What gave it away initially?

[Sanafa]

Judgement in a real marriage is necessary and required. Just as it is any relationship where you want the absolute best for the person involved. My belief is that I wanted to spend eternity with the man I married, that means that we would have had to live a certain way for us to be together. If he and anyone else has the courage of their convictions, I don't see why it is so hard for them to just say so, like Lizzie. I don't agree with her life, but she says it and stands by it.

 

I just don't think I will ever understand deceit on such a personal level.

 

Ah, now see this is where we disagree and perhaps explains more of our differing viewpoints.

 

I do not believe Judgement has any part of a "real" marriage. Who are you ( or anyone) to say what is right or wrong or how someone else should live?

 

I do agree that you have a choice, however sitting in judgement is different than accepting and choosing to stay or go.

 

Judgement serves little purposes other than to sit above someone suggesting you know better. IMO, no one is in a position to judge and truth.....had my MM even thought he could express his desires/wants 10 years ago....

 

I can say with a fair amount of certainty he would not have hidden what he did, it was fear of judgement that started him on the path.... from there being lonely and feeling hidden lead to lack of intimacy ( if you can't trust your SO with your deep secrets, seriously- whats the point) and in turn lead him to stray.

[bentnotbroken]

Ah, now see this is where we disagree and perhaps explains more of our differing viewpoints.

 

I do not believe Judgement has any part of a "real" marriage. Who are you ( or anyone) to say what is right or wrong or how someone else should live?

 

I do agree that you have a choice, however sitting in judgement is different than accepting and choosing to stay or go.

 

Judgement serves little purposes other than to sit above someone suggesting you know better. IMO, no one is in a position to judge and truth.....had my MM even thought he could express his desires/wants 10 years ago....

 

I can say with a fair amount of certainty he would not have hidden what he did, it was fear of judgement that started him on the path.... from there being lonely and feeling hidden lead to lack of intimacy ( if you can't trust your SO with your deep secrets, seriously- whats the point) and in turn lead him to stray.

 

 

Ahhh, we do disagree. But the term of judgement. Judging something that we do daily to survive. Is what I mean. Sitting in judgement, only God has that right or that power. I don't see things clearly, I see them from my human point of view. And in that view I see things that aren't always viewed fairly. I can't be fair. I wouldn't wan to be fair, let's face it I would love to see some people boiled in their own pudding and roasted over an open flame. It is something I am still praying on:o.

 

My belief system requires that couples hold each other accountable and to the standard that God set. The bible talks of us seeing one of us headed for sin and the rest of us being held accountable for not trying to help. If they chose not to listen, then that's fine, but we are to try.

 

Judging doesn't mean to sit above anyone. It means to discern, to chose. It means to decide what is the best course of action. We do it daily. With our clothes, our friends, our neighborhoods, our college(fans are usually pretty rabid in their judgement of "our team is better than your team"), churches, no churches, dating partners, potential mates, the best parenting styles, on and on.

 

We tend to only use the term judgement when someone else doesn't like our decisions. As long as we are with a group who agrees with us, we don't think they are judging, yet they are. They have made the same decision you have, hence the agreement. We are taught to judge. Parents teach their children to chose the "right" friends. To chose the "right" sports and organizations. The "right" colleges and and careers. These are all based decisions based on our choices/ judging.

 

The Christian marriage is a bond, set between 2 people and God. It has requirements to maintain a strong bond by holding each other accountable with saying what is right and what is wrong. It is necessary to maintain a strong marital bond and a strong bond with God.

 

Now I know based on previous posts this isn't your position and you don't agree with it. My decision wasn't made lightly or on the fly. It was years in the making, years of ignoring, dismissing, scoffing and researching. When I finally made the choice(and I thought Mr. Messy had too...something else he lied about)I promised myself and my God that I would honor his Word with obedience. I don't expect you or anyone else who doesn't live the life to understand that, and that is good.

 

We all call things wrong that we view as wrong. Murder is something most of us agree on, therefore we don't call each other judgemental. Rape and child molestation are two other examples that most of us and most societies all agree on, so no one cries judgemental. It's only the ones we don't agree on that get the label. Should I call you judgemental when I am told that I am wrong for my beliefs or should I accept that someone doesn't agree with me? I say instead of us calling each other judgemental, we agree to disagree and live our lives according to our own convictions.

