Is a Trial Separation recoverable?

[JLoves]

Continue proceeding on this path for another couple of months and update. Rome (or Wellington) wasn't built in a day.

 

Do you have any male friends you can share with? I've found from my travels that New Zealand males are surprisingly (to me) open and sharing and generous. If you don't, make an effort to build some friendships.

 

Continue on a path you believe to be healthy for you. Time will tell whether your wife believes in that path. One day at a time

 

I really hope I get the opportunity to continue.

 

The main problem with New Zealanders in general is that they are generally very hard nuts to crack open, but once you do they definitely are very open and willing to do everything they can to help.

 

It can be very hard to get to meet people. I'm not the type to hang around in bars drinking alone and without the avenue of work friendships it's hard.

 

Last week I talked to a friend who I've met fairly recently but not gotten to know very well. I mentioned the problems I was having, only to find out he was separated from a marriage that lasted 4.5 years. Amazing to find we had very common ground. In fact, he offered me a place to stay if I needed it. (at the time I was seriously considering walking)

 

Following my own healthy path has been an important revelation to me and I believe its the turning point in my relationship, how ever it ends up.

 

One day at a time.. so true

[carhill]

IDK, since you like the computer, I can see you meeting guys online. My last trip to Wellington had a local doctor meeting me at the airport simply because we shared the same interest (traveling and flying), had met online on a forum like this, and he spent the better part of the week, interspersed with his work at the hospital, showing me around and hitting the local social spots. In that time, I met a number of other males and those interactions helped me form my opinion. On prior trips, I had just kept to myself and wasn't open to the opportunities.

 

Kiwi's are hard nuts, eh? Sometimes looking in the mirror helps with that. Am I the hard nut and not others? Think about it

 

Your positive experience with one friend and how your similar life circumstances were revealed underscores this, and the agenda I'm pushing here. Your actions are the pivot. You control your destiny; your path. You don't control other's paths, including that of your wife. Watch how others respond to changes you make in yourself, for yourself. It's going to be an interesting road

[JLoves]

I have a few other friends here who I have met through forums. The problem is that they share the same interest. The hobby!

 

It's not just me, other people I know have said the same thing about the kiwi hard nut syndrome.

 

I need to make the changes, true. I see now that I've been in a rut for too long. I worked out a while back that I can't make my W change her mind. Didn't stop me trying unfortunately.

 

She has to do it for herself and so do I.

 

Doing the Do is the hard part though

[JLoves]

Firstly, thanks to the posts of members of this forum I actually had a pretty good weekend.

 

Instead of moping around feeling depressed, I felt I was doing something, so with Positives firmly in hand, I made myself take the kids out to do something everyday.

 

I also spend some time tidying the house, not excessively or overboard, just tidy. Actually got mentioned yesterday in passing by W. Which is nice.

 

Sunday was a bit hard. Coming back from the visit to the museum in the car, I had a panic attack. Pain in the chest and all that. Nothing I can't handle but I recognised it for what it was.. I was worried about the impending arrival (and possible doom).

 

As usual, nothing happened. W came home and gave me a nice present from her travels and told me how the weekend went. Seems they had a good time, which was nice. I told her what we did. Then she logged into facebook/twitter and did that for a hour while I watched a movie. (RIP John Hughes)

[JLoves]

Positives for past few days....

 

Listed a large surplus item of hobby on auction site. Hoping to get some interest.

Sold a smaller item to a guy in the UK for 2-3 times what I would get for it here..

 

Ordered Divorce Busting on the net. 2-3 weeks delivery.. PP accepted so W won't find out I've brought it. Hope it gets here quicker

 

Negatives

 

Since W came back on Sunday, and I've continued with the 180, I've come to realise how much I've been instigating what I consider to be the staples of a loving relationship. Kisses, cuddles, hugs, hello/goodbyes, making small talk. (the only consistent thing is telling each other how our days went, what we did,etc but it never seems to go any further)

 

I'd attributed this to W being sick for the past week and/or busy at work, but theres no reasons this week. She just seems so cold.

