Money vs Principles

[disgracian]

Now that's a good talking point.

Would "you" seek a job within an establishment that had certain policies that went against your own ethical, moral or religious values?

When does money become more important than Morals?

And where would you draw the line?

I would quickly say that in these harsh economic times ahead of us, we may not always have the luxury of choice. I have, in the past, done things to earn a living that I'm not proud of (e.g., night security) and may have to again before this life is over.

(Could start a new thread......if you prefer...... )

Done.

 

Cheers,

D.

[disgracian]

Also, mad props to me for starting my first ever thread here. It only took 970 posts but I got there.

 

Cheers,

D.

[sally4sara]

People's morals are measured by the fullness of their belly and the bellies of their children. I am not wanting so I'm extremely trustworthy.

 

Who was it that said all citizens are three meals away from starting a revolution?

[TaraMaiden]

...And I feel privileged to be a part of it.....

 

Once upon a time I would have said that if I was desperate for money, I would have maybe shelved some of my own values to put food on the table... survival of the fittest, we all gotta eat, that kinda thing....

 

But I've been poor.

Really poor.

I've had to rely on charity vouchers enabling me to buy food at a cut-price store, and a small handout to pay immediate bills.

I've stood in a shop, wondering whether to buy bread, or beans, because it was either one or the other....

 

But it never occurred to me to steal, to have both.

To me it was unthinkable.

And now, due to my own personal calling, I won't even eat certain foods I absolutely adore, because it goes against my own chosen principles.

 

I use the term 'chosen' advisedly.

These principles are not Imposed. they're not hard 'n' fast rules I am obligated to adhere to.

It's all a choice.....

 

"In matters of taste, swim with the current.

In matters of principle, stand like a rock."

 

But principles can change, depending on personal evaluation and decision.....

 

Safe to say that at some point or another, every company is going to do something we don't hold with too much.

 

The company I work for may well have policies I disagree with.

But they're not central to the company's core ethos, and neither do they affect my work and position at all.

I am personally untouched by these policies.

But if something they did directly impinged upon my ethical and moral principles - I'd leave.

Truly, I would.

 

Bless your heard, D.

 

Cheers.

[anne1707]

It's all about balance to me. I know that the sector I work in really does improve the lives of many who are most at need in society. That to me is a far greater reward than purely financial benefits.

[Eve]

I took a former employer to Court and won regarding a matter connected to my faith. Its either worth fighting for or the same thing, I say.

 

Take care,

Eve xx

[Woggle]

I am glad that right now I make good money doing something that I like and am not morally opposed to. That being said it is a dog eat dog world and I will do whatever it takes to survive and live a good life. I will never go back to being broke like I used to be even if it meant doing crime. I hope it never comes to that but it doesn't pay to be principled in an unprincipled world.

[Moose]

I could live with or without the luxuries I currently have, in fact at times it's quite boring, and other times a hassle to maintain.

 

I'd say I'm content in pretty much any situation. The "hard" economic times ahead doesn't really phase me all that much, I planned well, (financially) so we'll be ok regardless if I have a job or not, or for some reason wind up in a wheel chair....

 

I'll never step over the moral bounds I hold, no matter what loss or gain, but....that's just me.

[Trialbyfire]

While my code differs from others, it's the one I live by. I've rejected projects I didn't agree with, even lost a couple of clients over it but that's okay. I've pissed off people in both my personal and professional life, due to personal ethics.

 

*shrugs*

 

But...life goes on, as it should.

[disgracian]

Have many people here, when faced with compromising some moral stance that they never thought they would break, weighed it up against the prospect of not being able to feed or provide medical care for their families, and really wondered which is the lesser of evils?

 

It's very easy to talk the talk and claim "I'll never do anything I'm morally against" but good intentions often go straight out the window when the consequences are dire. In my experience, those that talk the loudest are often the first to abandon their principles.

 

Cheers,

D.

[MN randomguy]

A little over a year ago my sister was lower management for a discount store based in our fine state (yep, the holier than thou one, not the evil one:rolleyes:). They wanted her to un-justly fire someone because they had a target for payroll expenditures. She said no and they told her it was either them or her. She'd just signed a lease on a new apartment. So... she quit.

