Is a Trial Separation recoverable?

[JLoves]

I'm 4 months into ILYB and my W has just told me she wants to go back to counseling to work out a trial separation.

 

Again, I'm sent into the depths of depression.

 

I'm desperate and I have run out of options.. I'm posting here in a last ditch attempt to recover my marriage.

 

I spent some time looking at the forums here when it all happened but never looked in the 'separation and divorce' section as I thought that wasn't going to happen. I didn't want it to happen. Now I realise that might have been a very big mistake.

 

We have been to MC to work through the issues and up until now it all seemed to be going ok, although we had to stop going after 6-7 sessions due to financial reasons. In reality, nothing has changed her mind and we are back at square one. She now tells me that she went to MC only because she thought she should.

 

We have two children and I love her so. I don't want to lose her.

 

The weird thing is that everything seems to be a 'normal' marriage except that she doesn't love me. We go visiting her parents, we sleep in the same bed, we occasionally have sex, we enjoy our kids, we do family things. We are the perfect happy family. I am coming to the realisation that this is the problem. She doesn't know what she has to lose as she has all the good things but doesn't want to compromise on the 'differences'. I guess thats how 180 works. You have to show the other person what they will miss before it's too late.

 

I need to book a MC session to work on this 'trial seperation' idea, is it too late to do the 180? I know now that I've been trying to do some of it, but like many I've slipped back to the same routines.

 

I don't know how NC works when kids are involved. There has to be some contact.

 

Last time we had an argument she asked 'if I gave you half the house in money would you leave'. I realised that was 'will you go', but I said I am not leaving and that she has to go away and decide what she wants to do. Then I back tracked and said, lets go to counseling one more time.

 

I'm a stay at home dad and I have no job, or anywhere to go to stay. I have been doing this since I was made redundant and our second child was born. She (now) says she went back to work because she couldn't stand the financial stress of me being out of work. She said at the time she wanted to go back.

 

I want to try and keep this short so I'll try using bullet points. (failed at this)

 

I have a 'collecting' hobby which I enjoy but it takes up alot of room. We moved to a bigger house and I have the garage and a office to use, but she says that I annoy her when ever I talk about it. She is sick of the hobby. Now she says that even if I get rid of everything related it wouldn't make a difference. I spent alot of money on the hobby in the past and I'm trying to use the hobby to make some money to pay that back. But every time I say something positive about doing that I seem to be driving the knife in more. I'm also guilty of saying I'll do something and not doing it.

 

This hobby is part of my life now and I don't know how I can get rid of it and stay happy.

 

She has been unhappy for years. I never really understood how much. She gave up trying to get me to get rid of my hobby and started trying to 'fix' things herself. She never really involved me in this, I was in my own bubble. Now she says that she has tried fixing all the other things and I'm the only thing left to fix. We moved the household across the world get away from the UK which she ended up hating.

 

The ILYB came when a friend from the UK was visiting. I realise after reading the forum today that he was the EA. He was a workmate and they got on well and went drinking together after work before we left the UK. (at that time she was actively arranging it that I couldn't come, again I know this retrospectively). He recently seperated from his mature partner and was having problems with the new girlfriend (she is engaged). On the eve of my 41st birthday we were all drinking a bit too much, I had to go to the toilet, and I came back and they were kissing. I couldn't believe it, I was in shock.

She came to bed and explained that it wasn't his fault. She said she felt closer to him at that point than she has felt with me for years, and he had tried to stop her. She says she has never had an affair.

I had spent the previous day with the guy and I liked him.

 

I woke up a few hours later in a panic, and eventually asked her 'Do you still love me'.. (which I've asked many times in the past. I am very insecure).. Her reply was 'we have a problem'. It turns out that a few months before when her dad had serious health problems she decided that it was over and instead of saying 'yes' she would stop replying and use grunts or ignoring me. I never noticed. I took a grunt to mean yes, or that she was asleep.

 

Panic. Shock. The friend left to go touring and a big discussion the next day on what the hell was going on where some things came out.

