I'm in so much pain, and so

[tnttim]

The problem is we are so completely into NC, that she won't hear about or see anything that I do. Thanks though. Gotta do everything for myself at this point. She ain't coming back.

 

The point is, whether you get her back or not it's what you should be doing. In your frame of mind right now you still want her back, well than act like she sees you doing those things. If you can't go out and have fun because of her, do it to spite her, because you can. Don't go out looking for a replacement, go out and look for a friend. Find a chick you can have fun with, you never know what will blossum. Woman are very intuitive, they know your trying to pick them up, that's why being a friend first is easier. Then if you like her you can try to progress the relationship. You can do it, just try to make at least 1 female friend in the next week. Start ugly if you have to.

[TaraMaiden]

I use this forum sometimes just to vent, which this morning included talking about the hurt that I was feeling at the thought that I had to bear the painful burden of all our happy memories.

 

It only takes milliseconds for these questions to pop up...today I thought I'd share them.

Good, this is good. It's a recognition of how uncontrolled your thinking has been.... (look, I'm specifying 'you' because this is 'your' thread...I've said this to many people, over time, including GrayClouds...remember him?) so I'm not singling you out, period, I'm singling you out, because it's your discussion, ok?

 

These questions aren't really meant to be answered. The answer is actually that no one but her knows what she's thinking.

Quite. So I think this is the point where you therefore stop asking the questions.....If they're futile and unanswerable, then this is an exercise with no objective other than to keep you stuck down. Read on.....

 

So how would you, personally, change this thought pattern?

Like this:

 

*discussion with self*

Q: How can she not miss all these things too?

A: What are you doing?

I'm asking a question....

Look at the question.

It's loaded with negativity and anxiety.

Change the question.

Why am I doing this to myself?

It's a habit you've developed.

I need to break the habit.

It's a ludicrous one.

I'm doing it again, aren't I?

Good. Now - Change the question.....

How can I keep doing this to myself?

Don't you want to change tack?

yes, I want to stop this perpetual cycle...

So avoid the questions. Challenge them.

OK... It's self-sabotaging, isn't it?

You betcha!

So the minute a question like this comes up....

Stop - and laugh. Hard.

Laugh?

Yes, Laugh. Because you're doing it again, but this time, you've caught yourself.... see?

I'm sabotaging my self-sabotaging!

Precisely. You've caught yourself in the act.

So the moment I get thoughts like this -

...You say to yourself, "Oh stop! This is ridiculous! Quit dwelling in this place and bring your head above the water!"

And take a deep breath?

yes! And think of something else, now.....

 

 

I think we all wonder these things and ask ourselves these questions sometimes.

Asking the questions isn't the problem.

The thoughts and natural weavings of the unchecked mind, that follow, are the problem.

[soheartbroken]

Do people recover from heartbreak when things were mostly their fault?

 

Or if I deserved this to happen am I doomed to misery?

 

I guess it's a stupid question because there is no predetermined fate for us.

 

I guess I'm wondering if anyone out there has screwed up a relationship, acknowledged their faults, and been happy again. I know I'm not %100 to blame, but even objectively, I was the major contributor to the downfall of things. Please help.

[curiou]

Taramaiden, your posts are so great! I think it can become easy to fall in love with our suffering and negative thinking without recognizing it is yet another harmful relationship. Bravo on your face-forward advice.

 

 

Good, this is good. It's a recognition of how uncontrolled your thinking has been.... (look, I'm specifying 'you' because this is 'your' thread...I've said this to many people, over time, including GrayClouds...remember him?) so I'm not singling you out, period, I'm singling you out, because it's your discussion, ok?

 

 

Quite. So I think this is the point where you therefore stop asking the questions.....If they're futile and unanswerable, then this is an exercise with no objective other than to keep you stuck down. Read on.....

 

 

Like this:

 

*discussion with self*

Q: How can she not miss all these things too?

A: What are you doing?

I'm asking a question....

Look at the question.

It's loaded with negativity and anxiety.

Change the question.

Why am I doing this to myself?

It's a habit you've developed.

I need to break the habit.

It's a ludicrous one.

I'm doing it again, aren't I?

Good. Now - Change the question.....

How can I keep doing this to myself?

Don't you want to change tack?

yes, I want to stop this perpetual cycle...

So avoid the questions. Challenge them.

OK... It's self-sabotaging, isn't it?

You betcha!

So the minute a question like this comes up....

Stop - and laugh. Hard.

Laugh?

Yes, Laugh. Because you're doing it again, but this time, you've caught yourself.... see?

I'm sabotaging my self-sabotaging!

Precisely. You've caught yourself in the act.

So the moment I get thoughts like this -

...You say to yourself, "Oh stop! This is ridiculous! Quit dwelling in this place and bring your head above the water!"

And take a deep breath?

yes! And think of something else, now.....

 

 

 

Asking the questions isn't the problem.

The thoughts and natural weavings of the unchecked mind, that follow, are the problem.

[soheartbroken]

Taramaiden, your posts are so great! I think it can become easy to fall in love with our suffering and negative thinking without recognizing it is yet another harmful relationship. Bravo on your face-forward advice.

 

curio, is this your sly way of suggesting that I have fallen in love with my own suffering, and that the answer to my plea for help can be found in Taramaiden's post?

[curiou]

curio, is this your sly way of suggesting that I have fallen in love with my own suffering, and that the answer to my plea for help can be found in Taramaiden's post?

 

Ha ha, no. I guess I should be careful, as some of my previous replies instigated a volley of backlash. I'm only praising TaraMaiden's advice, and using "we" as a universal pronoun for many of us who have suffered from being left. Nothing more, nothing less. Good luck with your situation.

