Narcissists

[deux ex machina]

This is very unusual for someone with NPD to apologize or own up to anything, regardless if it's just lip service.

Break up is painful, no matter what kind. Right afterwards, you wish you'd never gotten involved in the first place. But on the otherhand, how else will you be able to figure out what you really want and need in a partner? And, when you feel a little stronger, remember the good times. There are always good times, which makes most relationships worthwhile to experience, even for a short time.

 

True enough. Maybe I'll feel better when I get some perspective. I'm an optimistic person, I'm sure I'll be fine, just want to speed it up.

 

Sadly enough, he b.s.'d me so, it feels like the good times have been tainted.

 

Since discovery day of his infidelities, it's been 2 3/4 years. It took 6 months after D-day to get rid of 99% of the "him" related issues and another 6 months to completely shake him out of my system. It's taken another year to get rid of the residual trust issues but not all those trust issues can be put into my ex-Hs lap.

 

Thanks for answering. I think I'll go to therapy to speed this train home. Lol. He doesn't deserve my...confusion. Tears, too.

 

 

Thanks, I feel wonderful. Met a wonderful man around Christmas last year and we've been engaged since Feb, getting married next summer.

 

Congrats to you! You totally deserve it.

[moo]

A narcissist probably won't go to therapy except if that is a condition in order to keep them out of jail. I think narcissits see love differently than other people. They are not giving..only if giving can result in something they can get for themselves. I don't know how the child factor fits in, as narcissists do raise children. However, even among narcissists, there may be different degrees. I expect some cannot raise their children because the relationship would be too dysfunctional.

[deux ex machina]

A narcissist will be completely wrapped up in his/herself. They don't care about how they go about ending the relationship. They may suddenly cut somone off completely. It's all about them. They don't care about the pain the ex partner is experiencing. They may not even break the relationship. They may just cheat and string the partner along, with NO GUILT or REMORSE.

 

I'm pretty certain that is what was happening at the end. At least chatting others up, definite. Didn't mind terribly whether I knew it or not, since I made no secret I was putting down boundaries.

 

But when I gave him to odd "maybe we CAN work it out" talk near to the end, he'd drop the newer interests, come on strong to me...until he had me again and the dust settled...then go off into his same old habits of indifference.

 

Once I recognized the pattern, I knew it had to end.

 

Once he knew I had his number, he knew I would end it, because I told him so.

 

Which contributed to the flameout.

 

A narcissist will twist things around if they are at fault to make the partner feel that he or she is the one at fault.

 

It didn't work on me at the end. Thus his nice little ragefest of an exclamation point at the end.

 

Moo - thank you for insight.

[deux ex machina]

A narcissist probably won't go to therapy except if that is a condition in order to keep them out of jail. I think narcissits see love differently than other people. They are not giving..only if giving can result in something they can get for themselves. I don't know how the child factor fits in, as narcissists do raise children. However, even among narcissists, there may be different degrees. I expect some cannot raise their children because the relationship would be too dysfunctional.

 

He was diagnosed as a narcissist. I wonder "how much" of one he was, though.

 

The whole soul sucking thing is so creepy, though. I really feel the need to figure it out...maybe one day I will.

 

Honestly, just being *around* him was enough to feel drained. I'll have to ask a therapist about it.

 

I think I feel the need to figure it out, because I NEVER want to experience it again, plus I suppose one could say I have a crisis of confidence.

 

This too will pass...

[moo]

Hi. You are welcome. Listen...okay, let me tell you this...yes, it's good to process what happened, but up to a point. When people have very negative personalities, esp. those who have been diagnosed, you can try to figure them out until the cows come home...believe me you won't.

