jennie-jennie Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 Of course no OW is in need of false hope, but false despair is not useful either. It is painful enough being the OW, without posters putting their own fantasies out there, like "if he really loved you". Fooled once, you just can't stand having someone on this board who sees through you, can you? Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 Fooled once, you just can't stand having someone on this board who sees through you, can you? This is completely out of line JJ. I don't know why you've taking a disliking to fooled, but she is a wonderful and kind poster, she truly is giving heartfelt advice. Link to post Share on other sites
bentnotbroken Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 Bnb, you seem to be as passionate with anger, resentment and violent revenge as I am with love. The difference is that your negative emotions are directed directly at someone, wheras with love which is a positive emotion it unfortunately might have a side effect of hurting someone else. You can go to prison for acting out too much of negative emotions, you never go to prison for loving someone. Apparently there is a difference. :laugh::laugh:Who am I angry at? Who do I resent? Violent, yes that is part of my personality that has been worked on extensively for the last couple of years, but revenge? Against who, for what?:laugh:Your rationale about how negative emotions are directed is cute, but untrue. Negative thoughts, feelings, emotions...whatever you want to call them, can b e a catalyst for change. It can get you out of an environment(poor, economically depressed) that you are in. Negative emotions can spur you to change aspects of yourself that you don't like(for me that would be my out of control ways). Anger can lead to motivation to strive for all the things that one believes they are incapable of achieving. Anger at being told no. Anger at being told you aren't good enough. Anger at having one's ambitions questioned and ridiculed. Passion for life and love aren't exclusive to those who chose to find anyway they can at any one's expense. I would wager that the majority of everyone here has a passion for something, and most have a passion to love and be loved. And just so you know, there are people in prison for a lot of things, including love. At least their version of it. I don't foresee me changing the way I say things(never say never with God:)), but take what you can use and leave the rest. But by no means assume that by calling me names will I slink away into the sunset having been duly chastised by someone who doesn't mind hurting anyone in their way. NOT my style;) Link to post Share on other sites
tami-chan Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 This is completely out of line JJ. I don't know why you've taking a disliking to fooled, but she is a wonderful and kind poster, she truly is giving heartfelt advice. Well, I think it was out of line to tell her to go somewhere else. Jennie-Jennie presents a different perspective and should be allowed without having to "hear" people tell her to stop or go away. You know as well as I do that there are quite a number of BSs whose verbiage are out of line and they are never ask to "to go somewhere else" no matter how rude,disgusting or unhelpful the post was/is. So people can either respond to the points Jennie-Jennie is making or not, it's that simple. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Aquarius Rising Posted August 16, 2009 Author Share Posted August 16, 2009 AR *hug* IF he really loved you - he would let you go to find that love. IF he really cared about you, he would want you to be happy and living life. Instead, he is selfishly letting you hang onto a dream - a fantasy - so that he can know you will be there should he ever return. That is completely unfair to you. I agree with you FO, and my MM has said many times that what he wants most for me is happiness, but then his actions contradict that by spending the last month in my bed alongside of ME. I do believe that he is confused and it is not as black and white as 'if I truly loved you I would let you go'. He is frightened of letting me go because he knows that he may never find this kind of connection with anyone ever again, which is my fear too. But ..... in his defense .... he has suggested that we need to find an end to this relationship so that we can truly do the soul-searching required to find out if we want to be together... we first have to let go. I (as many of you have come to learn) STRUGGLE with that .... Bigtime! Another argument might be that if I truly loved him I would let him go so that he can live his life with his children and not have to even contemplate living in another country from them. These are the issues we both have continually struggled with. I know that this time away from me spent with his W and children is going to be reveal much about where our relationship fits in the bigger picture of his life... Meantime, I am trying to get on with life as best I can .... and if I get an offer for a date ... then I think I'll be taking it!!..... and I told MM that before he left. MM has promised to contact me while he is away ..... so far 'nothing' .... but I know that is probably a good thing. Further to that ....... can I just say ...... that I first joined this forum because I was struggling and I am still struggling, and yes, I need help to figure this out .... I've never been sure of anything in this relationship with MM. The help & support of this forum .... the objectivity and the empathy .... has been at times ..... life-sustaining. Enormous thanks to you FO ........ and to all. AR (hug) Link to post Share on other sites