[soheartbroken]

Do people recover from heartbreak when things were mostly their fault?

 

Or if I deserved this to happen am I doomed to misery?

 

I guess it's a stupid question because there is no predetermined fate for us.

 

I guess I'm wondering if anyone out there has screwed up a relationship, acknowledged their faults, and been happy again. I know I'm not %100 to blame, but even objectively, I was the major contributor to the downfall of things. Please help.

 

I guess the answer to my own question is that yes, there must be some people out there who have screwed up a relationship but gone on to be happy again.

 

Maybe my real concern is that because I screwed up, she won't come crawling back, like so many other WAWs on here. Or maybe some just desserts theory...

[TaraMaiden]

Do people recover from heartbreak when things were mostly their fault?

Of course they do, if they don't carry all the guilt around their necks like some permamnet mill-stone....

 

Or if I deserved this to happen am I doomed to misery?

Why did you 'deserve this to happen'? And who is dooming you to misery, if you're doomed to misery, exactly?

Hmmmm??

 

I guess it's a stupid question because there is no predetermined fate for us.

Yup you got that right.

It was a stupid question. But I answered anyway.

Now think on the answers.....

 

I guess I'm wondering if anyone out there has screwed up a relationship, acknowledged their faults, and been happy again. I know I'm not %100 to blame, but even objectively, I was the major contributor to the downfall of things. Please help.

Let me know when you're ready to put down the mill-stone.

I've been trying to help all along, but it seems that because some of my input has been a bit too hard to accept, you'd rather keep lugging the guilt and angst around instead.

Is it really easier to keep carrying it than to put it down?

 

curio, is this your sly way of suggesting that I have fallen in love with my own suffering, and that the answer to my plea for help can be found in Taramaiden's post?

If you can point out anywhere where my advice has been incorrect, flawed or unworkable, let me know.

There's nothing inaccurate in what I've been telling you. It just entails a lot of hard work, and dedicating more love and respect for yourself than you seem currently willing or able to give yourself.....

 

I guess the answer to my own question is that yes, there must be some people out there who have screwed up a relationship but gone on to be happy again.

Only one? Try three.

And two failed suicide attempts.

But I'm still here!

 

Maybe my real concern is that because I screwed up, she won't come crawling back, like so many other WAWs on here. Or maybe some just desserts theory...

 

Of course she won't come crawling back.

She's not the type.

And what's more, she's not going to come back. It's been over 6 months, and she is not coming back, crawling, walking, flying running or swimming.

She's NOT COMING BACK.

You really need to come to terms with this, first, foremost, and now, before you can realise letting go is the only way you can move on from this....

 

And this 'Just desserts' theory?

Put it away, ok? because it's got nothing to do with how you're feeling at the moment.

Whereas you have.

 

Please explain to me who you think is doing all this to you.

Who's making you go through all this pain?

Who is obliging you to suffer in this way, day in day out?

 

Let me at 'em!

I'll show 'em!

I'll give 'em such a whupping, they'll get knocked into next week!

 

So, who is it?

 

Huh?

[soheartbroken]

Why did you 'deserve this to happen'? I did stuff to deserve being dumped. And who is dooming you to misery, if you're doomed to misery, exactly?

Hmmmm?? Me.

 

Let me know when you're ready to put down the mill-stone. I'm not ready.

I've been trying to help all along, but it seems that because some of my input has been a bit too hard to accept, you'd rather keep lugging the guilt and angst around instead. It's hard to implement I guess. And I still don't believe that simply by changing my thoughts can I change how I feel. There must be some amount of appropriate sadness to go through.

 

Is it really easier to keep carrying it than to put it down? Yes. To put it down would be to let go. Honestly, that would be more painful than carrying it.

 

If you can point out anywhere where my advice has been incorrect, flawed or unworkable, let me know. I guess I'm not exactly sure what to do with your advice. This comment was not an attack on your advice by the way, it really was just a question for curio. I think I will have to reread some of your advice, I'm getting that desperate!

 

There's nothing inaccurate in what I've been telling you. It just entails a lot of hard work, and dedicating more love and respect for yourself than you seem currently willing or able to give yourself.....true. I'm not ready to love myself again. I'm not done punishing myself.

Only one? Try three.

And two failed suicide attempts.

But I'm still here! Did you **** up the relationship though? My bet is that you were treated like crap by someone...but just my guess.

 

Of course she won't come crawling back. Ouch. Maybe she will, maybe she won't. I can't be counting on it though, that's for sure.

She's not the type. How do you know her type?

And what's more, she's not going to come back. It's been over 6 months, and she is not coming back, crawling, walking, flying running or swimming.

She's NOT COMING BACK. Actually, it's been 5 months almost to the day. Some of the spouses on this forum came back a year later. But whatever, I'm not trying to argue. Just clarifying. I know she's not coming back soon. I'm hanging onto long-term, like three years from now. Pretty sad, I know. No one can predict the future, but I just don't want to care if she comes back or not. I want to turn her down if she comes back...fat chance of that!

 

You really need to come to terms with this, first, foremost, and now, before you can realise letting go is the only way you can move on from this....

I'm not ready to let go, that much I'm sure of. I know this means nothing to you, but I can't emphasize how special she was.

 

And this 'Just desserts' theory?

Put it away, ok? because it's got nothing to do with how you're feeling at the moment. Something ****ed up with my thinking I guess.

Whereas you have.

 

Please explain to me who you think is doing all this to you. Me.

Who's making you go through all this pain? Me.

Who is obliging you to suffer in this way, day in day out? Me!

