jj33 Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 I agree WWIU, too bad those deaf ears dont come with a less defensive attitude. Link to post Share on other sites
jennie-jennie Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 The thing is that when an OW is not ready to end the relationship, she has to cope within the relationship, and this she probably will need support in doing. That kind of support is rare on this board. The support that is given here is mainly for ending the relationship and when you are not there that does not help you. Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 Honestly, MOST of OW who are posting are alot closer to ending it then they realize. They post and many people here help them open their eyes, see things from a different point of view.. If an OW is hurt all the time, feeling depressed, anxious and upset, NOONE is going to encourage her to keep on sticking pins in her eyes..Most will suggest that maybe it's time to re-think things and considering taking a step back, detach and seek some counselling, or even end it. Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 So if your MM is continually lying to you, and you're crying your eyes out daily, losing weight, self esteem is shot to crap - you want OW or anyone else to help give you tips to stay in the affair?? Give you pointers on how to accept table scraps, being second fiddle, losing out on life for some MM who says he's leaving, but really has no intention of doing so? Link to post Share on other sites
bentnotbroken Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 She's not listening, head too deep in the sand. Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 That kind of support is rare on this board. There are tons and tons of other forums on the internet to choose from if one doesn't like it here and feels they aren't getting the right type of support. Link to post Share on other sites
jennie-jennie Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 There are tons and tons of other forums on the internet to choose from if one doesn't like it here and feels they aren't getting the right type of support. I know this and am a member of other much more supportive boards. I just feel sorry for those who come here posting their concerns and don't know that most of the people posting here are BSs. Link to post Share on other sites
ladydesigner Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 I know this and am a member of other much more supportive boards. I just feel sorry for those who come here posting their concerns and don't know that most of the people posting here are BSs. Sometimes the BSs have some great advice on this board but you are right often times when the OW comes looking for support on here she does not get it due to there being so many BSs on this board. I mean this is the OW forum;) Link to post Share on other sites
Gamine Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 I know this and am a member of other much more supportive boards. I just feel sorry for those who come here posting their concerns and don't know that most of the people posting here are BSs. JJ, for whatever your personal reasons were you remained with a man for 25 years where there was cheating and recommitment on both sides back and forth and you two never married. You have a life of your own choosing, yes. And you indicate that you didn't need to marry because you never wanted 'obligation' to exist between you. But you may really need to look deep down inside of yourself and ask why it is you have put yourself out in the cold in relationships. Not having the feelings complete enough to marry can be almost like settling... and here it seems you are doing it all over again. What is going on, here? On one hand you don't believe in commitment because it is obligation. On the other hand you want him to leave his marriage for you which implies, by construct, that you do believe in this... and want it desperately. If your heart is so full of love and longing why not find someone who can give you .. and who you can give... everything your hearts desire? Link to post Share on other sites
jennie-jennie Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 Gamine, I will answer you with a quote from the book mentioned above: "All unmarried mistresses have one attribute in common: they are strong and independent, because they have to be. Otherwise, they could just get married. Getting a man is not difficult but finding the right man, with the right chemistry, is. They are brave enough to seize happiness when it's there and to live their lives alone instead of taking second best." Link to post Share on other sites
jj33 Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 Jenni that is SO not true. Many many of hte OWs that post on this board are not strong and that is why some of them find themselves in these situations. You may be strong but you are making sweeping and inaccruate generalizations. Link to post Share on other sites
Owl Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 Gamine, I will answer you with a quote from the book mentioned above: "All unmarried mistresses have one attribute in common: they are strong and independent, because they have to be. Otherwise, they could just get married. Getting a man is not difficult but finding the right man, with the right chemistry, is. They are brave enough to seize happiness when it's there and to live their lives alone instead of taking second best." This would apply to someone who WANTS to be a mistress. This doesn't make sense when you take into account women (or men) who spend years HOPING and praying for the MM/MW to leave their spouse when that person clearly is set on cake-eating. We see this scenario very, very commonly on this site. The people who spend all this time waiting aren't doing so out of strength...they're typically doing so out of desperate hope that the situation will change. They're not "forging ahead" with a solution...they're biding their time WAITING and HOPING for the MM/MW to do something about the situation. Some, perhaps, do work strongly towards a goal (GEL and Owoman come to mind)...but they're the exception, not the rule. Link to post Share on other sites
