Narcissists

[freestyle]

a few more sources for educational purposes:

 

There`s a book called "Disarming the Narcissist".sorry I don`t remember the author.

 

Also,last week I stumbled across a website called, "Narcissists Suck". They both provided interesting and informative reading. The book actually took a compassionate approach which I didn`t expect.

 

I`m very sorry for the pain you`re experiencing, Deux.My heart goes out to you. It sounds like you`ve been through quite the mind-f*ck.

[Tony T]

Narcissists can be fun if you learn how to play with their minds...hahaha!

[kizik]

DEM, you've seen the truth, and it's ugly. But props to you for seeing it.

 

I've gotta say, you've got a cool writing style. Are you a poet?

 

-kiz

[The Collector]

I'm a bit of a narcissist, but can you blame me? What's not to love?

[kizik]

Ugh. To me that's not really funny, at least not in this thread. Clearly you haven't been affected by someone's extreme narcissism or you wouldn't be making light of it. It's something that invades your mind and corrupts your soul until you break free. Even then, it can take years to get over that person.

[2sure]

Something interesting I picked up at my therapists and that I read just prior to any conversation I have with my H:

 

It goes to the very core of the individual's personality and is a pervasive aspect of their lifestyle. This character flaw prevents them from keeping marriage vows and in the vast majority of cases narcissists will forever cheat on their spouse(s). It is interesting to note that narcissists rarely divorce and will fight tooth and nail to remain married. This is believed to go along with the need to be accepted by all mentality that narcissists possess. As strong as their need is to conquer outside their marriage; they turn into weeping idiots if/when their spouse even suggests divorce.

[The Collector]

Ugh. To me that's not really funny, at least not in this thread. Clearly you haven't been affected by someone's extreme narcissism or you wouldn't be making light of it. It's something that invades your mind and corrupts your soul until you break free. Even then, it can take years to get over that person.

 

To be fair, I haven't read the thread. On a more serious note then, I have wondered if my narcissistic tendencies are a result or some sort of coping mechanism to do with the fact that I am adopted. That 'primal wound' of rejection could have set me on a path of 'if I don't love myself maybe no one else will' I see this in some other adoptees, though not all. And it definitely did hurt other people until I learnt to develop a bit of empathy.

[kizik]

TC: The fact that you're reflecting on yourself at all means you are not a narcissist.

[The Collector]

TC: The fact that you're reflecting on yourself at all means you are not a narcissist.

 

Not any more, so much. But I'm 40 now, you should(n't) have met me when I was 20.

[kizik]

Don't worry, I dated you for three years when you were 21-24

[deux ex machina]

I'm a bit of a narcissist, but can you blame me? What's not to love?

 

We have the wind-up...

 

 

TC: The fact that you're reflecting on yourself at all means you are not a narcissist.

 

...the pitch...

 

 

Not any more, so much. But I'm 40 now, you should(n't) have met me when I was 20.

 

...nice swing!......

 

 

Don't worry, I dated you for three years when you were 21-24

 

...aaaannd he hits it outta the park!

 

 

It's fine to joke around in my thread! More than fine, in fact. It helps to laugh! And you two made me laugh! Tony (my love!) always does as well.

 

It helps give me perspective and sorta shakes me a bit. Which is good. I need it.

 

A situation like this can take it all out of you.

One just gets caught up in it, and everything becomes grey and humorless. That is no way to live...

 

*

 

So I have been coming to LS, fully intending to update and reply, and of course I haven't yet. I haven't forgotten, though.

 

I'm still in shock. I think so?

 

There's a lot of ghosts this whole thing called up out of the past I am shadowboxing with right now.

 

I'm sort of circling the thread...circling the thread...gathering up the courage to jump in...

 

I'll reply to each within days, promise.

I learn more and more, as I read and respond to you. I've learned so much from each of you, thanks so much for hanging in.

 

x

[deux ex machina]

Narcissists actually DO hate themselves. Narcissism to the extent of one having NPD, is a deep rooted form of denial that masks among other things; self loathing. This is why they have very fragile egos and self esteem, and also why they react vehemently to anyone who doesn't mirror their like minded sense of self.

 

Absolutely agree. That would appear to be the root of it. I couldn't put it any better.

 

Thanks, h2h.

[deux ex machina]

a few more sources for educational purposes:

 

There`s a book called "Disarming the Narcissist".sorry I don`t remember the author.

