My Husband is friends with a married woman

[zilgurl]

Well he takes off tomorrow morning- flying up there. Ive said Im considering not being here on Sunday wen he gets back as I always get BS after hes been talking with her/them. Our relationship may not have been wonderful for a few months but it certainly was not in the stormy state it is at moment until he began these conversations about me to her. He says it was her who initiated the conversation about me but I dont really know who started what. One thing I noticed in the emails that they both held each other up as wonderful and marvellous and I was spoken of in the following email;

 

Quote-"For all the work...? has done she is still quite incompetent at times and cuts across people or misses the flow. I dont understand this and I have found myself at times in the past feeling frustrated at...? way of communicating etc and it has got me to the place of not feeling that comfortable seeking other relationships if she is involved."

 

Then he goes on to tell her what he enjoys about the way that "you and I talk" because "we both have knowledge of communication and dynamics and we can talk and explore in a way that becomes creative and powerful. Well at least thats how I find our communication. It feels like being in a game of tennis with someone who can hit the ball back - (Im giggling over that analogy where did that come from?) I also think you have an amazing sense of being present to people and of holding the space for presence to emerge. It is a beautiful quality you have and I enjoy it a lot. I still remember that 10 days we had and the conversations we shared. They were a very special 10 days for me." He signs this email "Lots of Love...."

[Thornton]

If he feels he needs counselling, he could get that from a different person, someone impartial. Perhaps you could even attend counselling together. But him talking about your relationship with this woman is unacceptable, and by counselling a "friend" she is being very unprofessional regarding personal involvement.

 

He is clearly having an emotional affair with this woman, which is likely to turn physical if it hasn't already. If I were you I'd insist he does not go to visit this woman or else your relationship is over. If he goes, don't be there on Sunday when he gets back - he clearly values his "friendship" with her more than his marriage with you. If his friendship with her is destroying your marriage, her husband has a right to know - forward their emails and see what he thinks. If your marriage is to survive then I'd insist he cuts all contact with this woman, otherwise you might as well get a divorce now, because it's a very bad sign if he prioritises her over you.

[tami-chan]

Hi Zilgurl....ugh...those emails are a tough thing to read...you are going to have to be proactive about this. Either you tell OW exactly how you feel and also tell her H (share the emails) or just walk away( end the marriage)....or carve your life apart from his....

 

May I ask what is stopping you from telling the OW off?

[TaraMaiden]

Zilgurl - God almighty, woman, does he have to have her legs spread infront of you before you act???

 

I'm sorry to be so graphic, but this is verbally what he's doing. He's mentally f**king her right before your very eyes - and goodness only knows what, away from them.

This is terminal.

This is the biggest signal you could possibly have that you have no marriage, you have no respect, you have no trust, you have no communication, there is no effort and there is no commitment.

 

How hard are you going to have to work to re-gain even a grain of all those essential qualities?

And will he put in the same work?

 

Oh fer chrissakes, hun!!

 

RUN!!

 

DO NOT BE THERE when he gets back!!

 

Go to a lawyer now, and file for divorce - and cite adultery with a third party.

Mention no names, just adultery.

He'd have to prove otherwise, and as no name is mentioned, she could not begin to get involved, because that would imply culpability....

 

Just do it.

And start Life again!!

[zilgurl]

Yes I did that and all I got was an earful about how controlling and manipulative I'm being. I believe my request not to talk about me is inplementing my boundafries but jhe thinks Ive got a wrong idea about boundaries.

[jasminetea]

No he doesn't. He just wants to get his own way and he'll make you the bad guy so he can do just that. For goodness sake, act with some self-respect and have his bags packed and the locks changed for when he gets back.

[LaGazelle]

Thanks for this- Yes Ive already ordered a copy of this book. Yes Im already doing things for me.