 

Let me at 'em!

I'll show 'em!

I'll give 'em such a whupping, they'll get knocked into next week!

 

So, who is it? We all know the answer now!

 

Huh?

 

Thanks for writing, Tara.

[TaraMaiden]

.

Why did you 'deserve this to happen'? I did stuff to deserve being dumped. And who is dooming you to misery, if you're doomed to misery, exactly?

Hmmmm?? Me.

Why do you think it is necessary to carry on punishing yourself like this? it's madness! But it answers your question to curio. That you are prolonging and wilfully remaining, voluntarily in your own suffering.

You're creating it, so actually, you have no right to ask anyone to help you through it, because all counsel and advice is falling on deaf ears.

Throughout this post, you admit that the perpetrator and perpetuator of your own suffering is you, yet you keep pleading for help.

How the hell exactly do you either want us, or expect us to help you, if you're not willing to help yourself?

 

Let me know when you're ready to put down the mill-stone. I'm not ready.

I didn't ask whether you were ready or not, I asked you to let me know when you are.

Misery is self-inflicted. So only you will know when you are absolutely fed up with doing this to you.

I don't know how you could be so cruel.

It's hard to implement I guess. And I still don't believe that simply by changing my thoughts can I change how I feel. There must be some amount of appropriate sadness to go through.

I never said it was easy. And you don't believe it, because you don't want to, and neither are you willing to try it. By your own admission, you'd rather carry on immersing yourself in pain and distress than help yourself out of it, so I'll just sit by the shoreline, watch you drown in 5 inches of water, and step in when you finally discover all you have to do is to stand up.....

 

Appropriate sadness, yes.

But you are way, way past that.

And you know it, because it's you doing this. Over and over.

Nobody else.

Is it really easier to keep carrying it than to put it down? Yes. To put it down would be to let go. Honestly, that would be more painful than carrying it.

Rubbish.

Utter rubbish. Take it from one who knows, you're talking rubbish.

because letting go doesn't mean betraying what you had.

carrying on like this though, does it a disservice.

Ever think that rather than honouring the memories by perpetuating this, you are sullying and tainting it with poison?

Wouldn't it be better to glorify it with good happy memories, instead of carrying it around in this self-destructive attitude?

You're not making it any better. You're making it worse. And whilst you persist in the belief that carrying it is less painful, then the intensity will deepen.

 

 

I guess I'm not exactly sure what to do with your advice..

Well, you could try following it....

 

This comment was not an attack on your advice by the way, it really was just a question for curio.[/b] I think I will have to reread some of your advice, I'm getting that desperate!

On reflection, I'll take that as a compliment. It might be a sign that you're beginning to realise what an idiot you're being....

 

true. I'm not ready to love myself again. I'm not done punishing myself.

Why?

Not "why aren't you ready to love yourself", but why are you being such an idiot? if you don't love yourself, why would you expect anyone else to? Are you intent on making yourself utterly unlovable? people are going to get p1$$ed off with you pretty soon, you know. Then asking for help will fall on deaf ears...

Fer chrissakes, just stand up!

Did you **** up the relationship though? My bet is that you were treated like crap by someone...but just my guess.

Actually, two were "my fault" the third was "his fault". But you know what? I'm past apportioning blame. In all cases, both people f**k*ed up. It might on the face of it appear that the blame lay one way or the other, but in hindsight, it was all just bloody stupid and not meant to be. I really don't care any more who did what to whom, why, how and whatever. It really doesn't matter any more. I never dwell on it - though at the time, it seemed pretty vital. I now see what a waste of time, effort and energy all my wallowing was.

I hope you'll feel the same way about all this crap too.

And soon.

Of course she won't come crawling back. Ouch. Maybe she will, maybe she won't. I can't be counting on it though, that's for sure.

So why persist in this stupidity then? you do realise, it's stupid, right?

She's not the type. How do you know her type?

Because if she were, she would have given you some indication by now, that she is, wouldn't she? As it is, if it ain't happened yet - then it ain't gonna happen at all. Is it?

Actually, it's been 5 months almost to the day. Some of the spouses on this forum came back a year later. But whatever, I'm not trying to argue. Just clarifying.

Show me where? Show me one post, one thread where a partner has come back. And weigh it up against all the posts, threads and lamentations of those who haven't.

I know she's not coming back soon. I'm hanging onto long-term, like three years from now. Pretty sad, I know. No one can predict the future, but I just don't want to care if she comes back or not. I want to turn her down if she comes back...fat chance of that!

And this is just bizarre...what the hell are you talking about...?! Can you not see how utterly pointless and senseless this is?

 

I'm not ready to let go, that much I'm sure of.[/b] I know this means nothing to you, but I can't emphasize how special she was.

Oh fer chrissakes! everyone is special! Are you implying you're not as special as she was? Was Mother Teresa any less special than Florence Nightingale? Is the Dalai Lama any more special than Bishop Desmond Tutu?

Nothing makes anyone any more - or any less -special than anyone else! Everyone has qualities, everyone has defects. She's a unique human being - just like everyone else. Don't elevate her to being any more special than anyone else. It's a ridiculous thing to do, and you're deluding yourself.....

The fact that you're not ready to let go, would probably bother her a lot more than you think, because she let go long ago. That's why she's not with you. She let you go.

Time you did her the same favour.

Time you did YOURSELF the same favour.

 

 

And this 'Just desserts' theory?

Put it away, ok? because it's got nothing to do with how you're feeling at the moment. Something ****ed up with my thinking I guess.

Yup. You said it.

Big time.

And that's ok, is it? It's working well for you?

