your thread? When you open your heart, you may come to realize that his contributions (as well as some others) are most relevant and coming from a very compassionate place.

 

I don't know what will work FOR HIM, so I'd suggest a general type of "approach".

Maybe something like, "Trimmer, I appreciate that you were trying to help me. Sorry I got a little snippy...it just gets so frustrating for me sometimes. If you're up for it, I'd really like you to rejoin the 'conversation'."

And then hope like hell that he will oblige you. (In his place, I don't know -- you let your frustration get the better of you, and he may not wish to put himself in harm's way again.)

 

Now, Lights. That right there is just ONE example of how to "approach". It's specific to this situation, where you've actually "run out of town" someone who WAS going to be able to help you achieve what you really want to achieve.

 

Trimmer (if you are still 'here'.) I hope that you won't mind me 'using you' to illustrate a point.

 

Lights. That was me being aware that I WAS 'using' Trimmer, and he may not at all appreciate it. If what I did will annoy him, he has the perfect right to be annoyed, and I will apologize as soon as he lets me know that I overstepped HIS boundary.

Real relationships are also being aware about what we do NOT know about others.

 

Anyway. I'll repost as soon as I have something coherent to post . Like I said, though, I'm sensing that I sure could use Trimmer's help...but only YOU can remedy that situation by inviting him back. Know what I mean?

[Trimmer]

Trimmer (if you are still 'here'.) I hope that you won't mind me 'using you' to illustrate a point.

No problem for me, although you have to realize that it kind of backs Lights into a corner...

 

He and I have exchanged very cordial PM's, and I don't feel like he needs to do anything further here.

 

You make some good points with your examples, though - maybe we can consider them as generalized hypotheticals, instead of expecting Lights to actually act anything out specifically.

[Ronni_W]

Lights,

Sorry it took me a while to repost. And also for the length of this one…Like I said, tough questions.

 

How then do people want to be approached? And, more relevantly, how do people get approached? I'm not seeing even an approach that presumably crude coming my way.

 

In general, people want to know “What’s in it for me?” So, when we approach others, it’s always a good idea to let them know up-front. Specific to your question, something like: “Hi, I’m Ronni. I’m putting together a team for <whatever project.> Last year I finished this course with an A, and so far I’m averaging B+. [Right now, I’ve got Sue and John lined up, as well.] Would you like to get together [with the rest of us] so we can talk about the pros and cons of maybe working together?”

 

Generally. Give the person information about what kind of grades they MIGHT expect if s/he teamed up with you. Your prior grades also suggest what type of student you are (does not guarantee, but does offer some clues.) If there are others on the team, say that, too, so the potential new team member can do their ‘homework’ about the other teammates, as well.

However. You both [all existing members of the group] STILL have to get-together in a more relaxed/social setting to assess how well all the PERSONALITIES mesh, find out about work ethics, specific skills, communication and interpersonal abilities, etc., etc.

 

No reaction. Many just walk right by before I can complete the sentence. But such can be said about any approach, though.

 

No, such cannot be said about “any” approach – only the approaches that are inadequate to draw people in, to give them something to be interested about/look forward to if they decide to befriend you. “I just thought to meet you,” does not even give them anything to respond to. The only thing I can think to say back to that is, “Uh, okay.”

 

The goal of any approach is to give them a REASON to want to get to KNOW you…not just to meet you. The “meet” part lasts about 3 seconds. After you say, “Hi, I’m Lights. I just thought to meet you,” and I say, “Hey, I’m Ronni. Good to meet you” … then we are done! You haven’t given me anything else TO DO but walk away because your STATED goal has been accomplished. If I hang around after that, then *I* am a nutjob!

 

I was pretty disgusted with How To Win Friends and Influence People, but I'll take a look at the others. Thanks for the recommendations.

 

No prob. But I’m kinda doubting that you’d be any less “disgusted” with the others. Do you recall what it was that got you feeling that way about ‘How To Win Friends’?

 

That's where something's gone wrong; those are precisely the constraints which I am forced to work with. … In the beginning of a situation of any sort, there is little information available

Just why is it that people aren't so willing to play by those very same rules that I am forced to play by?