[me003]

My friend knew her husband was into bondage and other "non normal" sexual acts. She did not fell comfortable in it. yet felt confident in marrying him. She gave him the go a head to find another to get his fetish going.

 

H ended up leaving her from the other lady. from what she said OW, was fatter than her. I just don't get this. If you are not sexually compatible with your spouse and you know that you can never be able to be, why marry him and THEN allow him to get sex from another person AND expect him to not think with his other head.

 

I guess she thought he would change (most of us women think this) Not sure here, but sexual compatibility should be up there with love and TOTAL commitment to ONE person.

[bentnotbroken]

Ah, now see this is where we disagree and perhaps explains more of our differing viewpoints.

 

I do not believe Judgement has any part of a "real" marriage. Who are you ( or anyone) to say what is right or wrong or how someone else should live?

 

I do agree that you have a choice, however sitting in judgement is different than accepting and choosing to stay or go.

 

Judgement serves little purposes other than to sit above someone suggesting you know better. IMO, no one is in a position to judge and truth.....had my MM even thought he could express his desires/wants 10 years ago....

 

I can say with a fair amount of certainty he would not have hidden what he did, it was fear of judgement that started him on the path.... from there being lonely and feeling hidden lead to lack of intimacy ( if you can't trust your SO with your deep secrets, seriously- whats the point) and in turn lead him to stray.

 

 

And no one can lead a grown man to do what he knows isn't right. Only he can do that for himself. If he can be lead around so easily because he felt some type of pressure to be what his wife needed, then maybe he really needs a nanny instead of sexcapades. Responsible adults aren't made to cheat by lacking something. They choose to cheat.

[Trialbyfire]

I can't explain it beyond gut instinct.

[bentnotbroken]

My friend knew her husband was into bondage and other "non normal" sexual acts. She did not fell comfortable in it. yet felt confident in marrying him. She gave him the go a head to find another to get his fetish going.

 

H ended up leaving her from the other lady. from what she said OW, was fatter than her. I just don't get this. If you are not sexually compatible with your spouse and you know that you can never be able to be, why marry him and THEN allow him to get sex from another person AND expect him to not think with his other head.

 

I guess she thought he would change (most of us women think this) Not sure here, but sexual compatibility should be up there with love and TOTAL commitment to ONE person.

 

She asked for trouble by allowing hims to bring someone else into her marriage. That was a risk she shouldn't have taken. And I agree if she wasn't into it before marriage, she wasn't going to change after the I do's .

[me003]

I say instead of us calling each other judgemental, we agree to disagree and live our lives according to our own convictions.

 

I agree with this 100%... It think this is the best way to end something in which each party will not back down from what they believe. Some of us can be persuaded to change our views and some of us can't.

[Sanafa]

My friend knew her husband was into bondage and other "non normal" sexual acts. She did not fell comfortable in it. yet felt confident in marrying him. She gave him the go a head to find another to get his fetish going.

 

H ended up leaving her from the other lady. from what she said OW, was fatter than her. I just don't get this. If you are not sexually compatible with your spouse and you know that you can never be able to be, why marry him and THEN allow him to get sex from another person AND expect him to not think with his other head.

 

I guess she thought he would change (most of us women think this) Not sure here, but sexual compatibility should be up there with love and TOTAL commitment to ONE person.

 

Bondage is minor and again not something I remotely see as "non normal" and in fact even my most vanilla friends will spice things up by teasing each other while tied.

 

I regress though..... you have to be able to accept a person, and if you know going in that you find something so unusual that you would send your husband to a third and not be involved, then yes.... most likely the writing is on the wall.

 

However spin that..... how do you find out your H of 20 plus years is involved extensively in this for the past 10 plus, and suggest that you can now play with him in that capacity? To me that is not being fair to either party, anticipating change when neither way is "wrong".

 

 

And what does "fatter" have to do with it? That is an irrelevant statement and perhaps a way of BS feeling better??

[Sanafa]

And no one can lead a grown man to do what he knows isn't right. Only he can do that for himself. If he can be lead around so easily because he felt some type of pressure to be what his wife needed, then maybe he really needs a nanny instead of sexcapades. Responsible adults aren't made to cheat by lacking something. They choose to cheat.

 

Do you have any idea how many very successful otherwise happily married men go outside the marriage for these things? Far more than we will ever know because they predominatly visit paid dom's who rely on the discretion for there business.