Hes buying their car of them and travelling up this weekend to pick it up and celebrate their departure ( I wasn't included). I have asked him to respect me and not mention me or how Im doing etc. He has said via email as hes away at present- and I quote exactly as it was sent to me:

 

"I don’t know at this stage what I will be talking about specifically. It will be about me and my relationship with you. That is what I am working on right now. And it is about me and my stuff. If I mention you it will be in relation to me. Just like one would do in a counselling relationship. Please give me the permission to be able to talk about me and my stuff. I have to be able to talk."

 

What are your thoughts?

 

Zilgurl,

 

no problem at all. Sorry you are going through this. It's great that you are doing things for yourself. Most effective is if you are occasionally busy enjoying yourself when he would normally expect to be able to reach you.

 

sorry maybe I missed some info from the original post. Is she his counsellor or is she a counsellor who happens to be a friend? Either way, that relationship can no longer work as it is. If she is his counsellor, she has crossed a boundary to become a "friend" or private confidant. A business relationship has turned into something that it shouldn't. If she is a counsellor who happens to be a friend, she needs to be a FRIEND OF YOUR MARRIAGE and should speak openly with both of you. In any case, just the fact that she is a female "friend" rather than a "buddy or mate" of his puts her "advice" in cloudy territory. I am sure she wouldn't like it if you sent that sort of email to her husband, offering to "help" him!

 

Besides, if there are issues with the marriage, he is married to YOU, and YOU are the first port of call. If things remain unresolved, a marriage counsellor, general psychologist, or psychotherapist is the next port of call, NOT your friends.

[LaGazelle]

Yes I did that and all I got was an earful about how controlling and manipulative I'm being. I believe my request not to talk about me is inplementing my boundafries but jhe thinks Ive got a wrong idea about boundaries.

 

What, in his views, are appropriate boundaries? You should be "intrigued" by that, because as a couple, there needs to be a compromise so that individual boundaries are to an extent superseded by boundaries that work for you as a united partnership.

[zilgurl]

Hes been working away for the last 2 nights and came home rather sullen. Gave me a kiss and hardly any talk with each other.Watched a movie then he read my last email I sent him last night. (didnt get it last night)-I had been asking him in previous emails not to discuss me when he goes up there tomorrow to pick up a car hes buying of them. He has not agreed to this and tells me Im being manipulative and controlling. I thought that asking not to discuss me was asserting my personal boundaries. He says I have it wrong about boundaries. He going to see a psychologist friend of hers on Sunday to have a talk so I asked him then why he has to talk about me to T (friend)if hes going to have a session with K?? (Psych.)Well he told me he wants to talk to K (Psyc) as she has recently split up from her husband. So I say -Then do you want to get some hints about how to split up? What other message would you have taken from that???? Well he flew at me for that one. Told me Im suspicious and controlling.

Anyway from all acounts it seems Im an idiot ( we've been together 31 years) so maybe its time to cut him loose. I wont be here on Sunday night when he gets home. whilst Im away I'll seek advice about moving out and trying to make it on my own. I only make about $250- 300 a week if Im lucky and he gives me $200 but that will probably stop, Still Im not worried about it. Im OK I happen to have healthy love of myself so I know I will cope.

[zilgurl]

I know its not the healthy thing to do, and probably poor advice, but in you given situation, I would call the friends H and talk about my problems with my H. And I'm telling you, I WOULD. He's not listening because he likes the connection with this woman. He IS in an EA and that's powerful stuff. I'm sorry you have to deal with this, but he will continue to gastlight you and blameshift. You are going to have to stand up for yourself, he's not going to change without a reason to. And her absence will only have him put her on a higher pedastool.

 

Her husband is supportive of my H.

 

OW and her H have a written contract that if one of them wishes to go off with someone else they have to tell the other. They are leaving the ocuntry on Tuesday so thats not an option. I know he will still email her as he wrote that in an email- quote "I will miss you but we still have email."

[zilgurl]

What, in his views, are appropriate boundaries? You should be "intrigued" by that, because as a couple, there needs to be a compromise so that individual boundaries are to an extent superseded by boundaries that work for you as a united partnership.