 

Change your thinking.

It can be done, if you'd just give it a go...

 

Please explain to me who you think is doing all this to you. Me.

Who's making you go through all this pain? Me.

Who is obliging you to suffer in this way, day in day out? Me!

(. . .)

 

So, who is it? We all know the answer now!

Thanks for writing, Tara.

 

Don't be so quick to thank me.

I can be an almighty pain-in-the-ass, I know. I can even be a bully.

But it's only because I know.

And much as you may not believe it, I understand.

I've been there.

I know what you're going through.

 

But I can see what you're doing.

And as you say - now we all see it and know it.

 

You really do need to get a grip and change direction.

Otherwise you are condemning yourself to this kind of life for the foreseeable future.

Which risks life - happiness and potential fulfilment - passing you by.

Missed opportunities to be happy are not retrievable.

Really - now - decide if you are truly willing to sacrifice your happiness, contentment, peace of mind and serenity to a mere memory.

 

And more importantly, uselessly.

For how long?

Edited December 16, 2009 by TaraMaiden

[HeavenOrHell]

No-one cay say to anyone that their ex will never want to attempt to reconcile, how can anyone possibly know what the outcome will be for everyone.

One of my best mates left her partner for 3 years and they reconciled and are now married.

This does not mean I think it is ok to sit around pining and waiting (not that I think YOU are SHB), as we may never be able to reconcile, we all HAVE to pick ourselves up and rebuild our lives, we may meet even someone else in the process, we need to get to the point where it is a BONUS if we get the chance to reconcile, but NOT the be all and end all.

If we can never reconcile at least we have been rebuilding our lives up anyway.

[HeavenOrHell]

I think it is pretty crap she won't let you contact her tbh. Unless you did something she thinks was unforgivable. I don't know what happened.

What did you do that was so bad, was it really that bad or are you just beating yourself up?

I feel I screwed up cos of my neglect the last 2 years, I feel frustrated that I'm not allowed to put things right, knowing where I/he went wrong.

 

You are not even allowed to write to her?

 

It helped me to write to him, to say how I felt etc. I would hate it if he'd just vanished, I feel for you hun.

I wish you were able to write to her at least and say how you feel and to apologise.

 

 

Do people recover from heartbreak when things were mostly their fault?

 

Or if I deserved this to happen am I doomed to misery?

 

I guess it's a stupid question because there is no predetermined fate for us.

 

I guess I'm wondering if anyone out there has screwed up a relationship, acknowledged their faults, and been happy again. I know I'm not %100 to blame, but even objectively, I was the major contributor to the downfall of things. Please help.

[TaraMaiden]

I think it is pretty crap she won't let you contact her tbh. Unless you did something she thinks was unforgivable. I don't know what happened.

Nope. That's her choice. It's called No Contact. we're recommending it here over and over, and actually used properly, it's the wisest and best way of getting over a heartbreaking situation. Which is what this lost-love has done/is doing. Getting over it.

Of course, SHB could write and contact her - or attempt to - to write or say whatever she wants.

That's HER choice.

The lost-love's choice is to read and accept it, or not read it and reject it.

Choices, consequences.

We live through them all the time.

So nobody has actually physically, forcibly impeded SHB from contacting her (unless we're talking a court order, here). It's a moral request, I think.

And as such, one she doesn't have to comply with if she really doesn't want to. But what the response is, is not her choice, out of her hands, unpredictable and just another consequence.

 

What did you do that was so bad, was it really that bad or are you just beating yourself up?

Have you read her post?

She's doing this to herself.

She said so. Several times.

I feel I screwed up cos of my neglect the last 2 years, I feel frustrated that I'm not allowed to put things right, knowing where I/he went wrong.

You don't get it.

You might think you know where you went wrong, but that wouldn't change the outcome. The only way to change it, would be to be able to go back, and not go wrong in the first place.

"Putting things right" would be for your benefit, because your idea of putting it right is never the same as that of the other party.

 

You'd have to know from them what you could do to put it right, and I think I'm pretty on the nail when I say that they'd tell you -

"Nothing. You can't do anything, because there is nothing to put right, in any way that would either change what happened or turn the clock back."

 

You are not even allowed to write to her?

 

It helped me to write to him, to say how I felt etc. I would hate it if he'd just vanished, I feel for you hun.

I wish you were able to write to her at least and say how you feel and to apologise.

SHB could put it all on paper - but just not send the note.

She could write it all down, pour her heart out, and then ceremoniously burn the letter, watch it turn to ashes, and be determined that as the letter burns, so does her self-imposed obligation to carry this around the whole time, go up in smoke with it.

 

But she won't do that.

She's grown too accustomed to the pain, and is dependent upon it to validate who she is, because pain, distress and unhappiness means her heart is beating.

To give all these burdens up makes her think that somehow, her life would be worth less, and that the whole relationship would be disrespected....

Not so.

Not so.

But getting her to see this, is the challenge I'm rising to.

Goodness only knows if she'll ever let herself finally get it.

[soheartbroken]

I can even be a bully. Yup. Do you like this about yourself? Why are you so uncomfortable with other people's pain?

 

I read your posts, I even agreed with a lot of what you were saying, and you still persist in coming back to shame me some more for how I feel. Thanks. Did people shame you when you went through your breakups? Is that why you took them so badly?

 

You've got to know when to quit, because you just undid a lot of work that you accomplished with your first post.

 

But it's only because I know. You think you know. You know from hindsight bias, that bias that all people have when they get through heartbreak, and they look back and say "if only I had done this sooner, I wouldn't have suffered as much", when the truth is, you had to suffer to get through it.