 

Also,last week I stumbled across a website called, "Narcissists Suck". They both provided interesting and informative reading. The book actually took a compassionate approach which I didn`t expect.

 

Thank you for the references. That’s interesting, that a book would take a compassionate approach.

 

As far as he goes, I don’t hate him. I doubt I ever could. I just do not love him.

 

I do not pity him, either. Anymore.

 

I`m very sorry for the pain you`re experiencing, Deux.My heart goes out to you. It sounds like you`ve been through quite the mind-f*ck.

 

If I ever believed in it, I’m not afraid of hell. I’ve been there.

 

This whole thing helped to liberate me from a lot. As such, while yes there is regret, there’s not much of it.

 

Thanks for “getting it”. I can tell that you do.

 

Getting past this is some work! Thanks for the encouragement.

[deux ex machina]

Narcissists can be fun if you learn how to play with their minds...hahaha!

 

 

You’ve helped me loads with distancing myself from all of this. With realizing that’s a key for me to escape the suffering and pain this thing put me in.

 

There have been a few funny little incidents that came up recently. Ahhhh...haha. He is so transparent.

 

Tony, one of the interesting things I found was that once I stopped personalizing, internalizing, rationalizing, and taking any responsibility for him…things became a lot more amusing.

 

I could almost see the gears turning in his head. It helps to be detached. Nay, indifferent? Hmmm. Funny how that happens.

 

I had my fun with him. He’s a genius, but I guess he forgot I am not exactly deficient in the intelligence arena, either. Of course he forgot. He’s a bloody narcissist. Lol. Therein lies the flaw. One of many.

 

We (as a society) take this this thing – The Narcissist – and we degrade it. Rightly so. Yet we also elevate it. We make something Evil, which in a way renders it mythic. And there is a certain fascination…what would we ourselves do if we have zero emotional accountability, to no one? Would it be freeing? Or a cage?

 

In the end though, at least to me, it comes off as…boring. Exhausting, stupid - base and banal.

 

Ironic, since it seems to me that is that last thing The Narcissist wants to be. After all, they’re oh-so-unique.

 

Well. That’s just too damn bad.

 

Thank you muchly.

[deux ex machina]

I shall get the rest of the responses out today. Yes, today!

 

Thanks for your patience.

 

Again, I've learned so much. I really feel this has helped me, and hopefully other people as well.

 

You've all been fab.

 

x

[deux ex machina]

DEM, you've seen the truth, and it's ugly. But props to you for seeing it.

 

I've gotta say, you've got a cool writing style. Are you a poet?

 

-kiz

 

Thanks, kiz. Yes, indeed. This has also prompted a whole crapload of self-examination as well.

 

I do write. Thank you for the kind words! I’m keeping my day job, though. At least for now. Lol.

[deux ex machina]

To be fair, I haven't read the thread. On a more serious note then, I have wondered if my narcissistic tendencies are a result or some sort of coping mechanism to do with the fact that I am adopted. That 'primal wound' of rejection could have set me on a path of 'if I don't love myself maybe no one else will' I see this in some other adoptees, though not all. And it definitely did hurt other people until I learnt to develop a bit of empathy.

 

 

It’s entirely possible. As was pointed out, the fact that you know this about yourself, and can put yourself in another’s shoes in very much to the positive.

 

“If I don’t love myself maybe no one else will” can cause wall-building, by default. Ask me how I know this. *guilty*...

 

Not sure why, but your post called to mind those little orphans from Romania. Remember that? I’m sure your circumstances weren’t as dire, but I think they had troubles bonding with their new parents, iirc.

 

My ex-vampire has this tendency. I recognize it, because I do as well. The vital difference is one of degree.

 

His led to this sadism at times. I understand it, but it doesn’t make it okay. I think it was a way attempt to make himself bulletproof, to keep things nice and shallow.

 

Away.

 

It was hard for me to pick up on, at first - that sadistic streak, and dehumanizing stance toward others. It appears to be some of what was behind some of his more hard-to-figure-out moments. He doesn’t care who he stomps on and how much, to protect his little feel-bads. Not checking the emotional temperature of the other, and NO remorse. Selfish to an extreme degree. An infantile one. That’s just a tad bit alienating, no?

 

So I guess…it worked. [?]

 

Yet and still, people don’t like picking up the emotional wreckage a grown man leaves behind. No one with a shred of love would, anyway.