Lights, you are NOT the only one working within current, common, generally accepted social/relationship/academic/workplace norms and “rules”! We are ALL playing by exactly the same. Where some may be doing it a bit ‘smarter’ than you, is that they’re on the LOOK-OUT for the information that you do not appear to be gathering. As I said in previous, it is about observing: how people ‘carry’ themselves to and from their seats – are they slouching/lacking confidence or ‘walking tall’; if and how they participate in general discussions; whether or not they are too timid to even ask or answer questions in class; do they make eye contact with the professor or OTHER students; who hangs back after class to talk with the prof?

 

(You can also examine how YOU would ‘rate’ to your fellow classmates, based on those types of criteria – the things they can learn about you just by the way looking at and observing you for a week or two.)

 

There is PLENTY of information that is ALWAYS available and just waiting for you to notice…but you have to engage all your senses, including intelligence, intuition and perception if you actually want to take advantage of all of it. In any case, even if you do NOT consider this to be “plenty”, it still is ONLY what the rest of us have to consider and assess, as well.

We’re all playing by the same rules – some are just taking advantage of what is “out there” and available whereas, for whatever reason(s), you’ve not been focusing on uncovering that information for yourself. In reality, EVERYONE who is ‘playing the game’ (and we all are) has access to the SAME storehouse of info, some are just better than others, at utilizing it.

 

You CAN become proficient at it, too. But it would require you to [1] give up your sense that others have some type of unfair advantage or aren’t limited by the same set of “rules” and, [2] start honing your skills in the areas mentioned above, instead of ignoring/denying/dismissing how important and valuable it is in building solid, happy, mutually rewarding work and personal relationships.

 

The information that you feel to be “absent” for you is due to your own (limited) perceptions and (limiting) ways of thinking about, looking at, and seeing the people around you…and the world, in general.

That SAME information is NOT absent for others ONLY BECAUSE they acknowledge its’ importance and make conscientious efforts to collect, retain and use the data to their advantage. It may seem that others have an unfair advantage or are not playing by the “same rules” but, in fact, they are working like hell to ‘see’, and properly interpret and assimilate what they’re observing about the people around them and the world in general.

 

As to any person’s specific academic and interpersonal skill set – that is why you ask people to get-together AFTER your initial approach…to learn about that from them, and to tell them about your own. It is called relationship “building” for a reason – there is a natural progression. You can’t get everything done in one or two sentences. None of us can. The ‘game’ is not played that way…and the rest of us don’t expect it to be played that way. Sometimes the ‘game’ is plain hard work.

 

If I could ask – have you considered working with an interpersonal coach or therapist to help you learn how to have and use these types of “intangible assets” that are equally important to achieving goals, and attaining happiness and success?

[Ronni_W]

No problem for me,

Thanks muchly, Trimmer. I wasn't expecting anything of Lights, and didn't necessarily mean/need for him to do anything, here or privately.

 

Lights, sorry if you ended up feeling uncomfortable or annoyed on my account. I was more trying to do what Trimmer suggests, as far as "generalized hypotheticals" -- examples of different ways of communicating with others -- assessing what, how and when might be necessary, appropriate and/or useful.

[Lights]

In general, people want to know “What’s in it for me?” So, when we approach others, it’s always a good idea to let them know up-front....

However. You both [all existing members of the group] STILL have to get-together in a more relaxed/social setting to assess how well all the PERSONALITIES mesh, find out about work ethics, specific skills, communication and interpersonal abilities, etc., etc.

I'm sure that's true. But what gets that sort of approach coming my way on a regular basis?

 

No, such cannot be said about “any” approach – only the approaches that are inadequate to draw people in, to give them something to be interested about/look forward to if they decide to befriend you.

I won't question that. But what then of the matter of people walking by before I can complete the set of words in question in moving situations?

 

Lights, you are NOT the only one working within current, common, generally accepted social/relationship/academic/workplace norms and “rules”! We are ALL playing by exactly the same. Where some may be doing it a bit ‘smarter’ than you, is that they’re on the LOOK-OUT for the information that you do not appear to be gathering. As I said in previous, it is about observing: how people ‘carry’ themselves to and from their seats – are they slouching/lacking confidence or ‘walking tall’; if and how they participate in general discussions; whether or not they are too timid to even ask or answer questions in class; do they make eye contact with the professor or OTHER students; who hangs back after class to talk with the prof?

