BSs: Why are you posting on an OM/OW forum?

[fooled once]

Jenni and Fooled Once do you have to hijack EVERY thread with your fighting?

 

are you kidding me???

[jasminetea]

The unit I referred to was that of MM and I in relation to the outward world.

 

And I totally agree with you, you don't have to be married to be monogamous, so why marry at all? To keep someone with you out of a sense of obligation who has fallen out of love with you? No way I would want that. I'd rather be the OW, which is what I am.

 

Oh you can cheat without being married too. As you know.

 

Marriage has nothing to do with forcing fidelity, but everything to do with becoming a real and strong partnership and all that that entails. Yes, its possible to have that partnership without marriage, but much harder to keep that partnership going when the tough times come around. Marriage, whilst not preventing the rough spots, does help the couple to see them out and as a result strengthen their relationship. You only have to look at Herenow's story to see a good example of that.

 

I think that I would rather be single than be an OW and I would also rather be single than be with a man who was with me only out of duty. However, I rather doubt that such a man exists!

[Owl]

I post here and on the infidelity forums (and the seperation one as well) with the intent to help the people that come here in pain and are looking for a way to deal with that pain.

 

And I post "support"...that doesn't mean blanket agreemant with someone...that means providing the best advice I can give to help someone resolve their problem and handle the pain.

[jennie-jennie]

Thank you, Owl, for bringing the thread back to the original subject.

[OWoman]

Why is that? What is it about 'most' BSs/APs reactions to the OW/you that convince you you are 'correct' in continuing an affair with a MM?

 

Put the way you did, it sounds as though you're doing it out of spite for the BS/AP

 

Well, you know, when there is someone outside the unit, a unit gets tighter knitted together.

 

The fact that the attempts to convince the AP are so weak, like "if he really loved you" and "what you are doing is morally wrong", makes it easy for me to disregard them after having looked at my own view and decided that I see these matters completely differently. In fact this strengthens the views I harbor.

 

I have also taken a dislike to the institution of marriage while reading this board. BSs and reformed APs do not present marriage as something one wishes to strive for, quite the opposite. Hearing you all take about commitment and duty makes me understand better what is pulling MM away from me. And it is not love. I have grown to a greater understanding of MM's dilemma of being torn between duty and love.

 

This wasn't addressed to me, but since I made a similar claim to Jen's on another thread, I'm going to hijack the soapbox and respond, too!

 

The reason I claimed LS "validated" my choice to be an OW was not to "spite" the BS, as stated above, but because the knee-jerk, narrowminded bigotry of the posters (mainly BS, plus a couple of others) who attacked me for my "unrepentance" and called me a whore and worse, underscored the huge gulf between me and them. I thought, thank god these people hate my lifestyle so! Thank god they do not approve of who I am and what I am doing - this shows that I am not like them, that I cannot be confused as being one of them, that I am so clearly not them. I would hate to be so narrow-minded or bigoted or ignorant, unable to see beyond the tiny confines of my own way of thinking - and if it is my choice of who I have sex with that creates that difference, then I will wear that with pride, because it defines me as not-them.

 

Everytime one of those "haters" posted a comment about OWs and OMs deserving to be stoned to death, I felt vindicated and affirmed. The fact that I was seen by them as a threat, that their smug inbred lifestyle was threatened by my mere existence on the other side of the world, that made me feel that my choice was a responsible one, the right one, the one I should persist in. I felt really proud of who I was ans what I was doing, because it counterposed me to all that they stood for. And, as an activist, that felt right.

 

I don't need the validation of LS. I get validation from my own life and my own judgment, and I get affirmation from friends, family, colleagues and people I interact with in daily life on a casual basis. I know who and what I am, and I'm happy with that - and those that I care about value me for that. So to be rejected and branded and flooded with a hating response by the kind of people that IRL I'd just feel sorry for, felt appropriate and resonated with my RL experience - just as the empathetic, supportive and respectful exchanges with other LS posters (including some BSs) who are not among those reactionary bigots resonated on the positive side.