 

Thanks for your input!

[deux ex machina]

Something interesting I picked up at my therapists and that I read just prior to any conversation I have with my H:

 

It goes to the very core of the individual's personality and is a pervasive aspect of their lifestyle. This character flaw prevents them from keeping marriage vows and in the vast majority of cases narcissists will forever cheat on their spouse(s). It is interesting to note that narcissists rarely divorce and will fight tooth and nail to remain married. This is believed to go along with the need to be accepted by all mentality that narcissists possess. As strong as their need is to conquer outside their marriage; they turn into weeping idiots if/when their spouse even suggests divorce.

 

…UNTIL THEY DON’T.

 

And when they have secured their new primary supply, you will be let go, and let go hard. Be prepared for the emotional whiplash and an extended state of shattering/shock, is all I have to tell you. Especially because they try so hard. It's not just a paradigm shift, it's a wrecking ball.

 

His cost/benefit analysis will determine for him how well (or not) he treats you. Not his affection or love for you. Because he can't love.

 

It's amazing how beautiful life can be without him in it. Even through grief, I see this. I don't have to be his dancing monkey anymore.

 

Once you catch your breath, fill the vacancy he leaves, with things that nourish you - that love you back? It will start to dawn on you on how much nothing you gave your soul away for, and you will be happy to be rid of it. He knows this. Part of the reason he tries so hard.

 

Your sig line, the Radiohead song…I lost my train of thought…(ugh, I’m so sorry...this period of time is a killer to focus through...ouch...hurts... )…

 

The real and present danger is the damage that will be done whilst you wend your way from point A to point B.

 

You can never make him whole. He is desperate, and your therapist is quite right when it comes to the fact he will, always and forever, be unfaithful to you. Thought and deed, both.

 

You give more, and in his eyes, that’s weak. He looks upon that with contempt. He sure wouldn’t do it.

 

And if you’re happy? So happy you forget to give *enough*? He’ll never forgive you for it.

 

He is a bottomless pit. A desperate, pathetic individual. No matter what you do, it will never work. It is built in such a way that it is GUARANTEED it won’t!

 

Being co-dependent turns a person inside out. It makes them crazy – entangled, obsessive, hypervigilant, and hard to be around. Don’t let that happen to you.

 

I am so sorry, love.

 

((((hugs))))

[wildflower 1]

I am currently in the process of disentangling myself from what was, all things considered, a fairly 'casual' relationship with a narcissistic man. I use the word casual relatively, as narcissistics are not capable of a casual healthly dating relationship with outside interests. This man was a workaholic and when he wasn't working (almost never) he was intent on seeing me. Narcissists live extremely INTENSE lifestyles. Fortunately, I set up pretty good boundaries in the beginning, telling him I would only allow him to see me twice a week at the most. Of course he called/texted/pushed that boundary as much as possible, but I didn't budge.

 

Some people don't understand the 'appeal' of a narcissistic man. It is this: he knows how to make women feel important. And he does it because he wants to CONTROL them. He really will seem genuinely HAPPY when he is doting on you, buying you things, satisfying you sexually, or making you smile. His happiness does not stem from the fact that he cares about you and is bringing you pleasure. It stems from the fact that he feels he is being SUCCESSFUL in 'winning' you and he feels powerful--like he is in control of you and your happiness. The difference is subtle, and very tricky to spot. A man who is truly in love with you will LOVE doing things for you, and your happiness will make him elatedly happy. The difference between this man and the narcissist is one of motivation, and it's hard to recognize.

 

When it comes to the 'break-up', you need to be calm and establish firm boundaries. You cannot give the narcissist an inch, because he will take a mile. Being friends is not an option. Neither is continued contact or communcation. If you ask him not to call you, he will email you until your inbox is oozing with his poisoned manipulative lies. You need to think of every possible means of contact and have a boundary in place to deal with it. If there is a way for him to get to you, he will find it. You breaking up with him, is like taking a beloved toy away from a four year old. The child will feel an immediately loss of control and fear--his world will be shaken. He will throw a tantrum and try everything he can to get it back. Expect no different from your adult male narcissist.

 

After he has exhausted all his efforts, he will abruptly quit stalking you, tell all his friends and family that you were a bad person and everything was your fault, and move on to another vulnerable woman.

[Arabella]

Oh my goodness.