Look I know that he knows what appropriate boundaries are but if they dont suit him then he "gaslights me. Talking about boundaries is part of each of our work so we are both very knowledgable about what they are. I know its BS. He is now refusing to discuss with me. I said to him I cant make you do anything you dont want to but I too have choices about what I will do to look after me. I get- "Oh well you do that thats what you always do". Actually its not. He becomes really buccky when I put boundaries in place . At first I told him if he didnt cut of all contact with her I would leave. He became quite jumpy about that ( He was working away and we were emailing) he asked me not to do anything until he got home. So I waited and was resolute and then he said that he would move out as he would move to a bigge city to work and I could stay here. The we began talking and got quite close but sonce he got home tonight its b ack to square one .

[zilgurl]

Zilgurl,

 

no problem at all. Sorry you are going through this. It's great that you are doing things for yourself. Most effective is if you are occasionally busy enjoying yourself when he would normally expect to be able to reach you.

 

sorry maybe I missed some info from the original post. Is she his counsellor or is she a counsellor who happens to be a friend? Either way, that relationship can no longer work as it is. If she is his counsellor, she has crossed a boundary to become a "friend" or private confidant. A business relationship has turned into something that it shouldn't. If she is a counsellor who happens to be a friend, she needs to be a FRIEND OF YOUR MARRIAGE and should speak openly with both of you. In any case, just the fact that she is a female "friend" rather than a "buddy or mate" of his puts her "advice" in cloudy territory. I am sure she wouldn't like it if you sent that sort of email to her husband, offering to "help" him!

 

Besides, if there are issues with the marriage, he is married to YOU, and YOU are the first port of call. If things remain unresolved, a marriage counsellor, general psychologist, or psychotherapist is the next port of call, NOT your friends.

 

Shes not my friend apparently- she HIS friend

 

Re your question about their relationship. She works in an educative institution and my husband went to work there. She asked him to stay at her place so he did for 10 days. He soon became her friend. (read my original post) She is trained as a counsellor and Im not sure if shes practising as one but anyway he shared about me with her and when I found out I was upset.He said he shared with her as we were having marital problems and as she was a counsellor he felt it was OK. The friendship was stil there and no professional agreement had been enteredd into.All the time these emails were kept secret from me and I had not given permission so was very upset. I emailed her and told her I was not OK about this but none the less both parties have continued to discuss me among other things. He is flying up to her place to pick up the car hes bought of them. Just asked him to respect my boundaries and not talk about me but refuses to respect me and instead says Im trying to control him. Im fed up with the **** so will give him the ultimatum tomorrow and tell him not to bother coming home.

[zilgurl]

Ps I just want to add that he is going up there tomorrow to pick up the car and also celebrate their departure. I was never invited. He just told me that he was going and that was that.

[LaGazelle]

Look I know that he knows what appropriate boundaries are but if they dont suit him then he "gaslights me. Talking about boundaries is part of each of our work so we are both very knowledgable about what they are. I know its BS. He is now refusing to discuss with me. I said to him I cant make you do anything you dont want to but I too have choices about what I will do to look after me. I get- "Oh well you do that thats what you always do". Actually its not. He becomes really buccky when I put boundaries in place . At first I told him if he didnt cut of all contact with her I would leave. He became quite jumpy about that ( He was working away and we were emailing) he asked me not to do anything until he got home. So I waited and was resolute and then he said that he would move out as he would move to a bigge city to work and I could stay here. The we began talking and got quite close but sonce he got home tonight its b ack to square one .

 

You need to keep talking rather than emailing. I find that emails are not the best comms mode for sensitive subjects - besides as H and W , you should be each others priority, so it shouldn't be a problem to make time to talk , however busy you are. You need to hear each others voices, and it shouldn't be a problem since you should be able to reach him at any time, and vice versa.

