MM's & Karma

[Gamine]

and the masses are like sheep being led to the slaughter... to accept Karma or one's personal fate to dictate your position in life... is allowing yourself to be controlled. I acknowledge that most people do need some form of that thinking in their lives.

 

You will note as TM has put it so eloquently, karma is not FATE. How's this for a common day interpretation concerning the laws of natural life "What goes around comes around."

[jennie-jennie]

Not necessarily dude... you just need to be willing to make the changes in your life to get what you need. waffling and fence setting gets you nowhere. make a choice and go with it.

 

As an OW, you can not believe how refreshing it is to hear your words. And you left your W while not knowing whether your MW would leave her H or not. :bunny:

 

I have seen many MW leave their H for a MM, but the opposite is quite unusual. I hope some day my MM will find the strength to do what you have done: "make a choice and go with it".

[TaraMaiden]

so you are saying that I'm just a small piece of the greater cosmic scheme, but I don't realize it yet?

you just did.

[TaraMaiden]

Tara, I am not a Buddhist. I am a Christian and my life is in order with God and his will. And nothing he does is going to hurt me or send me down a slippery slope. Best wishes to you.

 

But I thought God gave you free will?

So if you have a God-given free will, but you're subject to God's will - then you have no will at all, do you?

It's either one or the other, can't have it both ways. Can he?

 

I am not Buddhist and I'm not going to discuss teachings. I already gave my beliefs as you did yours.

 

Your beliefs are yours and my beliefs are mine.

 

And if you can honestly sit there and say that people who have cancer deserve it, then you have more problems than I do.

 

GEL

Where did I say that? I think you'll find, I never said that.....If you read again, you will see that I quite clearly stated that this was, according to Buddhist teachings, possible, but by no means certain. This is why Buddhism doesn't entirely stand with the statement, "What goes around, comes around" because it's a probability, but not a certainty.

You see, you cannot destroy negative karmic consequences, but you can re-balance them by your thoughts, words, deeds and perceptive attitude, Now.

 

The Law of Karma is one of the Buddha's unconjecturables.

It's something that, if you sit and try to work it out and understand it thoroughly, is going to drive you nuts. So he taught us to not try to figure it out.

The only karma we can work on, right now, is ours, right now.

 

Karma basically means we don't get away with anything.

And it all counts.

If your thoughts, words and deeds are deliberately - volitionally - slanted either way (plus, minus, negative, positive, "good", "bad") .... then that's what you're setting yourself up for.

 

It really is, fundamentally, that simple.

 

we have the opportunity, at every second, to make sure we do the Right thing.

Choices, choices.

That's it really.

Why complicate things?

[bentnotbroken]

But I thought God gave you free will?

So if you have a God-given free will, but you're subject to God's will - then you have no will at all, do you?

It's either one or the other, can't have it both ways. Can he?

 

 

Tara, I do not believe in Buddhism. My choice(my free will) is to follow God and his will. No one twisted my arm, held a gun to my head or threatened to take away my cookies if I didn't believe. It a free will choice based on years of trying other things, studying and eventually finding my truth. I lay my life down for his service as he sent his Son to die for my sins.

 

Your choice is to follow whatever laws of Buddhism you prefer. I am good with that. If you are good with your choice, love it, live it. No explanation or conversion necessary.

[Lizzie60]

1) i would like to know weather MM's get karma effect or not and How?

 

I don't believe in karma.. that was invented by idiots so they would feel better... something would take care of their 'revenge'

 

 

2) i feel they really miss nothing as compared to OW.

 

I wouldn't be so sure.. some MM do fall in love with their OW.. but for many reasons (kids mostly) they sacrifice that love.

 

 

3) how to come out of the temptation to talk to him again

 

It's like an addiction.. you just go to do what you got to do.. NC... period.

 

 

4) on final closer day he told me - marriage is different and love is different what does this mean?

 

that means.. he pobably is in love with you..not his wife anymore.. but he will sacrifice this love for his family.. (kids)

 

5) he told me real love dosent need commitment

 

He's right..