 

People change, they find they like something they didn't like 5 or 10 years before, that it fills a need. Now, if there is no intimacy and you as the WS know your W/H would be uncomfortable why is it so hard to understand that they would go outside the marriage for their pleasure.

 

And again, we disagree... almost all couples who have an affair as part of their marriage will admit that one or both are or were missing something in the marriage... most often that is intimacy ( either never had it or let it go) and that is a basic need.... as it is the building block for love and acceptance. If you can't talk openly your toast... and if you think for a second you are going to be judged, most won't open the door.

 

I am guessing you find alternative lifestyles difficult to understand?

 

Question, if you found out your H had participated, would it have changed your decision to stay or go? ( just a question, and you certainly don't have to answer)

[jwi71]

1. ... Did I think it was better for her not to know, yes - simply put I was not and was never going to ask him to break up his family. They lived parallel lives for years, it wasn't like he was different with her because of the affair or that anything in their life had changed to any great extent....

 

It seems very naive to think that having an affair WOULDN'T hurt the BS. Not an attack...just an example of the fog...grasping for straws to excuse behavior. One can find further support for that by the hiding and secrecy undertaken FROM the BS. It wasn't in the open...it was hidden away from her. Why the need to hide it if they lived parallel lives (and by extension...loveless...its certainly implied...possibly from MM to you)? Or if discovery would not cause pain to the BS and the children?

 

I cannot reconcile what you say above with what you did...specifically the hiding from the BS...care to comment?

 

I simply think parallel lives does NOT equal lack of love and affection. I believe you are witnessing that now. Why or how did you draw that conclusion - provided its a conclusion you arrived at.

 

2. This may be hard to believe, but when I met MM, we were who we were, no need for lies or to hide something about ourselves. I am a firm *still believer that you should not be ashamed of who you are, what you find pleasure in and how you as an adult choose to live your life. I accepted him fully, and in turn fell in love with him... clouded, certainly but no more than a W who loves her husband can be. Did I want to protect him and us, of course I did.

 

But you did lie. You began the A by lying to yourself and to each other. That you could contain your emotions...just sex. Rarely does that work. As far as shame of ""who you are"...you should be. Be ashamed of what you are capable of. And...is there any difference between ashamed of oneself and ones actions...especially since I believe that actions define who we are. Case in point...do you speak of this A with pride? Please don't construe this as attack...simply be ashamed of how you acted as it insulates you from doing this all over again. If shame is the price for learning...then its a price well paid. That's the rub with experience...first the test THEN the lesson.

 

You speak of loving your MM. How long did you have an A?

And...how old are you?

 

3. As for the "sinful" behaviour - that is judgement, there are many people out there that would find his likes/dislikes perfectly acceptable. So, do I find it hypocritical that they would verbally support us in our affair yet judge on our bedroom activities, YES, Yes I do.

 

Um...this begs the question...and no, its none of my business...but what the hell were you two doing in your "bedroom activities"? I mean, people are accepting of your A (I presume meaning intercourse as well) but when these bedroom activities come to light...they freak. Yikes! The tongue-in-cheek is not conveyed but...that's what came to mind when I read that bullet.

 

4.Had Informant come to me or us and told us what she learned, and how she felt than I am 100% certain that he would have came clean. We were not trying to hurt her, but I do believe he would have preferred owning up much rather than some aggressive and rude emails popping in our inbox's on a Monday. No question one of us would have done it, even if it had to be me I still would have done it with a little more empathy.

 

No you wouldn't. Above in point one and below in point 5 you make the exact opposite point. Please try to not contradict yourself within a single post.

 

No one would blame you for not telling. I don't. An A is shameful and something to be hidden. Its not something one advertises. Ever. Case in point...would you date a man who was divorced because he cheated on his xW?

[jwi71]

I do not believe Judgement has any part of a "real" marriage. Who are you ( or anyone) to say what is right or wrong or how someone else should live?

 

What is a "Real Marriage"?

Have you ever been married?

Do you wish to be married?

 

Judgement serves little purposes other than to sit above someone suggesting you know better. IMO, no one is in a position to judge and truth.....had my MM even thought he could express his desires/wants 10 years ago....

Interesting. Is judging that an affair is wrong mean I am better than you? Have you not judged not only the BS, but yourself and the MM by HIDING the A from the BS? Have you not judged the "informer"? Did people who knew of the A judge you - and found you acceptable?