 

So, he asked you to wait, and you committed to that even though he refused to commit to not discussing you with people who are not friends of your M. So basically, you have told him, you will meet his needs irrespective of whether or not he holds his end of the "bargain".

 

As you know one needs to handle people who have trouble with boundaries by exemplary action until they get the message that you mean business. At best it is like bringing up child and at worst it is like training a dog. You need to be to an extent like a scratched record. Don't whine, but repeat your requests (preferably as actions) gently but firmly, and when he doesn't cooperate, there must be consequences. You didn't "do anything" because he asked and he now has the impression that you have nothing to do besides waiting.

[LaGazelle]

Ps I just want to add that he is going up there tomorrow to pick up the car and also celebrate their departure. I was never invited. He just told me that he was going and that was that.

 

Just ask him what time he would like you to be ready to collect your car? After 31 yrs of marriage, surely you share all assets.Tell him you want to make sure you're on time. Also ask his opinion on a gift for the couple to celebrate their (not too soon) departure.

[LaGazelle]

Shes not my friend apparently- she HIS friend

 

Re your question about their relationship. She works in an educative institution and my husband went to work there. She asked him to stay at her place so he did for 10 days. He soon became her friend. (read my original post) She is trained as a counsellor and Im not sure if shes practising as one but anyway he shared about me with her and when I found out I was upset.He said he shared with her as we were having marital problems and as she was a counsellor he felt it was OK. The friendship was stil there and no professional agreement had been enteredd into.All the time these emails were kept secret from me and I had not given permission so was very upset. I emailed her and told her I was not OK about this but none the less both parties have continued to discuss me among other things. He is flying up to her place to pick up the car hes bought of them. Just asked him to respect my boundaries and not talk about me but refuses to respect me and instead says Im trying to control him. Im fed up with the **** so will give him the ultimatum tomorrow and tell him not to bother coming home.

 

Ok, this is even worse than I thought. So they have probably slept together. You need to be more assertive and forthright. You are quite right - you are not respected at the moment. You need to decide whether you want to be liked or respected, sometimes you can't have both. Don't bother with threats, more ultimatums (you've already fallen back on those, so they won't be taken seriously) and excessive talking except when you agree to discuss things like adults. Instead, you need to start acting - be more assertive.

[LaGazelle]

Reading this made my stomach lurch. It's SICKENING. He is being a real jerk and what you should do is, have his bags packed and on the front porch so when comes home, he can go stay somewhere else.

 

He is having a full on affair, or here's another thought - Maybe a 3-some with this couple. Either way, the way he is treating you is awful. Stand up to him and take control.

 

What a pr*ck!

 

 

I agree that he needs to b%gger off somewhere else until he comes to his sense, if you want to have anything to do with him. However, I do not agree that you should pack his bags! You are not his bloody personal assistant! You are a grown woman with things to do, you don't have time to do things for him, which he should do for himself. By all means change the locks, however that may cause more trouble than it's worth. Do you have anyone suitable nearby that you could take a break with?

[zilgurl]

Just ask him what time he would like you to be ready to collect your car? After 31 yrs of marriage, surely you share all assets.Tell him you want to make sure you're on time. Also ask his opinion on a gift for the couple to celebrate their (not too soon) departure.

We've always had our own seperate cars. well at least in later life. Hes book a flight to their house.They live 7 hours away. La Gazelle its not going to happen. Im not welcome and Im not involved in anything to do with a going away gift, card or otherwise. Thats the level hes put me at. Im going to ring her as soon as he gets on the plane and I'll maked sure I tell him just before he leaves.He wont respect my request about my personal boundaries so he cant dictate or control who I talk to or not. Im going to make sure I have my day in the sun so to speak.Help me with what would be a useful thing to say without being immature and nasty.

[TaraMaiden]

"Congratulations, as a counsellor you should be really proud of youirself.

you have been entirely instrumental in the destruction of my marriage. you have discussed me, dissected me, criticised me and completely disrespected me. My husband is completely besotted with you, and has effectively excluded me from all discussion. he refuses to accept any point of view I put forward, and it's your fault. he won't talk to me, and claims any attempt I make to reconcile us is controlling and interfering.