I promised to change and make things better,perfect husband,etc,etc. We called up MC and had a session the next day. I tidied the house and asked the usual things. Tried to talk to her. I've not said ILY since the ILYB. (well, twice, when she said 'ILY' when half asleep. and yes, my heart jumped both times. I only replied 'ILY2'. Second time was last week). I tell her ILY in my head every night.

 

Over the next week after many sleepless nights, (or 3am wakeups), I came to realise that crying was no good and I had to get on with it. Got a few books out of the library and tried to make sense of it and fix it. (typical male reaction). Showed books to W, suggested she read a chapter or two. Bad move, completely mis-read it. Now won't read the books at all.

 

I tried hard to be happy and get on with life, we had a couple of bumps along the way and had another MC session to help with that. (I wanted to go away on holiday but with a single income family we have no money for that). Tidying the house started to slip, but I have joined a gym, started going running. (we had both completed a 8km fun run just before ILYB).

 

Everytime she says something is ok. I find out later it's not. 'I know your busy, its ok the house isn't perfectly tidy'. Then later.. 'You don't keep the house tidy. I hate coming home to a mess'.

 

I knew in my heart that she still had to make up her mind if she was going to stay or not. I wish I was doing the 180 from the start, but it's taken me 4 months to realise that.

 

We started talking after the MC sessions and everything was going well, we were communicating and seemed to be sorting stuff out. Now I find that she has been actively avoiding talking to me because it seems that when anything comes out my mouth relating to us or me it annoys her. Because I go over stuff again and again. (I try to but can't seem to shut up)

 

The last thing she has said is that even if I got rid of my hobby, didn't complain about it, got a job that she can't say she will stay.

 

I have asked her outright to forgive me for the mistakes I've made in the past, and she has never been able to say yes. I think this is a big part of the problem. I guess she will never be able to let it go when a lot of the stuff that caused her pain is staring her in the face.

 

Now I'm back at the start.. I've run out of things to do, I don't have anywhere to go as my parents went overseas for 6 months just after the ILYB. They know something is up but not the details. W said she didn't want to talk about it when asked.

 

I have no friends that I feel I can stay with here. I talk to my good friend in the UK and I wish I was back there. I have a good friend here who knows everything but she has family responsibilities.

 

I'm in my homeland with no-where to go. (cries)

 

If I walk out the door now, W will have to find someone to look after the children or take time off work which we cannot afford. The mortgage still needs paying, kids need feeding. I don't know if I can risk all that even if I could think of somewhere to go.

 

If I tell her to leave and decide what she wants then I believe thats it, she is gone forever. Her MO to a problem is to run as far away as possible. If I ask her to, I feel I'm giving her permission to end it.

 

I'm lost and I can't find the exit.

[hopesndreams]

'if I gave you half the house in money would you leave'. I realised that was 'will you go', but I said I am not leaving and that she has to go away and decide what she wants to do.

 

Get the money while she is being generous. Things are progressing faster downhill that you want to believe or are able to accept.

 

4 months is such a long time to be hurting and in despair. Have you not suffered enough? She won't wake up miraculously one day, throw her arms around you and say sorry for being such a fool. She doesn't believe for a second that her wanting out of the marriage is in any way wrong. Her resentments are building and she will be gone from your life, when she is ready. Could be tomorrow, could be next month. Beat her to the punch and go. That is your only option from what I have read of your story.

 

Take the money from the house, get an apartment and a job. Shared custody of the kids. You will survive life without her, even though you don't feel that you can. Your emotional turmoil is great and the stresses she is putting you under could send you over the edge. Don't let that happen, not just for you, but for your children. Give her what she wants. Perhaps down the road she will see what a fool she is and want you back into her life but you won't find this out if you don't accept her decision of not wanting to be with you anymore.

 

I am sorry you are going through this and I have been through similar. Don't let her be the one that kicks you out, for your own sanity...leave.

[JLoves]

I realised after reading your reply that I got the quote wrong.

 

She said 'if I *could* give you half the house in money would you leave'.

 

Selling the house would be the only option to make that happen. We don't have the actual money.

 

I don't believe it's ever going to be as simple as taking the money and running.

 

After seeing what happened to my friends sister's husband after she kicked him out when she was having the affair, I decided that wasn't going to happen to me.