 

It seems that you have a problem with judgment when it doesn't suit your needs. Well...duh. No one likes that. I'd be interested in hearing your take on judgment as it pertains to marriage, affairs and maybe even life in general.

 

I'm not sure rejecting judgment is possible for a human in practice.

[delirious]

I agree and I also find humans highly interesting.

 

The thing is, if I say there was an instant connection people will go... whatever, head in the clouds, etc and in truth I am not sure if that is because people don't believe in such a thing or if it is because they have never experienced it.

.............

 

I totally agree with this, in a way we are fortunate to have felt such depth of emotion ........feeling utterly compelled to be with someone, despite the consequences. We both felt like this for the first time. Most have no idea what this feels like and as much as it causes us to act in a way we never had before, it causes such depth of pain that we never felt before too. To those that have not experienced this, it would be like telling them to believe in fairies.

[delirious]

Can we get back on to the original topic now as it is very interesting.

[tami-chan]

Hi JW! I can resist responding to this post, I hope you don't mind?

 

It seems very naive to think that having an affair WOULDN'T hurt the BS.

 

Not being a smart-a$$ but how can anything affect anybody if it does not exist in his/her stream of consciousness?

 

Why the need to hide it if they lived parallel lives (and by extension...loveless...its certainly implied...possibly from MM to you)? Or if discovery would not cause pain to the BS and the children?

 

Because parallel does not mean OPEN and thus DISCOVERY will cause pain.

 

I simply think parallel lives does NOT equal lack of love and affection.

 

I agree.

 

But you did lie. You began the A by lying to yourself and to each other. That you could contain your emotions...just sex. Rarely does that work.

 

No she didnt ( at least not to herself). A lie is when you negate a fact or twist it to get a desired result. They did start out like how they planned it...they did not anticipate the deeper emotions that developed. It was naive or maybe misguided but one always wants to be the one to beat the odds. That is why a decision based on "feelings" is very dangerous because feelings are fluid and unstable.

 

 

As far as shame of ""who you are"...you should be. Be ashamed of what you are capable of. And...is there any difference between ashamed of oneself and ones actions...especially since I believe that actions define who we are. Case in point...do you speak of this A with pride? Please don't construe this as attack...simply be ashamed of how you acted as it insulates you from doing this all over again. If shame is the price for learning...then its a price well paid. That's the rub with experience...first the test THEN the lesson.

 

Oh jw, I am disappointed, you are so better than this. She has already expressed all of the above and there was no need to twist the knife....

 

You speak of loving your MM. How long did you have an A?

And...how old are you?

 

I find it really incredible that people would argue (or attempt to argue about anybody's feelings). It's like when somebody complains of pain...one cannot say "no you don't have pain". Feelings are highly subjective, they have to be accepted at face value...in time..things will unravel and the person herself/himself will be able to figure out and sort out the emotions and hopefully be able to sort out which was real or not. Asking somebody's age and length of the relationship is insulting and patronizing, like she is a child.

 

No you wouldn't. Above in point one and below in point 5 you make the exact opposite point. Please try to not contradict yourself within a single post.

 

That's not true, jw, she said she thought it was better for wife not to have known but that (in #5) if the W had talked to her, she wouldn't have lied to her.

 

just my .02

[bentnotbroken]

Do you have any idea how many very successful otherwise happily married men go outside the marriage for these things? Far more than we will ever know because they predominatly visit paid dom's who rely on the discretion for there business.

 

People change, they find they like something they didn't like 5 or 10 years before, that it fills a need. Now, if there is no intimacy and you as the WS know your W/H would be uncomfortable why is it so hard to understand that they would go outside the marriage for their pleasure.

 

And again, we disagree... almost all couples who have an affair as part of their marriage will admit that one or both are or were missing something in the marriage... most often that is intimacy ( either never had it or let it go) and that is a basic need.... as it is the building block for love and acceptance. If you can't talk openly your toast... and if you think for a second you are going to be judged, most won't open the door.

 

I am guessing you find alternative lifestyles difficult to understand?

 

Question, if you found out your H had participated, would it have changed your decision to stay or go? ( just a question, and you certainly don't have to answer)

 

 

Trust and respect are huge issues for me. If those don't exist for me, there is no reason for her to have any type of relationship. And if it were God's will, adultery...the answer is no.