I was mainly asking about immediate approaches, not ones that take days or weeks of observations and guesswork. The criteria you describe are a common (though not necessarily very accurate in my experience) set of tactics I have myself employed in similar situations should the pacing of said situations be sufficiently slow and/or the requirements for team projects be later on. However, it doesn't result in desirables walking directly up and even so much as introducing themselves, not even in situations wherein I embody all the "positive" behaviors.

 

As to any person’s specific academic and interpersonal skill set – that is why you ask people to get-together AFTER your initial approach

I'm sure that's true, but it hasn't been happening.

[utterer of lies]

That's where something's gone wrong; those are precisely the constraints which I am forced to work with. In real life, I don't get to know ahead of time who's even worth an initial approach at all, let alone who the best of the best in the area is. I am stuck having to do said approaches anyways and find out the hard way, or else guarantee my isolation. In the beginning of a situation of any sort, there is little information available regarding anyone's skill in anything. So I am stuck doing exactly what you consider so unlikely; approaching strangers who happen to be co-located, with minimal information on hand.

 

No. Already upon entering the classroom, there are a lot of social and behavioral cues to get. But you don't.

 

 

And why is it that when I am the one doing precisely those approaches, that it is taken for granted?

 

Because they judge you to be below them in dominance.

 

I'm sure that's true, but this stuff's been going on even when that information is absent. (There's little to be inferred from sitting in a classroom the facing front

 

Wrong. There's a huge amount of information to be inferred, at least as long as your are not sitting in the front row. And even if you are, people will be talking/whispering/... in class, you can see who's an active participant, ...

 

 

 

I guess most people think you are 'weird', and therefore try to avoid you. I see you avoided replying to any notions that you might be suffering from Asperger's or Autism except for the book recommendations. Do you know or believe that you might be afflicted with this?

[Ronni_W]

I was mainly asking about immediate approaches, not ones that take days or weeks of observations and guesswork.

Hey Lights.

You're putting yourself at a disadvantage because you don't want to play by the "rules" of the "game". Everybody else has to, and we are, making the time and effort that are prerequisites for mutually beneficial, supportive and uplifting work, team, school and personal relationships.

 

There isn't any way to "short-cut" the process. Instant gratification here is just not an option; it is an unrealistic expectation/goal. The longer you make that your ONLY focus and goal, the more disadvantaged you will be and the more limited will be your success. You are doing that to yourself.

 

I'm not sure if I've already suggested the following links. They may help you to see the futility of your "quest". It's the same as chasing the end of the rainbow for its' purported pot of gold. It really is, Lights.

 

~ http://webhome.idirect.com/~kehamilt/ipsyeq.html

~ http://helpguide.org/mental/improve_relationships.htm

~ http://eqi.org/eqe96_1.htm

~ http://ezinearticles.com/?Emotional-Intelligence---Business-Communication-Skills-Training-Tip-2&id=1599462

 

The last also has links to related articles, at the bottom.

[Lights]

Hey Lights.

You're putting yourself at a disadvantage because you don't want to play by the "rules" of the "game". Everybody else has to, and we are, making the time and effort that are prerequisites for mutually beneficial, supportive and uplifting work, team, school and personal relationships.

 

There isn't any way to "short-cut" the process. Instant gratification here is just not an option; it is an unrealistic expectation/goal. The longer you make that your ONLY focus and goal, the more disadvantaged you will be and the more limited will be your success. You are doing that to yourself.

 

Thanks for the links.

 

Sometimes the need for an apparent "shortcut" is forced up on one. Not all group activities last for weeks on end. (Something similar happened to me during a work training activity which only lasted a few days total.)

 

I'm not asking for instant gratification. Just lots of free-flowing direct approaches coming my way on a routine basis, even from the beginning of a situation or even when there's minimal information or no chance for repeated exposure otherwise; all of this is considered mundane and ordinary and to be taken for granted when I myself do it.

 

I've noticed that you haven't mentioned anything regarding people approaching me, though.

[Ronni_W]

I've noticed that you haven't mentioned anything regarding people approaching me, though.

Only somebody who knows you personally, who can observe how you act and come across in real life, will be able to offer you anything constructive about your approachability, Lights.

For that, professional help/support will most likely be your fastest and most effective route.