 

She gets ready to leave for work in the morning, gives the kids a hug and a kiss each, then walks out. It's as if I'm not here, except I'm standing in the kitchen watching it happen.

 

She has asked a few times over the past week 'Are you OK', which I've always answered Fine,OK,etc. I guess something is working.

 

I guess I need to find that 5 love languages book. I thought we went through this in MC.

 

I guess the couple of kisses I've had I should be thankful for althought it's hard not to think that its of the 'Oh, forgot you were there, wasn't there something I had to do' kind of kiss.

[JLoves]

Last one for today.

 

I'm having problems with the romancing part as suggested by Gunny. I've tried a couple of times to give her a romantic kiss instead of a peck but it always seems a bit forced.

 

The first time she asked if I thought that it was sexy when she was rolling up her boxing hand wraps. (she has started going to boxing)

 

Second time I kissed her, and when I went to give her a second kiss she pulled back. Wrong timing, wrong moment, bad breath, I dunno. (This was after she gave me a present from her weekend away)

 

There just never seems a right time for intimacy. Too early?

 

On the physical side, I've not asked, so it's not been happening. So many times I've read 'the more you do it, the more you want it' in help guides.

 

I'm getting to feel that if I never ask, it's never going to happen.

 

Being frigid is damn hard for a male.

[JLoves]

Brain in overdrive... must write it down so I can get it out of my head..

 

W says 'Oh, an older friend at work has invited me and another co-worker over to her house for dinner.' .... 'Girls evening, oh, she's invited a guy by the name of John, she says he's special, one of the girls'. W thinks it's an excuse so older friend can invite another friend over for dinner as said friend is going away or something.

 

Now I'm sitting here thinking the worst. Why the hell has she mentioned this guy? I have no idea who he is.

 

He could be special as in gay special, in which case, no problems. A 'special' friend of the older friend. (she is single and a devoted aunt I'm told)

 

or she is telling me this because she thinks that if I find out she went out and a guy was there that I'd go all weird.. Well, guess it's too late for that.

 

All I want to do now is pin her down and make sure this John is a nothing... but asking that could blow everything out of proportion and set me back in my 180 sooo far.

 

ARGH!!!!!

 

........

 

Sigh... Ended up casually asking.. Seems it's nothing to worry about. She has no clue who this person is... Man, I'm too jumpy about this..

 

......

 

Whoops... W was browsing the server pc looking for something to watch and came across 'Taking the Duh Out of Divorce' which I got in case the kids need something on their level.. She Didn't say a thing, didn't ask what it was, showed nothing. 'You ok' I ask a little later. 'Yes, I'm ok'.

 

She was reading each dir as went down it. No way she could have missed it...

 

Waiting for the s*** to hit the fan... I guess it will eventually...

[hopesndreams]

If your gut instinct is telling you there is an OM, there is one. You must get it out in the open, don't be afraid of it, you have to face the real enemy in this M in order to try to save it. The whole time you are reading books and doing the 180, she is getting closer and closer to the OM. There isn't much time left, she seems very, very detached from you and it's only a matter of time and you do know this because of your increasing anxiety. This isn't just about your hobby and not being able to find work. She is looking elsewhere, and when her plans are in place, you will be gone.

 

Even if the hobby is gone, and you got a great full-time job, there is still the OM. Nothing you do to better yourself will affect how she is feeling about the M. What is going on now, is all about her. Her wants. She is not looking for you to become the perfect H and then everything will be OK. As long as there is someone else in the picture, you can't be what and who she wants, her sights are set elsewhere.

 

All I want to do now is pin her down and make sure this John is a nothing... but asking that could blow everything out of proportion and set me back in my 180 sooo far.

 

Investigate. Watch her like a hawk. How have her mannerisms changed? Go through her personal belongings, snoop, snoop, snoop, anywhere and everywhere. If you come up empty handed, just keep watching out for signs, don't ignore them. In order to save your M, if there is an OM, he must be out of the picture, otherwise you are fighting a losing battle and wasting time.

[JLoves]

I been thinking about this.. and since I realised there was a EA going on when all this started I have been watching carefully.