 

 

And do understand alternative lifestyles...very well. Lying about it is the breaking point for me. And yes, I do know a large % of people live secret lives that they feel are fulfilling and okay. Doesn't affect my life what so ever until comes into contact with me personally, like cheating, then I get more than a little pissed.

[Gamine]

Outwardly, his actions with me were highly attentive. I remember him buying me jewelry and investing so much time selecting a leather jacket for me. Getting the size right, etc... Dinners out. Yet, his physical appearance became different. He looked like he had aged 20 years. He grew a beard. I knew it wasn't for me because I told him that I didn't like it... but obviously she did. There was something strange about him. An undercurrent.

 

Then, I began having dreams. I would wake up tell him that I had a dream he was cheating on me and he'd comfort me... taking me in his arms explaining how I am the love of his life and if anything ever happened to me he'd never even date.

 

Yet, I felt uneasy. The whole thing felt off. I was like a cat on a hot tin roof. I began looking through his computer and his receipts. And that is where it all began and that is what led me to the uncovering of the affair.

 

To summarize... it was a gut instinct that blew it open. It went on from mid January to mid May of 2008.

 

Now, I'd like to comment on some of the posts going back and forth concerning sexual identities, the supposed 'rights' endowed to individuals at birth to live them out unfettered, & a spouse's obligation to satisfy all sexual impulses.

 

Unless virgins, people figure out whether they, as a couple, are sexually compatible before marrying. If sexual intimacy is something that evolves exclusively between a husband and a wife throughout the course of the marriage how can one partner wake up one day and realize that they have 'fetishes'. Either there was a lack of disclosure/honesty from the start with their SO or they engaged in other activities such as porn, OW, etc... to get introduced. In other words, this sort of thing isn't exactly the kind of thing that just sneaks up on us. It is usually there in some way shape or form. Now, if one marries a 'traditional' or conventional/reserved person it would be outlandish to suggest that 'now' the spouse should disregard themselves and 'do what' the SO needs. This issue remains on the shoulders of the person who has done the changing. For if sexuality were exclusive between the married couple, and there was honesty concerning sexual compatibility, it would be an impossibility for one of the partners to evolve sexually differently than their partner.

 

So either this fella was holding back the truth from his wife when they got married concerning 'what floats his personal boat' or he was dabbling in extracurricular activities that cultivated and expanded on his 'tastes'. But for the dishonesty with his SO and the extracurricular activities... I wonder how this guy ever evolved into kinky fetish based drives.

 

It is as if the dishonesty and/or the 'other' activities was the breeding ground for the eventual evolution to different sexual camps...so to speak.

 

Now, a spouse shows up with a new sexual identity and knows they have to hide it from their spouse... find someone from the outside to fulfill it... and now 'require' infidelity so they can live out 'being true' to themselves. However, when examined most simplistically, had the spouse not engaged in deception and evolved sexually outside of the marriage infidelity 'would not be required' in order to satiate these new found appetites to begin with.

 

Fetishes are not something that sneaks up on a person overnight like pennies from heaven. We also have choices to indulge an impulse or not... before it becomes a fetish.

 

Recently there was a thread on swinging. Seen by some as a fabulous, yet hidden, 'lifestyle'. I looked it up on the internet curious as to what motivates this in people. The researchers were interested in identifying what might have happened in their past that could explain what was defined in the research as 'deviant' sex. Deviant is the label the researchers gave the 'lifestyle' because it deviates from the norm.

 

Their interest rested in why. What causes someone to move in this direction? I won't go into what they uncovered, but what stood out to me was the clear perception/understanding that something had run amuck here inside of these folks.

 

That it wasn't simply just 'preference'. There was something else here that went wrong.

 

I don't believe that a marriage is a playground for spouses to exploit one another without limitation under the guise of duty to the vow. I believe we owe one another the exact opposite. To temper ourselves out of respect for the other. No one will die if they don't look at porn. No one will die if they can't dress up in women's clothes and get beaten up. If their fetish 'comes out of the blue' then they should either be honest with their spouse and let them mutually decide whether this is good for both of them... if it isn't... the one with the evolving sexual appetite must be honest and either squelch it or get out of the marriage for this pursuit.

[Sanafa]

JW

 

I will be brief because they have asked to put the thread back on track.