 

What you can do is take a deep look at things he did and what you allowed him to do...in other words, what you put up with. You can process that so when these or similar things come up again in your life when dealing with someone, you know they are red flags. You can also process how to deal with what happened so you can be more effective to yourself if heartbreak comes around again. But don't waste your time trying to figure him out. Believe me, I know, it's frustrating, time consuming and in the end, you need to devote that time to making yourself strong instead. Whether he is a low level narcissist or not, you have to take care of you. I do find it surprising that he was actually diagnosed as having NPD. He sounds more like someone with traits and not the full blow disease...but then again, they are the doctors, not me.

[Tony T]

Tony, thank you so much.

 

I honestly feel like this person sucked out my soul, and the mystery to me is how in the hell did he do it?

 

If there's any insight on that, I'm all ears.

 

 

 

I'm going to read that link right now. Thanks again.

 

One thing narcissists do is lie through their butts about so many things. They will definitely cheat on you if given the opportunity. But they lie about everything. And you can also bet they will do the absolute MINIMUM of giving back in order to get whatever they can. Relationships with narcissists are usually 98 percent giving to them and 2 percent getting back...IF YOU'RE LUCKY!!! If confronted, they will cite whatever they did for you in the recent past and try to make you feel guilty for ever bringing it up. They are worthless turds.

[deux ex machina]

Hi. You are welcome. Listen...okay, let me tell you this...yes, it's good to process what happened, but up to a point. When people have very negative personalities, esp. those who have been diagnosed, you can try to figure them out until the cows come home...believe me you won't.

 

I recognize that I still credit him with feelings he does not have. Just looking at my own posts in this thread, I see that I still am.

 

Empathy is such a part of being human - and no, he did not have it. At all. He is a void...when our relationship hit the turning point, I said that to him, I thought he was a "VOID" - and his reaction to that was telling...let me tell ya...

 

These posts I've written here - to the casual observer, I know what it looks like - like I'm listing traits of someone who is pretty normal, albeit odd -

 

it is because I am too bloody drained to get into specifics right now. He has done so many things to me and everyone else that are just off-the-wall bizarre...

 

The only explanation is, he does not care about anyone. At all. Trying to wrap my mind around that...it doesn't make sense, so I do, yes I am guilty of crediting him with empathy, when it is clear - absolutely clear - when looking at it OBJECTIVELY - that he cared for no one. I just don't get it. I am bewildered here.

 

...the whole relationship was one big WTF?

 

He leaves a whirlwind of confusion, chaos, and people thinking he is uber-creepy, in his wake.

 

It is difficult to find the words.

 

What you can do is take a deep look at things he did and what you allowed him to do...in other words, what you put up with. You can process that so when these or similar things come up again in your life when dealing with someone, you know they are red flags. You can also process how to deal with what happened so you can be more effective to yourself if heartbreak comes around again.

 

Such good, proactive advice. Thanks!

 

Yes, I let him get away with so much. Mostly because I was so bewildered by his behavior that I would explain it away. Lol.

 

I, stupidly, let him know I loved him unconditionally, basically. That's when the fun really started! I will never do do this again.

 

But don't waste your time trying to figure him out. Believe me, I know, it's frustrating, time consuming and in the end, you need to devote that time to making yourself strong instead. Whether he is a low level narcissist or not, you have to take care of you. I do find it surprising that he was actually diagnosed as having NPD. He sounds more like someone with traits and not the full blow disease...but then again, they are the doctors, not me.

 

He is smart enough to act okay enough of the time that he came off as okay, until one got close to him, that is.

[deux ex machina]

They will initially resist a break up because their supply of goodies is being cut off.

 

He resisted lots at first. And he followed the pattern that you have described to a t. He was very seductive. That worked at first, but as I got to know him, I started to see through him - and for better or for worse, I am a very sincere person, and let him know what I was seeing (which was an void that would fill up on even garbage if he could get anything out of it - just - nothing there, it scared me and I tried to "fill him in", explain it away at the same time. I am ashamed now, seeing as I did not open my eyes to this when I well should've, however empathy and compassion are such a part of who I am. Crazy...).