 

I've seen no signs of an OM so far. She's not been sneaky, or happy, no long IM's with people I don't know, no long phone calls, no mystery text's, no gone missing at lunchtime.

 

I think I'm over reacting to this at the moment, although I do believe that if a OM came along and swept her off her feet that it would all be over.

 

My W was depressed after both our children were born and was taking medication. She also got depressed during the height of my out of work/hobby obsession and started taking medication. Even last year she went to the doctor and was prescribed drugs for a while.

 

That medication worked but turned her in to an emotionless zombie until she stopped taking it.

 

I'm looking at her this morning and last night through different glasses and I'm wondering if she is in a bout of depression.

 

If she is, then I am doubting that the 180 is going to make much difference to her. It's making a difference to me, so I'm going to keep at it.

 

How do you tell someone who thinks you are a major part of the problem to go see a doctor?

[TrustInYourself]

Lol. Seriously?

 

Your problem is that you can't see your problem. You are blind. You would rather focus on what is wrong with her, than yourself.

 

Address you. What is your hobby and why is it not named. Is it truly that pathetic? Why would such a hobby require so much of your time that your happiness was dependent on it?

 

Men who do not have jobs or provide financially for their families, limit their attractiveness. Women divorce men without jobs on a consistent basis. On the other hand, you need to be exhibiting behaviors that show love in your wife's terms. Not yours. Your hobby and your obsession/addiction have killed your marriage.

 

Her depression comes from dealing with you. Stop forcing things.

[JLoves]

Nearly 1 month exactly.

 

I guess if I'm not posting as much as I was then things must be getting better. (although I spend a week or so trying to decide how to reply to the last comment)

 

I got the Divorce Busting and Divorce Remedies books and working my way through them. Some good stuff. I'd recommend them to anyone. DR is probably better if it is you on the ILYB receiving end right now and need help.

 

Things have been getting clearer in my head about all this. I know this is going to sound one sided. Remember, I realise I'm not 100% perfect and I'm making changes in my side.

 

The whole trial seperation thing is an escape mechanism for her. An interesting thing happened a few weeks back. In short, she made herself go to a friends kids birthday party where she didnt know many people and I knew all the mothers. I didn't force her to go, she went because she felt guilty. I just thought, 'oh, strange, I thought you were tired and would ask to take a rain check. Ok.'

 

Anyway, she got bored and after we left the party she saw the house next door was for sale. 'Would you live near your parents' was the loaded question. 'Why?'......

 

But afterwards I realised, 'Hold on.. None of this was my fault. I am not to blame for you being unhappy at this kids party. You wanted to come not me. If you had said you didn't want to go I would have been ok with that' 'It was YOUR decision to come not mine'.

 

Things clicked. Again, she is using the ILYB, Trial Seperation thing as a way of getting my attention and to stop me doing what is really annoying her at that moment. That particular time it backfired.. I realised I wasn't at fault that time.

 

So, regarding all that. I've stopped doing stuff I know annoys her, as much as I can predict it anyway. I'm not giving her any reasons to walk.

 

Yet again, thats another thing thats in the DB books.

 

I guess someone will say 'Doh, yeah, isn't that obvious?'.. Wish it was.. Taken 6 month to work it out.

 

It's quite weird though. The really listening part is hard work. After stopping doing a few things like ringing her at work and go to see her for lunch, I remember things like her saying 'other people's partners don't come and see them for lunch all the time'. Hindsight is always 20/20.

 

... Three weeks or so later ...

 

I've had some small positive feedback from my W. She has mentioned that she has noticed that I haven't been talking about my hobby and appreciated it. Interestingly this was just after the birthday incident when she opened up a bit.

 

W hasn't mentioned going to counciling or talking about trial separation again, although she did ask if I had booked the session to talk about TS. I said No, and she said she just wanted to know if she had to remember the date/time. She wasn't angry about the fact I didn't book it. (I said I would book it then decided after I seriously got into doing 180 that I would let it slide)

 

W initiated making love one night which was a first for a long time. (as part of 180 I stopped initiating)

 

W started 'remembering' to give me a kiss when she left for work,etc. If she didn't I just kept 'happily' doing what I was doing even though I did notice everytime. I'm not keeping score though. (honestly)

 

I've noticed W laughing more. It's a delight to hear her being happy. Of course, it's coming into Spring here.. Thats helping too.