 

If you are interested in performing a self-assessment, there are a couple of links at the bottom of the page of the first link in my last post.

[Lights]

It does not stop!

 

I want to cry, but even tears are worthless and pointless...

 

No matter what I seek, no matter what I try, I just seem to relive this same old crap. It's driving me out of my mind!

 

Can anyone else point me to any resources that work? Is there anyone here who's ever actually experienced this and has solved it in their life?

 

If there is anyone here who is in the know, please help me. This is hurting a lot.

Edited October 17, 2009 by Lights

[Odyssey]

Hey man, what's eating you up? I might be wrong, but it sounds like you're still beating yourself up, out of frustration over this social skill thing. Why do you put so much pressure on yourself?

[on_point]

The whole problem with this is you are asking for something that is not and never will be in your control.

 

No matter how good your social skills you will never be the one who decides if you will get approached or not.

 

I can tell you my own experience. I get approached on occasion. But I also have no problem approaching others, especially in a work or school setting. And so it flows both ways and maybe that is the hardest part of it all.

 

To have the best chance of getting approached you have to be open to approaching.

 

Trimmer is completely right. You need someone to observe in person, to feel their energy and to analyze their body language.

[Lights]

Hey man, what's eating you up? I might be wrong, but it sounds like you're still beating yourself up, out of frustration over this social skill thing. Why do you put so much pressure on yourself?

 

I wish it was as you describe. I'm not the one doing the beating...

 

Nor is it about me pressuring myself. I'm not creating the pressure! I didn't compel the instructors in school situations to make group projects mandatory. Nor am I the one who is forcing people to show ineptitude and cowardice in other interpersonal situations.

 

It's just beyond frustrating that it does not end, and that I seem still unable to change the situation and that people in my area still are hypocritical trash who dare to expect of me (and even take for granted!) behaviors that they do not themselves uphold.

 

And the years turn to decades, and the situations do not change.

 

And so it flows both ways and maybe that is the hardest part of it all.

 

It has not, and has never been, flowing both ways in my life.

Edited October 19, 2009 by Lights

[on_point]

 

It's just beyond frustrating that it does not end, and that I seem still unable to change the situation and that people in my area still are hypocritical trash who dare to expect of me (and even take for granted!) behaviors that they do not themselves uphold.

 

And the years turn to decades, and the situations do not change.

 

 

 

It has not, and has never been, flowing both ways in my life.

 

I can only speak from my own experience. I understand deeply the feeling of wishing others to do the approaching in social interactions.

 

I grew up being extremely shy and awkward in social interactions. I always enjoyed it, if by the rare chance someone did decide to even just acknowledge I existed.

 

And luckily for me I realized at a young age that I wanted to be proactive with my life. That I wanted to make decisions and not live a passive life waiting for things to happen.

 

I didn't want to let other people have that power over me; to make me feel a certain way because of what they did or didn't do to me. And so I try my best to trust in myself more than everything else in the world, and so far it's been working well.

 

I guess what I'm getting at, and forgive me if I'm derailing your thread Lights, is that you're letting yourself be a victim of other people's actions and perceptions.

 

The more complete and better I became overall as an individual, and the more I trust and believe in myself, ultimately the more attractive and likable I became to others.

 

I don't know why it works like this, but this is just my own personal experience with a similar situation.

 

I hope you find what you're searching for Lights.

[Odyssey]

...I realized at a young age that I wanted to be proactive with my life. That I wanted to make decisions and not live a passive life waiting for things to happen.

 

The more complete and better I became overall as an individual, and the more I trust and believe in myself, ultimately the more attractive and likable I became to others.

Ditto. Although my situation and environment was obviously different, like you, i'd also found the same conclusion.

 

And the years turn to decades, and the situations do not change.

Light, decades you say, wow! So everyone behaves the same way towards you (what about your family & friends)? Can you give some examples of your situation 'cause i still don't understand.

[Lights]

I can only speak from my own experience. I understand deeply the feeling of wishing others to do the approaching in social interactions.

 

I grew up being extremely shy and awkward in social interactions. I always enjoyed it, if by the rare chance someone did decide to even just acknowledge I existed.

 

And luckily for me I realized at a young age that I wanted to be proactive with my life. That I wanted to make decisions and not live a passive life waiting for things to happen.