 

She keeps saying that she doesn't want to hurt me. Every time she says 'ILYB' or 'Will you leave' or 'I want a trial separation' it's followed by 'I regret saying that' but to me I've realised it still doesn't change anything.

 

Today, tomorrow, next month.. Never is a good time to say it, and the issue is never going to go away unless both parties are willing to work on it.

 

I'm coming to the conclusion (surprise) that leaving is the only way I'm going to survive, but like everything, I need to sort out the practicalities of it and thats going to take time. I need to somehow keep her here while I sort them out to give me that time.

 

As much as I would love to take the advice and walk out the door right now I can't see a way to make it happen.

 

The problems I see are somewhere to stay, money, and what next.

 

Right now I have no where to go. Come October my parents return back, so I could stay there. Time is the issue there. Thats two months away. Money could help.

 

I can start selling off my hobby collection and putting the money away, and start looking for a job. That part is complicated by the fact I'm a computer programmer by trade, and I've got RSI/OOS. I'm managing it but I don't know if I can go fulltime again. I need to find another trade thats less keyboard intensive.

 

I've asked her what she 'wants' and she has said she wants to do the London Marathon, and visit Japan. She believes these are impossible things for financial reasons. (I updated my location and you can see why). I've told her I will sell stuff to make those dreams happen, but she doesnt believe me as I was never fully successful at doing it in the past.

I'm now thinking that I can do the same thing except for me.

 

What next after that... I guess I need to do the 180 thing and get on with my life, show her I can live without her.. and how much she will have to deal with because of her decision to say ILYB and not work on it.

 

Four months is a long time, but not compared to 12 years of being together and 11 years of being married. It takes time to recover a failing marrage.. I had to give it that time.

 

The four months has mostly been ok. After the initial ILYB things settled down into the familar pattern. Things were better than before as a lot came out into the open. but..... I was gradually subconciously coming to the conclusion that everything was in cruise mode.

 

I agree.. She has no remorse for the desire to end our marrage and doesn't care about the realities of it. She wants to run but the difference this time is that there are two innocents involved.

 

In my head, I'm ok (ish). I know I'm trying my damnest to try and save my marriage, and save myself and the kids.. My W had to convince me to take up going to the gym again, but I've been going for a week so far.. and having a goal to run 10 miles helps. I'm also trying to get out and away from the house. (hard without friends).

 

I read a horrible statistic recently... Marriages last on average 10.5 years. Yay.. I'm an average statistic.

 

I have to decide if I should say I've had enough, 'I'm leaving'. Or should I take the Trial Separation as a way to get my life together so I can tell her at the end of it, 'I'm leaving'.

 

I'm not sure if the Trial Separation she wants means me leaving or her leaving. I'm assuming the latter because of all the above reasons.

 

If I say I'm leaving in October, that leaves a lot of time for her to get resentful as she realises what she will have to deal with once that happens.

 

I've been at the keyboard for >4 hours.. and I need a break.

[JLoves]

I'm confused again.

 

We had a nice day out with my daughter, brought her some shoes, had lunch, visited her inlaws even though W is feeling sick. I went out to visit a friend while she sat on the inlaws sofa dozing.

 

Back home and at her request I just made her a hot chocolate while she sits there messing on facebook.

 

I'm a mug.

 

She has a weekend away next week with her sisters, and I'll be looking after the kids, so thats at least two weeks until we can get counseling session.

 

I'm going to book a single session as soon as possible on my own and in secret.

 

I think need to read up on 180 and do it properly.. I've seen Last Resort mentioned but I cant find any details.

 

Meanwhile... I'm still going to do the 180 part of selling some of my hobby. I need the money as a backup, and it will make me feel good. I won't be telling W about that stuff though.

 

Thoughts from today so I can get them out of my head....

 

If I walk, I suspect W will attack all my hobby collection with a sledgehammer. regardless of the 'sale' value.

 

One of the things W said came back to me repeatedly. W said in the middle blowup, 'You'll eventually get sick of waiting for me to decide what I'm going to do and leave anyway'. And what am I thinking of doing?

 

I wonder if because EA is out of the picture, if W is waiting for someone else to come along and whisk her away. Treading water with me until that happens.