 

Bent asked me a question, not what I was thinking now, but what I was thinking in it. I was honest, why are you having such a hard time with that?

 

Tami seemed to understand my post, and I think she said it clearly however to clairify - I never said nor has any of my post ever suggested they didn't care about one another. When someone is being honest, please do not read more into it than what is written.

 

And lastly, why is it if you have someone with a differing opinion people ask the age?

 

I am well past my teens and far closer to middle and I find the fact that you cannot respect someone's view ( an honesty one) without suggesting I am young. I do find that rather offensive.

 

Anyway, everyone enjoy the day... get the thread back on track and I am off for a full day.

[OWoman]

For if sexuality were exclusive between the married couple, and there was honesty concerning sexual compatibility, it would be an impossibility for one of the partners to evolve sexually differently than their partner.

 

How many people in LTRs / Ms are 100% honest with each other, sexually, all of the time? If a single episode of sex is a little boring, repetitive, lacking fireworks, etc - is the partner going to say, "well, that was a complete waste of body fluids!", or are they more likely to mumble something non-commital into their partner's ear? Most people care enough about their partners to be kind, to gloss over any small dissatisfactions or to shrug off the occasional off-day as insignificant in the bigger picture. Yet, over time, those "small dissatisfactions" and "occasional off-days" can add up. It's perfectly possible for partners in LTRs / Ms to grow apart sexually, just as it is for them to grow apart in any other way. Divorce happens all the time. From what people say, much of that seems down to sexual issues - she wants less over time, he wants more (or vice versa); she likes to settle into something predictable that works for her, he wants variety (or vice versa); she wants to wait until the kids are asleep but he wants it when he wants it (or vice versa) in the same way that economic issues, religious incomaptibility or unmatched physical decline play a role.

 

Add to that the "transgressive" nature of many fetishes, and it's understandable that a growing curiosity about something "fringe" could be something a partner doesn't feel comfortable broaching with the other partner until the poitn where s/he feels it to be a compelling interest that they feel driven to explore - with or without the other partner.

[OWoman]

Can we get back on to the original topic now as it is very interesting.

 

 

I am not a BS, and did not have a DDay, but that in itself raises a question - what if all the "clues" are there, and the BS just doesn't want to consider that possibility?

[Gamine]

How many people in LTRs / Ms are 100% honest with each other, sexually, all of the time? If a single episode of sex is a little boring, repetitive, lacking fireworks, etc - is the partner going to say, "well, that was a complete waste of body fluids!", or are they more likely to mumble something non-commital into their partner's ear? Most people care enough about their partners to be kind, to gloss over any small dissatisfactions or to shrug off the occasional off-day as insignificant in the bigger picture. Yet, over time, those "small dissatisfactions" and "occasional off-days" can add up. It's perfectly possible for partners in LTRs / Ms to grow apart sexually, just as it is for them to grow apart in any other way. Divorce happens all the time. From what people say, much of that seems down to sexual issues - she wants less over time, he wants more (or vice versa); she likes to settle into something predictable that works for her, he wants variety (or vice versa); she wants to wait until the kids are asleep but he wants it when he wants it (or vice versa) in the same way that economic issues, religious incomaptibility or unmatched physical decline play a role.

 

Add to that the "transgressive" nature of many fetishes, and it's understandable that a growing curiosity about something "fringe" could be something a partner doesn't feel comfortable broaching with the other partner until the poitn where s/he feels it to be a compelling interest that they feel driven to explore - with or without the other partner.

 

Yes, I agree, however we are referring to something completely divergent from the 'norm' of the relationship.

 

If one is single or unemcumbered in any way it is, of course, their privilege to explore anything as they so desire. However, marriage can be like being in a three legged race, there has to be a stride that is fulfilling for both. Not one overriding the other, for it is with certainty that someone will fall and be left behind. And if the marriage is of preeminent importance, the stride can be something that creates an environment for greater comfort and... in time... may give the very thing the SO requires.

 

The very nature of a traditional, monogamous marriage requires that this is broached and explored or not within the confines of the marriage... or it doesn't happen.

 

Again, if the marriage is monogamous and those are the terms both agreed to in this three legged race, it isn't the option of the MP to explore it outside of the marriage without the consent of their partner. Yes, go ahead and do it with someone else. Or no, I rather you didn't. Then, let the MP with the extra desires face it... make the choices appropriate for honesty within their own life... and proceed.