 

I've spent months obsessing over my relationship with my ex, trying to crack the code to his mind just so I could understand him & support him, or at least survive the relationship...

 

The whole time, I ignored this thread. I just saw it and it hit me like a ton of bricks.

 

I recently wrote a post in the Addiction & Recovery section about all the issues my ex had that I thought stemmed from him being Bipolar (among other things...).

 

Am I the only one seeing a ton of common features that may not be from him being Bipolar after all? Thoughts?

 

Arabella

[deux ex machina]

I never did update this thread, lol

[deux ex machina]

I am currently in the process of disentangling myself from what was, all things considered, a fairly 'casual' relationship with a narcissistic man. I use the word casual relatively, as narcissistics are not capable of a casual healthly dating relationship with outside interests. This man was a workaholic and when he wasn't working (almost never) he was intent on seeing me. Narcissists live extremely INTENSE lifestyles. Fortunately, I set up pretty good boundaries in the beginning, telling him I would only allow him to see me twice a week at the most. Of course he called/texted/pushed that boundary as much as possible, but I didn't budge.

 

I am here just shaking my head...

 

it is remarkable that you were about to keep limits like that. Really.

 

 

Some people don't understand the 'appeal' of a narcissistic man. It is this: he knows how to make women feel important. And he does it because he wants to CONTROL them. He really will seem genuinely HAPPY when he is doting on you, buying you things, satisfying you sexually, or making you smile. His happiness does not stem from the fact that he cares about you and is bringing you pleasure. It stems from the fact that he feels he is being SUCCESSFUL in 'winning' you and he feels powerful--like he is in control of you and your happiness. The difference is subtle, and very tricky to spot. A man who is truly in love with you will LOVE doing things for you, and your happiness will make him elatedly happy. The difference between this man and the narcissist is one of motivation, and it's hard to recognize.

 

Yes. It is.

 

 

When it comes to the 'break-up', you need to be calm and establish firm boundaries. You cannot give the narcissist an inch, because he will take a mile. Being friends is not an option. Neither is continued contact or communcation. If you ask him not to call you, he will email you until your inbox is oozing with his poisoned manipulative lies. You need to think of every possible means of contact and have a boundary in place to deal with it. If there is a way for him to get to you, he will find it. You breaking up with him, is like taking a beloved toy away from a four year old. The child will feel an immediately loss of control and fear--his world will be shaken. He will throw a tantrum and try everything he can to get it back. Expect no different from your adult male narcissist.

 

After he has exhausted all his efforts, he will abruptly quit stalking you, tell all his friends and family that you were a bad person and everything was your fault, and move on to another vulnerable woman.

 

It's like a whirlwind, the intensity.

 

 

Where are you at now, in the process you said? Are you okay?

[deux ex machina]

Oh my goodness.

 

I've spent months obsessing over my relationship with my ex, trying to crack the code to his mind just so I could understand him & support him, or at least survive the relationship...

 

The whole time, I ignored this thread. I just saw it and it hit me like a ton of bricks.

 

I recently wrote a post in the Addiction & Recovery section about all the issues my ex had that I thought stemmed from him being Bipolar (among other things...).

 

Am I the only one seeing a ton of common features that may not be from him being Bipolar after all? Thoughts?

 

Arabella

 

 

Hi, Arabella.

 

Yes, this thread has helped a lot of people. I'm always surprised, but I guess part of the reason was I kept details out of it - I was too overwhelmed to detail anything

 

It's really good, though.

 

Trust your perceptions. What do you think?

 

Someone can be diagnosed with NPD, that's the only way one can know with a reasonable amount of certainty.

 

A person can be a narcissist, have lots of narcissistic traits, yes. People in their inner circle would witness things.

 

Trust yourself.

 

They usually save their best (heh), for those they "love"...

[deux ex machina]

Just in time for the Holidays, he tries to come back.

 

He brought flowers. Daisies. Which was significant.

 

I told him once that I love daisies more than roses. They grow in the Spring, my birthday is in the Spring - and that is when when the world is renewed, again and again. Plus, their faces are so sweet - open and happy.

 

That he remembered was a surprise. That really tugged at me. A lot.

 

He must have heard that things didn't work out with a recent false-start? But that is unlikely, I didn't bring much of it up with friends, and he's been out of touch, so I'm not sure.

 

He said he thinks of me every day, and wanted me to know that.

His timing is absolutely horrible. Some things never change.