 

I have written about my side, but thinking about it, I've not talked about her issues with me. Maybe tomorrow.

 

Got some good support from friends today. One offering a place to stay if I need it and the other offering to help pay for a plane ticket if I needed it.

Its nice to know people are out there to support you.

[JLoves]

It's 6am and I've been awake since 3.30am. I want to sleep.

 

I checked her twitter thing..

 

Last night was

 

"We almost don't know what to do with ourselves. Almost."

 

a couple of days earlier. nearer to the "I want a trial separation"

 

"This is how things fall apart. Gradually, 1 thread breaking at a time, and then when not enough remain, the whole thing collapses."

 

I just want to go and tell her.. 'We talk!, We comminicate, Our marriage is too precious to loose'..

 

I'm so angry and I can't do anything about it.

 

I try to leave her alone and it gets taken as I've given up. I wanted to go in the lounge and sit with her and talk, or just be there. but I didn't. I'm so worried I'm screwing up.

[lupa]

I have come to the conclusion that a lot of people stay stuck in the mindset that drama and bull**** is the secret to a happy life. Most people see the routine, nice, normal marriage as crushing their spirit. Those people are not strong enough to strike out on their own within the boundaries of a loving household, and will begin to blame the other person for their own inadequacies and unhappiness.

 

How do I know this?

 

I'm living it. On top of that, this is the same freaking story over and over and over again here. The guy settles down, gets comfortable, provides, loves, etc, and the wife says, "I love you but I'm not in love with you."

 

Go f*ck yourself with that garbage. Love is a two way street and it takes effort. A lot of these women think they should be chased and pursued for the rest of their lives, and that just isn't feasible. Isn't going to happen.

 

Sometimes I swear if they didn't have sex, we'd have a bounty on their heads.

 

I'm only half kidding.

 

I guess I'm just bitter today because mine has turned into a complete alien. Oh well.

 

My point, as I return from that digression, is that the 180 is the way for you to work on your own brain, as she is certainly closing her's down. You now have to look out for three(?) people...you and your two children (you did mention two children, right?).

 

Everything else is superfluous. You can lead a happy life as long as you know what you NEED and what you WANT. And you do not NEED her to be happy, you want it. It is that simple.

 

Trust me.

[JLoves]

 

My point, as I return from that digression, is that the 180 is the way for you to work on your own brain, as she is certainly closing her's down. You now have to look out for three(?) people...you and your two children (you did mention two children, right?).

 

Everything else is superfluous. You can lead a happy life as long as you know what you NEED and what you WANT. And you do not NEED her to be happy, you want it. It is that simple.

 

About the transgression. I agree with you completely. I have done wrong in my past, but I'm trying to make up for it.. Why can't she accept that and try as well.. I can't answer that..

 

Yeah, three people, 6yr g, 8yr b and me.

 

I think the 180 will do me good.. The parts of it I am doing feel good, and I decided yesterday to just get on with the stuff I want to do. Even the things she hates me doing. I just wont talk to her about it, at all.. (and thats hard).

 

Every time we have a major argument, and usually that ends up with her getting annoyed, she resorts to the 'next step' to kill it completely. 'ILYB', 'I still LYB' and 'I want a trial separation'. She just keeps pushing. (or retreating)

 

I read that for every 5 good things, it only takes 1 bad thing to destroy them. How true that is.

 

Your right. It's damn hard to work out what I need and what I want. It seems to change daily. (usually at 3.3am)

 

I need to be the best dad and look after my kids. Leaving them is the worst thing I feel I can do.

 

Trust me.

 

I've read most of your thread. I have a lot of respect for people who have been through hell and back and are still coping and I really appreciate the support I'm getting here.

[JLoves]

"We almost don't know what to do with ourselves. Almost."

 

I broke the cardinal rule. Never assume the worst.

 

Seems W was talking about the fact our son is away for the weekend for the first time and that the house is empty without his presence.

 

I wish I had the same effect when I go out.

[soserious1]

Let me see here an out of work computer programmer who collects things as a hobby.