fooled once Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 ugh -- I am so sick of the "you don't know what we feel and you all are so unsupportive" crap from those that don't like what is being said to them. JJ - do we need to give our credentials to you before we post??? Like others said, if this board isn't supportive enough for you, there are plenty of others out there that will cheer you on and give you props for imagining that you are the 2nd wife of a man who has a wife he isn't leaving; and it isn't because of the kids. Why leave when you will be ready and willing whenever he shows up. Talk about a lack of pride, respect or self worth. AR -- oh honey. You know what I am about to say is from the heart. YOU - my friend - you are such a special lady. BUT (and you knew that was coming)...... I hate to see you settling and yes, I firmly believe you are. I see you sitting around and waiting for him - when or if he returns for a quick visit. Hon - he picked his wife. HE. PICKED. HER. I know you waffled so much on spending time with him. I wish, wish, wish you had decided to stay NC. I think this time with him has given you false hope for a future. I think he took complete advantage of you in this regard. HE is going home to his wife and kids. HE is going home to his family. He will be doing homework with her/the kids. They will pack up and go on a picnic in the park. They will go to the movies. They will go buy new clothes together or the kids. They will decide what to have for dinner. They will sit down and watch a TV program together. They will help each other with house project; laundry, changing a light bulb. They will grow in their feelings for each other. They will discuss vacations. They will discuss saving towards a new TV, a new couch. They will carry on with their lives - together. Sure, you will pass through his mind. But, it is his wife's hand he will grab while walking. It is her back he will rub after a hard day. It is her lips he will kiss good morning, during the day, at night. It is her he will snuggle down on the couch with. Yes, you touched him. But not in a big enough way for him to decide you are the person he wants to spend his eternity with. He went without seeing his kids for 8 months. He didn't see his kids for longer than many non-custoidal parents. Divorce IS an option. But it obviously isn't an OPTION for him. He is choosing to not make it an option. He has chosen to keep his marriage. he has chosen to keep his family. I don't say any of this to hurt you. I say this to show you that as romantic and wonderful your limited time with him was --- it was just that - a fantasty. My biggest fear is you will now sit and wait. You will allow life to pass you by on a "maybe one day". You will not "be there" mentally for your kids. You will be checked out for them; you will be consumed by your memories of your time together, wondering what he is doing, wondering what he is thinking, checking the phone to make sure it is working, checking email cosntantly -- checking, checking, checking, waiting, waiting, waiting -- for just a crumb of his time. For just a quick phone call, a few sentences of an email. SOMETHING to give you hope. And he may throw you that -- when he has time. When he isn't with the kids, when he isn't with his wife, when he can sneak away. Or he may forget to for a few days and you will be waiting, waiting, waiting - checking, checking, checking. Life will be passing you by. Your kids will be grown and you will still be sitting and waiting. AR *hug* YOU DESERVE BETTER. You deserve to find love and happiness with someone who can make you the FOCUS, not the after thought. You deserve to find love and happiness with someone who will make you a priority. Someone who will fill your days and nights with laughter, love and sizzle. You deserve to find love and happiness with someone who will show you - by actions - that he wants to grow old with you; he wants to shelter you, he wants to talk to you, he wants to listen to you. You deserve better. I wish I could make you see that. We are all only given 1 life. ONE life. We don't get do-overs. Life is very short. It really is. Do you want to spend your life waiting? Checking? Waiting? I know you love him. But sometimes, that love isn't a life time of love. You know the saying about friends who come into our life or a reason, a season or a lifetime? This can be applied to lovers too. I don't think he is your lifetime. He was your season. And until you truly believe that, you will be standing still. You won't be growing. You will become stale, angry, bitter, emotionless. Do not let that happen to you. IF it was meant to be, it will be. Since he went home to his family, in my heart I truly belive it wasn't meant to be. And until YOU believe that ..... *hug* p.s. I do agree with GEL and jj33. Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 Fooled, that was an awesome, supportive and caring post. You put into words what so many here think.. Link to post Share on other sites
bentnotbroken Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 :bunny::bunny::bunny:Fooled, nicely done. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Aquarius Rising Posted August 15, 2009 Author Share Posted August 15, 2009 Fooled Once, I don't know how to respond to this ..... I haven't been able to stop crying since I read it .... I've decided that this message warrants a private message response .... AR ((Hugs)) Link to post Share on other sites
fooled once Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 AR *hug* I hope you know my post was meant with the best of intentions. I care about you and hate to see you 'waiting' for something that may never, ever happen. Love him, but release him. Release his hold on you so that YOU can find that someone to walk in the park with, go to the movies with, snuggle on the couch with. Someone who call fill all your needs at any time. Someone who is there for you; unconditionally and with YOUR best interest in mind. IF he really loved you - he would let you go to find that love. IF he really cared about you, he would want you to be happy and living life. Instead, he is selfishly letting you hang onto a dream - a fantasy - so that he can know you will be there should he ever return. That is completely unfair to you. Link to post Share on other sites