 

I didn't want to let other people have that power over me; to make me feel a certain way because of what they did or didn't do to me. And so I try my best to trust in myself more than everything else in the world, and so far it's been working well.

 

My proactivity is not in question.

 

I think trusting in oneself is great. But I didn't compel things to start requiring me to also get caught up in things like trusting other people too.

 

I guess what I'm getting at, and forgive me if I'm derailing your thread Lights, is that you're letting yourself be a victim of other people's actions and perceptions.

How is that?

 

The more complete and better I became overall as an individual, and the more I trust and believe in myself, ultimately the more attractive and likable I became to others.

Ok. I don't know what complete and better means here, though.

 

 

I hope you find what you're searching for Lights.

Thanks, on_point.

 

Ditto. Although my situation and environment was obviously different, like you, i'd also found the same conclusion.

 

 

Light, decades you say, wow! So everyone behaves the same way towards you (what about your family & friends)? Can you give some examples of your situation 'cause i still don't understand.

 

The friends are gone. Nothing crazy there.

 

Most of the earlier parts of this thread are examples of the situation. I don't know how to get direct immediate approaches (in social situations) or high-quality recruitment efforts (in more purpose-driven situations such as group projects etc.) coming my way from the top of the crop (or from anyone for that matter), on a regular basis, and in any reasonable location.

 

It's all taken for granted when I take said actions, though. (And lest anyone go off with "you need to be so special and wonderful for approaches from desirable strangers to happen", let's not forget that the people I might find myself around aren't exactly all Nobel Prize winners and saints, and yet they get approached by a stranger [me].)

 

I want that inequality changed.

Edited October 19, 2009 by Lights

[Odyssey]

The friends are gone. Nothing crazy there.

...people I might find myself around aren't exactly all Nobel Prize winners and saints, and yet they get approached by a stranger [me].)

I want that inequality changed.

No friends? Sorry to hear that.

- What about your family? How do they behave towards you compared to other people?

- What happens when you approach people?

- Why do you think people should approach you?

[Lights]

No friends? Sorry to hear that.

No worries. It happens over time. I'm not too troubled by it--they all come and go really.

 

- What about your family? How do they behave towards you compared to other people?

 

I don't have problems with my family.

 

- What happens when you approach people?

 

Inside things like classes, results vary. Recent responses from two current classmates were ok, but from others were not.

 

Outside such situations, things are vastly skewed towards negative or non-responses, regardless of choices of technique.

 

But that's not really the topic under discussion. This thread isn't called "What social skills are necessary to perform a good approach to a stranger within a given identified context?". Though, if you would like, I can start a thread to discuss that.

 

- Why do you think people should approach you?

 

I really don't like that sort of talk. Why "should" anyone approach anyone, really? Why "should" one person end up with someone breaking the ice in their directions and another not?

Edited October 20, 2009 by Lights

[Odyssey]

I'm just trying to get a vague benchmark, since i know nothing about you (i'm not even sure whether you're acting in a way that make you unapproachable or it's just something with those strangers). Since you say, you don't have a problem with your family and approaching is not an issue for you...

 

...Then i can only guess that, like a lot of people you're chasing something that is too random and unequal to be nailed down when dealing with total strangers. It's normal. Thinking back, the only stranger that approached me in class (years ago) was only because i was wearing a Metallica t-shirt and he was into the band.

 

What social skills are necessary in order to be approached by desirable strangers? They are strangers because they have zero clue about you. The only way strangers would approach you, is if you have something to offer. It isn't about social skills here. It's about non-verbal signals other than appearing friendly & open (you would know about these anyway). e.g. if a prostitute wants to be approached by desirable strangers, she will dress for sex & walk sexy. You get the idea. When it comes to strangers, 1st impressions count for a lot. And a whole lotta luck.

 

In a training/class environment: i don't think anything will work other than, if everyone knew you were the best in class. The environment doesn't lend itself for you to stick out without looking odd. So you better be sitting in close proximity to those people that you think are likely to be approached. Within easy reach, or you'll be too late and get left behind. It's random.

 

In fact i can't remember when i was approached by a 'desirable' stranger, other than a girl asking for directions or some foul smelling bum asking for money and that was a long time ago. lol. I wouldn't call the hobo desirable either.