fooled once Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 Of course no OW is in need of false hope, but false despair is not useful either. It is painful enough being the OW, without posters putting their own fantasies out there, like "if he really loved you". Fooled once, you just can't stand having someone on this board who sees through you, can you? See's through what exactly? Don't know how many times I have to tell you - I am not a Betrayed Spouse. Never have been. Except for the time I was an OW, all my men have chosen only ME to be with. As an fOW, I GET what AR is going through. I spent 2 years dealing with the wondering, the waiting, the checking email, the waiting for the phone to ring, waiting for 5 minutes with him, waiting, waiting, waiting.... So my support to her it to STOP doing it. To refocus all that energy on HER and on finding a man who only wants HER. Link to post Share on other sites
jennie-jennie Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 See's through what exactly? Don't know how many times I have to tell you - I am not a Betrayed Spouse. Never have been. Except for the time I was an OW, all my men have chosen only ME to be with. As an fOW, I GET what AR is going through. I spent 2 years dealing with the wondering, the waiting, the checking email, the waiting for the phone to ring, waiting for 5 minutes with him, waiting, waiting, waiting.... So my support to her it to STOP doing it. To refocus all that energy on HER and on finding a man who only wants HER. OK, my mistake then, I thought you were a BS. So what does "fooled once" in your name mean then? I still stand by what I said about "if he really loved you". Whether you were a BS or an OW, does not change the fact that we have different opinions on this matter. I am also very weary of persuading OW to break up their relationship before they are truly ready to do so. It will only harm them if they initiate a breakup and then take it back. The MM will learn not to listen to this kind of words then. For this reason I do not set ultimatums to my MM. I know how I am. I stay with a man until the day I leave, and that day I don't look back. That day I know. May I ask, are you married today? Link to post Share on other sites
fooled once Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 I am extremely happily married and have been for 11.5 years. I am married to a good, honest, trusthworthy man who has my heart in his hands, and his in mine. We both were married before and we both know what we want in a spouse, in a life and in our future. I was "fooled once" when I believed the lying lips of a married man who told me I was his everything, I was his heart, his soul. A man who told me he never experienced love like what he had A man who fed me bull crap for 2 years before I finally had enough. A man who broke my heart too many times to count. A man who even after I moved on kept calling me, promising me a life with him --- as he was literally driving across country with his wife. Once he found out I was engaged to be married, he continued to try to "win me" back. When my H and I returned from our honeymoon to find yet another email from him, my H wrote him back and told him to back off, leave me alone and that HE was my husband. I only heard from him once a few years later and I told him I was happy and I wanted him to leave me alone -- or else I would tell his wife. Never heard from him again. So I have been there - I have been incredibly HURT and BROKEN by a liar. I express myself to those OW who truly are struggling with being second (and not a 2nd wife like you claim to be) who want more and honestly - how do you expect a man to give more to his mistress UNLESS he leaves his wife? And why should ANY woman put up with being 2nd in a man's life??? Explain that one to me. WHY? AR *hug* I know you are hurting and wanting to believe that there is more there than there is. His silence shows me how much you are on his mind <that is sarcastic>. A man who loves a woman will move MOUNTAINS to be with her. A Tami - my response to Jennie was due to her constant crying about how no one but OW should be allowed to respond and how unsupportive people are on this board (basically, all those that disagree with her). She is constantly crying foul all the time and belittling those that disagree with her. Link to post Share on other sites
tami-chan Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 A Tami - my response to Jennie was due to her constant crying about how no one but OW should be allowed to respond and how unsupportive people are on this board (basically, all those that disagree with her). She is constantly crying foul all the time and belittling those that disagree with her. So what...she can do that, can't she? I do not think she has belittled anyone-then again, perspective is important. I think anytime a BS or reformed AP is confronted with an AP who is unapologetic and not ready to own up to "wrong doing", attacks begin. I have experienced it personally. Cest la vie! <shrug> I think what she sees is that there are OWs who do not want to break up from their MMs yet and specifically come here for support, why would a BS post on that thread if they are not going to "support" the OW? For example if the thread starts with this: "I am an OW and need help on how to keep my MM happy, pointers anyone?" So unless a BS or a reformed AP has some pointers, why would they respond to a thread like that? Personally, I don't care who responds. But I think I understand where the frustration is coming from. Link to post Share on other sites
