What gave it away initially?

[delirious]

Okay I am just curious as to what gave the A away. The first time he ever did it or the only time. (Serial cheaters excepted) BSs please tell how you found out. It is really interesting. Share your stories of discovery. And, how you took it further to prove his/her infidelity. I am really curious. MM/MW go to great lengths to disguise their A so how did you discover it and after how long into the A?

[herenow]

I couldn't reach him when he was with the OW. There was a family emergency and he didn't answer his cell phone. He was so horrified by the fact that I needed him when he was with the OW that he confessed and told the whole truth. He could have lied and gotten away with it, but he didn't.

 

He later said that he was glad he was caught. The OW was putting too much pressure on him and he didn't know how (or have the balls) to end it.

[Mr. Lucky]

A friend told me that he spotted my W in a club on the other side of town from where her "business meeting" should have been. When I asked her the next day how her meeting was, she said that, other than running late, it was "fine" ...

 

Mr. Lucky

[jwi71]

I was clueless about it until my now xW skipped our daughters fifth birthday party to spend the day with her OM. She told she was going to the office...but I suspected otherwise - it was Sunday.

 

Doh!

 

JW

[jj33]

Not everyone goes to great lengths to hide things. I think some people actually want to be caught - then the ending of the marriage or things coming to a head is not "their fault" insofar as they dont have to confess directly.

 

They look like they are trying to be discreet but really if you look closely they are usually just that little bit sloppy about it.

[NoIDidn't]

Other than the fact that he stopped talking to me about "us", I really had no other clues. It was conducted completely at work, with the exception of ONE day. The next morning, I had all the proof of what was "stressing" him out that I needed.

 

Sometimes, the job makes it easy to hide an affair.

[White Flower]

Other than the fact that he stopped talking to me about "us", I really had no other clues. It was conducted completely at work, with the exception of ONE day. The next morning, I had all the proof of what was "stressing" him out that I needed.

 

Sometimes, the job makes it easy to hide an affair.

THAT is an understatement!!

 

My guy was caught on the cell phone with me and he must have been reeeaaaal cocky because he DIDN'T delete my number after that and left his phone in plain view. His W picked it up and called me. Fortunately, I was doing the evening dishes and missed the call. If I'd answered, she would have confronted me. I kind of wish I did take that call now, it might have been an interesting conversation! He said he didn't know whose number it was and she didn't hear him talking as I was into a long story when she walked up behind him so she didn't hear him flirting or anything. She decided to believe him and he whisked her away on some romantic vacation and I dumped him.

[tami-chan]

The OW called and introduced herself as the "gf"...then came to my house...and we both waited for H to come home.

[MSUE]

I was clueless about it until my now xW skipped our daughters fifth birthday party to spend the day with her OM. She told she was going to the office...but I suspected otherwise - it was Sunday.

 

Doh!

 

JW

wow that was really f***** up to miss your own daughter's bday...yikes

[bentnotbroken]

Let's just say that Mr. Messy being the classic NPD that he is(as is the ow)they both felt as if no one was smart enough catch them. They used the fact that their spouses trusted them. Mr. Messy used my depression and my self medicating to conduct his business. Give her a couple of drinks before bed, leave after she is out.

 

He also traveled for his job. Has since we've been married. Again, I trusted him. He had given me no reason not to(little did I know), so if he said he had to leave on business for a few days, okay. He always called the kids like usual, would give me a time when he wouldn't be in meetings for me to call. Give me a hotel number(until the last time, like that wouldn't send up a red flag). His biggest mistake other than emails, text messages, and a journal with names, dates, and numbers....thinking that i am stupid. My IQ test is higher than his(but being a SAHM meant I must be stupid), I always had better grades in college than he did, and I have street smarts he will never have. Growing up in a rough family has it's advantages:D Depressed, doesn't mean stupid. A lesson he and ow learned the hard way.

 

You play to hurt others, be prepared to get a world of pain of your own, especially if you deal with a rough neck.

[seibert253]

The OW called and introduced herself as the "gf"...then came to my house...and we both waited for H to come home.

 

WOW.

I can only imagine what he felt when he walked in the door. Oh Sh#t comes to mind.

[Sanafa]

We were not hidden, spent a great deal of time together out and about and several who "knew" , believed we were a couple.

 

They lived parallel lives, simple - So how did we get caught?

 

A "friend" sent emails to all three of us, not only outing our Affair but his previous history in with alternative activities.

 

I still have no idea why she thought sharing all she did would benefit his wife, however her opinion was that our "lifestyle" choices were sick and she truly wanted myself and him to be apart but also wanted to see him kicked to the curb and did everything possible to make a reconciliation impossible.