[jennie-jennie]

OWoman, you put words on my emotions!

:bunny:

[jasminetea]

Its interesting how the BS who have been so vehement in their dislike of you have had the biggest impact. It would seem that the vast majority of BS on this board are far more neutral than those you've quoted. But I guess its true that it takes five positive things to happen to you to make up for one negative thing that's happened to you.

 

I'm not sure about your definition of bigot as someone who dislikes you and women like you and who will express it. I would think it perfectly natural and justified to dislike a woman who represents something that tried to destroy your marriage.

[fooled once]

This wasn't addressed to me, but since I made a similar claim to Jen's on another thread, I'm going to hijack the soapbox and respond, too!

 

The reason I claimed LS "validated" my choice to be an OW was not to "spite" the BS, as stated above, but because the knee-jerk, narrowminded bigotry of the posters (mainly BS, plus a couple of others) who attacked me for my "unrepentance" and called me a whore and worse, underscored the huge gulf between me and them. I thought, thank god these people hate my lifestyle so! Thank god they do not approve of who I am and what I am doing - this shows that I am not like them, that I cannot be confused as being one of them, that I am so clearly not them. I would hate to be so narrow-minded or bigoted or ignorant, unable to see beyond the tiny confines of my own way of thinking - and if it is my choice of who I have sex with that creates that difference, then I will wear that with pride, because it defines me as not-them.

 

Everytime one of those "haters" posted a comment about OWs and OMs deserving to be stoned to death, I felt vindicated and affirmed. The fact that I was seen by them as a threat, that their smug inbred lifestyle was threatened by my mere existence on the other side of the world, that made me feel that my choice was a responsible one, the right one, the one I should persist in. I felt really proud of who I was ans what I was doing, because it counterposed me to all that they stood for. And, as an activist, that felt right.

 

I don't need the validation of LS. I get validation from my own life and my own judgment, and I get affirmation from friends, family, colleagues and people I interact with in daily life on a casual basis. I know who and what I am, and I'm happy with that - and those that I care about value me for that. So to be rejected and branded and flooded with a hating response by the kind of people that IRL I'd just feel sorry for, felt appropriate and resonated with my RL experience - just as the empathetic, supportive and respectful exchanges with other LS posters (including some BSs) who are not among those reactionary bigots resonated on the positive side.

 

I hope you reported all those people who said those things; because that is a violation of TOS on this board, right?

 

It is sad you felt that way.

 

But ..... you are not an OW now, right? Like GEL, you married the man you were having an affair with? So you aren't really an OW anymore, correct?

[Gamine]

In reading the short list of posters to the forum and their alleged camps I note that perhaps you have not properly categorized everyone. Myself in particular. Because I have a world of experience as a woman it includes many things. And, I am a compendium of my experiences and bring them all to the table. I have not always been a wife. In fact I was single longer than I have been married.

 

So let's just say that I have a 'been there done that' point of view from all sides of my fence. And to the extent that my experience can shed some light on a subject that one might not have considered...well, suffice to say the reader can benefit from it or decide it is total crap. It is really just throwing out breadcrumbs into the sea.

 

In my history, however, I have never had a hardened heart. I was merely where I was when I was in that place during a time in my life. I've learned that there can be some 'behind the scenes' situations that I wasn't privy to before and honestly speaking if someone were to say something oppositional to my judgements on my own life... of course I would have been defensive. The truth, for me, would have hurt.

 

I have met numerous OW who I personally think are very interesting and very nice women... who I actually like very much. There are others who I interpret as being very vengeful and angry. Almost as if being the OW is a 'cause'. Some really have soft hearts and it is with these women I can relate.

 

I'm here to share my POV. To share myself.

[fooled once]

Its interesting how the BS who have been so vehement in their dislike of you have had the biggest impact. It would seem that the vast majority of BS on this board are far more neutral than those you've quoted. But I guess its true that it takes five positive things to happen to you to make up for one negative thing that's happened to you.

