BSs: Why are you posting on an OM/OW forum?

[jennie-jennie]

Because it has all the gory fascination of a car crash.

 

Because it makes me feel good knowing I've never been an OW, because it makes me feel good seeing what my ex's OW went through and what sort of people they are.

 

Because I understand the feeling of not being worth very much.

 

Thank you for illustrating my point.

[jasminetea]

You're welcome. I don't actually disagree with your sentiment at all.

 

The difference lies in that I feel the BS have every right to be here, can benefit enormously from participating and so can the OW from the BS presence.

[jennie-jennie]

You're welcome. I don't actually disagree with your sentiment at all.

 

The difference lies in that I feel the BS have every right to be here, can benefit enormously from participating and so can the OW from the BS presence.

 

I agree that the BS have every right to be here and that they can benefit enormously from participating. However, I question to what degree the OW benefit from the BS presence, especially since it causes so many OW to leave and never come back.

[jasminetea]

Just because a person leaves a board doesn't mean they haven't benefitted in any way. And just because the effect of being here could have included making them feel bad about themselves as an OW doesn't mean its of no benefit to them.

[jennie-jennie]

Just because a person leaves a board doesn't mean they haven't benefitted in any way. And just because the effect of being here could have included making them feel bad about themselves as an OW doesn't mean its of no benefit to them.

 

Most likely they are still in great pain whether leaving the EMR or not, so the fact that so many do not return is a weakness of the board in my opinon.

 

I agree that the board's aim is not to make OPs feel good about themselves, it is however not to make them feel bad about themselves either, but to support them and help them sort out where they are at and what options they have.

[jasminetea]

I disagree with your sentiment in this case. Also, I'm not sure, personally, what the aim of this board actually is....

[SidLyon]

...

Or is it because you believe affairs are morally wrong and hope by your participation on the forum some will stop?

 

Or because you still have a need to vent and work through your own experiences of being a BS?...

 

 

It seems to me like the majority of the posters on the OW/OM board are indeed BSs. Depending on their motivation of being here it gives a certain slant to the board.

 

 

.

 

...I question to what degree the OW benefit from the BS presence, especially since it causes so many OW to leave and never come back....

 

Jennie,

 

I tried to answer your question honestly but it did make it difficult that some of your question presupposed the answer within. For example you said is it because you disagree with affairs and want to discourage people from having them and do you want to vent and come to an understanding of your own situation as a BW (I'm paraphrasing).

 

Your question was addressed specifically to BSs and when they replied you concluded that most on the board are BSs. Well of course most that replied to you were BSs because that is who you asked. You then came to the conclusion that many OW leave because of the BSs.

 

I would like to know how you came to these last 2 conclusions as to me it doesn't look right. Unless you've done an accurate survey of all posts over a period of time as well as asking people why they leave I just can't see how you could have come to the conclusions you did.

 

Addressing a post to BSs and concluding from their responses that most of the forum are BSs and that the reason few OWs replied was because they had been driven away by the BSs is very poor reasoning.

 

S

[jennie-jennie]

I disagree with your sentiment in this case. Also, I'm not sure, personally, what the aim of this board actually is....

 

"Support and discussion for those who find themselves involved with a committed partner" - present tense. A very well written purpose statement, since "find themselves" is most likely the case.

[jasminetea]

I don't see any specification of what form that support should take.

 

'Find themselves' - is a very gentle description and I feel, misleading. Being brutally honest wouldn't win many takers after all. People don't 'find themselves' anywhere - they don't wake up one morning and discover they've been having sex with a married man for nmonths/years without knowing about it.

[jennie-jennie]

Jennie,

 

I tried to answer your question honestly but it did make it difficult that some of your question presupposed the answer within. For example you said is it because you disagree with affairs and want to discourage people from having them and do you want to vent and come to an understanding of your own situation as a BW (I'm paraphrasing).

 

Your question was addressed specifically to BSs and when they replied you concluded that most on the board are BSs. Well of course most that replied to you were BSs because that is who you asked. You then came to the conclusion that many OW leave because of the BSs.

 

I would like to know how you came to these last 2 conclusions as to me it doesn't look right. Unless you've done an accurate survey of all posts over a period of time as well as asking people why they leave I just can't see how you could have come to the conclusions you did.

 

Addressing a post to BSs and concluding from their responses that most of the forum are BSs and that the reason few OWs replied was because they had been driven away by the BSs is very poor reasoning.

 

S

 

You are not being serious, right? Of course I did not draw these conclusions from this thread, and of course I have not done a survey either. So my conclusions are my own very unscientific ones, and they might very well be incorrect, but they are based on my observations from reading Loveshack for the last half year.

