Jacky Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 I am an OM, the MW I was with said it was better than her H. Maybe it was the fact that we were at that time both giving a lot of passion and emotion. It could be the naughtyness of the affair as well. Link to post Share on other sites
Gamine Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 Well, I suppose if one operates in such a way whereby everything is self serving and views everyone in their life as extensions of themselves and their 'hidden' or disclosed will, then truthfulness will only be useful if there is a payoff. Why do BS's and OP remain with WS's? In my arena I didn't enter into or have a relationship with a cheating husband. The only person who has a relationship with a cheating spouse is the affair partner. So, the question seems absurd to me. Speaking for myself, he would have been shown the door and on the 'shoe leather express' had the cheating continued. This is in stark contrast to the AP who co-creates the cheating and remains with the WS. As for judgement. Judgement is not the same as condemnation. I don't have the means or position to condemn, however as a sentient being I make judgements all day long every day. Make a right turn or a left turn. Eat a salad or a piece of chocolate cake. Take vitamins or shoot up with heroin. Earn money honestly or steal for a living. Live in integrity or be a weasel. Honor my commitments with brass ones or be a worm and do whatever feels good. Here's the way I see it. When DI and his wife married there were two people involved in this decision. Do you know that in many states the marriage isn't considered to be between the couple, but between the two people and the state? I am sure one of the posters (who shall remain nameless) will revel in this ... however marriage is a bona fide contract. Both agree that in exchange for mutual promises they will form a union called marriage. Unless it was a shotgun wedding the two people agree to legally merge. There is hardly any other contractual arrangement that could possibly be entered with greater risk and reward. Each agrees to become explicitly vulnerable to the other under the protection of the terms of their contract, or union. Marrying someone makes you vulnerable to them in ways that no other relationship (business or personal) ever could. And it is the reliance on the integrity of the person to honor what they have willingly entered into that affords the vulnerable people their respective protections. That's why people marry. It says things about their 'love', it is a commitment, and it is a promise. If anyone entered into and conducted business dealings in this way there would hardly be a soul (with the exception of crooks) who would agree that one has the moral and ethical right to do as they please in defiance of what they've agreed upon. Self dealing is an unethical act. Pretty clear. Why should marriage be carved out as an exemption? DI has never stated that he is no longer enjoying the benefits of his marriage. Sex, shared money, shared meals, duties, physical and emotional comforts, etc... Has DI given up accepting marital gifts? Gifts that are given to him under the auspices that he is acting honorably with regard to his commitments to her? This is where it becomes immoral. While he is sitting back like the king presiding over the universe, she is still muddling along giving him the comforts of her... and may very well be giving him the comforts of her body. If he is still sharing a bed with this woman, eating her food, accepting her supporting words, conversing with her and ... in general TAKING... he owes her. I frankly don't see where this individual SEPARATED, MOVED OUT, SLEEPING ALONE IN ANOTHER ROOM, EATING ON HIS OWN, while he contemplates his life. But like a king he wants it all with everyone being duped while he assesses how he might come out ahead in this deal. Now, if that isn't immoral I don't know what is. Link to post Share on other sites
Gamine Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 I'd like to add something. Those advocating that the WS take care of their needs first and do what serves their interests alone... I'd like to know how you'd feel about something... How would you like to go to work every day giving it your best and have your employer turn around and not pay you? You ask where your check is... Their response? I bought a new set of golf clubs. Looks like you don't get your check. Maybe next month. But keep showing up every day and maybe I'll pay you and maybe I won't. Maybe your desk will be here tomorrow or I'll move you where I see fit. Maybe I'll interview a whole slew of others out there in the workforce if you don't quiet down and take what I'm doling out? Maybe I'll take away your health insurance and not tell you about it. But hey, please... by all means... continue to show up every day and work. And maybe... just maybe... if you follow me like a moving target... I may do right by you... I don't know ... It depends on what I feel like doing and in the meantime if you complain... I'll continue interviewing other candidates. Like it? Link to post Share on other sites
marlena Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 Affair sex is forbidden sex. The pinnacle of passion! The Adam and Eve syndrome I call it. Link to post Share on other sites
Sanafa Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 I'd like to add something. Those advocating that the WS take care of their needs first and do what serves their interests alone... I'd like to know how you'd feel about something... How would you like to go to work every day giving it your best and have your employer turn around and not pay you? You ask where your check is... Their response? I bought a new set of golf clubs. Looks like you don't get your check. Maybe next month. But keep showing up every day and maybe I'll pay you and maybe I won't. Maybe your desk will be here tomorrow or I'll move you where I see fit. Maybe I'll interview a whole slew of others out there in the workforce if you don't quiet down and take what I'm doling out? Maybe I'll take away your health insurance and not tell you about it. But hey, please... by all means... continue to show up every day and work. And maybe... just maybe... if you follow me like a moving target... I may do right by you... I don't know ... It depends on what I feel like doing and in the meantime if you complain... I'll continue interviewing other candidates. Like it? I am off to work so cannot reply properly However you are comparing apples and oranges.....it doesn't work. Regardless, again - If you feel so strongly about the union of marriage - you are correct it was YOU and your WS that was in your marriage - not the OP So how on earth can you move on with life and pretend it's all good:rolleyes: when you spouse broke destroyed the union..... Btw - Judging people versus what salad you are going to have is again...apples and oranges. I certainly hope you are perfect......sitting up there must be pretty cool. Honestly I am starting to believe true recovery in this situations are almost none exsitance. As far as I am concerned if you can so easily harbor judgement for WS/OW on the internet I can only imagine how deep it goes for the ones actually in your life. Link to post Share on other sites
freestyle Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 Gamine, that was a brilliant analogy about the unpaid employee. Can I borrow that? I also liked comparing the marriage contract to the business contract.......... Link to post Share on other sites
Gamine Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 I am off to work so cannot reply properly However you are comparing apples and oranges.....it doesn't work. Regardless, again - If you feel so strongly about the union of marriage - you are correct it was YOU and your WS that was in your marriage - not the OP So how on earth can you move on with life and pretend it's all good:rolleyes: when you spouse broke destroyed the union..... Btw - Judging people versus what salad you are going to have is again...apples and oranges. I certainly hope you are perfect......sitting up there must be pretty cool. Honestly I am starting to believe true recovery in this situations are almost none exsitance. As far as I am concerned if you can so easily harbor judgement for WS/OW on the internet I can only imagine how deep it goes for the ones actually in your life. Apples and oranges are still both fruit. I can move on and enjoy life because I have a clear head. I know with certainty my head's on straight and I like myself. Now, here's where I have to just scratch my head. If I can easily harbor judgment against the WS/OW on the internet... how deep does it go in real life? My answer: I walk it like I talk it. What you see is what you get. No, I do not pat my husband's head and tell him he's a great guy for having an affair. I certainly wouldn't send the OW a thank you card. I read your question and the most resounding point that comes to mind is.... "Are you kidding me?". If the time ever came that I was screwing around and threw stones at my husband and the woman he messed around with... well then I'd be sitting on a throne I don't deserve. Until then? Hey. I am where I am because my integrity put me there... and kept me there. Link to post Share on other sites
Sanafa Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 I am not "advocating" his keep it from his W I am advocating that he continue as he said he is. Working to come to some decisions, if he decides to stay he has already said he will tell her with the help of a MC. NO ONE was advocating a long term lie. He wants to work through things and yes, I for one ( I know Gamine... the blind leading the blind) think this is the mature thing he can do. MP who run and tell their S... IMO are looking to get rid of the guilt or were close to being caught...they are not doing it for the BS Forget that the majority NEVER tell the BS until there is a full on DDay. Link to post Share on other sites
Gamine Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 Gamine, that was a brilliant analogy about the unpaid employee. Can I borrow that? I also liked comparing the marriage contract to the business contract.......... Hey freestyle! I'm glad you liked it... Please do borrow it!!!! Link to post Share on other sites
Sanafa Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 Apples and oranges are still both fruit. I can move on and enjoy life because I have a clear head. I know with certainty my head's on straight and I like myself. Now, here's where I have to just scratch my head. If I can easily harbor judgment against the WS/OW on the internet... how deep does it go in real life? My answer: I walk it like I talk it. What you see is what you get. No, I do not pat my husband's head and tell him he's a great guy for having an affair. I certainly wouldn't send the OW a thank you card. I read your question and the most resounding point that comes to mind is.... "Are you kidding me?". If the time ever came that I was screwing around and threw stones at my husband and the woman he messed around with... well then I'd be sitting on a throne I don't deserve. Until then? Hey. I am where I am because my integrity put me there... and kept me there. Not kidding you at all..... underlying resentment is underlying resentment ( ask a IC about that) And honestly..... go at it...I just can't imagine wanting to be in the same space ( no offence) with anyone who finds it so easy to pass judgement. You haven't walked in DI shoes.... you can only make assumptions and we both know what they say about those that assume. Everyone have a good day.... work calls. Link to post Share on other sites
donnamaybe Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 Not kidding you at all..... underlying resentment is underlying resentment ( ask a IC about that) And honestly..... go at it...I just can't imagine wanting to be in the same space ( no offence) with anyone who finds it so easy to pass judgement. You haven't walked in DI shoes.... you can only make assumptions and we both know what they say about those that assume. Everyone have a good day.... work calls. It's pretty simple, really. A promise was made; a promise was broken. Lies were told. Deceit was in full play. I don't think any assumptions are necessary to come to an obvious conclusion about that. Link to post Share on other sites
Gamine Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 I don't pretend to have underlying resentment. I have actual consciously directed thoughts that I contour. There is nothing underlying about it. I consciously resent cheating. So? Link to post Share on other sites