 

I'm not sure about your definition of bigot as someone who dislikes you and women like you and who will express it. I would think it perfectly natural and justified to dislike a woman who represents something that tried to destroy your marriage.[/QUOTE]

 

Excellent post!

[jennie-jennie]

Its interesting how the BS who have been so vehement in their dislike of you have had the biggest impact. It would seem that the vast majority of BS on this board are far more neutral than those you've quoted. But I guess its true that it takes five positive things to happen to you to make up for one negative thing that's happened to you.

 

I'm not sure about your definition of bigot as someone who dislikes you and women like you and who will express it. I would think it perfectly natural and justified to dislike a woman who represents something that tried to destroy your marriage.[/QUOTE]

 

That is exactly what I can't get my head around. If you dislike the women who represent something that tried to destroy your marriage (which to me is a natural reaction) why would you be on an OW/OM forum to support them?

[jennie-jennie]

Fooled once, excuse me for asking, but I find it curious that you joined Loveshack in April 2009 when your own EMR lies more than a decade back in time. What prompted you to join this long after?

[jasminetea]

I can only speak for myself, but as I said, I'm not here to support them. At least, not the ones who's actions are as hard faced as their personas. There are others however, who are as willing to see and understand the BS point of view as many BS wish to see theirs; and that demonstrates to me that they have a depth that is worth inquiring of even if I wouldn't be so arrogant to think I could help them in any way.

[Impudent Oyster]

I am curious about what motivates BSs to post on an OM/OW forum.

 

Is it truly out of concern for the other women, women who are doing the exact same thing that some other OW did with your own husband?

 

Out of concern? Oh hell NO.

 

I post here because typically, women who are OW don't broadcast it, they keep it a secret, but here I can tell them what I think of what they're doing.

 

It's not like you know who an OW is....most people keep something like that a shameful secret. Here I have the opportunity to question what makes the OW tick, because for the life of me, I don't get it.

[IfWishesWereHorses]

I do believe I bring a different perspective than most regular OPs on this board, since I harbor no plans of leaving at the moment but neither am I claiming to be totally happy with my situation, nor totally unhappy.

 

Most of the regular posters on this forum have held your perspective. That's because it exists as part of a phase of a cycle. Eventually though, ambivalence gets in the way and it becomes an unhealthy situation for the OPs. I don't believe that you get to the point of being an XOW or in a mutually exclusive R with XMM without first holding your perspective.

[jennie-jennie]

I do believe I bring a different perspective than most regular OPs on this board, since I harbor no plans of leaving at the moment but neither am I claiming to be totally happy with my situation, nor totally unhappy.

 

Most of the regular posters on this forum have held your perspective. That's because it exists as part of a phase of a cycle. Eventually though, ambivalence gets in the way and it becomes an unhealthy situation for the OPs. I don't believe that you get to the point of being an XOW or in a mutually exclusive R with XMM without first holding your perspective.

 

Well, in that case my participation on the forum helps others in the same phase as I to identify.

[tami-chan]

Very unscientific I know, but let's just go back to AR's recent thread and check who responded to it:

 

jennie-jennie - OW and BS

GEL - OW

2sure - not sure which

whichwayisup - BS

Owl - BS

Chrome Barracuda - BS

Mino - OW

Sanafa -OW

jj33 - OW

bentnotbroken - BS

sugarmomma - OW

jasminetea - BS

ladydesigner - OW

Gamine -BS

fooled once - OW

dn121 - OW

tami-chan - OW and BS

 

which makes 8 OW, 6 BS, 2 OW and BS, one unknown.

 

Gotta give it to you, jw171, seems your 50-50 was more correct judging from this thread.

 

Jennie, I think 2sure and Gamine are reformed OWs and now BSs.

