Difficult Dyamic with my Sister in Law

[Big Paperclip]

Does anyone here tend to find other unconfident people undermine their own confidence?

My sister in law, Vicky, is a lovely woman. I don't meet with her very often, but maybe every 6 months or so, we do. She's very bubbly by nature, but is also very timid, and whenever we have a meet-up with her and my brother in law coming up, I worry about dealing with this.

Take this Saturday just gone, for example. We met at the agreed spot, and while my other half and his brother chatted about their own stuff, Vicky and I brought up the rear, trying to hold a conversation. Vicky tends to assume I'll want to complain about stuff from the moment we meet (which usually I don't) so she tries from the outset to sympathise with me over what she guesses to be potential problems. I've responded before to this behaviour from previous acquaintances and friends, and that just sets up a dynamic where they think I want to do nothing but complain, so I try not to respond too much to Vicky when she does this.

Only trouble is, if I try to draw her into a conversation about anything else, about her stuff - how her job is going, etc. - she just says things are fine then clams up. I also feel a bit 'not right' about saying, 'this is going on and it's fantastic; that's going on and it's great' etc., as I think that it can sound like boasting to try and talk about my own good fortune. And talking about stuff that isn't to do with me or her just seems out of place, especially when we've just met up and are making shop talk until we find somewhere to settle.

After a couple of beers we tend to relax a bit, but I still keep getting suggestions from her that she'd rather not contribute to the conversation and wants me to speak instead. I can come up with anecdotes, state opinions about things and the like, but I worry this is making me look egotistical. Personally, I'd rather not talk that much; I wish she'd say more so I didn't have to cover for her.

That's another thing: she worries greatly about stating her own opinions on things; she'd much rather let others say what theirs are and just agree, to keep things sweet.

This means that, if we hang around together for a whole afternoon chatting (usually in the pub, because Vicky and her partner don't really like doing much else. We've tried talking them into visiting attractions and stuff, but that's an uphill struggle), I find I'll eventually push things too far and say something wrong. This Saturday we got onto the subject of our next door neighbours' bedroom noises, which are pretty loud, and tend to be a bit... well, strange. I made a comment regarding this that made everyone a bit uncomfortable, assuming at, as we'd all had a few drinks, we'd all be okay with it. But it backfired.

I don't get this problem with friends we can just hunker down with and have in-depth conversations about farming, or swine flu, or whether you can have capitalism without democracy, or whatever. It's just with people (mostly Vicky, at this point) that I feel I have to carry in some way. But it happens, I find, generally with people who don't want to get into 'deep' conversations or have problems expressing differing opinions.

It's not practical to try and avoid Vicky; that would just set up tensions within the family, and there are already one or two. But carrying Vicky through a meet-up like this, plus trying to genuinely enjoy the gathering myself, plus the seductive quality of alcohol for opening up and chatting, it's forming a trend in which I offend the others.

Any suggestions?

[sofijica]

Hi, I was looking for a forum like this one, the entire morning because I have a problem with my sister in law (quite similar too), and I needed some advice. But first, I would like to reply on your post. (I hope I understood it right, because english is not my native language, greetings from Europe ).

 

I know how it feels when you are the only one "pushing" the conversation, and afterward you feel kind of stupid because it seems that you revealed too much of your inner self for the sake of conversation. And the person you're talking to only gives Oh, everything is great-kind of answers and smiles (it seems so insincere).

 

When I was in a situation like this, I was mad at myself for accepting this conversation chairman role and decided to try to act same as your sister in law - be quiet, answer only to questions I'm asked about and not to babble too much.

 

But it was very exhausting because I realized that it's not me. I'm chatty and honest and I do have an opinion about a lot of things and I like to discuss and raise my voice and be loud. The only thing I've decided to change is not to talk about my intimate life too much (e.g. relationship between me and my husband) and everything else - I talk as much as I want too, and I've stopped burdening myself with stuff I shouldn't have said that, Why did I comment this, Perhaps it wasn' best idea to speak about this... I simply don't care anymore - as long as I speak truthfully and being myself, I don't care

You could try to throw infew What's your opinion on this subject-kind of questions and that's all you can do.. You cannot change her, only yourself

[TaraMaiden]

Sofijica is bang on.

The only person who seems to be anxious about this, is you.

So in a way, you're adding or contributing to the situation.

Look to your own confidence, be yourself and let her make her own decisions.

Your job is not to 'please' her or make her act in any particular way.

Your 'job' is to be a good wife to her brother.

That's it.

The way you do it, is up to you.

What she says or does - is up to her.

Live with it, not 'against' it.

[sofijica]

It's much easer to give opinion and see things clearly when you're not directly involved. But here's my situation where I need advice..

 

My husband has two sisters. One of them is a wonderful person, normal, communicative and considerate. The other one is.. how should I put it.. a biatch sometimes..She is one year older than me and she always makes this horrible comments on everything. In my language there's an expression like What's on your mind, it's on the road (meaning that one says everything he thinks, regardless of who will get hurt and whether that opinion even interests someone).

 

Anyway, it's quite difficult to illustrate her tone and how rude she is. Her comments are often very offensive. The thing is she is like that to everyone, her mother, father, sister, my husband, and especially me (she resents me something from the past). And whenever she gives mean comment to someone, noone answers her. Husband says that he doesn't want to answer her and go beneath him, and that her behavior is only showing her primitiveness and ignorance. He simple lets it in on one ear, and out on the other. And I know he is right. But I'm sick of standing shocked and quiet after her spiteful comment. I always freeze and can't think of what to say

 

It's really starting to bug me, and I want to be able to answer her something.. It's like she always has the smartest comment for everyone and she always has to have the last word and it's annoying and I don't want to put up with it anymore..

