Gamine Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 I'd like to add another point. A man marrying a woman does so, in part, to assure that she is his exclusively. A woman marrying a man, does so, in part, to assure that he is hers exclusively. And they jointly make this agreement. If the MP is about free love, then don't ask the mate/spouse to give up their freedoms while keeping one's own. Link to post Share on other sites
bentnotbroken Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 Could you explain to me please what a wife with the opinion above is doing at the funeral? The OW who loved him for who he was seems better suited to be there. Wife-legal spouse and heir unless other wise stated in a legal will. If ow is so much better suited, she would be the wife, not the side piece. JMO. Link to post Share on other sites
NoIDidn't Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 Affairs can be hidden from the betrayed family forever. Many have only been discovered after the death of the cheating spouse. Its far from an ideal time to find out though, IMO. But some stay hidden forever, as if by design. The vast majority of affairs just end without a d-day. So its not surprising to me that an affair could stay hidden forever. Link to post Share on other sites
jennie-jennie Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 There was a time when women could not support themselves, then marriage was necessary. To turn love into a contract today seems crazy to me. But then again, look at how often money has been mentioned in the posts above. Maybe marriage is still more about economical benefits than love. Link to post Share on other sites
bentnotbroken Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 The part about marriage only being romantic love is naive. It isn't a contract built on economics. It is a covenant/contract built with the God and his love and mercy. It isn't supposed to be milk and honey all the time, nor is it supposed to be the battle of the century either. But if your view is what you read in romance novels, movies and mushy cards, then you will always be looking for the next "soul mate". I have a feeling based on your posts, you are pretty young and have yet to live enough to view marriage from more than one perspective. Link to post Share on other sites
jennie-jennie Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 The part about marriage only being romantic love is naive. It isn't a contract built on economics. It is a covenant/contract built with the God and his love and mercy. It isn't supposed to be milk and honey all the time, nor is it supposed to be the battle of the century either. But if your view is what you read in romance novels, movies and mushy cards, then you will always be looking for the next "soul mate". I have a feeling based on your posts, you are pretty young and have yet to live enough to view marriage from more than one perspective. LOL 50 is not that young, hey? I have several kids, teenaged and adult. The kids' father and I had a relationship for 25 years, although not married, until I met MM. I used to believe in God, but I have come around and thought better of that. My ex was very religious, and I have seen how destructive that can be. Link to post Share on other sites
bentnotbroken Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 LOL 50 is not that young, hey? I have several kids, teenaged and adult. The kids' father and I had a relationship for 25 years, although not married, until I met MM. I used to believe in God, but I have come around and thought better of that. My ex was very religious, and I have seen how destructive that can be. My apologies. You words and age don't match. I do dislike religious people. It typically means they don't have a relationship with God, just a relationship with doctrine. This gives some insight into your view of funerals and respect for a grieving family. Link to post Share on other sites
Gamine Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 There was a time when women could not support themselves, then marriage was necessary. To turn love into a contract today seems crazy to me. But then again, look at how often money has been mentioned in the posts above. Maybe marriage is still more about economical benefits than love. I suppose it is difficult to understand marriage if you have never been married. You mention that you were involved with a man for 25 years with no marriage. Was this your choice? I'm not certain whether an AP gets 1/2 of a man. What would you do if he turned around, professed his undying love for you and asked you to marry him? Do you want him? Do you want all of him? Would you marry him? Link to post Share on other sites
fooled once Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 So if the Married Man you are having an affair with -- if he divorced his wife and asked you to marry him, would you? And I have to agree; I would have pegged you for early 20's. Link to post Share on other sites
jennie-jennie Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 I suppose it is difficult to understand marriage if you have never been married. You mention that you were involved with a man for 25 years with no marriage. Was this your choice? I'm not certain whether an AP gets 1/2 of a man. What would you do if he turned around, professed his undying love for you and asked you to marry him? Do you want him? Do you want all of him? Would you marry him? fooled once: "So if the Married Man you are having an affair with -- if he divorced his wife and asked you to marry him, would you? And I have to agree; I would have pegged you for early 20's." Well, life experience does not always lead us all to the same place. I have been through plenty in my life and this is where I am at. Naive I am not. My ex and I did not marry by choice since we were among the many of our generation who considered it oldfashioned and unnecessary, something our parents' generation had done by convenance, something we did not wish to do. As you can see by the length of our relationship, we did not need marriage to stay together for all those years. Not too long ago I would have said I would marry my MM at the spot if he asked me. But then I never considered marriage something that should last longer than the love between the two spouses justified it. Kids, money, obligations in my mind have nothing to do with staying married. Once you love someone else you should move on. Today my answer might very well be no. Because I know that to my MM marriage means obligation and that does not agree with my view. I know he in a way felt trapped when he agreed to marry his wife, although he could think of no reason why not to marry her. Why would I want to trap him again knowing how he feels about obligations and responsibility? I want a man to stay with me only of his free will, not because he once promised something and now feels committed to honor that promise. Link to post Share on other sites