 

 

6) why MM look out for EA/PA?

 

because they lack something in their life.. or they simply fall in love with another woman..

 

 

7) how is the life for them after OW says good bye for ever !!

 

They will most probably look for another woman..

[TaraMaiden]

Tara, I do not believe in Buddhism. My choice(my free will) is to follow God and his will. No one twisted my arm, held a gun to my head or threatened to take away my cookies if I didn't believe. It a free will choice based on years of trying other things, studying and eventually finding my truth. I lay my life down for his service as he sent his Son to die for my sins.

Whole new thread, whole new ballgame.

 

1) i would like to know weather MM's get karma effect or not and How?

 

I don't believe in karma.. that was invented by idiots so they would feel better... something would take care of their 'revenge'

In the original context of this thread, you're probably right.

In the context to which it has evolved - I'm afraid that's incorrect.

 

But huge kudos to you, Lizzie, for steering..... *round of applause* - !

[saniya]

I really appreciate all of the feedback/advice/reality checks . It's what I needed to hear. Thank you all.

[TaraMaiden]

Well, I for one hope the entertainment value of the thread has provided some distraction, if nothing else!

Thanks for coming back in!

[In_Repair]

If you REALLY think that is true in every case, you're living in a fantasy world.

 

No, of course I don't think that is true in every case, that is why I made reference to serial cheaters, or opportunistic cheaters. There are people out there who conduct themselves as the perfect spouse, but behind their spouse's back they jump on every chance to cheat that is presented to them. These people will cheat regardless of any marital issues.

 

My earlier point is that the hows and all of the dirty little details of an affair really don't mean squat compared to the "why" of the matter. I was simply surprised by Oyster's comment and wanted to explain why some people are willing to accept what she is not. She clings to the idea that her husband cared nothing for his OW. This is because she loves her husband and the worst case scenario for her would be that he gave his love to someone else, so she can more easily justify the physical affair by believing that he still loves her and only her. In her situation, and almost every other situation like this, the truth is more than likely somewhere in the middle and she will never know for sure.

 

Like I said... it all depends on what you are fed and what you are willing to eat. Your cheating spouse knows you, which means they also know how to manipulate you. It's juvenile and naive to believe that a person who has been living a lie up until the day of discovery is going to all of a sudden come clean and tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth regarding their infidelity.

[Gamine]

No, of course I don't think that is true in every case, that is why I made reference to serial cheaters, or opportunistic cheaters. There are people out there who conduct themselves as the perfect spouse, but behind their spouse's back they jump on every chance to cheat that is presented to them. These people will cheat regardless of any marital issues.

 

My earlier point is that the hows and all of the dirty little details of an affair really don't mean squat compared to the "why" of the matter. I was simply surprised by Oyster's comment and wanted to explain why some people are willing to accept what she is not. She clings to the idea that her husband cared nothing for his OW. This is because she loves her husband and the worst case scenario for her would be that he gave his love to someone else, so she can more easily justify the physical affair by believing that he still loves her and only her. In her situation, and almost every other situation like this, the truth is more than likely somewhere in the middle and she will never know for sure.

 

Like I said... it all depends on what you are fed and what you are willing to eat. Your cheating spouse knows you, which means they also know how to manipulate you. It's juvenile and naive to believe that a person who has been living a lie up until the day of discovery is going to all of a sudden come clean and tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth regarding their infidelity.

 

 

There is a tremendous amount of wisdom in what you are writing. The 'truth'. Well, it is something that can sometimes run parallel to the awareness and maturity of the WS. And, the willingness of the BS to endure the journey of what it takes to get there. I frankly don't know which is harder... to know that your spouse committed infidelity without feelings for the AP or with feelings for the AP. Both have their torments. One isn't easier than the other.

 

Without feelings, the BS has to endure the heartbreak of the loss of the intimacy and breach of the vow for no genuine reason whatsoever except an orgasm. A cheap thrill in exchange for the devastation of the heart of their spouse.