[OWoman]

Its interesting how the BS who have been so vehement in their dislike of you have had the biggest impact. It would seem that the vast majority of BS on this board are far more neutral than those you've quoted. But I guess its true that it takes five positive things to happen to you to make up for one negative thing that's happened to you.

 

I didn't claim that they'd had the biggest impact - I was simply explaining why I felt that LS had "validated" my choice to be an OW. Yes, there are several BSs who are not "haters" - though the proportion of "haters" to "non-haters" is something that fluctuates as some members crawl out of the woodwork with all their socks and flood the boards with bile, and then get infractions and slink off again for a while. I've had constructive exchanges with people of all labels here - but most of the respectful and mature exchanges are not about saying, "good for you! You go girl with your OW lifestyle!" They're more intelligent about that, focussing on issues and nuances, engaging the person and not the label. They're supportive without being rah-rah cheerleading. So, in those terms, I've not found the (OW or anything else) positive equivalent of the negative "hater" response.

 

So, in terms of "validation", from the postive / intelligent side - well, that's not what you'll find. What you'll find is support, affirmation, engagement, and some real and genuine warmth and caring. While on the negative / intelligence-free side, you'll get "hating" and damnation to hell and threats of physical violence (however empty) - which, perversely, validates.

 

I'm not sure about your definition of bigot as someone who dislikes you and women like you and who will express it.

 

That was not my definition of a bigot. My definition of a bigot is the same as you'd find in a reputable dictionary like the OED. However, those who express sentiments such as I described show themselves to be bigots as defined by the OED.

 

I don't need to define "green" as "the colour of a plant that grows on a lawn" to recognised grass as being green - I'm perfectly capable of applying a generic definition of green (according to the spectrum) to the phenomenon of grass in front of me and coming up with a positive match. I think anyone with an IQ bigger than their shoe size can do that.

 

I would think it perfectly natural and justified to dislike a woman who represents something that tried to destroy your marriage.

 

Well, I guess that's a difference between us. I don't look at individuals as labels, I see them as people. My friends don't all think, act or vote like me. I'm capable of befriending someone whose world view differs from mine, and of not taking blanket views personally.

 

It's "perfectly natural and justified" for black people to dislike "people who represent something that tried to destroy" their socio-economic and cultural systems, ie white people. But a great many black people have white friends, because they recognise that that individual white person was not the one who enslaved their grandmother or who stole their forefathers' land, and that that individual white person may have something else to offer them as a friend that outweighs any negative associations they have with white people. Most people - or at least, most intelligent people - are able to distinguish the abstract from the particular, and to make judgments on the individual merits of each case.

 

I hope you reported all those people who said those things; because that is a violation of TOS on this board, right?

 

The entire thread got deleted by the mods because there was so much hate speech on it. People do tend to report the worst abuses, and the worst abusers do tend to take (enforced) holidays from LS.

 

It is sad you felt that way.

 

But ..... you are not an OW now, right? Like GEL, you married the man you were having an affair with? So you aren't really an OW anymore, correct?

 

It depends on your definition of OW. Yes, my fMM and I are now M. Technically I'm a fOW. But because I'm unrepentant, I've not been blessed with that cleansing kiss of approval that repentant, XOWs who recant and rend their garments and put ash in their hair get. I'm considered even worse by the "haters" - I'm that most poisonous object of all - the successful, victorious OW who snatches the MM away from his BW, the ultimate evil that withers babies in the wombs of passing innocents.

 

It's not like you know who an OW is....most people keep something like that a shameful secret.

 

I guess I'm not "most people". I don't see it as a "shameful secret", and am not ashamed of it. It's nothing I've ever hidden, nor has my H - when people we don't know ask how we met, we tell them the truth. No one has ever reacted negatively - most see it as a wonderfully romantic story of "true love overcoming adversity" and are thrilled that it worked out for us. (And yes, that includes some fBSs. We do have some fBSs among our friends.)

[tami-chan]

I post here and on the infidelity forums (and the seperation one as well) with the intent to help the people that come here in pain and are looking for a way to deal with that pain.