Gamine Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 fooled once: "So if the Married Man you are having an affair with -- if he divorced his wife and asked you to marry him, would you? And I have to agree; I would have pegged you for early 20's." Well, life experience does not always lead us all to the same place. I have been through plenty in my life and this is where I am at. Naive I am not. My ex and I did not marry by choice since we were among the many of our generation who considered it oldfashioned and unnecessary, something our parents' generation had done by convenance, something we did not wish to do. As you can see by the length of our relationship, we did not need marriage to stay together for all those years. Not too long ago I would have said I would marry my MM at the spot if he asked me. But then I never considered marriage something that should last longer than the love between the two spouses justified it. Kids, money, obligations in my mind have nothing to do with staying married. Once you love someone else you should move on. Today my answer might very well be no. Because I know that to my MM marriage means obligation and that does not agree with my view. I know he in a way felt trapped when he agreed to marry his wife, although he could think of no reason why not to marry her. Why would I want to trap him again knowing how he feels about obligations and responsibility? I want a man to stay with me only of his free will, not because he once promised something and now feels committed to honor that promise. Did the man you were involved in a relationship with for 25 years feel an obligation towards you? Did you towards him? Link to post Share on other sites
jennie-jennie Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 Did the man you were involved in a relationship with for 25 years feel an obligation towards you? Did you towards him? No. Love only. Obligation towards the kids, yes, but that is no different now when we are not together. We still support each other as friends, just like we have always done, because we care about each other, no obligation. To me obligation and love do not mix. Link to post Share on other sites
Gamine Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 For me, love and honesty are inextricably intertwined. There must be honesty and in the light of both love and honesty deception cannot exist. Were you and your partner, JJ, monogamous? Link to post Share on other sites
jennie-jennie Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 For me, love and honesty are inextricably intertwined. There must be honesty and in the light of both love and honesty deception cannot exist. Were you and your partner, JJ, monogamous? I totally agree with you here. Honesty is extremely important to me. In my opinion the obligations of marriage are in the way for total honesty. Obligations foster dishonesty. Earlier tonight I talked to MM about honesty. He said that he used to always be truthful to his wife, but now he has transferred that honesty to me. Maybe it is as you say that "love and honesty are inextricably intertwined" and now that he has transferred the love part of his marriage to me, he has also transferred the honesty? In the very beginning of our relationship my ex and I had an open relationship, as the times were such that this was acceptable to many. We did transform it into a monogamous relationship, although my ex cheated on me several times the first years of the monogamous part of our relationship. He did however come to terms with his behaviour and stopped it. So I know what it is to be the BS. Link to post Share on other sites
Gamine Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 I totally agree with you here. Honesty is extremely important to me. In my opinion the obligations of marriage are in the way for total honesty. Obligations foster dishonesty. Earlier tonight I talked to MM about honesty. He said that he used to always be truthful to his wife, but now he has transferred that honesty to me. Maybe it is as you say that "love and honesty are inextricably intertwined" and now that he has transferred the love part of his marriage to me, he has also transferred the honesty? In the very beginning of our relationship my ex and I had an open relationship, as the times were such that this was acceptable to many. We did transform it into a monogamous relationship, although my ex cheated on me several times the first years of the monogamous part of our relationship. He did however come to terms with his behaviour and stopped it. So I know what it is to be the BS. Why do you think your SO stopped his behavior? Was it out of his commitment to you? Why were you monogamous? Was it out of a commitment to him? Link to post Share on other sites
jennie-jennie Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 Why do you think your SO stopped his behavior? Was it out of his commitment to you? Why were you monogamous? Was it out of a commitment to him? My nature is to be monogamous to a man, not out of commitment, but because I tend to desire only one man. I am very loyal by nature. I had not ended my relationship with my ex when I took up with MM. But when I came to the point that I was only thinking of MM while I was having sex with my now ex, I ended that relationship. Not out of commitment to MM, but because it felt wrong to have sex with one man while desiring another. I believe my ex came to consider his cheating as addictive behaviour which was not good for him. He wanted to explore our relationship and see if he could deepen it. Link to post Share on other sites
jennie-jennie Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 Come to think of it, my MM has transferred love, honesty and sex to me. What keeps him in his marriage is the sense of obligation and responsibility. I too have transferred love, honesty and sex from my ex to MM. Since I felt no obligation to stay with him once these things were gone, I moved on. Link to post Share on other sites
bentnotbroken Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 Come to think of it, my MM has transferred love, honesty and sex to me. What keeps him in his marriage is the sense of obligation and responsibility. I too have transferred love, honesty and sex from my ex to MM. Since I felt no obligation to stay with him once these things were gone, I moved on. Honesty, by lying. That's rich:laugh: His whole life is a lie.:lmao: Link to post Share on other sites
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