 

But dishonesty, to me, is never a way to go about anything. I compare dishonesty to theft. It is the theft of the true self and it is a violation of the self of the other... which IMO is the opposite of what marriage should provide.

[Owl]

I "suspected" simply based off the amount of time she was spending online talking with OM, and how she kept trying to get me to like and accept him as a friend. I'd noticed that she had turned her monitor so that I couldn't easily see her screen anymore, for no apparent reason.

 

I point blank asked her twice if there was anything to worry about, and got the "he's just a friend" speech.

 

It came to a head when I came home from work slightly early one day, and watched her go through fits trying to close the IM window she had up with him without my being able to see it. I finally relented and let her close it, without making it obvious that it was an issue, but it was the final straw that told me for sure that she was doing SOMETHING with him that she didn't want me to know about.

 

That night I hacked her email and IM accounts, and enabled logging. She'd scrubbed her email and internet histories, but didn't think to check logging. It took about four days before I could get to her computer again and look at what was going on...d-day was the day I was able to do so.

 

Once I finally got enough "proof" that told me I HAD TO snoop...it was only a matter of time.

[Impudent Oyster]

.

Question, if you found out your H had participated, would it have changed your decision to stay or go? ( just a question, and you certainly don't have to answer)

 

I know you didn't ask me but I'll answer...yes, this would have affected my decision to stay, I wouldn't have.

 

That's because I believe that something like this is a fetish that is probably impossible to break. I would feel my spouse would always want something I wasn't able to give him and he would have too strong of a desire not to go out and get it.

 

In a case like this I believe it's more about the acts than it is about the person they're participating with.

 

The other thing that would have been a deal-breaker is a child. If my husband had gotten the OW pregnant I couldn't stay with him. I really couldn't respect him and would consider him to be too stupid and irresponsible.

[Impudent Oyster]

Oh and in my case it was gut instinct...I saw them talking to each other and something clicked, I suspected but had no proof.

 

That came when H told me he was going to a specialty store about an hours drive away on a Saturday. I had to take the kids to birthday parties and he knew that, then I remembered him saying that a female co-worker that he had begin talking about a lot had been away on vacation. I got very suspicious and felt compelled to do something I had never done, I looked in his wallet and found a piece of paper with a flight number on it.

 

Sure enough I went online and it was a flight returning from where this co-worker had gone on vacation. I realized that he was picking her up from the airport.

 

I knew her name and what town she lived in so I got a friend to watch the kids, drove to her house, parked down the street and waited. Sure enough, I saw my H's car pull up with her in it.

 

I walked right over, in retrospect I should have waited until they went inside and busted in on them, but I was beyond having that much patience.

[Gamine]

Oh and in my case it was gut instinct...I saw them talking to each other and something clicked, I suspected but had no proof.

 

That came when H told me he was going to a specialty store about an hours drive away on a Saturday. I had to take the kids to birthday parties and he knew that, then I remembered him saying that a female co-worker that he had begin talking about a lot had been away on vacation. I got very suspicious and felt compelled to do something I had never done, I looked in his wallet and found a piece of paper with a flight number on it.

 

Sure enough I went online and it was a flight returning from where this co-worker had gone on vacation. I realized that he was picking her up from the airport.

 

I knew her name and what town she lived in so I got a friend to watch the kids, drove to her house, parked down the street and waited. Sure enough, I saw my H's car pull up with her in it.

 

I walked right over, in retrospect I should have waited until they went inside and busted in on them, but I was beyond having that much patience.

 

 

IO, now you are my kind of girl!

[White Flower]

My friend knew her husband was into bondage and other "non normal" sexual acts. She did not fell comfortable in it. yet felt confident in marrying him. She gave him the go a head to find another to get his fetish going.

 

H ended up leaving her from the other lady. from what she said OW, was fatter than her. I just don't get this. If you are not sexually compatible with your spouse and you know that you can never be able to be, why marry him and THEN allow him to get sex from another person AND expect him to not think with his other head.

 

I guess she thought he would change (most of us women think this) Not sure here, but sexual compatibility should be up there with love and TOTAL commitment to ONE person.

I wholeheartedly agree. This is why I believe we should evaluate M every few years and renegotiate the contract. People grow and change and sometimes discover who they are later. ExMM would have really benefitted from such a process as many of us would. Scary for some yet very practical for others.