 

Best of all, she recently said 'I love you', although again it was just before dozing off. I made myself not reply. Just felt happy hearing the words.

 

These signs have given me hope and although I really really really want to ask her how things 'are' I know it would not be a good thing and just cause a backslide.

 

Small steps... Small rewards...

 

Still trying to work out what happens with the next step after 180.

 

I guess it really never stops. You just get used to doing it.

[JLoves]

Lol. Seriously?

 

Your problem is that you can't see your problem. You are blind. You would rather focus on what is wrong with her, than yourself.

 

Actually no. I'm only posting about what I'm seeing. If it's MLC then that's a different kettle of fish to wanting a separation. I'm focusing primarily on myself, and wondering about her.

 

Address you. What is your hobby and why is it not named. Is it truly that pathetic? Why would such a hobby require so much of your time that your happiness was dependent on it?

 

One word. Google.. and it's ability to find stuff if you put in 'hobby' and 'separation'. If anyone wants to know what my hobby is I'm happy to tell them via PM.

 

The hobby itself is irrelevant really. Its the affect its having on my relationship that is.

 

Men who do not have jobs or provide financially for their families, limit their attractiveness. Women divorce men without jobs on a consistent basis. On the other hand, you need to be exhibiting behaviors that show love in your wife's terms. Not yours. Your hobby and your obsession/addiction have killed your marriage.

 

I'm not an unemployed lay about. My job is being a house husband. We agreed to that when I started doing it. (note the WE).

 

I agree about showing love on her terms. Unfortunately that simple sentence is a complete chapter in a book. Without context,etc it's hard to understand how important that is. (although I obviously know that now)

 

Maybe one day we'll get to the point where I can have love on my terms as well.

 

Her depression comes from dealing with you. Stop forcing things.

 

Yes.. Thats the nail your've hit.

[ryepatch]

hey jloves,

 

you might want to take a look at my threads to see what happens when your wife (who's working and you're not) suddenly walks out on you. in my case, my wife is mentally unstable, but still hanging on to her job. we don't have kids, but we agreed several years ago that she would go back to school and work while i work on my writing career (still not making much money). i also do the cooking/cleaning/sewing/shopping/laundry etc.

 

i've had to put up with a lot of the same criticism as you have, from unexpected quarters, and it'll only get worse if she decides to leave. don't let yourself get lulled into a false sense of security. my wife was affectionate up til the end, and was fairly calm for awhile until not long before she left. if she's smart, she'll know how to get around your snooping.

 

i haven't been able to find work of any kind, and it's because i didn't work for years (in addition to the recession).

 

mine closed down all our accounts suddenly and left me with nothing. no way in hell i would've thought she would do that.

 

people do crazy things when they leave people. you might be where i was in may. watch out.

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t198488/

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t198954/

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t199403/

[JLoves]

ryepatch:

 

Thanks for your reply. As often happens, you think you have it bad, then read someone else's story and find they have harder problems to cope with.

 

What she has done to you is pretty scary and inhuman. How many times have I read in posts here where people wonder where their SO went to and who replaced them with a alien monster.

 

A lot of what you have said does go through my mind. The terrible 'what if's' , desperate wanting to know if something thats mentioned seemingly in passing is actually a major issue and trying to decide if it's worth asking.

 

I truly hope it doesn't come down to what your dealing with.

 

Fingers crossed that the sun coming out will help W with her winter-blues.

 

Oh, and chin up.. Keep doing things for yourself. It does get better. I read a new poster and think, 'Yep, I was there a few months ago'.. Hard to listen when you don't want to think about the unthinkable.

 

I'm now finding myself doing the stuff suggested in counciling, even though at the time I thought 'how am I meant to do this?'. I guess it takes time and contemplation to realise why things need to happen.

[JLoves]

I thought I was doing pretty well, but I realise that I've been backsliding a little over the past week or so.