[TaraMaiden]

"Do you have a bitter taste in your mouth? because every time you open it, it's always full of sh*i*t".

 

I said that to my brother's wife.

It had the desired effect - it stopped her in her tracks.

She was astonished.

partly because somebody dared to answer her back (people like this believe that lack of an answer is intimidation, not dignity), and partly because it made her realise she was no longer going to get away with this rubbish with me.

Now if she starts banging off, I get up and tell her to button it, and walk off.

She rarely talks to me now.

And trust me, we're both a lot happier with it that way.

[sofijica]

"Do you have a bitter taste in your mouth? because every time you open it, it's always full of sh*i*t".

 

I said that to my brother's wife.

It had the desired effect - it stopped her in her tracks.

She was astonished.

 

Good for you I'm going to try out your method

 

... partly because somebody dared to answer her back (people like this believe that lack of an answer is intimidation, not dignity), and partly because it made her realise she was no longer going to get away with this rubbish with me.

Now if she starts banging off, I get up and tell her to button it, and walk off...

I could not agree with you more. Everything you wrote is true to the last sentence. Hmm.. I'll try to come up with an expression in my language equivalent to the one you've honored your sister in law with.. And I do know that it is better not to get into discussion with such shallow people who fix their own frustrations by hurting someone else. But no one should put up with this kind of harassment..

[2sure]

Sometimes when conversation is difficult its not because anything is wrong with either person...its just that they have nothing substantial in common. And thats fine. It gets uncomfortable only when you are with this person for an extended period of time.

 

Small talk, or what I think of as the art of saying nothing at all is sadly, a large part of my life sometimes several evenings a week. But its usually just for a few hours as in dinner or some kind of function where you are mingling more quickly. These are my H's obligations and I'm kind of ...just there. Its important that I keep smiling and chatting and equally important that I do so while saying nothing at all. Yep, you heard me.

 

Eventually I will poke myself in my eyes with a fork. At times I have just said the hell with it and turned to the person next to me at dinner and actually tried to have a real conversation. No go, because everyone else is doing the same thing.

 

Guess I have no advice, but thank you for having me.

[TaraMaiden]

My partner used to be very negative.

he used to focus always on stuff that brought him down.

After a while, I noticed I was letting his attitude bring me down too.

So I actually interrupt him now, and point out what he's doing, or I change the subject completely (that ususally tells him too!) and i've taken to asking him to say a positive thing, after every negative.

Just to balance his perception......

 

It seems to work - most of the time.

but it's a hard habit to break, if you've been doing it all your life!

 

it's conditioning, and some people just don't realise what they're like, or what they're doing.....

[aznprincess]

Yes, do not avoid her. Give it time, try and figure out what she likes to do, her hobby, her interests etc. than take it from there. The more that you tell yourself that you have nothing in common, the more you are building a wall between you too... yes, why not trying bringing her out to drink with the girls.. that could do a jump start.

[Onecontent]

Hi Big Paperclip.

 

Only trouble is, if I try to draw her into a conversation about anything else, about her stuff - how her job is going, etc. - she just says things are fine then clams up. I also feel a bit 'not right' about saying, 'this is going on and it's fantastic; that's going on and it's great' etc., as I think that it can sound like boasting to try and talk about my own good fortune. And talking about stuff that isn't to do with me or her just seems out of place, especially when we've just met up and are making shop talk until we find somewhere to settle.

After a couple of beers we tend to relax a bit, but I still keep getting suggestions from her that she'd rather not contribute to the conversation and wants me to speak instead. I can come up with anecdotes, state opinions about things and the like, but I worry this is making me look egotistical. Personally, I'd rather not talk that much; I wish she'd say more so I didn't have to cover for her.

That's another thing: she worries greatly about stating her own opinions on things; she'd much rather let others say what theirs are and just agree, to keep things sweet.

This means that, if we hang around together for a whole afternoon chatting (usually in the pub, because Vicky and her partner don't really like doing much else. We've tried talking them into visiting attractions and stuff, but that's an uphill struggle), I find I'll eventually push things too far and say something wrong.

 

Do you think it possible that your sister-in-law does not like you and therefore does not wish to discuss the details of her life with you? Or at the very least has so little in common with you that she cannot figure out how to relate what is important in her life to someone like you?

 

My brother and I have this problem with our sister-in-law. She loves our brother, is a good mother to her children, and is narrow minded and staid in her ways. We cannot figure out how to relate to this woman so we say as little to her as possible. She is or was frustrated that we have so little to say to her.

 

And talking about stuff that isn't to do with me or her just seems out of place, especially when we've just met up and are making shop talk until we find somewhere to settle.

 

 

I don't get this problem with friends we can just hunker down with and have in-depth conversations about farming, or swine flu, or whether you can have capitalism without democracy, or whatever. It's just with people (mostly Vicky, at this point) that I feel I have to carry in some way. But it happens, I find, generally with people who don't want to get into 'deep' conversations or have problems expressing differing opinions.

 

I am not quite clear why you could not discuss current events with Vicky. Do you think it possible that you might come off as unpleasantly opinionated? Or perhaps what feels like stimulating conversation to you may feel like energy draining debate or purposeless argument to her?

 

Have you ever spoken in agreement with her dreams and visions? Is it possible that you may have torpedoed a dream without even realizing it’s significance? Could your life in some way be a repudiation of what she holds dear? This is the problem brother and I have with our sister-in-law. She believes marriage and motherhood are the two most important things in her life. Brother and I are neither married nor parents and are not actively pursuing either. Our lives are a repudiation of what is sacred to her. And it has taken me years to realize that I have made comments that have offended her without meaning to.

 

I wish I had a suggestion as to what could be a mutually interesting topic that you could agree with her on. Do you think she would be willing to volunteer with you for some charitable purpose?