 

I'm sorry i can't really answer the question fully (at least i tried), there are too many situations and environments to account for. When it comes to strangers, most often it's just random. I guess you've been unlucky with the training/class situation.

[on_point]

Lights you're obviously an intelligent person, you write and articulate well.

 

You also are seeking out on ways to improve your social skills, which says a lot about your character.

 

So with that being said, I faith that if you keep pursuing what you want, you'll find it. I hope you stay encouraged in your pursuit.

 

Anyway, I say you're letting yourself be a victim, because what I got from your post about "it doesn't stop" was an extreme amount of frustration and despair. And to me, feeling like that because of what other people are doing (not approaching), is letting them be the ones who decide what you feel like in that moment. I don't agree with that kind of thing.

 

I can only tell you what complete and better means for me. But basically, a good definition in my opinion is becoming a renaissance man or woman. Wikipedia puts it as "sought to develop skills in all areas of knowledge, in physical development, in social accomplishments and in the arts."

 

I'm confused about your attitude regarding the whole issue. You feel like, "Why should I break the ice if they're not willing to?" Correct?

 

Well you should because what you're ultimately wanting from being approached is to develop positive and beneficial relationships correct?

 

That should be enough reason for you to do the approaching, because the whole "They won't do it so I won't do it" is a lose - lose interaction. Nobody wins. And to me, a mature, attractive, successful individual doesn't settle for lose - lose interactions. They make the best out of the situations their placed in and the opportunities that come alone.

 

I know this all might seem off topic, its just I believe that you can gain the social skills if you just focused more on yourself and individual beliefs

Edited October 21, 2009 by on_point

[Odyssey]

On Point, i sensed the same thing from his posts too. But it's obvious Light doesn't want to talk about it. Him being pro-active and doing the approaching isn't the issue he wants to discuss in his thread. Nothing wrong with that.

[Lights]

Thanks for your responses all. It looks like I've just written something about the length of any preferred religious scripture...

 

I'm just trying to get a vague benchmark, since i know nothing about you...

I see. I should have thought of that. Sorry if my initial response to that seemed snippy; looking back on it I might have been.

 

Then i can only guess that, like a lot of people you're chasing something that is too random and unequal to be nailed down when dealing with total strangers. It's normal. Thinking back, the only stranger that approached me in class (years ago) was only because i was wearing a Metallica t-shirt and he was into the band.

Random, perhaps. It's the "unequal" part that gets to me. I view it as a matter of "how dare these 'people' judge me on abilities or actions that they themselves do not have or apply?". It's infuriating to deal a culture which views me as not good enough to exert effort for and assume social risk for even as they demand that I do exactly that if I seek any chance with any of them.

 

As for whether it's normal, I have contention with that as well. I can't believe such a disparity in proactivity, and in how people judge others on proactivity, could possibly be normal. Now I can understand that in some types of situations, the specific need for active initial introductions can be sidestepped (e.g., in some work situations, everyone who one 'needs' to know one will either have already run into or one will be introduced around to them by others in the department), so in those situations (maybe that class you mentioned was one of them?) the lack of such initial proactivity may be rendered irrelevant or excused away. But what of situations where that does not apply? In the classes I had been taking, it was very telling that I was the only one reaching out to anyone, even in situations where group projects were imminent. I haven't a clue why people would act that way, as clearly it would be self-sabotaging to themselves! But even if a few of my own approaches go reasonably well, the overall behavior pattern still yields the same message: Lights isn't worth even the most basic of social proactivity and risk, yet when he does and assumes the same towards other people, it is to be taken for granted except where a tiny few choose to play nice. And I will never accept that as normal!

 

When it comes to strangers, 1st impressions count for a lot. And a whole lotta luck.

How would I best find out what those impressions are?

 

So you better be sitting in close proximity to those people that you think are likely to be approached. Within easy reach, or you'll be too late and get left behind. It's random.

How would I identify those people? Or better yet, be those people?

 

In fact i can't remember when i was approached by a 'desirable' stranger, other than a girl asking for directions or some foul smelling bum asking for money and that was a long time ago. lol. I wouldn't call the hobo desirable either.

I'm sorry to hear that. I don't really know what to say here.