 

I am still uncertain after all she has learned, they will be able to make it work.... they truly have a mountain to climb and I was only the tip of the iceberg.

 

I could even understand the idea that " she had a right to know" .... but I can't and never will understand sharing so much to the point that I wonder if she sleeps... to me that is simply cruel and the friends response was " tough love".

[2sure]

Initially, one of H's OW stalked me. Phone calls, notes on my car, etc. Who else would stalk ME but someone interested in him?

[bentnotbroken]

We were not hidden, spent a great deal of time together out and about and several who "knew" , believed we were a couple.

 

They lived parallel lives, simple - So how did we get caught?

 

A "friend" sent emails to all three of us, not only outing our Affair but his previous history in with alternative activities.

 

I still have no idea why she thought sharing all she did would benefit his wife, however her opinion was that our "lifestyle" choices were sick and she truly wanted myself and him to be apart but also wanted to see him kicked to the curb and did everything possible to make a reconciliation impossible.

 

I am still uncertain after all she has learned, they will be able to make it work.... they truly have a mountain to climb and I was only the tip of the iceberg.

 

I could even understand the idea that " she had a right to know" .... but I can't and never will understand sharing so much to the point that I wonder if she sleeps... to me that is simply cruel and the friends response was " tough love".

 

 

I am one of those people who shared everything that I knew with BS(and it was very painful for both of us to read what was said and the extent to which they went to in order to hurt us. Even setting us up to be in the same places together) and I would do it again for anyone who doesn't have a clue. It bothers me more to see someone taken advantage of and them living in danger and without knowledge of that danger. If they were to get a disease or hurt by some off the rocker talker as 2sure, I would feel guilty. Telling not an issue for me. A true friend doesn't let another get hurt, IMO. I can understand the friends stance.

[Sanafa]

I am one of those people who shared everything that I knew with BS(and it was very painful for both of us to read what was said and the extent to which they went to in order to hurt us. Even setting us up to be in the same places together) and I would do it again for anyone who doesn't have a clue. It bothers me more to see someone taken advantage of and them living in danger and without knowledge of that danger. If they were to get a disease or hurt by some off the rocker talker as 2sure, I would feel guilty. Telling not an issue for me. A true friend doesn't let another get hurt, IMO. I can understand the friends stance.

 

I understand telling her, I do not understand going into details or giving opinions which she did. I think at that point, telling all she did, it would have been the choice of the W to ask the MM for details.

 

We are not talking vanilla, at all... and the shock alone I can't even grasp. Especially if you are married 20+years and are only learning now about the fetishs, etc.

 

If you want to tell, you tell the basic's but you don't force anyone to hear the details that they may choose not to hear, that is just hurtful

 

BTW.... initially it was anonymous email... so the person didn't have the guts to say it in person and did not know the W, only myself and MM.

[Peanut9330]

I had a bad feeling because he was acting a little different so I confronted him about it, I said I know there is someone else and he denied it but I kept pushing till he broke down started crying and admitted it, that was the last conversation we ever had, I was done.

[bentnotbroken]

I understand telling her, I do not understand going into details or giving opinions which she did. I think at that point, telling all she did, it would have been the choice of the W to ask the MM for details.

 

We are not talking vanilla, at all... and the shock alone I can't even grasp. Especially if you are married 20+years and are only learning now about the fetishs, etc.

 

If you want to tell, you tell the basic's but you don't force anyone to hear the details that they may choose not to hear, that is just hurtful

 

BTW.... initially it was anonymous email... so the person didn't have the guts to say it in person and did not know the W, only myself and MM.

 

 

I did ask if he wanted all the details, he said yes, so I gave him copies of everything I had. They hadn't been married 20+ years, but I had. So trust me, I completely understand the shock of all the things you never thought your spouse even considered, much less was capable of doing. :sick:as a BS, it was more hurtful to know he put my life at risk for his pleasure. I don't believe all BS want to hear/know the truth. I do believe the majority want the whole truth to make an informed decision about their lives. If the friend hadn't told, it was a pretty good bet that her WH wasn't going to tell it, since he hadn't confessed anything to that point. It is the law of "COVER MY OWN AZZ TO MINIMIZE MY OWN DISCOMFORT" it's a given for most cheaters. You see it on here all the time.