 

I invited everyone to state their own motivations. I was just giving a few examples to start with.

[SidLyon]

"Support and discussion for those who find themselves involved with a committed partner" - present tense. A very well written purpose statement, since "find themselves" is most likely the case.

 

I have always assumed that support and discussion are 2 separate things - in other words one doesn't need to support in order to discuss. The mods have never interpreted it otherwise as far as I can see. Whenever threads are closed it is usually because of rudeness and I've never seen people kicked off because they are not OWs or OMs.

 

As to support that is different. In cases where somebody is addicted to drugs or a destructive pattern of behaviour such as gambling or whatever then encouraging NC is the almost universal way of "supporting" - even if it's by gradual withdrawal. When somebody whether s/he be a BS or an OP comes onto either this or the Infidelity board literally tearing themselves apart because of a MP's inability to commit one way or the other then encouraging NC is the way to go. If a MP will not choose and both the BS and the AP want to be with them exclusively then the relationship is clearly toxic for the poor OP/BS.

 

An AP who is willing to remain an AP forever and accepting of the fact the MP has a spouse is complicated. If the wife/husband is aware of their spouse's AP then I can't really have any adverse opinion about it. But if the 2 affair partners are complicit in the systematic deception and betrayal of some poor woman such as myself and when they virtually gloat over it (I can only think of a couple of OWs who have done this) then this makes me very uncomfortable and I will probably not respond any more because it's too upsetting for me. That won't stop me reading and learning though.

 

There are also the OW who want to persist in the view that their MM stays with his wife after d-day because of some sort of tendency to martyrdom or because of the kids or finances or similar. I don't expect I'll argue with them individually any more, firstly because, well frankly it could just be right but also because nobody in that situation would want to be convinced otherwise. It just seems to me that the sort of MM that goes outside his marriage in the first place is highly unlikely to be the martyring kind and far more likely to be someone with an overinflated sense of entitlement.

 

S

[SidLyon]

You are not being serious, right? Of course I did not draw these conclusions from this thread, and of course I have not done a survey either. So my conclusions are my own very unscientific ones, and they might very well be incorrect, but they are based on my observations from reading Loveshack for the last half year.

 

I invited everyone to state their own motivations. I was just giving a few examples to start with.

 

Well I did say I tried to answer honestly so yes I was being serious - I assumed you wanted serious answers.

 

My observations are just as unscientific as yours but I have concluded differently. My conclusions might also be incorrect which was why I haven't posted them before.

 

S

[jennie-jennie]

I don't see any specification of what form that support should take.

 

'Find themselves' - is a very gentle description and I feel, misleading. Being brutally honest wouldn't win many takers after all. People don't 'find themselves' anywhere - they don't wake up one morning and discover they've been having sex with a married man for nmonths/years without knowing about it.

 

Looking in retrospect I was likely naive, but the truth is that seeing the extent of the emotions my MM had for me, I was positive he would divorce his wife for me, and that soon. So I never expected to find myself in the role of the other woman. I did not at all understand that for men duty might weigh heavier than love. I have had to learn this the hard way. So to me, "find themselves involved with a committed partner" is a very accurate description.

 

And just to let you know, we did not have sex until 10 months into our EA, when our emotions had been long since established for each other. There literally was no way turning back for either of us, our emotions were too strong.

[jennie-jennie]

Well I did say I tried to answer honestly so yes I was being serious - I assumed you wanted serious answers.

 

My observations are just as unscientific as yours but I have concluded differently. My conclusions might also be incorrect which was why I haven't posted them before.

 

S

 

I am not sure if you are not getting it or if you are just fooling around with me. What I meant is that of course I do not draw any conclusions from this thread which is directed to BSs of what proportion they make of the entire posting population on the OW/OM forum or why OP might decide to leave the board. I must assume you are kidding me, nobody could believe I was drawing that kind of conclusions from this thread.

 

Sidlyon: "Addressing a post to BSs and concluding from their responses that most of the forum are BSs and that the reason few OWs replied was because they had been driven away by the BSs is very poor reasoning."

 

I appreciate your honest answer to my original question which I commented on initially.

[jasminetea]

Looking in retrospect I was likely naive, but the truth is that seeing the extent of the emotions my MM had for me, I was positive he would divorce his wife for me, and that soon. So I never expected to find myself in the role of the other woman. I did not at all understand that for men duty might weigh heavier than love. I have had to learn this the hard way. So to me, "find themselves involved with a committed partner" is a very accurate description.

But it was still a choice you made and something you were fully conscious of doing.