[soheartbroken]

I don't really understand how out of all the posters on LS, I'm the one being attacked so vigorously here, Tara. There are people who have been struggling for much longer than I have all over LS...

 

I admit that I'm not ready to let go yet. Just leave it at that. I considered what you said, I even thanked you for writing. You think I'm doing this to myself. I get it, you made your point. I GET IT. I don't need to be berated publicly for a third and fourth time - I thought we were past this. I know myself, and this is THE LAST kind of thing that I respond to, unless it is done tactfully and with compassion (e.g. Gunny), and not from a self-admitted bully. I don't know why you feel compelled to shame me like this. It is the last thing that I need.

 

There is so much literature out there that says you can't "think" your way through grief. I'm not sure why you think that you have the magic pill to it all, especially having struggled with this three times yourself.

 

You've basically spoiled my entire thread at this point. I don't feel comfortable writing anymore because everyone's going to read all the **** you spewed at me and think I'm some crazy person torturing myself. As if I'm less deserving of sharing my feelings than other people.

 

For the hundredth time, I write here to get things off my chest, and to maybe hear back from others who give me hope. This is the point of LS (for me). I wouldn't come to this forum only to write about positive things.

 

I am already ridiculously hard on myself. It is often one of the first things that people notice about me. Do you not think that every day, I beat myself up for still feeling like crap about this? Then I finally tried to take the pressure off, and assure myself that there is nothing wrong with me, that these things just take time, that there are ups and downs...and along you come!

 

This has gotten way out of hand. What began as looking for hope has now turned into me being belittled in some ****ed up internet situation.

 

**** it.

Edited December 16, 2009 by soheartbroken

[TaraMaiden]

I can even be a bully. Yup. Do you like this about yourself? Why are you so uncomfortable with other people's pain?

I'm not uncomfortable with other people's pain. I'm uncomfortable when it's self-inflicted, and seems to have no purpose except to increase the pain. It's so unnecessary.

If I see a child putting his hand in a fire, I'm going to do what I can to prevent it, and explain why it's not a good idea.

If that child then keeps persisting to put their hand in the fire, I'm going to get a bit mad with them.

You're doing the same thing to yourself, and I have to ask you why you keep doing it, because I still don't get why you would do this to yourself.....

 

I read your posts, I even agreed with a lot of what you were saying, and you still persist in coming back to shame me some more for how I feel.

You think I'm trying to shame you?

You really think that?

you are so wrong.

And if you agree with much of what I'm saying, please - put it into action.

Put aside whatever you feel about me, right now.

That's not what matters.

What matters, is what you do with what you agree with....

 

Thanks. Did people shame you when you went through your breakups? Is that why you took them so badly?

Yes, and no.

I took them badly entirely on my own. But it took somebody doing to me - exactly what I'm doing to you - to make me finally see how senseless my behaviour was.

Only, they did it to me, face to face, in the hospital ward, where I lay recovering from my suicide attempt, strapped to my bed for my own safety.

best thing they ever did, although at the time, if I could have taken a scalpel to them, and killed them slowly, i would have done.

I owe that person my life.

 

You've got to know when to quit, because you just undid[/b] a lot of work that you accomplished with your first post.

Good Anger.

Great sign.

But as I said - forget me, or what you think of me. Forget how you feel about me. Look at what's so good about what I wrote, and go with it.

 

You think you know. You know from hindsight bias, that bias that all people have when they get through heartbreak, and they look back and say "if only I had done this sooner, I wouldn't have suffered as much", when the truth is, you had to suffer to get through it.

Yes of course. But I DID get through it.

You seem hell-bent on staying with it.

And that's the difference.

 

Or prove me wrong.

 

Are you determined to get out of this as soon as you can, or are you actually planning to remain in this deep pit of despair for the three years you stated?

Don't you see what I'm trying to tell you?

Suffering is a given.

Remaining voluntarily in that suffering, is madness.....

 

I don't really understand how out of all the posters on LS, I'm the one being attacked so vigorously here, Tara. There are people who have been struggling for much longer than I have all over LS...

Yes, but as I keep trying to tell you - you seem to be the only one I have come across who not only admits that the one and only person keeping you suffering, is you. And that what is more, you are determined to stay there.

I'm not attacking you.

I'm attacking the insane idea you have, of perpetuating your own despair and pain.

How can I not stop to try to get you out of it?

I can't just stand by and watch you commit slow emotional suicide, can I?

 

I admit that I'm not ready to let go yet. Just leave it at that.

Like I said, I'm here on the sidelines when you're ready to stand up and breathe again....

 

There is so much literature out there that says you can't "think" your way through grief. I'm not sure why you think that you have the magic pill to it all.

I never said you could.

You're missing my point.

But as I said - and as you've admitted - you're past the natural grief. You're in the unnatural, masochistic, self-inflicted pain and grief which is so unnecessary and harmful.

And I have never said there's a magic pill.

Quite the contrary.

I've told you it's hard work, and not easy.

Don't make me out to be the bad guy here. No matter what you think of me, or my methods, I've never said anything that's incorrect or inaccurate about you and your situation.

And you're getting angry because I'm poking you where it hurts.

well good.

I'm glad.

Because if it diverts you from what you've conditioned yourself to feel all this time, then I'm doing you a service.

Better you think badly of me, than of yourself.

 

 

You've basically spoiled my entire thread at this point. I don't feel comfortable writing anymore because everyone's going to read all the **** you spewed at me and think I'm some crazy person torturing myself. As if I'm less deserving of sharing my feelings than other people.

You are certainly not deserving of the harm you are doing yourself.