 

Translation : a white face person who has most likely spent every waking hour for probably the last decade staring at a computer monitor while consuming vast quantities of unhealthy food whilst also spending every last dollar on star wars action figurines that have so taken every spare inch of space in the house that you had to actually move to larger quarters? Most all conversations most likely centered around your hobby too I'm willing to wager?

 

 

It sounds to me like your wife has finally woke up to the fact that she's never going to have anything or get to go anywhere because in addition to the kids, she has to carry you, her adult child of a husband.

 

Even now ,your primary fear of leaving the house is that she'll take a sledge hammer to the collection!

 

Do you understand how deeply addicted you must be? do you grasp just how negatively this must have impacted on the entire family?

 

If she's offering you cash money to leave she's done, the marriage is so over you could stick a fork in it. Take the cash, get a place and try to focus on setting up some sort of shared parenting plan for your kids.

[JLoves]

Firstly, as a general response, yes, guilty as charged.

 

I was going to write up a whole defense case for myself, but just decided that there's no point. (later... maybe I just have, but hey.)

 

So I'm going to list the positive things I'm trying to do to undo the bad stuff.

 

I now feel very guilty for using family funds to pay for my hobby and while I want to 'keep' it, I have to back myself up with some savings. I decided on Monday to start the process of dismantling it. I'm reluctant to put it all in a skip and take it to the tip, thats going to cost more money and what will I have left after the seeming inevitable happens? Better to start recovering the outlay than do nothing.

We also agreed to have a personal bank account each that 'pocket' money goes into. That would be for our own use. Coffee's, concert tickets,etc. Once it's spend, no more until next month.

 

In the past year I started running and getting fit, my W ran and went to the gym and she lost a lot of weight, (as she is the overweight one), we both completed a 8.4km fun-run together. One of the happiest days of my life. Great I thought. We are doing well after all the pain of the past. Wrong, towards the end of training I injured my leg and stopped running. So I started talking about wanting to do the fun-run but being worried about doing more damage, (according to running books this is normal for big events). Ultimately the I did run it, but by that time she was sick of me talking/worrying about it. This is why she now won't talk to me about anything. "You are not impulsive enough, you are a control freak that must have everything planned".

 

From last weekend as an extra part of the 180, I've stopped saying anything about the hobby. My big mistake over the past 4 months has been thinking that talking about using the hobby when positive things are coming out of it was ok. It's not.. It's pushing the knife deeper and deeper.

We both agreed that I would keep my hobby limited to the garage and my office. I've kept to that agreement. Now I know that if anything comes into the garage it sends her into a spin. She starts thinking 'Here we go again', even if it's something I'm repairing for someone else. (this came out in the 'I want a trial separation talk').

 

I'm doing my best to get away from the sitting in front of a screen. Going out to see a movie by myself. Sitting watching a movie on tv while she sits on facebook/twitter on her laptop, maybe talking about our day. Doing the housework, although not to the impossible standard I set myself when I first got the ILYB.

 

There is no cash. Just like there is no cash for holidays or paying of the credit card. At least thats a problem that I can see a solution for. Pointless telling her that. Actions vs Words again.

 

Overall... I'm finally understanding the hardway. I can only hope it's not too late.

 

I may be deluded but I have to try and make it work for myself and my kids.

 

Like Gunny says, if it all goes down the toilet, then at least I'm ready for it.

 

I've dedicated myself to getting on with my life as if she is not in it. My W is just someone living in the house, when she is ready to be part of the relationship I will be there. I'm doing my best to be true to the 180 points.

 

In fact, thank you for making me re-iterate to myself what I'm trying to do. It's a list I can go back to to remind myself.

[JLoves]

I wasn't able to find Divorce Busting at the library, but I did get 'Love must be tough' by Dr James Dobson.

 

Having read the first chapter, looked at the 'mistakes the wounded make' then mentally ticking every single damn box, I'm looking forward to reading it.

 

Any book that says 'Do NOT read this with your SO' has to be a good start.

 

I'm going to read it, but I'm interested in anyone else's opinions of it.

[carhill]

Name one positive action, no matter how small, that you could perform today, to move in the direction of your personal recovery....