NoIDidn't Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 I thought the "underlying resentment" comment was a little out of place too. Who wouldn't have resentment concerning cheating? Where is DI? I hope we bickering ladies didn't run you off! Link to post Share on other sites
Author Devil Inside Posted August 26, 2009 Author Share Posted August 26, 2009 Is it safe to come out?...LOL I see my dilemma has caused quite a stir...makes sense...it is a triggering situation. Once again, great points made by both camps. I can see how disrespectful it has been for me to keep my A a secret. Is it immoral? Well that depends on who is making that assessment...morals are a personal thing. So for Gamine it is immoral...that is her personal code...and I think others would agree. I do feel bad about it...but like I said before...it will come out if I decide to work on my marriage...if not I think it would only cause unnecessary destruction. Link to post Share on other sites
donnamaybe Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 I'm not so sure if it's a morality issue as much as a personal integrity issue. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Devil Inside Posted August 26, 2009 Author Share Posted August 26, 2009 I'm not so sure if it's a morality issue as much as a personal integrity issue. That too. As for my personal integrity...well it's pretty much non-existent right now...cheating and lying are definitely not who I wanted to be. Hard to look in the mirror and see a scumbag looking back...but I have to accept it. Link to post Share on other sites
donnamaybe Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 That too. As for my personal integrity...well it's pretty much non-existent right now...cheating and lying are definitely not who I wanted to be. Hard to look in the mirror and see a scumbag looking back...but I have to accept it. I wouldn't go so far as "scumbag," but at least you don't like the fact that you are doing these things. So change it! Link to post Share on other sites
Author Devil Inside Posted August 26, 2009 Author Share Posted August 26, 2009 I wouldn't go so far as "scumbag," but at least you don't like the fact that you are doing these things. So change it! OK...good point. I have to live in the now. Starting back at one. Link to post Share on other sites
donnamaybe Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 OK...good point. I have to live in the now. Starting back at one. Everyone can screw up now and again. Some folks don't care. You obviously do. You get a bunny! ---> Link to post Share on other sites
KonfusedinCanada Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 That too. As for my personal integrity...well it's pretty much non-existent right now...cheating and lying are definitely not who I wanted to be. Hard to look in the mirror and see a scumbag looking back...but I have to accept it. can I just say, I feel exactly the same. meet your scumbag twin... Link to post Share on other sites
Author Devil Inside Posted August 26, 2009 Author Share Posted August 26, 2009 Everyone can screw up now and again. Some folks don't care. You obviously do. You get a bunny! ---> I think deep down everyone care...unless they are truly have Antisocial PD. However, denial is a huge wall to climb. I can no longer deny that what I did was a horrible, cruel, and betraying. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Devil Inside Posted August 26, 2009 Author Share Posted August 26, 2009 can I just say, I feel exactly the same. meet your scumbag twin... Hey brother...now we need to do like Donna says and use this feeling of shame as motivation to make things right. No use is wallowing...we f**c**d up...no denying it...now what can we do to move on? Link to post Share on other sites
KonfusedinCanada Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 Hey brother...now we need to do like Donna says and use this feeling of shame as motivation to make things right. No use is wallowing...we f**c**d up...no denying it...now what can we do to move on? K well i'd rather you call me sister, although I sometimes feel like my actions are those of a man rather than a woman these days! But I agree with you on the "what do we do to move on" deal. I think I'm with you in the fact that I need to decide if I even want to stay with my H. I know I need to end my A with my MM, which I am working on doing, and I know my H loves me and really wants to work on things however, I can't do that just because I know he wants that. He deserves to be with someone who wants him as much as he wants them. My insecurity is the root of my problems...now it's just figuring out what to do from here... Link to post Share on other sites
Author Devil Inside Posted August 26, 2009 Author Share Posted August 26, 2009 K well i'd rather you call me sister, although I sometimes feel like my actions are those of a man rather than a woman these days! But I agree with you on the "what do we do to move on" deal. I think I'm with you in the fact that I need to decide if I even want to stay with my H. I know I need to end my A with my MM, which I am working on doing, and I know my H loves me and really wants to work on things however, I can't do that just because I know he wants that. He deserves to be with someone who wants him as much as he wants them. My insecurity is the root of my problems...now it's just figuring out what to do from here... Sorry KinC...I forgot you were a woman...forgive me....LOL End your A before you decide about your M. I think while you are in the M you are not thinking straight...trust me on this. Link to post Share on other sites
donnamaybe Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 I think deep down everyone care...unless they are truly have Antisocial PD. Well, there's APD aplenty on this site, then, because I have read posts by people saying how they don't care about anyone but themselves; that they look after themselves and it's everyone else's job to do the same. They are out to "get theirs" and the hell with everyone else. Really. I've seen it many, many times. Makes me really sick. While I agree to a point (we have to help ourselves before we can expect anyone else to), we should also try our damndest to NOT dump on others. Link to post Share on other sites
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