You are certainly not deserving of perpetuating the pain you're putting yourself through.

You must have heard the phrase - "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting a different result."

Well, you're not expecting a different result.

You're doing this to yourself fully knowing the pain it's causing you.

And that's simply one of the saddest and most tragic things you could do.

And I'm sure nobody's going to think of you as some crazy person torturing yourself....

But actually though, isn't that exactly what you are doing?

For no good reason?

 

Shoot, SBH, I'm trying to really help you here!

Hate me all you want, dearest.

I've had worse and let me tell you, I'm tenacious. because right now, I care about you, more than you care about yourself.

And all I want you to do is to love yourself as much as I do.

Edited December 16, 2009 by TaraMaiden

[McGrupp]

She's not the type. How do you know her type?

And what's more, she's not going to come back. It's been over 6 months, and she is not coming back, crawling, walking, flying running or swimming.

She's NOT COMING BACK. Actually, it's been 5 months almost to the day. Some of the spouses on this forum came back a year later. But whatever, I'm not trying to argue. Just clarifying. I know she's not coming back soon

theres is your problem right there. listen i ****ed up my relationship more then anyone. really all i did was use a cell phone to **** it up in about the span of 2 weeks. and then push her out after that even further (why dont you live me, your a bitch go **** yourself, im sorry i love you, when can i see you again, your a bitch reprise, etc.) so if im getting past the regrets so can you.

 

also ive admitted to myself she is gone and not coming back. the best i can hope for is to see her in some years and go out for a dinner and catch up. that is it. really i dont have even 1% of myself that thinks she is coming back. i think you need to get to that point.

 

also i think you need to start seeing that although she was beautiful and got you and all that, she had faults too. for chrissakes she wont even pick up the phone for some closure. if you wait around for 3 years and are planning to do that, then i would be worried for you.

 

my ex goes through my head still at 20 hours a day. i havent met anyone. i dont know if she has either, But i assume she did. i have to. i cant be that bad that she would rather sit around by herself then see me.

 

well if she met someone else, then i could be with someone else. and the fact that she doesnt even care shows it.

 

**** them man. they were great, but like im not going to stay stuck like this. im almost at 4 months and ****ed up so bad. i mean i just left myu cell phone at home 1 day in august im absolutely sure i would still have her.

 

so you know what to do. go back to school. man were young but time flies. we have to do what we want know. i pretty much stayed in a crappy job in a place of the country i dont love for her. now its over and im making plans to move halfway across the world.

 

**** it! i used to think this one girl was made for me.

 

obviously not

 

 

ive also been reading a lot of doc love's columns on askmen. com

 

although they are mostly about picking up girls, i can see now where my relationship was ****ed, and it was way b4 i saw it as over. so i think thats helped me a lot.

 

realize your mistakes. but forgive yourself. learn to laugh at how ridiculous they are. dont talk about them all day though. i used to look at this big calender at work and dissect the days and what i shouldve said and blah, blah, blah

 

ITS ****ING OVER DUDE. MOVE ON. TO WHAT? WELL THATS UP TO YOU

Edited December 16, 2009 by McGrupp

[TaraMaiden]

(SoHeartBroken is a woman. You know that, right?)

 

Just to let you know, because it sounds as though you're assuming, with the 'man' and the 'dude' that SBH is male.

 

Just saying....

[GrayClouds]

I don't really understand how out of all the posters on LS, I'm the one being attacked so vigorously here, Tara. There are people who have been struggling for much longer than I have all over LS...

 

So so, the velvet hammer of Tara is not a exclusive to you, I will show you the knots on my noggin if you like. Take it as a badge of courage that she is willing to challenge you. Understand there no shaming being done here, you are anonymous the discomfort you feel, is internalized. I understand, I did the same. I suggest continue to fight Tara, tell her why she is wrong, or why what she says in painful because deep down inside this is the conversation you avoiding having with yourself.

 

 

I admit that I'm not ready to let go yet. Just leave it at that. I considered what you said, I even thanked you for writing. You think I'm doing this to myself. I get it, you made your point. I GET IT. I don't need to be berated publicly for a third and fourth time - I thought we were past this. I know myself, and this is THE LAST kind of thing that I respond to, unless it is done tactfully and with compassion (e.g. Gunny), and not from a self-admitted bully. I don't know why you feel compelled to shame me like this. It is the last thing that I need.

 

Is tact and compassion helping you let go, at time the we become comfortable in the pain because it is what we know. And sometimes the bird needs to be pushed out of the nest. Is it because Mama bird does not love baby bird? Quite the contrary, baby bird is brought to a point of discomfort, anxiety as it falls through the air as a result it flaps it wings in anger and fear. In the process learns to fly.

 

There is so much literature out there that says you can't "think" your way through grief. I'm not sure why you think that you have the magic pill to it all, especially having struggled with this three times yourself.

 

You are correct you can not "thinK" your way through grief but you can "think" yourself to stay in with it. http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t205987/

 

You've basically spoiled my entire thread at this point. I don't feel comfortable writing anymore because everyone's going to read all the **** you spewed at me and think I'm some crazy person torturing myself. As if I'm less deserving of sharing my feelings than other people.

 

We are all crazy people torturing ourselves, in fact I continue to hold the King of Krazy Crowntown for that exact reason. There is nothing wrong with crazy, it acknowledges we was willing to put some much in to someone else that we would be willing to endure the pain of what your feeling if it does not work out. That is called crazy, that is called love.

 

For the hundredth time, I write here to get things off my chest, and to maybe hear back from others who give me hope. This is the point of LS (for me). I wouldn't come to this forum only to write about positive things.