 

They tell part of it, trickle truth someone to death and still want everyone else to cover their dirt. Someone (anonymous or not) did have the courage to do something. Something to tip her off, to open her eyes. Now what she does with that info is entirely up to her. But SHE gets to decide the rest of her life with all the pieces of the puzzle. You never get a whole picture if some of the pieces are missing. If he got away with most of it, he would do it again. Part of being a base level human. Treat her like crap and with know respect, as long as she doesn't find out, she'll be fine. He gets to make that judgement about someone else's life, but her friend doesn't?

 

If her friend didn't act out of love, it is clear he wasn't either. Or he would have kept his miniature brain in his pants. He gave his opinion that she didn't need to know about his extracurricular activities. He gave his opinion that she was better off in the dark. He gave his opinion that his needs outweighed anything he felt for her. He forced her to live a life she didn't choose. He forced her to live a lie. He forced her, with all his choices to live her life on half truths and hidden agendas. Seems like one more person forcing an opinion on her life shouldn't be that much more complicated.

[Sanafa]

I did ask if he wanted all the details, he said yes, so I gave him copies of everything I had. They hadn't been married 20+ years, but I had. So trust me, I completely understand the shock of all the things you never thought your spouse even considered, much less was capable of doing. :sick:as a BS, it was more hurtful to know he put my life at risk for his pleasure. I don't believe all BS want to hear/know the truth. I do believe the majority want the whole truth to make an informed decision about their lives. If the friend hadn't told, it was a pretty good bet that her WH wasn't going to tell it, since he hadn't confessed anything to that point. It is the law of "COVER MY OWN AZZ TO MINIMIZE MY OWN DISCOMFORT" it's a given for most cheaters. You see it on here all the time.

 

They tell part of it, trickle truth someone to death and still want everyone else to cover their dirt. Someone (anonymous or not) did have the courage to do something. Something to tip her off, to open her eyes. Now what she does with that info is entirely up to her. But SHE gets to decide the rest of her life with all the pieces of the puzzle. You never get a whole picture if some of the pieces are missing. If he got away with most of it, he would do it again. Part of being a base level human. Treat her like crap and with know respect, as long as she doesn't find out, she'll be fine. He gets to make that judgement about someone else's life, but her friend doesn't?

 

If her friend didn't act out of love, it is clear he wasn't either. Or he would have kept his miniature brain in his pants. He gave his opinion that she didn't need to know about his extracurricular activities. He gave his opinion that she was better off in the dark. He gave his opinion that his needs outweighed anything he felt for her. He forced her to live a life she didn't choose. He forced her to live a lie. He forced her, with all his choices to live her life on half truths and hidden agendas. Seems like one more person forcing an opinion on her life shouldn't be that much more complicated.

 

 

I understand and agree but you don't understand this person didn't know her at all! They did it to hurt us, and "wake her up"....guess I just wish it would have come from someone who actually cared about her.

 

This person had no invested interest other than to determine on their own that our lifestyle ( she was fine with the affair but not with other information she obtained) was "sinful".

 

I would even have respected her more if she came to either of us and said, you tell her or I will. Instead she hid behind annoymous emails for weeks, adding little blows along the way and it wasn't until she sent a friend and I am guessing his W a letter ( again anonymous...however I then knew because of the friend they sent mine to and called her on it)

 

I don't know... people may not like that I am direct, but I am certainly not going to hide behind fake names if I truly believe I am doing the right thing.

[bentnotbroken]

I understand and agree but you don't understand this person didn't know her at all! They did it to hurt us, and "wake her up"....guess I just wish it would have come from someone who actually cared about her.

 

This person had no invested interest other than to determine on their own that our lifestyle ( she was fine with the affair but not with other information she obtained) was "sinful".

 

I would even have respected her more if she came to either of us and said, you tell her or I will. Instead she hid behind annoymous emails for weeks, adding little blows along the way and it wasn't until she sent a friend and I am guessing his W a letter ( again anonymous...however I then knew because of the friend they sent mine to and called her on it)

 

I don't know... people may not like that I am direct, but I am certainly not going to hide behind fake names if I truly believe I am doing the right thing.

 

 

Not to try to beat you or up or anything, but I guess I find your stance kind of odd and contradictory.

 

1) you say that you would have rather someone who cared for her told her, but you didn't insist her H do it, does he not care for her?

 

2)You say they told to hurt you, but also to wake her up, shouldn't she have been aware her life wasn't what she thought? Weren't you and MM hurting her with lies of omission?

 

3)the informant was okay with the A, but the sinful nature of other things was too much for them to bare. Neither you nor MM felt any of it was too sinful to tell the BS

 

4)you say you would have respected informant more if she had come to you 2 first. It seems there was very little respect going around for the BS from the 2 A partners, so why should respect be given to the AP? Or better yet, does informant care if you don't respect them?