 

Right. So, he would try the seductive act to try to bring me back into the fold when he felt me slipping through his fingers, and at the end it wouldn't work, I saw through him - and to be honest, it felt a bit insulting to me. And oh my - his reaction to that was sadly predictable, and just as you posted.

 

Once they see you mean business, they will go away and you'll never hear from them again because they are busy hunting another sucker who will supply them with their wants.

 

*ding! ding!* We have a winner!

 

You don't have to initiate NC...it's rare they will contact you unless they want something they haven't yet found another source for. They are users of the worst kind and are not able to emotionally bond with anybody. A narcissist could care less if you are dead or alive, except to the extent that you can do something for them...or give them something they need.

 

Our "last stand"...the mask of his slipped, and I got to see what was underneath. He told me he didn't care if I was alive or dead. Even though I knew on some level by this time that it was true - I felt like I got kicked in the stomach. He wanted to inflict maximum damage on his way out of the door. How dare I have the nerve to walk?

 

It was also, strangely, one of the few times I felt in my heart he was being absolutely truthful with me. In a way, it was a relief.

 

Narcissists are the worst form of human vermin on the planet.

 

Haha, I love you.

[deux ex machina]

One thing narcissists do is lie through their butts about so many things. They will definitely cheat on you if given the opportunity. But they lie about everything. And you can also bet they will do the absolute MINIMUM of giving back in order to get whatever they can. Relationships with narcissists are usually 98 percent giving to them and 2 percent getting back...IF YOU'RE LUCKY!!!

 

That is when things got very sketchy and even worse - if that was possible! Lol.

 

When I (belatedly - which was my fault), put down boundaries and said, where's the reciprocation here?

 

So. I learned a lot fromt this experience. Boy, did I. I suppose it wasn't all for nothing after all. Set my boundaries up front, check the reciprocation level, ect.

 

He got soooo furious when I started doing this. Similar to an infant's fury when the breast won't give milk any longer, and the child gets so angry he tries to bite.

 

Primal rage, and one of the few times I felt he was truly real and present.

 

*shivers*

 

If confronted, they will cite whatever they did for you in the recent past and try to make you feel guilty for ever bringing it up. They are worthless turds.

 

Have I told you lately that I love you? Lol!

 

I need to keep you in my pocket to remind me of these things!

[Starshine Black]

Sorry, people here do not understand. Many of his behaviors are contradictory to the basics of narcissism.

 

Antisocial Personality Disorder is much more evident. Unless you can gather the strength to go into far greater detail, then I am sure, between Narcissistic PD or APD, he has APD.

 

This man is NOT primarily a nacissist..

[Starshine Black]

And you are the singular being blessed with the gift of intellect.

 

Go back to your hole.

 

 

Everyone ignore the troll. This is how he behaves on a daily basis.

He's funny as long as you don't take him serious lol

 

 

Back on topic. Narcissists are always known for their superficial, initial charm. By this man admitting a fault off the bat, well... You see the contradictions to narcissism?

[hoping2heal]

Btw, whoever said narcissists don't care about their children; that isn't exactly true. Narcissists often view their children as an extension of themselves. They will often be very protective over, and do some vicarious living through them even. A child is l ike an arm, or leg of the narcissist.

 

Secondly, HOW do they do it? Narcissists by trait are very charming and persuasive people. They have to be to "survive". They know how to manipulate others and fake emotion and bonding, they will do what is necessary as Tony T said to have their needs met, get "their" supply. They often don't care about who they left in their wake or who left them unless, they can't find someone else to satiate that need they have.

[Gemini09]

Narcissistic....