 

Instead of being all 180, I've been a little down about our financial situation (although who isn't), and worried about this running event that I'm doing this weekend. Not exactly showing a happy front for W.

 

I keep realising afterwards and kicking myself for doing it.

 

Its hard when all you want to do is talk about stuff but you know it will start triggers into the dark side.

 

Having said that, I guess I should put a positive note in for myself in that a few times I've stopped and thought 'Is this discussion/question going to improve or set back my relationship'. Often thats enough to decide to shut up. So many times I've wanted to ask 'how are we doing?'.

 

I guess this is the hard part of 180... Much like dieting. (The dieting part is relatively easy part, its the going back to normal eating thats the problem).

 

Just ranting I guess.. Gotta get it off my chest somehow

[ryepatch]

sounds like you're doing ok. how has she been treating you?

 

are you looking for a job?

[JLoves]

sounds like you're doing ok. how has she been treating you?

 

Things seem to be going ok, but I've thought that before. W is being pleasant, helping with things. Letting me go out if I want to. (and I do the same)

 

It's hard to tell the difference between things working out and treading water though.

 

I think I've been on top of it enough to notice when I'm doing something that annoys her and back off as quickly as I can. Not talking about my hobby has made a big difference.

 

It's a bit of a mind game here. Plenty of posts and books talk about partners arguing all the time. I have the opposite problem. We hardly ever argue about anything. Maybe 4-5 times a year max. It all just seems to sit and fester which is worse.

 

are you looking for a job?

 

I've not actively been looking for a full time job. A few other things need to come together before that can really happen, but I've mentioned it to W a few times. Child care is the main problem.

 

I've been doing repair work to create cash income and I worked out how to convert the income from my internet business into local currency. All my personal debts are paid off so any income I'm making I'm putting into the CC debt. It's not much but it's better than nothing.

 

I'm unsure how much I should be keeping aside for a rainy day. (The REALLY rainy stormy day)

 

Back to the house work I guess..

[JLoves]

Another 2 1/2 months pass.

 

Monumental backslide today.. It may destroy my marriage.

 

....

 

We went to a concert together for the first time since ILYB, SO got down because she decided we didn't have anything in common to talk about while we had a drink in a bar. Not a good evening. Concert was ok.

 

She was invited out to a party and I asked if I was invited too.. She said not really. She didn't want me to come. A little discussion later and I said I was ok if we both do our own things but I would like us to make an effort to go out together some times.

 

On Friday I got a text seeing if I wanted to see her for lunch, something we hadn't done since I started doing the 180 (no dates). My mind goes into overdrive panic attack. 'Is she meeting in a public place to tell me it's over' or worse. A friend calmed me down and I went to lunch expecting the worse but putting on a brave face.

 

Turned out she just wanted a custard slice for lunch. Maybe it was an effort to 'go out together'. I don't know. We had a pleasant lunch. Jumping to conclusions was not.

 

I've been looking for job possibilities. My horoscope says something good will come up. Who knows.

 

I really hope I've not done irreparable damage to my marriage by questioning my SO's need to do some Escapism. It was a month ago she did it. Maybe things were better now. I think I've screwed any progress I've made.

 

I hate feeling so angry inside that my stomach turns into knots

[Chrome Barracuda]

You gotta keep chuggin along. there's gonna come a point in time where she does make a break for it. You need to be as detached as when it happens.

 

But all in all I couldnt live with the knife hanging over my head. I'd rather as her just file because it doesnt sound like she wants to be married anyways.

 

And I would just force her hand. If she stays great, if she goes oh well...

 

Life is too short to figure out walk away wives. Their feelings drive them. And feelings for them flucuate a million miles a day. one week she loves you, next month she doesnt.

 

God it's like diffusing a damn time bomb.

[JLoves]

Chrome: Thanks for the reply.. It's 3am and I have to sleep somehow.

 

I may have inadvertently forced her hand. I guess I'll find out in the morning.

 

At the moment I'm sleeping with a dead fish that snores.. I got up because I couldn't stand knowing she was there happily sleeping.

 

The hanging timebomb is killing me too..