 

And I post "support"...that doesn't mean blanket agreemant with someone...that means providing the best advice I can give to help someone resolve their problem and handle the pain.

 

 

and I am sure many are grateful for sharing your knowledge and wisdom with them, Owl. But I think the frustrations come when people actually do not ask for input from BSs and still get them anyway-and the reason given is "because it's a public forum". Perhaps they were lead here in the mistaken belief that if they post on the OW/OM forum for support, that is what they will get and not a free for all.

 

of course, as you very well know, many have also come brokenhearted and lost and needing help from anybody....

[Gamine]

Jennie, I think 2sure and Gamine are reformed OWs and now BSs.

 

I know you mean well, but I really don't see myself as a reformed OW. There's a spin on that which doesn't jibe. I'm not a reformed anything. And as strange as this may sound I don't see myself as a BS. I'm a woman who has had varied experiences throughout my life... So, let's just look at me that way.

[OWoman]

Jennie, I think 2sure and Gamine are reformed OWs and now BSs.

 

... and WWIU is not a BS (AFAIK....)

[tami-chan]

I can only speak for myself, but as I said, I'm not here to support them. At least, not the ones who's actions are as hard faced as their personas. There are others however, who are as willing to see and understand the BS point of view as many BS wish to see theirs; and that demonstrates to me that they have a depth that is worth inquiring of even if I wouldn't be so arrogant to think I could help them in any way.

 

Because it has all the gory fascination of a car crash.Because it makes me feel good knowing I've never been an OW, because it makes me feel good seeing what my ex's OW went through and what sort of people they are.Because I understand the feeling of not being worth very much.

 

I do not know how long ago your D-day was or if you have re-married and found love again....but this is really disturbing that you have not REALLY moved on....You have to heal yourself...you cannot heal yourself drawing "good feelings" from other people's misery. How superior was this OW to you that she still has so much impact on your life? Let it go...draw joy from within, it is possible.

[Owl]

and I am sure many are grateful for sharing your knowledge and wisdom with them, Owl. But I think the frustrations come when people actually do not ask for input from BSs and still get them anyway-and the reason given is "because it's a public forum". Perhaps they were lead here in the mistaken belief that if they post on the OW/OM forum for support, that is what they will get and not a free for all.

 

of course, as you very well know, many have also come brokenhearted and lost and needing help from anybody....

 

Thanks for that Tami...I just try to help where I can.

 

I believe that the vast majority of posters who come to the OW/OM forum looking for support get it.

 

I just don't know that the support that they got was the support they expected...and that raises the question over which was "wrong"...the support that they got or the expectations they arrived with?

[fooled once]

Fooled once, excuse me for asking, but I find it curious that you joined Loveshack in April 2009 when your own EMR lies more than a decade back in time. What prompted you to join this long after?

 

I am not sure what your fascination with me is Jennie; but before jj33 starts again about the 'fighting' between you and I; I really don't think I need to answer your question or justify my actions to you in any way. Please put me on ignore since you have issues with pretty much ever single post I make

[tami-chan]

You can't just demand that nobody respond except the people you want which, from reading the above, probably translates to people who will just tell you what you want to hear, and what good is that? Yes men help no one.

 

No, I am not demanding anything. I am just trying to explain where other poster's frustration might be coming from ( I think I said that, no?). Yes, it probably means they want to hear from people who are going through the same or who have gone through the same. What good is that? Who knows? If they came her for a specific reason and get what they came here for, they can do whatever they want with what they got. You see, sometimes people come here not to hear what is right or wrong. Many know what is. They come here for other specific reasons, yet, some respond to tell them they are wrong, or evil or etc.

 

Again, same example from before, if an OW comes to this board and asks help on how to keep her MM, unless the BS has some good pointers to dole out, why would the BS respond? To tell the OP she is wrong for being in a relationship with the MM? But that's not what she came here for. Maybe as the thread progresses she will open herself up and then ask more questions, but until then.....