 

Some women who become attracted to a married man make the decision to back off and put the lid on the relationship before it becomes inappropriate. You made a different decision.

 

And just to let you know, we did not have sex until 10 months into our EA, when our emotions had been long since established for each other. There literally was no way turning back for either of us, our emotions were too strong.

Well, in some ways it makes it worse. You'd known him for 10 months and had 'long established emotions' but he still hadn't left his wife. And even though you knew that that was the case and he wasn't single, you still slept with him.

[jwi71]

It seems to me like the majority of the posters on the OW/OM board are indeed BSs. Depending on their motivation of being here it gives a certain slant to the board.

 

I would disagree with that. I think its closer to 50-50 with perhaps a slight lean to former or current OW/OM. My opinion of course...

 

If the consensus is NC, then this will of course show in the postings. If the consensus is being intolerate to acceptance of an OW's decision to stay with the MM then that will show. If the consensus is being intolerate to an unapologetic other woman, that will show. That is no different than if that was the consensus of a board made up entirely of OW and OM.It might however be confusing to OW/OM who initially do not understand that it is mostly BSs posting here.

 

This confused me. You seem to say that both BS an OP reach a consensus - whatever it may be. And it might confuse an OP because it comes from mostly BS - whose consensus might be the same as if the board was strictly OP. I'm sorry...would you clarify that...anyone...or is most of my brain asleep?

 

And I am certain there are more BSs than OPs who cannot accept EMRs ever.

 

You assume to much...met plenty of OP here who, after enduring the A, would NEVER do so again. And they are quite vocal about it. I think your prejudice is beginning to shine through. And thats ok. We all have them.

 

Think about it, how many OW/OM come here, open up, tell their story and never return, because they are met with hostility since they are not prepared to leave their MM, at least not yet. I would say most OP come and go, quickly. That can not be the intention of the board, that BS stay, but OP go. If you are not prepared to leave the MP, you still need support and being continually told NC as the only support available, is of no help to you.

 

Again...more assumption and presumption. A BS simply doesn't have that much power over a poster...nor does an OP. What I find happens is a poster is seeking VALIDATION not answers, support or help. They want approval and when they don't find it - they flee and cite BS haters. Reality - in their story, from the outside, its sometimes apparent her MM is lying, or treating her like crap or she is being abused or taken advantage of. To this boards credit, not its detriment, posters TRY to point it out. Is this what an OP wants to hear? Hell no. Is it support?...very much so in my eyes. But if you wish to think that support is little more than cheer leading, you wont find much of that here.

 

The posters who ARE looking for support - that outside perspective...they stay.

 

If indeed the BSs were here to support the OP where they were at, and gently suggest NC as one of the alternatives, the tone of the board would be different. As it is now, too many BSs are pushing their own agenda and trying to come to peace with their own emotions at the price of support for the OPs.

 

Ok...we have some common ground. The tone on this board could use help every now and again. Some people have perfectly valid messages and perspectives - delivered in the worst possible way. Cringe-worthy at times.

 

However...you do realize that YOU are pushing YOUR agenda as well. And there is nothing wrong with having an agenda - we all have one. I've given mine...what's yours? Further more...why ask for agendas (motivation in your original post) from only BS? Why not OPs as well? Why the omission?

 

And THAT was my point to you...why ask perfectly valid questions - applicable to either side of this "aisle" - to only one side?

 

It sounds like you have issues with BS.

 

And, yes, for the record, I'm a BS...

[SidLyon]

I am not sure if you are not getting it or if you are just fooling around with me.

 

I understood the first time you explained it that you did not draw your conclusions from just this thread - I just happen to have come to a different conclusion to you but I can't prove my conclusion either.

 

What I meant is that of course I do not draw any conclusions from this thread which is directed to BSs of what proportion they make of the entire posting population on the OW/OM forum or why OP might decide to leave the board. I must assume you are kidding me, nobody could believe I was drawing that kind of conclusions from this thread.

[jennie-jennie]

"And THAT was my point to you...why ask perfectly valid questions - applicable to either side of this "aisle" - to only one side?"

 

Because it was the motivations of the BS I was wondering about. If you are wondering about the motivations of the OP feel perfectly free to start a new thread.

[jwi71]

Because it was the motivations of the BS I was wondering about. If you are wondering about the motivations of the OP feel perfectly free to start a new thread.

 

I'm asking YOU, not OPs in general and as such starting a new thread to continue this dialogue seems really quite silly.

 

And no, you do not have to reply...you are free to monologue and ignore posters as you see fit.

[jennie-jennie]

I'm asking YOU, not OPs in general and as such starting a new thread to continue this dialogue seems really quite silly.