 

Understand Tara post gives you hope, the hope of knowing that there is things you can do to help you move on to a better place.

 

I am already ridiculously hard on myself. It is often one of the first things that people notice about me. Do you not think that every day, I beat myself up for still feeling like crap about this? Then I finally tried to take the pressure off, and assure myself that there is nothing wrong with me, that these things just take time, that there are ups and downs...and along you come!

 

Then stop it, as Tara would say. Try being ridiculously kind to yourself. Understand this is coming from "The Prince" of unproductive personal self probing(I was just a king a few moments ago now I am a prince, oops moving backwards) .

 

You were not instinctively born to be hard on yourself, you learn it. Now it is time to learn how to be kind to yourself,ridiculously kind to yourself. This is done first moving away from anything that wants to hurt you, including yourself. It is done by forcing yourself to start "thinking" different. The better you learn this the less time your willing being in place or with people that hurt you. It is no magic pill, it is hard, and a struggle but a much more rewarding struggle then "managing" heartache.

 

Hope comes in many packages, often in the least likely of wrappings. Grandma use to have a saying when god is trying to help you first he will give you a tap on the shoulder, if you do not respond, he will give you a gentle push in the back, if that does not work, he will give you a kick in the A$$. And then she would start giggling because she said A$$.

 

We all need a kick now and then, even if we rather not have one. Good luck.

 

 

 

 

.

Edited December 16, 2009 by GrayClouds

[LisaUk]

.Why do you think it is necessary to carry on punishing yourself like this? it's madness! But it answers your question to curio. That you are prolonging and wilfully remaining, voluntarily in your own suffering.

You're creating it, so actually, you have no right to ask anyone to help you through it, because all counsel and advice is falling on deaf ears.

Throughout this post, you admit that the perpetrator and perpetuator of your own suffering is you, yet you keep pleading for help.

How the hell exactly do you either want us, or expect us to help you, if you're not willing to help yourself?

 

 

I didn't ask whether you were ready or not, I asked you to let me know when you are.

Misery is self-inflicted. So only you will know when you are absolutely fed up with doing this to you.

I don't know how you could be so cruel.

 

I never said it was easy. And you don't believe it, because you don't want to, and neither are you willing to try it. By your own admission, you'd rather carry on immersing yourself in pain and distress than help yourself out of it, so I'll just sit by the shoreline, watch you drown in 5 inches of water, and step in when you finally discover all you have to do is to stand up.....

 

Appropriate sadness, yes.

But you are way, way past that.

And you know it, because it's you doing this. Over and over.

Nobody else.

 

Rubbish.

Utter rubbish. Take it from one who knows, you're talking rubbish.

because letting go doesn't mean betraying what you had.

carrying on like this though, does it a disservice.

Ever think that rather than honouring the memories by perpetuating this, you are sullying and tainting it with poison?

Wouldn't it be better to glorify it with good happy memories, instead of carrying it around in this self-destructive attitude?

You're not making it any better. You're making it worse. And whilst you persist in the belief that carrying it is less painful, then the intensity will deepen.

 

 

 

Well, you could try following it....

 

 

On reflection, I'll take that as a compliment. It might be a sign that you're beginning to realise what an idiot you're being....

 

Why?

Not "why aren't you ready to love yourself", but why are you being such an idiot? if you don't love yourself, why would you expect anyone else to? Are you intent on making yourself utterly unlovable? people are going to get p1$$ed off with you pretty soon, you know. Then asking for help will fall on deaf ears...

Fer chrissakes, just stand up!

Actually, two were "my fault" the third was "his fault". But you know what? I'm past apportioning blame. In all cases, both people f**k*ed up. It might on the face of it appear that the blame lay one way or the other, but in hindsight, it was all just bloody stupid and not meant to be. I really don't care any more who did what to whom, why, how and whatever. It really doesn't matter any more. I never dwell on it - though at the time, it seemed pretty vital. I now see what a waste of time, effort and energy all my wallowing was.

I hope you'll feel the same way about all this crap too.

And soon.

So why persist in this stupidity then? you do realise, it's stupid, right?

Because if she were, she would have given you some indication by now, that she is, wouldn't she? As it is, if it ain't happened yet - then it ain't gonna happen at all. Is it?

 

Show me where? Show me one post, one thread where a partner has come back. And weigh it up against all the posts, threads and lamentations of those who haven't.

 

And this is just bizarre...what the hell are you talking about...?! Can you not see how utterly pointless and senseless this is?

 

 

Oh fer chrissakes! everyone is special! Are you implying you're not as special as she was? Was Mother Teresa any less special than Florence Nightingale? Is the Dalai Lama any more special than Bishop Desmond Tutu?

Nothing makes anyone any more - or any less -special than anyone else! Everyone has qualities, everyone has defects. She's a unique human being - just like everyone else. Don't elevate her to being any more special than anyone else. It's a ridiculous thing to do, and you're deluding yourself.....

The fact that you're not ready to let go, would probably bother her a lot more than you think, because she let go long ago. That's why she's not with you. She let you go.

Time you did her the same favour.

Time you did YOURSELF the same favour.

 

 

 

Yup. You said it.

Big time.

And that's ok, is it? It's working well for you?

 

Change your thinking.

It can be done, if you'd just give it a go...

 

 

 

Don't be so quick to thank me.

I can be an almighty pain-in-the-ass, I know. I can even be a bully.

But it's only because I know.

And much as you may not believe it, I understand.

I've been there.

I know what you're going through.

 

But I can see what you're doing.

And as you say - now we all see it and know it.

 

You really do need to get a grip and change direction.