 

Now, the new job pays better, is better for her, she's friends with the new boss, and she loves it.

 

Yeah to my big sis!

[Trialbyfire]

Have many people here, when faced with compromising some moral stance that they never thought they would break, weighed it up against the prospect of not being able to feed or provide medical care for their families, and really wondered which is the lesser of evils?

 

It's very easy to talk the talk and claim "I'll never do anything I'm morally against" but good intentions often go straight out the window when the consequences are dire. In my experience, those that talk the loudest are often the first to abandon their principles.

 

Cheers,

D.

Perhaps your opening post should have read that you only want people who've made the above decision to respond, since the rest of the responses are meaningless, due to the lack of experience with starvation v. ethical dilemma.

[TaraMaiden]

I think it's all relative TBF.... I lived in an affluent society, in the West, when I was faced with homelessness, poverty and deprivation.

 

By Western standards.

 

I'm sure by third world standards, I would still have been considered a lot better off than some, but if you pitched my situation with regard to where I was at the time - I have known and seen the very depths to which a person can go.

 

And I think it's more common than you think it is.

If you look at how many homeless and socially deprived people we have living on the streets....

Well, you get the picture.

I've been there.

[RA1]

It's very easy to talk the talk and claim "I'll never do anything I'm morally against" but good intentions often go straight out the window when the consequences are dire. In my experience, those that talk the loudest are often the first to abandon their principles.

The above quote sums up my views. To expand, I think I'm highly principled but each moral decision is context-specific. The decision is trivial if what is in our interest coincides with what we think is good. But it sometimes happens we have to balance our self interest (or the interest of our families) against a harm we think we would do to the larger world. Then it becomes a moral issue and it involves weighing the good in one hand and the harm in the other. Such decisions are not easy and are complicated by our survival instinct that causes us to give greater weight to ourselves than to others.

 

There's a famous example which involves a run-away train. It's going to kill 5 railway workers on the line. If I throw the points, I can divert it on to another track where it will kill only one worker. Most (not all) people agree that the right decision would be to throw the points. But to add my own ingredient to the scenario, what if that one person who would be killed by your throwing the points was your husband/wife? Would throwing the points still be the right moral decision?

[disgracian]

Spot on, RA1.

 

I think it's pretty safe to say that any attempt to define morality in terms of unchanging absolutes is a one-way ticket to Failtown. Anyone disagreeing with that is welcome to explain to me why stealing food to feed a starving person is wrong. The consequences of our actions is probably the best measure we have, and similarly the best rule of thumb for difficult decisions is to go down the road of least harm.

 

We don't always know what will result from our actions. It comes down to judgement and it gets better with wisdom and experience. Mistakes are inevitable; but they are how we learn both individually and collectively. We learn from both our own mistakes and the mistakes of others (hopefully).

 

Cheers,

D.

[TaraMaiden]

Spot on, RA1.

 

I think it's pretty safe to say that any attempt to define morality in terms of unchanging absolutes is a one-way ticket to Failtown. Anyone disagreeing with that is welcome to explain to me why stealing food to feed a starving person is wrong. The consequences of our actions is probably the best measure we have, and similarly the best rule of thumb for difficult decisions is to go down the road of least harm.

All I know is that, even given and being presented with the opportunity and reason, I still would not - and did not - steal food to feed myself.

But I'm not about to stand in judgement of those who feel compelled to, out of desperation. Each person must chart their own course. And if it means stealing to survive, then so be it.

 

We don't always know what will result from our actions. It comes down to judgement and it gets better with wisdom and experience. Mistakes are inevitable; but they are how we learn both individually and collectively. We learn from both our own mistakes and the mistakes of others (hopefully).

 

Cheers,

D.

It's a sobering thought that, inevitably, whatever we do for the good, will somehow result in a negative, elsewhere.

It's a fact. It may be subtle, or it may be blatant, but in one way or another, someone, somewhere, is going to end up with a minus, regardless of how 'good' we are.....

So we can only do the best we can, with what we have, at the time.....