jennie-jennie Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 AR *hug* I hope you know my post was meant with the best of intentions. I care about you and hate to see you 'waiting' for something that may never, ever happen. Love him, but release him. Release his hold on you so that YOU can find that someone to walk in the park with, go to the movies with, snuggle on the couch with. Someone who call fill all your needs at any time. Someone who is there for you; unconditionally and with YOUR best interest in mind. IF he really loved you - he would let you go to find that love. IF he really cared about you, he would want you to be happy and living life. Instead, he is selfishly letting you hang onto a dream - a fantasy - so that he can know you will be there should he ever return. That is completely unfair to you. I just don't agree with this "really loved you" stuff. Love for a partner is selfish. It is not altruistic. We do not love a partner like we love a child. We want something back, we need something from the other person, we have a desire for the other person. Our emotions are too strong to just act accordingly to what would be best for the other person. At the same time an MP can be pulled back towards marriage because of a sense of duty and responsibility. This does not mean that he/she does not love you. It means he/she is being pulled in two directions. I would rather say that the fact that a MM is having a long term EMR although he does not want to break up his marriage, shows how strong his emotions for the OW are, shows how much he loves you, so much that he can not stop himself. Link to post Share on other sites
bentnotbroken Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 I just don't agree with this "really loved you" stuff. Love for a partner is selfish. It is not altruistic. We do not love a partner like we love a child. We want something back, we need something from the other person, we have a desire for the other person. Our emotions are too strong to just act accordingly to what would be best for the other person. At the same time an MP can be pulled back towards marriage because of a sense of duty and responsibility. This does not mean that he/she does not love you. It means he/she is being pulled in two directions. I would rather say that the fact that a MM is having a long term EMR although he does not want to break up his marriage, shows how strong his emotions for the OW are, shows how much he loves you, so much that he can not stop himself. Just because you don't believe that, doesn't make it so. It is as you said, your belief. Some people do get to the level where love isn't always passionate. It gets to the level of deep and abiding commitment where you would rather die than hurt the one you love. The emotions of the coward who can't make a commitment to either woman, just shows he loves himself more than he does either woman. And on that point you are very right....it is selfish. To assume that our emotions are so strong that we can't stop ourselves from hurting others is naive at best and delusional at the worst. If we couldn't control our emotions because they are so strong, don't you think the rates of murder after d-days would be astronomical? Adults should be able to behave in mature ways. To only give in the overwhelming emotion of love is a cop out if you don't give into all those other overwhelming emotions that arise. You know anger, pity, sorrow, fear. If you can't control your emotions, when you are pissed at some one, why not act on it over and over again? When you pity someone(maybe the bs) why not act out of pity, over and over again? The point is you control what you want to control and to say you can't is bullcrap that only makes someone feel better about destructive actions that are labeled love. Link to post Share on other sites
jennie-jennie Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 Bnb, you seem to be as passionate with anger, resentment and violent revenge as I am with love. The difference is that your negative emotions are directed directly at someone, wheras with love which is a positive emotion it unfortunately might have a side effect of hurting someone else. You can go to prison for acting out too much of negative emotions, you never go to prison for loving someone. Apparently there is a difference. Link to post Share on other sites
dn121 Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 fooled once - I know your post wasn't specifically for me, but is certainly hit a nerve. I am in tears as well. Thank you for saying what I needed to hear, in a caring supportive way. Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 Our emotions are too strong to just act accordingly to what would be best for the other person. In an affair setting, I agree with you. Because it's based just on feelings, lust, desire, attraction, fantasy..The beginnings of 'something' that cannot grow or go anywhere since one (or sometimes both) people are married. BNB isn't angry, nor bitter. She's respectful yet harsh, don't write her words off because you don't like how it's written out. Link to post Share on other sites
jennie-jennie Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 BNB isn't angry, nor bitter. She's respectful yet harsh, don't write her words off because you don't like how it's written out. LOL I know what "respectful yet harsh" looks like, and bnb doesn't fit that description. You know what, if the BS on this site are a typical example of what happens to you when you get married, I am going to run as far away as I can from marriage. Link to post Share on other sites
fooled once Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 Geez enough Jennie There are plenty of other OW on here who are in need of the words of us - many who aren't in your words bitter angry bs's. STOP already. Go flaunt your cheating relationship some place else. Many of the OW here are trying to get out of those relationships or come to terms with always being the other woman. They don't need 'false' hope. AR is in need of support and help to let go of something that won't ever be (if you thought to go read her previous posts, you too would see this is a fantasy she has just gone through). So back off on the other posters. If you have an issue and want to call names, PM them or something. dn - I am glad you found some help in my words. I am so sorry you are hurting. Link to post Share on other sites
jennie-jennie Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 I have read every post of AR that she has ever posted. I read her posts when she was sending the email to her MM and deciding to go NC. I always respected her wish whether it was to leave or stay with MM. That is the difference between me and the BS. You have already decided there is only one solution: NC and ending the EMR. The BS have an agenda of their own: to end EMRs. Their aim is not to support the OW where she is at. For your information I struggle every day whether to remain in this relationship or not. I too am struggling with being the OW. Link to post Share on other sites
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