 

5)I don't think most people mind direct, but it seems you really weren't that direct. You were having an A with MM and you(nor he)directly told BS. That seems like you are trying to have it both ways. Direct when it suits your needs, but not direct if it doesn't. Because you weren't direct with her, does that mean that you didn't believe you were doing the right thing?

 

I would think that is what informant did. Are you still angry with informant? If they had come to you with the proposal to give you a chance to tell the BS, would the 2 of you told her everything, would you have lied to her with the "just friends" line and MM gas lighted her or tell her just enough to appease her and let the smoke clear before resuming your A?

 

I find your stance fascinating.

[Chubbi]

I would even have respected her more if she came to either of us and said, you tell her or I will. Instead she hid behind annoymous emails for weeks, adding little blows along the way and it wasn't until she sent a friend and I am guessing his W a letter ( again anonymous...however I then knew because of the friend they sent mine to and called her on it)

 

I don't know... people may not like that I am direct, but I am certainly not going to hide behind fake names if I truly believe I am doing the right thing.

 

Sana, more and more you sound extremely foggy to me. I suggest you keep on as you're doing- getting out your frustrations- but come back here after two years and read and comment on your posts.

 

To me, you sound like a pouty teenager because someone ended your happy affair without your permission, and then you did a value judgment on them because "she didn't care about his W." Does that really make a difference to a BW who tells her? Just because the person didn't care- so what? A person told his BW the truth- the truth will hurt no matter how it came out- annoymous or otherwise, details or lacking- the BS imagination can fill in the rest.

 

The woman who told her isn't the woman who hurt your MM's BS, Sana. It was the affair. Your MM hurt her, and you helped her to. Shouldn't you get equally angry at him, if you're so concerned about the betrayed spouse's feelings? Shouldn't you be equally calling him a coward for not choosing his feelings?

[bentnotbroken]

Sana, more and more you sound extremely foggy to me. I suggest you keep on as you're doing- getting out your frustrations- but come back here after two years and read and comment on your posts.

 

To me, you sound like a pouty teenager because someone ended your happy affair without your permission, and then you did a value judgment on them because "she didn't care about his W." Does that really make a difference to a BW who tells her? Just because the person didn't care- so what? A person told his BW the truth- the truth will hurt no matter how it came out- annoymous or otherwise, details or lacking- the BS imagination can fill in the rest.

 

The woman who told her isn't the woman who hurt your MM's BS, Sana. It was the affair. Your MM hurt her, and you helped her to. Shouldn't you get equally angry at him, if you're so concerned about the betrayed spouse's feelings? Shouldn't you be equally calling him a coward for not choosing his feelings?

 

 

I was exteremely hurt and angry to find out how many people knew and no one had the balls to tell me. They looked me and my kids in the face and said nothing. I would have welcomed anonymous. I would have welcomed anything, then I wouldn't have had to deal with HIV tests and counseling for my children.

[Sanafa]

Not to try to beat you or up or anything, but I guess I find your stance kind of odd and contradictory.

 

1) you say that you would have rather someone who cared for her told her, but you didn't insist her H do it, does he not care for her?

 

2)You say they told to hurt you, but also to wake her up, shouldn't she have been aware her life wasn't what she thought? Weren't you and MM hurting her with lies of omission?

 

3)the informant was okay with the A, but the sinful nature of other things was too much for them to bare. Neither you nor MM felt any of it was too sinful to tell the BS

 

4)you say you would have respected informant more if she had come to you 2 first. It seems there was very little respect going around for the BS from the 2 A partners, so why should respect be given to the AP? Or better yet, does informant care if you don't respect them?

 

5)I don't think most people mind direct, but it seems you really weren't that direct. You were having an A with MM and you(nor he)directly told BS. That seems like you are trying to have it both ways. Direct when it suits your needs, but not direct if it doesn't. Because you weren't direct with her, does that mean that you didn't believe you were doing the right thing?

 

I would think that is what informant did. Are you still angry with informant? If they had come to you with the proposal to give you a chance to tell the BS, would the 2 of you told her everything, would you have lied to her with the "just friends" line and MM gas lighted her or tell her just enough to appease her and let the smoke clear before resuming your A?

 

I find your stance fascinating.

 

 

Not feeling beat up, let me see if I can try to answer honestly.