 

BTW, reading books is not an action, nor is posting on LS

 

 

IMO, your hobby itself isn't pivotal in your marital discord. It's how you prioritize things. Every seen Jay Leno's 'hobby'?

[JLoves]

Name one positive action, no matter how small, that you could perform today, to move in the direction of your personal recovery....

 

Ouch, way to call me out. If I name one, then I'm going to have to do it..

 

I'm about to walk out the door, run 3km and go to the gym for a workout.

 

That I had planned anyway, but it's damn hard to think of another one.

 

Put up something hobby related up for sale on an auction site was the other challenge for today. Small steps. Less procastinating.

 

BTW, reading books is not an action, nor is posting on LS

 

Damn..

 

IMO, your hobby itself isn't pivotal in your marital discord. It's how you prioritize things. Every seen Jay Leno's 'hobby'?

 

True. The hobby is intertwined into so much though. Hobby in the garage, talk hobby on the computer, talk to friends on the computer about hobby. talk about selling hobby to make money, talk about doing hobby repairs to make money.

 

Hence, stop talking about Hobby when W is around.

 

Hobby leaving the house is a positive thing in my opinion.

 

At least Jay Leno gets paid to talk about his damn hobby.

[carhill]

At least Jay Leno gets paid to talk about his damn hobby.

 

Not at home

[soserious1]

I wasn't able to find Divorce Busting at the library, but I did get 'Love must be tough' by Dr James Dobson.

 

Having read the first chapter, looked at the 'mistakes the wounded make' then mentally ticking every single damn box, I'm looking forward to reading it.

 

Any book that says 'Do NOT read this with your SO' has to be a good start.

 

I'm going to read it, but I'm interested in anyone else's opinions of it.

 

I'm going to play Devil's Advocate here for a minute.

 

Instead of reading books, I'd suggest your best course of action right now would be to start spending all your hours online in search of paid work along with getting that collection sorted, photographed and listed on ebay.

 

I'm sure your wife has her faults but all I've heard here is how she basically hasn't been able to have ANYTHING from you for essentially YEARS.

 

All extra time? you're on the computer or blabbing about your nerd collection and I'm willing to bet you'd get rather pissed off when she attempted to change the subject to something more mundane and boring,like your kids or the needs of the household or gasp.. her personal needs.

 

Money? not only are you not working despite having high level skill sets, you're taking money from the family coffers

to buy nerd toys. She gets to hear that in spite of her working, she can't plan a vacation...but there's a garage

and an office filled with expensive ****ada that's useless to her or the kids.

 

Your wife has more than likely for years been asking you for your time, your attention, for you to step up and help support the family you've helped to create and each time what she hears is "no" even with the running thing, you managed to turn those conversations into being all about you.

 

If you want even a faint hope of recovering your marriage, I'd say no more words, take the cotton out of your eyes and stuff it in your mouth. Your time on the computer should be confined solely to job search and auctioning off stuff.

 

Don't TELL her anything, SHOW her via ACTION.

[The Collector]

It doesn't sound as if she has any interest in saving the marriage. You caught her kissing another man in your house. She is just biding her time as to when to leave, probably when she has another guy lined up. Sell the house, and use half the money to get your own place.

 

The only shot you have at changing her mind is probably a financial upswing. Get a well-paid job and she might reconsider. Romantic ain't it.

[soserious1]

Name one positive action, no matter how small, that you could perform today, to move in the direction of your personal recovery....

 

BTW, reading books is not an action, nor is posting on LS

 

 

IMO, your hobby itself isn't pivotal in your marital discord. It's how you prioritize things. Every seen Jay Leno's 'hobby'?

 

 

 

Carhill, I love you dearly but I gotta disagree here, this guy isn't Jay Leno and his "collection" grew so large that he is family had to move in order to house it. He's not working, he collects and pursues his hobby, his wife works and gets told "No we can't afford a vacation" "no we can't afford this and can't afford that" from the sounds of things

life has revolved around the OP and his hobby for years.

[Chrome Barracuda]

She was kissing another man in his house???

 

I'd probably say file for divorce right now because she wont come back and she's commited to leaving. So stuff it down her damn throat!