 

With feelings, the BS has to endure the heartbreak of their spouse loving someone else and expressing that love in sex. A realization that the BS is not all that special after all and what it implies concerning the WS's ability to back their previous choice when they 'selected' their spouse 'above all others'.

 

Both are venomous. Both cut. One is not easier than the other, trust me. They both lead to destruction. So the idea that it is easier to believe there were no authentic feelings for the AP can be more hurtful as it implies the marriage was trashed for virtually nothing other than a fleeting thrill. So how can believing that there were no true feelings for the AP be construed as a cop out?

[In_Repair]

I don't mean to imply that it is a cop out, but rather a way of coping. An affair is devastating in soooo many ways for the BS, but each particular BS will cling to different aspects of the same scenario. The bottom line is that your spouse broke their vows and risked your family to feed their own selfishness and feelings of entitlement. For a BS, everything else is just details to get lost in. A BS of an EA will find comfort in the fact that their spouse never had sex with the other person. The BS of a purely PA will find comfort in knowing that their spouse didn't love the other person. One is really just as bad as the other, but a BS who wishes to stay in the marriage will always seek to somewhat justify their WS's behavior.

[tami-chan]

If your wife ever gets an inkling that you are this upset over the loss of your OW, your marriage is doomed.

 

Wow. If I ever thought for a second that my H considered the OW as anything more than a stupid mistake he made with a desperate woman, I would have never considered reconciliation. Frankly the only feeling I got from him about the "loss" of her (he ended it, not her), was relief. I don't think I could have tolerated the thought that he actually cared for her.

 

Listening to you mourn the loss of your OW "like a death" makes me sick to my stomach...and I'm not even your wife!

 

and yet....some people think there were no real feelings in affairs... Exhibit A

[jj33]

Catch up Tami. If the BS didnt buy the story given by the WS, (and some of them are doozies, my fav being she took a long train ride to another country pretending to be there to see my Hs friend) they couldnt reconcile. The WS for whatever reason doesnt want a divorce. If he says I love her more than I can ever have imagined but I want to reconcile, many BSs would NOT take them back.

 

So instead they say she meant nothing to me.

[Gamine]

I don't mean to imply that it is a cop out, but rather a way of coping. An affair is devastating in soooo many ways for the BS, but each particular BS will cling to different aspects of the same scenario. The bottom line is that your spouse broke their vows and risked your family to feed their own selfishness and feelings of entitlement. For a BS, everything else is just details to get lost in. A BS of an EA will find comfort in the fact that their spouse never had sex with the other person. The BS of a purely PA will find comfort in knowing that their spouse didn't love the other person. One is really just as bad as the other, but a BS who wishes to stay in the marriage will always seek to somewhat justify their WS's behavior.

 

 

Speaking for myself, I can only find comfort in the truth. An action that involves my husband 'telling me what I want to hear' is even more destructive. Either the relationship can be respected or it cannot. Many of the BS's I've read posts from seem to indicate a rather intense desire on their behalf to get to the bottom of it. They want the truth. The affair was a broad based version of a lie. The lie is what is cutting. Lying, no matter what the form, is cutting in any relationship no matter what it is.

 

As a BS I want the truth and the right to make decisions in my life based upon the truth. Nothing more and nothing less. Many spouses of WS's write that their spouses had to go into therapy to be able to 'deal' with the truth. To explain the truth. The truth is the truth and there is one that runs through everything... every relationship one could possibly imagine.

 

No one wants to be made a fool of and disgraced. I am 1000% certain that a majority of BS's would agree that they want to know the truth. With that information, which is of vital importance, one has the God given right to make informed choices that will impact the rest of their lives. Often it is suggested that BS's want more lies so they can continue to delude themselves regarding the 'supposed love' that their spouse may or may not be faking. I don't know of any sentient being who would ever want such a thing.