 

And no, you do not have to reply...you are free to monologue and ignore posters as you see fit.

 

If I am understanding you correctly, you are asking me specifically what my motivations for posting on the OW/OM forum are. Since I am also a member of a purely OP/WS forum, I have been wondering myself why I as of late seem to prefer posting on Loveshack.

 

My overall motivation for posting at all on OW/OM boards is of course because it is not easy being an OW, it is not a position I prefer to have, it is merely a position I am in, and I find it easier to cope with this situation by participating on OW/OM boards.

 

Why Loveshack then?

 

I like discussions, and when there are different views there is likely to be more of a discussion. Discussions force you to look at yourself and try to find your own opinion and view of things.

 

I want to show the OPs on Loveshack that there is more than one way to look at their situation. I hope this will be helpful to them in sorting out what they themselves think.

 

I do believe I bring a different perspective than most regular OPs on this board, since I harbor no plans of leaving at the moment but neither am I claiming to be totally happy with my situation, nor totally unhappy.

 

As I said earlier I also agree with Sidlyon that there are patterns in EMRs, and to acknowledge these patterns is helpful to me. By participating in OW/OM boards you learn to see the patterns.

 

Ironically enough, the kneejerk reactions of most BSs and reformed APs only serve to make me more determined that I am correct in staying with my MM.

[jasminetea]

Ironically enough, the kneejerk reactions of most BSs and reformed APs only serve to make me more determined that I am correct in staying with my MM.

 

Why is that? What is it about 'most' BSs/APs reactions to the OW/you that convince you you are 'correct' in continuing an affair with a MM?

 

Put the way you did, it sounds as though you're doing it out of spite for the BS/AP

[jennie-jennie]

Very unscientific I know, but let's just go back to AR's recent thread and check who responded to it:

 

jennie-jennie - OW and BS

GEL - OW

2sure - not sure which

whichwayisup - BS

Owl - BS

Chrome Barracuda - BS

Mino - OW

Sanafa -OW

jj33 - OW

bentnotbroken - BS

sugarmomma - OW

jasminetea - BS

ladydesigner - OW

Gamine -BS

fooled once - OW

dn121 - OW

tami-chan - OW and BS

 

which makes 8 OW, 6 BS, 2 OW and BS, one unknown.

 

Gotta give it to you, jw171, seems your 50-50 was more correct judging from this thread.

[jennie-jennie]

Why is that? What is it about 'most' BSs/APs reactions to the OW/you that convince you you are 'correct' in continuing an affair with a MM?

 

Put the way you did, it sounds as though you're doing it out of spite for the BS/AP

 

Well, you know, when there is someone outside the unit, a unit gets tighter knitted together.

 

The fact that the attempts to convince the AP are so weak, like "if he really loved you" and "what you are doing is morally wrong", makes it easy for me to disregard them after having looked at my own view and decided that I see these matters completely differently. In fact this strengthens the views I harbor.

 

I have also taken a dislike to the institution of marriage while reading this board. BSs and reformed APs do not present marriage as something one wishes to strive for, quite the opposite. Hearing you all take about commitment and duty makes me understand better what is pulling MM away from me. And it is not love. I have grown to a greater understanding of MM's dilemma of being torn between duty and love.

[jasminetea]

Well, you know, when there is someone outside the unit, a unit gets tighter knitted together.

Nope, not sure about that. And I don't see a knitting together of you and other OW, banding against the BS, not that I've really looked

 

The fact that the attempts to convince the AP are so weak, like "if he really loved you" and "what you are doing is morally wrong", makes it easy for me to disregard them after having looked at my own view and decided that I see these matters completely differently. In fact this strengthens the views I harbor.

Why on earth would it strengthen it? If you had no regard for those things the BS have said to you, it would have no impact at all.

 

I have also taken a dislike to the institution of marriage while reading this board, so why should I respect something I dislike. BS do not present marriage as something one wishes to strive for, quite the opposite. Hearing you all take about commitment and duty makes me understand better what is pulling MM away from me. And it is not love.

For starters, you don't have to be married to be monogamous.

 

Secondly, I'm sure very little you read from the BS here would endear you to marriage. After all they're here because their marriage has been violated by the person they married with a woman much like yourself.

 

Using 'you all' is a little misleading, I for one have never spoken to you about my feelings of commitment within a marriage.

[jennie-jennie]

The unit I referred to was that of MM and I in relation to the outward world.

 

And I totally agree with you, you don't have to be married to be monogamous, so why marry at all? To keep someone with you out of a sense of obligation who has fallen out of love with you? No way I would want that. I'd rather be the OW, which is what I am.