jennie-jennie Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 Fooled once, I understand that your MM was a liar, that does not mean that all MM are liars. I understand that you were broken and hurt. The hurt was what made me think you were a BS. I understand your solution was good for you, that does not mean that your solution is the best solution for all OW. My younger sister once had an affair with a MM. I talked to her about it after the breakup. He was the one who broke up, although he did not have the guts to tell her directly. Instead he said he was going to fight in Iraq, he is an officer in the army. After a long time she finally figured out the truth. Still she told me this was the most loving relationship she had ever had, MM had been so loving and caring for her. She treasured her memories from their time together. I thought she was nuts. How could she believe a man who had proved himself to be a liar? I thought she was fooling herself, believing what she wanted to believe. Now when I have been an OW myself for several years and learnt so much more about the dynamics of an EMR, about how MM think and the dilemma they have, I understand that what she was saying was true. I regard her highly for being able to distinguish between the honest love they had and his lies at the end. She did not let the bitter end cloud her judgement of her MM's ability to love her and the value of their relationship. I understand that your lover, fooled once, might be a liar through and through. You are a much better judge of that than I, since you have been his OW. PS The reason I reacted to Jasminetea and asked if she was an OW, was because she changed my words from "empowering" to "excusing myself", and from "degrading" to "shaming myself". I could see no support in that. Link to post Share on other sites
jennie-jennie Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 Before anyone points out that all MM ARE liars, I am talking in relation to the OW. My MM makes a point of telling me the truth, even if it hurts, because he needs to have someone he can be completely honest with. His words. He is naked with me in more than one way. Tami, "reformed AP", I love that term! Link to post Share on other sites
fooled once Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 hat does not mean that all MM are liars Yes they are; unless they have told their wives they are cheating on them. Link to post Share on other sites
jennie-jennie Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 Yes they are; unless they have told their wives they are cheating on them. You missed my last post. Link to post Share on other sites
bentnotbroken Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 Yes they are; unless they have told their wives they are cheating on them. And that's the naked truth:rolleyes: Link to post Share on other sites
jennie-jennie Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 Interestingly enough, I have sometimes chosen to lie to my ex to protect him from being hurt. He was so jealous of MM, I saw no point in rubbing the details in. Sometimes lies are beneficial for protecting others. Does this mean I am a liar, that I lie to MM? No, the person closest to my heart hears only the truth. It used to be my ex, now it is MM. Link to post Share on other sites
bentnotbroken Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 Interestingly enough, I have sometimes chosen to lie to my ex to protect him from being hurt. He was so jealous of MM, I saw no point in rubbing the details in. Sometimes lies are beneficial for protecting others. Does this mean I am a liar, that I lie to MM? No, the person closest to my heart hears only the truth. It used to be my ex, now it is MM. Um hmm. Lying to protect someone while protecting yourself, interesting twist. Link to post Share on other sites
GreenEyedLady Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 So, Gel, you ARE married. Interesting, when I told my MM of your post and your history he goes "she must be married now". Yes I am married. My MM married me. GEL Link to post Share on other sites
GreenEyedLady Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 Is getting her needs met greater than her self respect or self love of her own being. Since when did being a side piece be cool in society. Does that make what this man is doing to her okay in her eyes. just because she's getting her needs met? WTF is this what female empowerment means? Hmmm for all you women that come on here and preach about self love and empowerment. There is something seriously wrong when you condone a woman who lusts after a man who truly isnt hers. And the sad part is...... people are okay with it. I'm never getting married. if this social board is a small microcosm of what kind of mentalities and ideologies I have to work with today. Look, I'm not here to decide what's best for others. I'm trying to help others draw their own conclusions and make good choices for them. I'm trying to share what I have learned, what I've observed to help other's make the best choice they can. When someone is obviously hurt more than happy, falling into depression etc., then I think that the only choice is to get out. No matter the status of their partner. Marriage isn't for everyone. I thought I would never remarry. And look at me. I'm sorry that you're so dismayed about the state of relationships. The best thing you can do though is start with yourself. Don't worry about what others are doing, worry about what you're doing. In the end, that's what matters. Practice what you preach, you know? GEL Link to post Share on other sites
GreenEyedLady Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 Yes I am married. My MM married me. GEL On second thought, maybe you should let your MM know that little tidbit... Link to post Share on other sites
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