 

I frankly don't have a preference concerning the sum and total of the facts. Why on earth would I want to make lifelong choices to be with a man based upon false pretenses when a relationship/marriage for the sake of just having one is of absolutely no importance to me whatsoever? I want the real deal or nothing at all. So it isn't a relief, believe me.

 

No BS wants lip service, trust me on that. Is it more comforting for a BS to 'hear' lip service that says it was a ONS when it was in reality a 25 year long deeply imbedded affair? Would it be easier for a BS to be led to believe that it was an EA with no sex... have them base a decision to remain with their WS... with the truth being that it was an intense, routine, sexual affair? Absolutely not.

 

I'm sure most BS's want the truth. No one wants to live a life whereby their 'most trusted' companion is making a fool out of them.

[In_Repair]

Gamine, where do you find the "truth"? From your WS? Their AP?

 

You get pieces of the truth. The only thing you can be 100% certain about is that your spouse broke their vows and cheated on you.

[Adri Ana]

1) i would like to know weather MM's get karma effect or not and How?

-Surely,everyone does .

 

2) i feel they really miss nothing as compared to OW.

-Hmmm... are you sure ?

 

3) how to come out of the temptation to talk to him again

-Knock your head to the wall each time you want to talk to him again ,

the desire will vanish itself .

 

4) on final closer day he told me - marriage is different and love is different what does this mean?

-He is a stupid a**hole .

Or very pragmatic to marry some old princess to become rich and to have mistresses to love at the same time .

 

5) he told me real love dosent need commitment

-No,no,what for any committment ? You both may spend your night time in any beds of any neighbours and not only .

 

6) why MM look out for EA/PA?

-They hunt open hearts down.

 

7) how is the life for them after OW says good bye for ever !!

-They seek another OW !

[Gamine]

Gamine, where do you find the "truth"? From your WS? Their AP?

 

You get pieces of the truth. The only thing you can be 100% certain about is that your spouse broke their vows and cheated on you.

 

Reasons weigh in monumentally with our judicial system, religious and spiritual based systems, employment situations, familial relationships, spousal relationships, friendships. The reasons behind your best friend not showing up for a lunch date... matters. Employers care why you were late. Kill someone accidentally with a vehicle or stab them to death. Reasons. Motivations. All having the same result. But how and why matter.

 

Trials weigh in on the facts to support not only admissions or denials... but causation and intent. Virtually every human interaction has outcomes, however we do care about how the outcome came about.

 

The same applies to cheating. Yes, my husband wound up in the sack with someone. In my weighing of the facts (I was the lucky gal who got to read their emails) obtained as 'evidence', psychologists weighing in, and my spouse's 'testimony' I arrived at (no differently than a judge or jury) what I conclude was the truth.

 

Empirical data. A probable, provable, demonstrable truth.

 

Is the subjective reality of each of the participants in a situation valid? Sometimes a subjective reality can be only 'impressions' or feelings. I examined all pertinent and obtainable facts and derived a logical conclusion with no tie to an outcome. When I discovered the affair I made it clear to my husband that I was there for him, the person who used to be my lover and friend, to see that he was going to be okay. He was suffering emotional and psychological roadblocks. I was not there to save a marriage. Therefore, the outcome of the facts was not relative to hearing or arriving at a desired result.

 

Reconciliation, building on what was... was completely out of the question... at least from a 'traditional' point of view. The old marriage was completely trashed.

 

Our relationship is one of starting over. Not rebuilding. Its about getting to know who he is on a day to day basis...and frankly he's doing the same. Very much focused on taking one day at a time... as it comes.

 

I never really wanted to get married. Marriage seemed to be a trap to me when I was single. I married a man, an individual. Not the institution of marriage. I have no innate ability to conform. Any attempt for me to 'conform' by external force turns me cold... and I run the other way. However, I like the guy and he, the person, is unique to me. So being faithful and spending my time with him is natural. Being with some other guy wouldn't be the same thing... I've dated, dated, and dated. I know the score. And, I know that my companion is also my playmate and my lover.