I hope you are pleased with yourself, because thanks to your blinkered interference, my husband is no longer my husband."

 

And put the 'phone down.

[freestyle]

I`m not sure what state you live in (or even if you`re in the U.S.) but

 

somewhere recently I heard that some states have a law where you can sue an interloper in your marriage for "Alienation of Affection".

 

Check and see if that applies where you live. I hope you have printed copies of all the email exchanges (in triplicate) and stashed them somewhere safe, perhaps leave a set with a trusted friend or relative.You may need this someday soon. I think it`s time for you to play hardball.

 

As far as contacting the other woman- I`d recommend writing something out beforehand, so you can take time to edit and embellish. Maybe try posting it here, I think there`s several of us who would be glad to help.

 

There`s another book I saw at a bookstore last week, I believe the title was, "Toxic Therapy"- another one you may gain insight from.

 

Be strong, I know it`s hard, but you`re not alone.

[LaGazelle]

We've always had our own seperate cars. well at least in later life. Hes book a flight to their house.They live 7 hours away. La Gazelle its not going to happen. Im not welcome and Im not involved in anything to do with a going away gift, card or otherwise. Thats the level hes put me at. Im going to ring her as soon as he gets on the plane and I'll maked sure I tell him just before he leaves.He wont respect my request about my personal boundaries so he cant dictate or control who I talk to or not. Im going to make sure I have my day in the sun so to speak.Help me with what would be a useful thing to say without being immature and nasty.

 

Ok. Good for you - you are starting to assert yourself by talking with her directly. You are right that he can't control what you do, not least of all because he refuses to respect you. A good next step is to refuse to stay at the level he's put (you) at! He does NOT put you anywhere, unless you sit back and accept it. You are not helpless.

 

Listen, he has no respect for you and whaytyou say, and it sounds like you have unfortunately trained him to behave this way, since you haven't really tried to change it. Talking is good, but acting is better. That means you don't give warnings. At this stage, you just do "shock and awe". I don't mean you behave badly, act with self-respect but get things done,WITHOUT WARNING your opponent. Your warnings are meaningless to him as you have NEVER ACTED on them.

 

If I were you, I would do the following:

 

1. Do not hang around while he gets ready to leave. Leave the house before he does. Don't watch him leave. You are not a waiting servant. He sounds like an narcissist. Don't give him attention for bad behaviour. Y

 

2. You are right to call her. JUST DO IT once you have a clear message you want to give her. That depends on what you want the outcome of this shambles to be. WHAT DO YOU WANT?

3. I agree with Tara that you should NOT BE THERE when he returns. Absolutely not. You are not his waiting servant, and you will not hang around to give him attention for bad behaviour.

 

So, what exactly do YOU WANT the outcome to be?

[zilgurl]

"Congratulations, as a counsellor you should be really proud of youirself.

you have been entirely instrumental in the destruction of my marriage. you have discussed me, dissected me, criticised me and completely disrespected me. My husband is completely besotted with you, and has effectively excluded me from all discussion. he refuses to accept any point of view I put forward, and it's your fault. he won't talk to me, and claims any attempt I make to reconcile us is controlling and interfering.

I hope you are pleased with yourself, because thanks to your blinkered interference, my husband is no longer my husband."

 

Quote Oh Boy Im really tense in the gut now. My heart is racing. I do wish to speak to her but I dont want to get into a slanging match and then hang up. this will only give her more fuel to think Im a crackpot. Id rather come across cool an collected and sound mature about it. I dont wish to come across attacking thats not my style. Im definitely not a woose but Im not an agro freak either. Thanks for you offer. Im still open for other suggestions about what I can say to OW or even improvisation of the above.