 

I'm sorry i can't really answer the question fully (at least i tried), there are too many situations and environments to account for. When it comes to strangers, most often it's just random. I guess you've been unlucky with the training/class situation.

Thanks, Odyssey.

 

Lights you're obviously an intelligent person, you write and articulate well.

 

You also are seeking out on ways to improve your social skills, which says a lot about your character.

 

So with that being said, I faith that if you keep pursuing what you want, you'll find it. I hope you stay encouraged in your pursuit.

Thanks, on_point.

 

Anyway, I say you're letting yourself be a victim, because what I got from your post about "it doesn't stop" was an extreme amount of frustration and despair. And to me, feeling like that because of what other people are doing (not approaching), is letting them be the ones who decide what you feel like in that moment. I don't agree with that kind of thing.

What's the alternative, though? I don't really understand how I'm supposed to enjoy complete inability to be recruited by local elites.

 

I can only tell you what complete and better means for me. But basically, a good definition in my opinion is becoming a renaissance man or woman. Wikipedia puts it as "sought to develop skills in all areas of knowledge, in physical development, in social accomplishments and in the arts."

If such a thing is still possible, I'd be very surprised. Back during the Renaissance, the areas of knowledge in question didn't have today's depth nor anywhere near today's rate of change. Not that I would in any way denigrate the concept of furthering one's abilities in any given set of areas, but I have my doubts about whether or not renaissance anything still exists in this world.

 

I'm confused about your attitude regarding the whole issue. You feel like, "Why should I break the ice if they're not willing to?" Correct?

Pretty close. More like "Is this a joke? These hypocritical trash dare to demand from me and judge me on courage, effort, skill, and risk-taking when they can offer none themselves?". I'd have no problems with the matter if said actions were also routinely offered in my direction with equal frequency, and all who dared to deal with me at all upheld every standard they dared to demand. It is the latter situation I am trying to create in my life.

 

Well you should because what you're ultimately wanting from being approached is to develop positive and beneficial relationships correct?

I don't, and didn't, want it if it comes on unequal and unjust terms. I choose now, as I chose then, isolation and loneliness over slavishly tolerating one-way dealings.

 

That should be enough reason for you to do the approaching, because the whole "They won't do it so I won't do it" is a lose - lose interaction. Nobody wins. And to me, a mature, attractive, successful individual doesn't settle for lose - lose interactions. They make the best out of the situations their placed in and the opportunities that come alone.

Are you sure? What are vendettas, wars, loss-leader pricing strategies, etc., but (presumably temporary) applications of lose-lose strategies? Are those not used by mature adults?

 

I know this all might seem off topic, its just I believe that you can gain the social skills if you just focused more on yourself and individual beliefs

Don't anyone worry about that. After the more recent fiascos in school this year, it's set me into spending more resources on this matter than I normally should. My focus here now is abnormally high. I don't want to relive this again!

 

On Point, i sensed the same thing from his posts too. But it's obvious Light doesn't want to talk about it. Him being pro-active and doing the approaching isn't the issue he wants to discuss in his thread. Nothing wrong with that.

 

It often happens that when I talk about people approaching me (or lack thereof), people often try to turn it into discussions about me approaching them and ignore the original purpose of the thread. I just tried to head that off quickly. I don't have a problem discussing my own approaches, but I'd rather do that in threads dedicated to such a topic. I didn't want to get distracted from the matter of how to get "Hi. I'm Jamaal..." or "Hi. I'm Lisa..." from high-powered people in most environments.

 

But from the discussion here so far, now I fear it may never happen...

Edited October 21, 2009 by Lights

[Awesome Username]

You have some symptoms of Asperger's syndrome. If you do, it's just something you'll have work around. A lot of people have worked through this and lived a completely social existence, but it usually involves some one-on-one help.

[Odyssey]

Random, perhaps. It's the "unequal" part that gets to me. I view it as a matter of "how dare these 'people' judge me on abilities or actions that they themselves do not have or apply?". It's infuriating to deal a culture which views me as not good enough to exert effort for and assume social risk for even as they demand that I do exactly that if I seek any chance with any of them.

Exactly. Unfortunately the world we live in isn't completely equal. You're right, people should behave towards others, how they, themselves would like to be treated. Hypocrites. There are all sorts of people out there. I don't take it to heart.