 

1. Of course we were not right. No question in mind, but I was involved and new that he was married, so I also had to "own" that. Was I hurting her if she didn't know? Yes, and again I haven't suggested otherwise at anytime. Did I think it was better for her not to know, yes - simply put I was not and was never going to ask him to break up his family. They lived parallel lives for years, it wasn't like he was different with her because of the affair or that anything in their life had changed to any great extent. Not saying I was right, but telling you where I sat in it.

 

2. This may be hard to believe, but when I met MM, we were who we were, no need for lies or to hide something about ourselves. I am a firm *still believer that you should not be ashamed of who you are, what you find pleasure in and how you as an adult choose to live your life. I accepted him fully, and in turn fell in love with him... clouded, certainly but no more than a W who loves her husband can be. Did I want to protect him and us, of course I did.

 

3. As for the "sinful" behaviour - that is judgement, there are many people out there that would find his likes/dislikes perfectly acceptable. So, do I find it hypocritical that they would verbally support us in our affair yet judge on our bedroom activities, YES, Yes I do.

 

4.Had Informant come to me or us and told us what she learned, and how she felt than I am 100% certain that he would have came clean. We were not trying to hurt her, but I do believe he would have preferred owning up much rather than some aggressive and rude emails popping in our inbox's on a Monday. No question one of us would have done it, even if it had to be me I still would have done it with a little more empathy.

 

5. You are correct, I was living a lie, one that I choose and one that I will remain responsible for. I would have never told... that is also the truth.... and on the flip of that, had she ever talked to me, I would have never lied to her face- and yes, he was aware of that. I did the best I could to not invade her territory, we did not discuss their relationship, nor at anytime did either of us put her down. Little solace and I understand that, and I don't expect kudo's for that but I was as respectful as possible considering I was having an affair with MM.

 

And finally....... no question what I did was wrong....no even debatable! I am simply being honest with my responses.

[bentnotbroken]

Honesty appreciated. Again, I find it truly fascinating. What we as humans do to ourselves and each other to get the things we want. Human nature has always been of interest. Whether it is because of the different personalities in my life or the way I grew up. Still leads me to dig a little deeper.

[Sanafa]

Honesty appreciated. Again, I find it truly fascinating. What we as humans do to ourselves and each other to get the things we want. Human nature has always been of interest. Whether it is because of the different personalities in my life or the way I grew up. Still leads me to dig a little deeper.

 

I agree and I also find humans highly interesting.

 

The thing is, if I say there was an instant connection people will go... whatever, head in the clouds, etc and in truth I am not sure if that is because people don't believe in such a thing or if it is because they have never experienced it.

 

A year ago, I would have said that I was in love before ( 8 year relationship, lived together for 6), however when I met MM, I realized true love runs far deeper. It is understanding without judgement, without having to understand something to accept it. To be able to comfortably stand up for your own beliefs while allowing the other to do the exact same thing. And by far the biggest idea that has been drilled home for me in my situation... SEX is not love..... so many woman ( not all) equate it and I think being the OW that is one of my biggest annoyances. Many BS will say we were the "sex kitten" having monkey sex and doing things that they would never do to keep the husband in the affair.

 

We had a very active and perhaps colorful sex life, but that only came with the true feeling of no judgement and acceptance and it was a small part of the affair, intimacy in all forms was the core.

[bentnotbroken]

I agree and I also find humans highly interesting.

 

The thing is, if I say there was an instant connection people will go... whatever, head in the clouds, etc and in truth I am not sure if that is because people don't believe in such a thing or if it is because they have never experienced it.

 

A year ago, I would have said that I was in love before ( 8 year relationship, lived together for 6), however when I met MM, I realized true love runs far deeper. It is understanding without judgement, without having to understand something to accept it. To be able to comfortably stand up for your own beliefs while allowing the other to do the exact same thing. And by far the biggest idea that has been drilled home for me in my situation... SEX is not love..... so many woman ( not all) equate it and I think being the OW that is one of my biggest annoyances. Many BS will say we were the "sex kitten" having monkey sex and doing things that they would never do to keep the husband in the affair.

 

We had a very active and perhaps colorful sex life, but that only came with the true feeling of no judgement and acceptance and it was a small part of the affair, intimacy in all forms was the core.

 

 

Judgement in a real marriage is necessary and required. Just as it is any relationship where you want the absolute best for the person involved. My belief is that I wanted to spend eternity with the man I married, that means that we would have had to live a certain way for us to be together. If he and anyone else has the courage of their convictions, I don't see why it is so hard for them to just say so, like Lizzie. I don't agree with her life, but she says it and stands by it.

 

I just don't think I will ever understand deceit on such a personal level.