 

 

• Believing that you're better than others
  
• Fantasizing about power, success and attractiveness
  
• Exaggerating your achievements or talents
  
• Expecting constant praise and admiration
  
• Believing that you're special
  
• Failing to recognize other people's emotions and feelings
  
• Expecting others to go along with your ideas and plans
  
• Taking advantage of others
  
• Expressing disdain for those you feel are inferior
  
• Being jealous of others
  
• Believing that others are jealous of you
  
• Trouble keeping healthy relationships
  
• Setting unrealistic goals
  
• Being easily hurt and rejected
  
• Having a fragile self-esteem
  
• Appearing as tough-minded or unemotional
  

[moo]

Btw, whoever said narcissists don't care about their children; that isn't exactly true. Narcissists often view their children as an extension of themselves. They will often be very protective over, and do some vicarious living through them even. A child is l ike an arm, or leg of the narcissist.

 

That explains why my ex dotes on, even smothers his child at times, while all the while being such a selfish bastard. However, he treats the child more like a friend and not a child and does not provide the child structure.

[moo]

There's been a lot of discussion back on forth...is he a narcissist, is he not? I think we have to go with the fact that he was actually diagnosed by someone and the fact that the OP said she left out a lot of things he did. While I was surprised to read he was diagnosed, based on what the OP said, I'm going with it, because none of us have not met this man and the person who diagonsed him did.

[hoping2heal]

No... a true narcissist doesn't care about his own child. I don't know where that is coming from. Narcissists are completely in love with themselves, at their core, they only have room for themselves. They hardly view their child as anything other than an outsider.

 

Unless a narcissist only scored 74 on their axis 2 diagnosis, then their child is just another person who isn't them.

 

I'm highly confused at that belief.

 

Unless the child is a step child, a NPD always views their child as an extension of THEMSELVES, THAT is why they "care" and they only care about them with the same egoism and view they view themselves, they don't care about them in the sense of "oh I love my child" like a "healthy" parent would. NPD do not love themselves, and they do not love their children either; simply because they do not have the ability to love anyone or form any real emotional bonds. Everything is based on the ego. If someone insults their child; it is an insult to the narcissist so they will be vile about it, etc.

 

I don't know how you DIDN'T know that, with all the studying in psychology you d.

[DSM2709]

H2H, so would my ex be a Narcissist? Check the "Nail in the coffin" post.

[Starshine Black]

Sorry, perhaps I should have clarified.

 

A narcissist will only care about their child in terms of what the child can do for them. If the child does not cater to the needs of the parent, then the child is useless and would be ultimately worthless in their eyes. This is what I meant when I said they don't care about their child.

 

 

http://www.narcissism101.com/NarcissistsinMedia/NarcissistsinPrivate/narcissisticpare.html

 

 

 

Had the original poster simply said he goes to his childs events, etc., then I wouldn't have wavered. But she said he was a good father. Her viewpoint is what changes everything.

 

 

As for you, DSM, chances are she isn't. Narcissism is thrown around far, far too loosely.

[Tony T]

Sorry, people here do not understand. Many of his behaviors are contradictory to the basics of narcissism.

 

Antisocial Personality Disorder is much more evident. Unless you can gather the strength to go into far greater detail, then I am sure, between Narcissistic PD or APD, he has APD.

 

This man is NOT primarily a nacissist..

 

I have read a number of sites on APD and have concluded that evidence is far stronger for NPD here. The two can exist together in a percentage mixture so it's possible this guy had some APD but he was primarily Narcissistic...in my opinion. And you know what they say about opinions....

[Starshine Black]

There is strong evidence for NPD but there are some deep contradictions towards narcissism. Nothing here contradicts APD.

 

Narcissists don't hate themselves

They don't get down on themselves

They're not reported by close ones, as good fathers.

They don't admit flaws.

 

As to explain how he fooled a professional into thinking he's a narcissist, well, it's quite easy if he truly has APD. Because they manipulate and lie once every sentence. (Exaggeration but not much of one).

 

Narcissists just don't make those types of contradictions. Maybe one, maybe two. Not four.

[hoping2heal]

There is strong evidence for NPD but there are some deep contradictions towards narcissism. Nothing here contradicts APD.

 

Narcissists don't hate themselves

They don't get down on themselves

They're not reported by close ones, as good fathers.

They don't admit flaws.