Otherwise you are condemning yourself to this kind of life for the foreseeable future.

Which risks life - happiness and potential fulfilment - passing you by.

Missed opportunities to be happy are not retrievable.

Really - now - decide if you are truly willing to sacrifice your happiness, contentment, peace of mind and serenity to a mere memory.

 

And more importantly, uselessly.

For how long?

 

Tara, you may think you are somehow trying to help SHB here, but I have to say what you have written is emotionally abusive and I will be reporting it to the moderators. Calling someone stupid, an idiot, telling them they are choosing to be in pain is way out of line. You say someone did this to you in hospital? Well they should be struck off, this is abuse, the person doing it in hospital was using a technique along the lines of flooding which is now considered highly unethical. People come here for support in their darkest hour and to be honest it is a good thing SHB is as strong as she is, if you had posted this to me I don't think I would have been able to handle it in my fragile state. I am sure you don't realise how your posts are coming across and probaly mean them with the best intentions, but really this IS ABUSIVE. I will be reporting this post.

 

SHB, please do keep posting, we are all here for you, I am sure no one thinks you are choosing to keep yourself in pain, non of us are, we each have different ways of getting through this and at our own pace. PM me if you like, I am away tomorrow, but will be around on Friday. Grief takes as long as it takes, you are doing everything you can to help yourself including therapy and you will get through this at your own pace.

Hugs.

Edited December 17, 2009 by LisaUk

[TaraMaiden]

Tara, you may think you are somehow trying to help SHB here, but I have to say what you have written is emotionally abusive and I will be reporting it to the moderators. Calling someone stupid, an idiot, telling them they are choosing to be in pain is way out of line. You say someone did this to you in hospital? Well they should be struck off,

They weren't associated with the Hospital. They didn't work there, they were visiting.

this is abuse, the person doing it in hospital was using a technique along the lines of flooding which is now considered highly unethical.

It wasn't then. And what's more, it worked....

 

People come here for support in their darkest hour and to be honest it is a good thing SHB is as strong as she is, if you had posted this to me I may well actually have harmed myself, it probably would have been enough to push me over the edge! I am sure you don't realise how your posts are coming across and probaly mean them with the best intentions, but really this IS ABUSIVE. I will be reporting this post.

I'm sorry you feel that way.

And I recognise how strong SHB is, which is precisely why I believe she can take it.

Had I been speaking to you, I suspect - in the manner you have posted before - I would never use such terminology.

You've posted a couple of extremely distressing threads. As far as I remember, I never contributed, precisely for that reason.

But I'm glad you are here, and communicating with us.

 

SHB, please do keep posting, we are all here for you, I am sure no one thinks you are choosing to keep yourself in pain, non of us are,

Well actually, if you read her post, she seems to be agreeing that she is.

Hence my persistence.

 

Well, if I disappear off the face of LS, we'll know why.

But GrayClouds has conversed with SHB both here and elsewhere, and seems to agree with what I have proposed. So I hope Moderators will realise there is no malice, ridicule, hatred or animosity in my posts. Just a desire to stimulate someone into a different form of action to the one they have been taking, because the one they've been taking, isn't working for them.....

 

I say none of this out of any animosity, ever.

And as you point out and recognise (for which I thank you) I DO mean them with the best intentions.....

[LisaUk]

Tara, SHB has said that she no longer feels she can post on LS b/c of you. You are not a medical professional, you have no right to propose anything, it is merely your opinion, to which you are entitled but SHB has expressed that you stop. Please respect that.

 

Just for the record though, SHB is not "abnormal" in her grief and the process of grief she is following is working for her, I have been here with SHB from her very first post and she is getting stronger every day. Everyone is different and everyone deals with this their own way, SHB is in counselling, she is doing everything she possibly can to help herself and she has expressed that you are upsetting her and making her life more difficult than it already is, please respect her now.

[McGrupp]

eesh i find nothing what Tara said offensive. this is an open forum and if you post something expect differing opinions.

 

its not like his mother died or something atrocious where this is being handled lightly.

 

during my ordeal i had many posters come in and say stuff that made me uncomfortable or down, but i took it.

 

i really dont see the knock. SHb is a good person, and it sucks if you got upset by what TAra said, but i think this thread is turning into something else.

Edited December 17, 2009 by McGrupp

[LisaUk]

eesh i find nothing what Tara said offensive. this is an open forum and if you post something expect differing opinions.

 

its not like his mother died or something atrocious where this is being handled lightly.

 

during my ordeal i had many posters come in and say stuff that made me uncomfortable or down, but i took it.

 

i really dont see the knock. SHb is a good person, and it sucks if you got upset by what TAra said, but i think this thread is turning into something else.

 

Yes it's an open forum, yes people can express their opinions, but when did it become acceptable to call someone stupid and an idiot? That is abusive. Not only that, but Tara implied that a medical professional had treated her this way in a hospital, now she says it was a visitor, yes maybe it worked for her, but you will note that the medical professionals did not treat her this way, why? B/c it is not accepted medical practice, it is risky, and Tara does not know SHB personally, she does not know what effect her doing this will have on her. Besides all of that, the point here is that SHB has said hersefl that she feels vicimised and bullied by Taras post, that she feels she can no longer come on LS for support and she has asked her desist. Everyone has a right to their opinion, but when another asks for you to stop and you don't, that is when it crosses over into abuse.

[trippi1432]

Saw this somewhere and saw a lot of truth in it.

 

"The way you treat others is the way you treat yourself. True respect for another comes from self respect. True love for another comes from self love. True forgiveness for another comes from self forgiveness."

 

Hugs SHB.