[carhill]

Carhill, I love you dearly but I gotta disagree here, this guy isn't Jay Leno and his "collection" grew so large that he is family had to move in order to house it. He's not working, he collects and pursues his hobby, his wife works and gets told "No we can't afford a vacation" "no we can't afford this and can't afford that" from the sounds of things

life has revolved around the OP and his hobby for years.

I'll stand by my opinion. The hobby isn't pivotal. It's an interest. We all have them and have a right to have them. Even men. He's prioritizing things wrong. He can be intense and passionate about his hobby but still prioritize his family, including obligations thereto. He's not doing that. That's where the fault lies. Further, this speaks to compatibility. A man (or woman) can be as passionate about interests and hobbies as they choose but they have to find a partner for whom that passion is compatible. There are plenty of people out there who do this and have successful marriages. I can think of one race car driver who died recently who was passionate about many things and still had one of the most successful and long-lived marriages in Hollywood. I buy his popcorn and salad dressing. Think about that. It's priorities.

[JLoves]

Ok, this ones a biggie and needs a separate reply.

 

I've started selling my collection and intend to continue doing it. No point having stuff sitting in boxes that I've not looked at. So it's going, step by step, box by box.

 

I know I'm going to get shot for saying it, but I've decided that I'm going to do everything in moderation, so I'm keeping the hobby part, *BUT* drastically slimming it down to the size of a reasonable normal hobby. A bit like a woman sorts her wardrobe, if she's not worn it for 6/12 months, it goes in the bin.

 

Reading books is my way to stay sane and keep up with the 180.

 

No ebay here, but I'm using the local online auction. Unfortunately, less market, less value of the stuff.

 

I started browsing the online job market website(s).. Results for Part Time IT jobs?? Zero.

 

Time on the computer.. Guilty.. All the rest, not guilty. I do all that stuff (to the best of my knowledge), as part of being a house husband.

 

My high level skill set right at this moment is pretty useless considering I can't use the keyboard for extended periods which I would have to if I was employed full time as a programmer, or any other keyboard intensive job. I'm looking into different but similar areas that I can use my skill set in though.

 

I know you are going to say 'then how can you sit at a pc all day'. I've learnt to manage the problem, I still get sore when I over do it but I can take a break when necessary. It's hard to tell that to a prospective employer..

 

This is one of the biggest issues I need to deal with. If I tell the W that I will get a fulltime job and she can stop working, what happens when I find I can't cope with the job and have to quit?

 

Even if I get a fulltime job so she can be the housewife, it's highly unlikely that my salary would be the same or higher than hers. We'd still be in the same boat financially.

 

Also, it's me that can't plan a vacation that I would dearly love.

 

The issue with the vacation part was actually that I wasn't secure enough with myself to go alone, and I wanted her to come as well.. hindsight is a wonderful thing.. more pushing

 

I'm sure your wife has her faults but all I've heard here is how she basically hasn't been able to have ANYTHING from you for essentially YEARS.

 

She has had anything she really wanted. Concert tickets, Weekends away.

 

Your wife has more than likely for years been asking you for your time, your attention, for you to step up and help support the family you've helped to create and each time what she hears is "no" even with the running thing, you managed to turn those conversations into being all about you.

 

Ever since I've been the dad at home I've been told, 'Its ok that your at home'. I guess this is a case where I should be listening to my heart which is telling me that I should be out working, and not her words.

 

The running conversations are normal in a normal relationship as part of pre-race tension. In a rocky relationship it causes more damage. Again, something I've learnt after the fact.

 

If you want even a faint hope of recovering your marriage, I'd say no more words, take the cotton out of your eyes and stuff it in your mouth. Your time on the computer should be confined solely to job search and auctioning off stuff.

 

Don't TELL her anything, SHOW her via ACTION.

 

This is what I'm trying my damnest to do.

[JLoves]

It doesn't sound as if she has any interest in saving the marriage. You caught her kissing another man in your house. She is just biding her time as to when to leave, probably when she has another guy lined up. Sell the house, and use half the money to get your own place.

 

The only shot you have at changing her mind is probably a financial upswing. Get a well-paid job and she might reconsider. Romantic ain't it.