 

As to explain how he fooled a professional into thinking he's a narcissist, well, it's quite easy if he truly has APD. Because they manipulate and lie once every sentence. (Exaggeration but not much of one).

 

Narcissists just don't make those types of contradictions. Maybe one, maybe two. Not four.

 

Narcissists actually DO hate themselves. Narcissism to the extent of one having NPD, is a deep rooted form of denial that masks among other things; self loathing. This is why they have very fragile egos and self esteem, and also why they react vehemently to anyone who doesn't mirror their like minded sense of self.

[deux ex machina]

Been reading this thread.

 

I just really wanted to thank everyone for all of the insight - it has helped me so much I cannot begin to tell you.

 

I'll update if anything earth-shattering occurs.

 

I would answer to each post individually but as I am sure you will understand I am still pretty shaken right now...fragile, still.

 

Sincerely. Thank you again.

[shadowplay]

Narcissists obviously don't take rejection well. If their relationship fails it will be a huge blow to their pride. If they are the type of Narcissist that is very anal in how they lead their life, they will suddenly experience a huge loss of control. Because sadness confronts them with their shattered ego they will often externalize the loss as anger instead. Their emotions tend to be shallow so once they get over their hurt pride, they won't really miss their SO. It's not about the loss of the other person (narcissists have trouble forming a deep bond with other people); it's about what the breakup reflects on them. It causes them cognitive dissonance because they have such an inflated ego that they can't believe someone would leave/cheat on/hurt them.

 

They'll rationalize it as "he/she didn't really deserve me," which isn't a bad getting over someone strategy. But the downside is they never allow themselves to directly feel the loss of the person they loved.

[deux ex machina]

Narcissists obviously don't take rejection well. If their relationship fails it will be a huge blow to their pride. If they are the type of Narcissist that is very anal in how they lead their life, they will suddenly experience a huge loss of control.

 

And, the only thing to do, then, is to get the sense of control back.

 

 

Because sadness confronts them with their shattered ego they will often externalize the loss as anger instead. Their emotions tend to be shallow so once they get over their hurt pride, they won't really miss their SO.

 

...none of it mattered...nothing.

 

I may as well have never existed.

 

 

It's not about the loss of the other person (narcissists have trouble forming a deep bond with other people); it's about what the breakup reflects on them. It causes them cognitive dissonance because they have such an inflated ego that they can't believe someone would leave/cheat on/hurt them.

 

It seems like this outrage. I don't know. He uses it.

 

Not only against another, but against himself, as well.

I may not know much of it, but I do know this: he hates himself. Frankly I don't see how he couldn't.

 

At the same time, he doesn't.

 

Anything only runs so deep with this guy.

 

Let's just put it this way: not really big on self-examination - or anything at all.

 

No deep thoughts, not exactly.

He's not the type.

 

[i will never get past the feeling though - there are things there, that are real. That are deep.

 

I realize that is a thought I shouldn't go around putting energy into.]

 

 

They'll rationalize it as "he/she didn't really deserve me," which isn't a bad getting over someone strategy.

 

He's dirtied me up in his mind, his thoughts,

at record speed.

 

That much became obvious to me in his dealings with me,

so quickly.

 

I'll never forget how that felt. How it feels. It feels like I got set up.

 

Nothing can help it, I know.

Anything I try to do would only make is worse.

 

Another thing I have to try to make sense of and accept. Somehow.

 

 

But the downside is they never allow themselves to directly feel the loss of the person they loved.

 

Ever hear silence make a deafening sound?

 

The spaces between the words say everything.

 

 

 

*thank you*

[deux ex machina]

He is losing himself.

He does not care.

It won't get better.

 

 

I want to help him. I am an idiot. Don't worry, I won't.

He's drowning, and there is nothing I can or should do.

 

 

It is sick.

I've lost faith to a degree I am not sure,

yet.

Degrading. f*cking base. Banal.

Just. Gone.

 

 

I can't quit thinking that this just cannot be real.