[LaGazelle]

We've always had our own seperate cars. well at least in later life. Hes book a flight to their house.They live 7 hours away. La Gazelle its not going to happen. Im not welcome and Im not involved in anything to do with a going away gift, card or otherwise. Thats the level hes put me at. Im going to ring her as soon as he gets on the plane and I'll maked sure I tell him just before he leaves.He wont respect my request about my personal boundaries so he cant dictate or control who I talk to or not. Im going to make sure I have my day in the sun so to speak.Help me with what would be a useful thing to say without being immature and nasty.

 

Ok. Good for you - you are starting to assert yourself by talking with her directly. You are right that he can't control what you do, not least of all because he refuses to respect you. A good next step is to refuse to stay at the level he's put (you) at! He does NOT put you anywhere, unless you sit back and accept it. You are not helpless.

 

Listen, he has no respect for you and whaytyou say, and it sounds like you have unfortunately trained him to behave this way, since you haven't really tried to change it. Talking is good, but acting is better. That means you don't give warnings. At this stage, you just do "shock and awe". I don't mean you behave badly, act with self-respect but get things done,WITHOUT WARNING your opponent. Your warnings are meaningless to him as you have NEVER ACTED on them.

 

If I were you, I would do the following:

 

1. Do not hang around while he gets ready to leave. Leave the house before he does. Don't watch him leave. You are not a waiting servant. He sounds like an narcissist. Don't give him attention for bad behaviour.

 

2. You are right to call her. JUST DO IT once you have a clear message you want to give her. That depends on what you want the outcome of this shambles to be. WHAT DO YOU WANT?

 

3. I agree with Tara that you should NOT BE THERE when he returns. Absolutely not. You are not his waiting servant, and you will not hang around to give him attention for bad behaviour.

 

So, what exactly do YOU WANT the outcome to be? That will influence what you say to her and DO to him.

[LaGazelle]

Oh Boy Im really tense in the gut now. My heart is racing. I do wish to speak to her but I dont want to get into a slanging match and then hang up. this will only give her more fuel to think Im a crackpot. Id rather come across cool an collected and sound mature about it. I dont wish to come across attacking thats not my style. Im definitely not a woose but Im not an agro freak either. Thanks for you offer. Im still open for other suggestions about what I can say to OW or even improvisation of the above.

 

Good. Then stay true to yourself. If you don't find yourself believable, then she certainly won't either, nor will your H, and you could end up just making a fool of yourself and fitting into the labelled boxes they have assigned you ... the incompetent woman who can't communicate effectively.

 

You do NEED to stay calm and collected, so you can be effective. First you need to clear your thoughts, because even though you are angry, the feelings you describe above actually reflect anxiety. As you know, anger and anxiety are very different things. One invokes a willingness to fight, and the other reflects a desperation to take flight. Take your pick, fight or flight and act accordingly.

 

How long will he be there? You don't necessarily need to call her as soon as he leaves, if you need more time to clear your head and formulate a good message that you can deliver calmly, confidently and effectively.

[LaGazelle]

I`m not sure what state you live in (or even if you`re in the U.S.) but

 

somewhere recently I heard that some states have a law where you can sue an interloper in your marriage for "Alienation of Affection".

 

Check and see if that applies where you live. I hope you have printed copies of all the email exchanges (in triplicate) and stashed them somewhere safe, perhaps leave a set with a trusted friend or relative.You may need this someday soon. I think it`s time for you to play hardball.

 

As far as contacting the other woman- I`d recommend writing something out beforehand, so you can take time to edit and embellish. Maybe try posting it here, I think there`s several of us who would be glad to help.

 

There`s another book I saw at a bookstore last week, I believe the title was, "Toxic Therapy"- another one you may gain insight from.

 

Be strong, I know it`s hard, but you`re not alone.

 

Great idea to keep the evidence in case you need it. As well as printed copies, forward them to your private email address, or save them in a suitable format to a USB stick that is kept safe for future reference, just in case.

 

Good luck.