 

I think she is biding her time as well. I don't doubt that if she found an OM she would drop me like a rock, but having said that, I think the kissing was a symptom of the problem, not the problem itself. (or so I'm telling myself)

 

The only shot I believe I have is to 180, take care of myself and kids and then if it becomes necessary, let her free from the trap she feels she is living in.

 

Romantic is the word.

[JLoves]

Carhill, I love you dearly but I gotta disagree here, this guy isn't Jay Leno and his "collection" grew so large that he is family had to move in order to house it. He's not working, he collects and pursues his hobby, his wife works and gets told "No we can't afford a vacation" "no we can't afford this and can't afford that" from the sounds of things

 

Just to clarify. We moved house because W wanted to be close to family and 'back home' in our native country.

 

At the time I agreed to move back here if I could still be a house husband and take my collection with me.

 

I wanted the holiday not her. (see previous post)

 

She is the person who handles the finances since thats her line of work and expertise, not mine. She knows what we can afford and not afford.

I've *never* told her she can't have something she wanted.. (maybe that was a mistake there, being the doormat)

 

I'm not working because it was decided that I would stay at home to look after the kids. Even after it all blew up, she still adamantly said me going out to work wasn't the issue. Weather thats the real reply I don't know.

 

life has revolved around the OP and his hobby for years.

 

Guilty

[JLoves]

An update on my brain I guess..

 

Right now I'm really really worried that my W is going to come back from her out of town annual sisters weekend and drop the bomb regarding having a trial separation. Two of her sisters are separated although one guy was a psycho and the other had an affair. I don't know if she has talked to them about us or not, but they could sway her either way.

 

If the bomb comes down, I'm ready in my head to say 'Ok, I've got my head sorted, take the space if you need it'. I hope I won't have to make it up on the fly

 

On the positive side, she was stressing at the airport about her baggage weight and went in with my daughter to weigh them. My daughter came out and said 'mummy's suitcases are ok'. This was without saying goodbye to me or a kiss. I texted her a 'have a good weekend, xxx' later on and she rang to apologise for not coming out and saying goodbye. I told her it was ok.

 

I'm also trying to decide if I still should go to MC for a single session to talk about what I'm doing, and about working up a 'I love you but I'm ok to let you go' letter, script or something along those lines.

 

I've been working on the 180 stuff last week to some small success, I got a 'eh?, oh?' response to the fact I was going out to a movie without saying anything. I been working on the random kissing without any other motives as well. Wearing shirts rather than the tshirt uniform I've had for years. Not hanging at the doorway to say goodbye and give her a kiss when she left the house in the morning. No asking for hugs. I've started selling the smaller stuff online and preparing/tidying the larger stuff I want to sell. (all without talking about it)

 

It's probably too early to know if it's being noticed due to stress of work and packing and stuff. I guess if I make it through Sunday evening, I'll know over the next couple of weeks.

[carhill]

Continue proceeding on this path for another couple of months and update. Rome (or Wellington) wasn't built in a day.

 

Do you have any male friends you can share with? I've found from my travels that New Zealand males are surprisingly (to me) open and sharing and generous. If you don't, make an effort to build some friendships.

 

Continue on a path you believe to be healthy for you. Time will tell whether your wife believes in that path. One day at a time

[JLoves]

I've sorta got it clear in my head how 180 works from reading all the great posts from the members here, and reading the book 'tough love'.

 

Lately I've been thinking about what the MC has been telling us (me), and I realised that it's pretty much the same thing thats being said here.

 

Talking about getting out more and doing things by myself, joining a gym, (although in the guise of meeting people). Basically not relying on the SO as the sole provider of human contact.

 

Except for one thing, this was all done in couple's sessions. There was no way the MC could actually explain why this was important and what effect it has on the SO. (assuming she knew). Especially in front of the SO.

 

Having said that, maybe I wasn't listening. I know at the time I was thinking WTF? How can this make a damn bit of difference? It's her that needs talking to.

 

I personally needed a reason to do it, not just because someone said to do it.

 

Now I appreciate that it's ultimately about two things. Rebuilding respect or preparing for the worst outcome, and rebuilding self worth.

 

No one mentioned the things I was going through though.

 

Very frustrating.